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Terraforming Mars - Page 2

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Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28654 Posts
March 15 2007 20:33 GMT
#21
mars doesnt have crazy extreme temperatures as far as I know.. it's cold though, but not cold cold cold

and I always think of the mars university episode where the professor is like "in your age mars was just a dreary uninhabitable wasteland, much like utah. but unlike utah, it was eventually made liveable"

:D
Moderator
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-03-15 23:00:10
March 15 2007 20:47 GMT
#22
On March 15 2007 23:19 Bill307 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2007 22:15 zdd wrote:
With the recent announcements of water being discovered on Mars, people began to question whether it could easily be converted into a suitable human habitat. Now, according to MARSIS, the south pole of the planet Mars contains an enormous amount of ice, enough to engulf the whole planet in 10 meters of water. If we could focus a laser beam or some controlled explosion on this chunk of ice, terraforming Mars would be an much simpler process.


"A much simpler process"? If you want to talk about terraforming Mars, you should start by figuring out how we're going to give it a proper, denser atmosphere and a warmer surface temperature. Then the ice would melt on its own, anyway (and stay melted, for that matter).

Then we'd have to find a way to stop all life from getting irradiated to death by the solar wind, since Mars isn't protected by a magnetic field like the Earth is.

I guess it's nice to know for sure that there's water there already so that we don't need to import it ourselves. But we still have a lot to figure out.
Afaik, there's nothing wrong with geomagnetism on Mars. But the thing that protects us is not geomagnetism, it's the ionosphere and the ozone layer, but they are regulated by different mechanisms. Have lightning storms on Mars and you will have ozone. Have water masses in the atmoshpere and you will have lightning storms.

Most people, however, don't realize that a laser is the most cost-ineffective and undesired thing after wooden sticks when you want to warm up something. And ffs a laser that could melt 1231231 cubic meters of ice would probably be powered by a nuclear explosion anyway, provided you can find an active medium that can stand such power.

EDIT: I've just checked, Mars indeed has lower geomagnetism than Earth and is thus devoid of magnetosphere. This has an effect on its environment and is the reason for thinning of its atmoshpere. Ultraviolet radiation is still being absorbed by ozone though and radio frequencies by ionosphere. Magnetoshpere deals with particles not photons (that are, as em-field bosons, not affected by magnetic field directly) but those can be as dangerous as photons to life.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
pyrogenetix
Profile Blog Joined March 2006
China5094 Posts
March 15 2007 20:50 GMT
#23
you guys are all wrong. someone contact darth vader and borrow the death star and all problems will be solved.
Yea that looks just like Kang Min... amazing game sense... and uses mind games well, but has the micro of a washed up progamer.
EmS.Radagast
Profile Joined November 2004
Israel280 Posts
March 15 2007 21:45 GMT
#24
I think "lasers" is supposed to mean "masers" (in other words, the machine inside a microwave oven). And how is that energy inefficient? Last time I checked, microwave ovens were quite economical at heating stuff. Though since most methods of generating electricity involve something heating water in a boiler, we better use that heat directly rather than produce electricity and spend it on heating, which is ought to lose some energy along the way.

but none of these methods really work, because even if you use nukes for heating (barring atmospheric effects), the increase in temperature will be only temporary. planets dissipate heat very rapidly; consider how much cooler it is on earth at night to see how fast the heat dissipation works. To make a permenant change you have to use a constant source of energy for heating. The sun, for instance.

Therefore the only plausable approach, IMO, increase the amount of greenhouse gases on mars (using engineered life forms or nanotechnology), in a controlled manner, until average temperature reaches something reasonable, then somehow work towards making the atmosphere breathable without lowering the temperature too much. I'm not sure any of this is even possible with our current technology. It should probably be feasible to start it with 22nd century tech


There's also a problem with the atmosphere of mars, because it has smaller mass, and thus gravitational pull, its atmosphere is thinner than earth's. It isn't going to be as effective at blocking radiation as the earth's atmosphere.
I know its not THREE-DEE!!
MaxdigsSoda
Profile Joined March 2007
Sweden304 Posts
March 15 2007 21:54 GMT
#25
maybe we shall nuke mars
what u wearing babe
ATeddyBear
Profile Blog Joined December 2005
Canada2843 Posts
March 15 2007 22:18 GMT
#26
unleash the giant magnifying glass
Professional twice over - an analyst and a therapist. The world’s first analrapist.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-03-15 22:37:56
March 15 2007 22:24 GMT
#27
On March 16 2007 06:45 EmS.Radagast wrote:
I think "lasers" is supposed to mean "masers" (in other words, the machine inside a microwave oven). And how is that energy inefficient? Last time I checked, microwave ovens were quite economical at heating stuff. Though since most methods of generating electricity involve something heating water in a boiler, we better use that heat directly rather than produce electricity and spend it on heating, which is ought to lose some energy along the way.

but none of these methods really work, because even if you use nukes for heating (barring atmospheric effects), the increase in temperature will be only temporary. planets dissipate heat very rapidly; consider how much cooler it is on earth at night to see how fast the heat dissipation works. To make a permenant change you have to use a constant source of energy for heating. The sun, for instance.

Therefore the only plausable approach, IMO, increase the amount of greenhouse gases on mars (using engineered life forms or nanotechnology), in a controlled manner, until average temperature reaches something reasonable, then somehow work towards making the atmosphere breathable without lowering the temperature too much. I'm not sure any of this is even possible with our current technology. It should probably be feasible to start it with 22nd century tech


There's also a problem with the atmosphere of mars, because it has smaller mass, and thus gravitational pull, its atmosphere is thinner than earth's. It isn't going to be as effective at blocking radiation as the earth's atmosphere.
1 question, k? Does the word "coherent" mean anything to you?
This doesn't even mean anything, because ice doesn't absorb microwave energy nearly as effectively as water in liquid state.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
.kaz
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
1963 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-03-15 22:44:26
March 15 2007 22:40 GMT
#28
On March 15 2007 22:26 MannerGent wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2007 22:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Optimus Prime wont like this.

Not one bit.

What a loser {88}iNcontroL is. What conversational skills he has.

Imagine you are at a party having a good time watching something fun, then some fat guy who wasn't invited wedges in behind everyone and says, in what is most likely a very pretentious voice, "Optimus Prime wont like this." Everyone would look at him and then at each other, then shrug and pretend like they didn't hear.



What a geek you are. What social skills you have.

Imagine you are on teamliquid.net, and you see a thread about mars, so you click it and OMG, some nubcake just put some random witty comment about Optimus. OMFG NO HE DIDNT NOT ON MY INTERWEBZ. So this said geek starts a flamewar and contributes his dumb opinion to the thread only causing more spam and shit we don't care about. gG sir.
+ Show Spoiler +
yes i know im a hyprocrite
Pressure - "rock is the defender of justice" 이병민 / 박영민 Hwaiting~
Freyr
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
United States500 Posts
March 15 2007 22:44 GMT
#29
On March 16 2007 05:33 Liquid`Drone wrote:
mars doesnt have crazy extreme temperatures as far as I know.. it's cold though, but not cold cold cold

and I always think of the mars university episode where the professor is like "in your age mars was just a dreary uninhabitable wasteland, much like utah. but unlike utah, it was eventually made liveable"

:D


It may not be cold cold cold by universe standards but it is certainly cold cold cold by earth standards :p

At any rate, the mean surface temperature is well below water's freezing point.
Haemonculus
Profile Blog Joined November 2004
United States6980 Posts
March 15 2007 22:48 GMT
#30
Is Mars large enough (gravity and such) to actually hold an atmosphere? I thought I heard somewhere that it was impossible or something, and that any air created would sorta fly away.

I also heard about plans to send bacteria of sorts to go teraforming and such.
I admire your commitment to being *very* oily
Equinox_kr
Profile Blog Joined December 2006
United States7395 Posts
March 15 2007 22:56 GMT
#31
On March 15 2007 23:14 rpf wrote:
I'm pretty sure we'd need the giant laser before we could even try to colonize Mars.


I'm pretty sure the guy who made the laser would kill everybody on earth first -_-
^-^
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
March 15 2007 23:03 GMT
#32
On March 16 2007 07:48 Haemonculus wrote:
Is Mars large enough (gravity and such) to actually hold an atmosphere? I thought I heard somewhere that it was impossible or something, and that any air created would sorta fly away.

I also heard about plans to send bacteria of sorts to go teraforming and such.
Mars is roughly 10 times lighter than Earth and doesn't hold atmosphere as well, that's true.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
LuMiX
Profile Blog Joined October 2006
China5757 Posts
March 15 2007 23:07 GMT
#33
On March 16 2007 07:40 .kaz wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2007 22:26 MannerGent wrote:
On March 15 2007 22:17 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Optimus Prime wont like this.

Not one bit.

What a loser {88}iNcontroL is. What conversational skills he has.

Imagine you are at a party having a good time watching something fun, then some fat guy who wasn't invited wedges in behind everyone and says, in what is most likely a very pretentious voice, "Optimus Prime wont like this." Everyone would look at him and then at each other, then shrug and pretend like they didn't hear.



What a geek you are. What social skills you have.

Imagine you are on teamliquid.net, and you see a thread about mars, so you click it and OMG, some nubcake just put some random witty comment about Optimus. OMFG NO HE DIDNT NOT ON MY INTERWEBZ. So this said geek starts a flamewar and contributes his dumb opinion to the thread only causing more spam and shit we don't care about. gG sir.
+ Show Spoiler +
yes i know im a hyprocrite


best part of this was "NO HE DIDNT NOT" ...
Xyoliths
Profile Joined February 2007
Brunei Darussalam52 Posts
March 15 2007 23:17 GMT
#34
I love mars twinkies...habiting a mars twinkie mmm sounds good to me...

twin-keeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Liquid`Jinro
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Sweden33719 Posts
March 15 2007 23:33 GMT
#35
On March 15 2007 23:14 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Dunno how I can not make a "lame" joke when the OP started a thread saying we need to focus a lazer cannon on Mars or nuclear bomb the icecaps. It currently takes us 30 years to get to the damn planet, what makes anyone think we are anywhere near the kind of things you discuss anyways?

I think at some point terraforming might be possible, but for now it certainly is not. Posing the question "should we lazer cannon or nuke the ice" wont get a thread anywhere imo. I could be wrong but I would think it to be more realistic that we first develop a way of getting there adequately. Best to "cross that bridge" when we get to it kinda thing.

Hum, it would take us like 6 months to get there I think? I forget.

Currently reading "The Case for Mars" (thanks to, I think, HnR)HT for suggesting it in some thread ages ago, really interesting book) and yeah, we could definitely go there.
Moderatortell the guy that interplanatar interaction is pivotal to terrans variety of optionitudals in the pre-midgame preperatories as well as the protosstinal deterriggation of elite zergling strikes - Stimey n | Formerly FrozenArbiter
Luhh
Profile Joined October 2003
Sweden2974 Posts
March 15 2007 23:41 GMT
#36
Excellent idea. Now we know what to do with all the nuclear weapons mankind has created. 2 birds with one stone - "Peace in our time"!
I wouldn´t call him stupid, but let´s just say he´s unlucky when thinking...
.kaz
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
1963 Posts
March 15 2007 23:45 GMT
#37
On March 16 2007 08:33 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2007 23:14 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Dunno how I can not make a "lame" joke when the OP started a thread saying we need to focus a lazer cannon on Mars or nuclear bomb the icecaps. It currently takes us 30 years to get to the damn planet, what makes anyone think we are anywhere near the kind of things you discuss anyways?

I think at some point terraforming might be possible, but for now it certainly is not. Posing the question "should we lazer cannon or nuke the ice" wont get a thread anywhere imo. I could be wrong but I would think it to be more realistic that we first develop a way of getting there adequately. Best to "cross that bridge" when we get to it kinda thing.

Hum, it would take us like 6 months to get there I think? I forget.

Currently reading "The Case for Mars" (thanks to, I think, HnR)HT for suggesting it in some thread ages ago, really interesting book) and yeah, we could definitely go there.


Do you read SUPER slow..?
Pressure - "rock is the defender of justice" 이병민 / 박영민 Hwaiting~
KaasZerg
Profile Joined November 2005
Netherlands927 Posts
March 15 2007 23:50 GMT
#38
Our technologylevel is far insufficient to terraform anything. Currently we fail to protect our own from ecosystem from overexploitation.

Terraforming:
1 transporting the necessary equipment to mars on a large scale.
2 Creating a suitable atmosphere
Is the enough Oxigen, Nitrogene, and carbon in the soil and the polar caps to release to support the most basic liveforms to reach a cascade reaction.
Nanotech? Engineered bacteria, fungus etc.
Otherwise it takes a huge amount of energy to harvest these gasses.
3 creating a greenhouse effect so water stays liquid
4 Mars needs an ozonelair to protect the surface from to much UV
5 What about protection from solar flares?
6 are there enough geological formations that allow mining of metals, minerals etc. to set up industies with a minimal dependence on the very expensive supplies from earth.
iNcontroL *
Profile Blog Joined July 2004
USA29055 Posts
March 15 2007 23:51 GMT
#39
On March 16 2007 08:33 FrozenArbiter wrote:
Show nested quote +
On March 15 2007 23:14 {88}iNcontroL wrote:
Dunno how I can not make a "lame" joke when the OP started a thread saying we need to focus a lazer cannon on Mars or nuclear bomb the icecaps. It currently takes us 30 years to get to the damn planet, what makes anyone think we are anywhere near the kind of things you discuss anyways?

I think at some point terraforming might be possible, but for now it certainly is not. Posing the question "should we lazer cannon or nuke the ice" wont get a thread anywhere imo. I could be wrong but I would think it to be more realistic that we first develop a way of getting there adequately. Best to "cross that bridge" when we get to it kinda thing.

Hum, it would take us like 6 months to get there I think? I forget.

Currently reading "The Case for Mars" (thanks to, I think, HnR)HT for suggesting it in some thread ages ago, really interesting book) and yeah, we could definitely go there.


Didnt say we could not go there. You sure its 6 months? I somehow doubt that strongly.
BluzMan
Profile Blog Joined April 2006
Russian Federation4235 Posts
March 16 2007 00:03 GMT
#40
It's below 10 years for sure, dunno exactly if it's 3 years or 6 months like FA suggested.
You want 20 good men, but you need a bad pussy.
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