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Now that we have a new thread, in order to ensure that this thread continues to meet TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we will be enforcing the rules in the OP more strictly. Be sure to give them a complete and thorough read before posting! NOTE: When providing a source, please provide a very brief summary on what it's about and what purpose it adds to the discussion. The supporting statement should clearly explain why the subject is relevant and needs to be discussed. Please follow this rule especially for tweets.
Your supporting statement should always come BEFORE you provide the source.If you have any questions, comments, concern, or feedback regarding the USPMT, then please use this thread: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/website-feedback/510156-us-politics-thread |
I think any person or organisation will have conflicts of interrest at some point. I personally don't care if documets powerful people wants to hide come from russian hackers, US-"traitors" or "do-gooder" hackers, but it is disappointing if Wikileaks turns out to be partisan for whatever reason. They have lost a fair amount of credibility already, but as long as the documents are real and useful , I think their function is still important.
Trump should be very happy Obama had to deal with the surveilence leak a few years back! Obama must have known but cunningly avoided becoming the face of the scandal.
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Will say, at least there is some common ground on this. Assurance bonds are absolute nonsense.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
On January 26 2019 23:34 JimmiC wrote:I wanted to say that finally Trump was doing something good with his pressure on Maduro. Then he goes and names an absolute asshat (evil piece of shit from the Bush era who had a hand on all the evil foreign policy in SA) to be the lead on the situation. Hopefully the US doesn't play any roll in what happens next based on this. The good news is the rest of Europe is stepping up. They are telling Maduro if he doesn't hold fair elections within 8 days they will join in supporting the opposition. https://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-47014322
US foreign policy in Venezuela isn't suddenly going to become benevolent because you don't like Maduro.
Imperialist interventions don't become less imperialist because they have some temporary positive effects on a specific group of the locals.
Just look at Iraq. No-one was trying to defend Saddam when they protested against the war, they were protesting against the inevitable screwups and evil intent. Look at how that ended up. This is absolutely no different.
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Is that the Redditus dude?
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On January 26 2019 23:54 m4ini wrote:
Is that the Redditus dude?
Nah, reditussum is still around. Just stopped posting as regularly.
On January 26 2019 23:59 JimmiC wrote:
People really need to stop acting like it is a fact that Guaido is some rightwing plant from the US and Brazil and this is a military uprising. Could that end up happening or being the truth? Sure it could be.
But as of now the facts are he and his party support LGBT, call themselves left of center with Socialist leanings. Are calling for the return of the constitution (that Chavez actually brought in!), return of the courts, and free elections. This is also what Canada, UK, almost all of south america and now the EU are calling for.
Lets stop putting the cart before the horse. Stop treating assumptions like fact this is very very different from 2002.
well, he did openly call on the military to oust Maduro. It might be a failed military uprising but it sure sounds like he was going for one.
Europe are calling for elections within 8 days, which is a ludicrous time frame if you want fairness.
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On January 27 2019 02:15 iamthedave wrote:
Europe are calling for elections within 8 days, which is a ludicrous time frame if you want fairness.
In fact so ludicrous that you should have stopped and thought to yourself "wait this cannot possibly be true, I should check the news very carefully one more time before posting about it."
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Thank you mods for eliminating ban dodgers!
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On January 27 2019 02:15 iamthedave wrote:Nah, reditussum is still around. Just stopped posting as regularly. Show nested quote +On January 26 2019 23:59 JimmiC wrote:
People really need to stop acting like it is a fact that Guaido is some rightwing plant from the US and Brazil and this is a military uprising. Could that end up happening or being the truth? Sure it could be.
But as of now the facts are he and his party support LGBT, call themselves left of center with Socialist leanings. Are calling for the return of the constitution (that Chavez actually brought in!), return of the courts, and free elections. This is also what Canada, UK, almost all of south america and now the EU are calling for.
Lets stop putting the cart before the horse. Stop treating assumptions like fact this is very very different from 2002. well, he did openly call on the military to oust Maduro. It might be a failed military uprising but it sure sounds like he was going for one. Europe are calling for elections within 8 days, which is a ludicrous time frame if you want fairness.
They want the elections to be announced in 8 days not held within 8 days.
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On January 26 2019 23:59 JimmiC wrote:
People really need to stop acting like it is a fact that Guaido is some rightwing plant from the US and Brazil and this is a military uprising. Could that end up happening or being the truth? Sure it could be.
But as of now the facts are he and his party support LGBT, call themselves left of center with Socialist leanings. Are calling for the return of the constitution (that Chavez actually brought in!), return of the courts, and free elections. This is also what Canada, UK, almost all of south america and now the EU are calling for.
Lets stop putting the cart before the horse. Stop treating assumptions like fact this is very very different from 2002.
This gets into two age-old political debates over how accurate and useful the left-right political spectrum is and whether calling yourself something actually makes you that thing regardless of what your actual policies are.
Read the Venezuelan National Assembly's demands, specifically Articulo 21 on the question of economic policy, and ask yourself how "left of center" or "socialist leaning" those paragraphs sound.
http://puntodecorte.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/10E-T-Ley-Marco-del-Estatuto-08-01-19.pdf
Key paragraphs:
+ Show Spoiler +Artículo 21.
1. Para responder al colapso fiscal y de divisas, se adoptarán las medidas que permitan promover una rápida recuperación económica mediante la asistencia financiera internacional extraordinaria de organismos multilaterales, préstamos bilaterales, donaciones internacionales, reestructuración de sus compromisos de deuda externa y un aumento significativo de su producción petrolera. A tales fines, se restablecerán los principios constitucionales que rigen el ejercicio de las políticas fiscales, cambiarias y monetarias, como condición necesaria para abatir la hiperinflación.
2. Para empoderar a la sociedad civil a los fines de satisfacer sus propias necesidades, se abolirán los controles centralizados y medidas arbitrarias de expropiación y otras medidas similares, incluyendo el control de cambio. A estos fines, se sustituirá el modelo centralizado de controles de la economía por un modelo de libertad y de mercado basado en el derecho de cada venezolano a trabajar bajo las garantías de los derechos de propiedad y libertad de empresa.
4. La Asamblea Nacional dictará las medidas que rescaten la capacidad de la Administración Pública para promover el desarrollo económico inclusivo basado en la autonomía de la sociedad civil para satisfacer sus propias necesidades. Las empresas públicas serán sometidas a un proceso de restructuración que asegure su gestión eficiente y transparente, incluso, mediante acuerdos público-privados.
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United Kingdom10026 Posts
On January 27 2019 03:39 Lazare1969 wrote:Show nested quote +On January 26 2019 23:59 JimmiC wrote:
People really need to stop acting like it is a fact that Guaido is some rightwing plant from the US and Brazil and this is a military uprising. Could that end up happening or being the truth? Sure it could be.
But as of now the facts are he and his party support LGBT, call themselves left of center with Socialist leanings. Are calling for the return of the constitution (that Chavez actually brought in!), return of the courts, and free elections. This is also what Canada, UK, almost all of south america and now the EU are calling for.
Lets stop putting the cart before the horse. Stop treating assumptions like fact this is very very different from 2002. This gets into two age-old political debates over how accurate and useful the left-right political spectrum is and whether calling yourself something actually makes you that thing regardless of what your actual policies are. Read the Venezuelan National Assembly's demands, specifically Articulo 21 on the question of economic policy, and ask yourself how "left of center" or "socialist leaning" those paragraphs sound. http://puntodecorte.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/01/10E-T-Ley-Marco-del-Estatuto-08-01-19.pdf
You might have to help out with that one.
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Article behind paywall. I wonder why we ever even fought the Taliban when we're so buddy buddy with Saudi Arabia. I'm worried that Israel and John Bolton will have their way and we go and attack Iran.
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On January 27 2019 03:30 RvB wrote:Show nested quote +On January 27 2019 02:15 iamthedave wrote:On January 26 2019 23:54 m4ini wrote:
Is that the Redditus dude? Nah, reditussum is still around. Just stopped posting as regularly. On January 26 2019 23:59 JimmiC wrote:
People really need to stop acting like it is a fact that Guaido is some rightwing plant from the US and Brazil and this is a military uprising. Could that end up happening or being the truth? Sure it could be.
But as of now the facts are he and his party support LGBT, call themselves left of center with Socialist leanings. Are calling for the return of the constitution (that Chavez actually brought in!), return of the courts, and free elections. This is also what Canada, UK, almost all of south america and now the EU are calling for.
Lets stop putting the cart before the horse. Stop treating assumptions like fact this is very very different from 2002. well, he did openly call on the military to oust Maduro. It might be a failed military uprising but it sure sounds like he was going for one. Europe are calling for elections within 8 days, which is a ludicrous time frame if you want fairness. They want the elections to be announced in 8 days not held within 8 days.
Ah, okay that's my bad. I did misread that as held in 8 days. I therefore retract that due to wrongness.
There was still an attempt at a military uprising, though. I'm not sure if this is a situation that anyone ought to be poking with sticks. It's feeling a bit maybe civil war-ish. And that'll get messy in a hurry.
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EPT
