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Barack Obama vs Hilary - Page 8

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Person514cs
Profile Blog Joined September 2004
1004 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-28 15:57:01
January 28 2007 15:55 GMT
#141
On January 26 2007 14:59 Servolisk wrote:
Since TV is starting to deluge me with Hilary vs Obama, fairly often, I decided to make a thread. I know there is a limit to how far this discussion can go at this, with primaries a year away, but it's never too soon to start.

I really don't know a great deal about either (though that won't stop me from having a very strong, near fanatical opinion).

I like Obama, a lot. I don't know the details of his views on every issue at this point, but the way he speaks is appealing. In my vague memories of his speeches he sounded very intelligent. He doesn't sound like he speaks in a overly prepared cue card reader... he sounds like he does a lot of speaking off the top of his head on things he has thought hard about. And my assumption on this is somewhat confirmed when he is talking to someone live rather than giving a speech. Like this one time he was questioning Secretary Rice in congress, Condi was trying her hardest to dodge the question but Obama would not be derailed and was able to adapt his questions. This sort of thing seems typical of him.

I am excited by the idea of someone from his backround becoming President. (is backround supposed to be two words? the firefox spell check highlighted it) He could communicate to a lot of groups that have been left out, in the US and in the world. Half black, half white, internationally educated in Jakarta, went to Muslim and Catholic schools before going to excel at Harvard.

One thing I think everyone on the forum can appreciate is a very unique stance Obama has taken. A somewhat anti-babyboomer stance. "THE time has come, Senator Barack Obama says, for the baby boomers to get over themselves." Man, that is sweet to hear. '“Thank you, here’s your gold watch, it’s time for the personal style and political framework of the 1960’s to get out of the way,” said Eric Liu, 38, a speechwriter and policy aide in the Clinton White House who now runs a mentoring program in Seattle.'
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder.html

Hilary, on the other hand, I dislike, more and more. First, I'm very turned off by the idea I get, that there has been some plan going on to capitalize on a low point for republicans to get Hilary back in, and that democrats like me are under the obligation to vote for her somehow. I would grudgingly vote for her if she is up against a typical Republican candidate.

What has Hilary done that is so great? She strikes me as a typical politician who just happens to have strong connections. I'm sick to death of talk about the Clinton connection. Like most democrats, thinking of the Clinton days sounds like heaven, compared to now, but that doesn't mean we have to vote for someone from the same family. I didn't like everything about Clinton and I wouldn't even vote for Bill Clinton over Obama if he could run again, at this point.

Hilary gives me the vibe that she takes the democratic, anti-Bush base, for granted.

Irrelevant as it may seem, one of my most vivid memories of Hilary is when she was speaking out against violence in video games. I don't remember the details, but it was apparent that she hadn't really thought through the issue and was just trying to make a concession to distressed mothers.

I'm optimistically hoping for being able to find some common ground with Excalibur_Z about disliking Hilary Excal, I hope you contribute to this thread and confirm my dislike with some dirt you have on her


agreed, Obama seems like actual person to me.
Peace and love, for ever.
j0ehoe
Profile Joined September 2006
United States2705 Posts
January 31 2007 01:36 GMT
#142
wow 8 threads and no real discussion on the differences between the two candidates.

does ANYONE have any FACTS about the two? if youre going to be a biased retard (lib or repub,i dont care, youre a jackass either way. ppl who vote on party lines should be shot.) dont even bother responding.

i was tlaking with my parents the other day about this topic and pretty much realized i know shit about either of them. the only things i know about hilary are: shes against violent video games (btw does anyone have a link to this with the hot coffee thing? my parents dont believe me) i think that sounds too conservative for me, borderline censorship stuff. and i just dont like the fact that no matter what people claim, this lady would be most likely irrelevant if it was for her weed smokin, pimpin husband.

so, does anyone have any legitimate sources where i could get info on their platforms?
Only communists disconnect.
miyavi
Profile Joined September 2006
Canada245 Posts
January 31 2007 01:58 GMT
#143
Obama " WELCOME TO NEW JERSEY, WE DONT PUMP GAS, WE PUMP OUR FUCKING FIST!"
NaDa for president
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
January 31 2007 02:00 GMT
#144
Arnold should be allowed to run. "I'll be back" is too good of a re-election slogan to go to waste.
BuGzlToOnl
Profile Blog Joined November 2006
United States5918 Posts
January 31 2007 02:24 GMT
#145
I don't want to create an entire thread for this, but since I only see it here, I guess I'll ask. Did the Nuke get repaced by the Lock? Nuke > Lock

Sorry for my off-topicness.
If you want to make God laugh, tell Him your plans.
Excalibur_Z
Profile Joined October 2002
United States12237 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-31 03:25:17
January 31 2007 02:52 GMT
#146
On January 26 2007 14:59 Servolisk wrote:
Since TV is starting to deluge me with Hilary vs Obama, fairly often, I decided to make a thread. I know there is a limit to how far this discussion can go at this, with primaries a year away, but it's never too soon to start.

I really don't know a great deal about either (though that won't stop me from having a very strong, near fanatical opinion).

I like Obama, a lot. I don't know the details of his views on every issue at this point, but the way he speaks is appealing. In my vague memories of his speeches he sounded very intelligent. He doesn't sound like he speaks in a overly prepared cue card reader... he sounds like he does a lot of speaking off the top of his head on things he has thought hard about. And my assumption on this is somewhat confirmed when he is talking to someone live rather than giving a speech. Like this one time he was questioning Secretary Rice in congress, Condi was trying her hardest to dodge the question but Obama would not be derailed and was able to adapt his questions. This sort of thing seems typical of him.

I am excited by the idea of someone from his backround becoming President. (is backround supposed to be two words? the firefox spell check highlighted it) He could communicate to a lot of groups that have been left out, in the US and in the world. Half black, half white, internationally educated in Jakarta, went to Muslim and Catholic schools before going to excel at Harvard.

One thing I think everyone on the forum can appreciate is a very unique stance Obama has taken. A somewhat anti-babyboomer stance. "THE time has come, Senator Barack Obama says, for the baby boomers to get over themselves." Man, that is sweet to hear. '“Thank you, here’s your gold watch, it’s time for the personal style and political framework of the 1960’s to get out of the way,” said Eric Liu, 38, a speechwriter and policy aide in the Clinton White House who now runs a mentoring program in Seattle.'
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/01/21/weekinreview/21broder.html

Hilary, on the other hand, I dislike, more and more. First, I'm very turned off by the idea I get, that there has been some plan going on to capitalize on a low point for republicans to get Hilary back in, and that democrats like me are under the obligation to vote for her somehow. I would grudgingly vote for her if she is up against a typical Republican candidate.

What has Hilary done that is so great? She strikes me as a typical politician who just happens to have strong connections. I'm sick to death of talk about the Clinton connection. Like most democrats, thinking of the Clinton days sounds like heaven, compared to now, but that doesn't mean we have to vote for someone from the same family. I didn't like everything about Clinton and I wouldn't even vote for Bill Clinton over Obama if he could run again, at this point.

Hilary gives me the vibe that she takes the democratic, anti-Bush base, for granted.

Irrelevant as it may seem, one of my most vivid memories of Hilary is when she was speaking out against violence in video games. I don't remember the details, but it was apparent that she hadn't really thought through the issue and was just trying to make a concession to distressed mothers.

I'm optimistically hoping for being able to find some common ground with Excalibur_Z about disliking Hilary Excal, I hope you contribute to this thread and confirm my dislike with some dirt you have on her


You should have paged me to this thread because this is the first time I've seen it.

Personally I find all the presidential stuff pretty uninteresting since we still have over a year and a half to go. This is plenty of time for those running to get their hype machines worked up but for most people I'd say it's irrelevant.

That said, we don't know very much about Obama or Hillary. Well, we know more about Hillary than Obama, I should say. Everybody knows Hillary will pander to anyone and everyone, just like Bill. She doesn't seem to have very strong convictions and generally appears to be very wishy-washy while also being a bit condescending. That's the impression I get from her, anyway. She's also a horrible singer (for those people who heard that Star-Spangled Banner clip, it's agonizing) haha.

Obama, on the other hand, nobody really knows anything about. He sort of came out of nowhere with his presidential bid. And, of course, like all presidential hopefuls, everyone in the media is trying to dig up dirt on him but so far it looks like they've been unsuccessful. The worst stories I've heard about him are "he has big ears" (no joke) and "he once did cocaine" (what politician hasn't these days?).

But just like the Mark Foley thing before the election, I think most camps are withholding the most damaging stories about each candidate until just before the primaries, where they can create the biggest media storm possible. Maybe it turns out that Obama beheaded a US Marine with a rusty saw, or that Hillary performed a clitorectomy on Chelsea. We don't really have enough information to make a final judgment on either candidate because they're still pretty reserved about their positions (Hillary much moreso than Obama).

Obama seems to be much more liberal than Hillary, but he seems to also be far more bold and straightforward about his beliefs. That's going to get him a lot more support from the public in my estimation, but like I said, nothing's set in stone until we get all the info.

EDIT: Here's kind of a funny thing Biden said today about Obama. SEN. BIDEN SHOCK INTERVIEW: 'I mean, you got the first mainstream African-American who is articulate and bright and clean and a nice-looking guy'... hahaha. Implying of course that other African-Americans are stupid, unpresentable criminals. I thought that was sort of a strange thing to say.
Moderator
Clutch3
Profile Joined April 2003
United States1344 Posts
January 31 2007 04:12 GMT
#147

Excal, you forgot a comma in the Biden quote (I think). So it's not as bad as you wrote it, but it's still bizarre.
[angst]chraej
Profile Joined January 2006
1445 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-31 04:22:39
January 31 2007 04:20 GMT
#148
does anyone believe the next president of the united states will truely be a woman or a black man?


+im not saying that it would be bad, necessarily, but i am sick of certain groups of people claiming such things would denote "progress", honestly that is the most backwards idea.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
SK.Testie
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
Canada11084 Posts
January 31 2007 04:23 GMT
#149
Neither candidate can win. The south and middle states certainly aren't ready for it yet. Especially now that it's fox viewers have learned that the coloured man went to a muslim school.
Social Justice is a fools errand. May all the adherents at its church be thwarted. Of all the religions I have come across, it is by far the most detestable.
[angst]chraej
Profile Joined January 2006
1445 Posts
January 31 2007 04:26 GMT
#150
On January 31 2007 13:23 MYM.Testie wrote:
Neither candidate can win. The south and middle states certainly aren't ready for it yet. Especially now that it's fox viewers have learned that the coloured man went to a muslim school.


i agree.

but if you think about it, the people do not want someone who is different from them making the decisions which control many aspects of their lives.
An open mind is like a fortress with its gates unbarred and unguarded
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-31 04:34:54
January 31 2007 04:28 GMT
#151
On January 31 2007 13:23 MYM.Testie wrote:
Neither candidate can win. The south and middle states certainly aren't ready for it yet. Especially now that it's fox viewers have learned that the coloured man went to a muslim school.



Currently, both Obama and Hillary are doing just fine in the polls when compared to their republican counterparts. Both lead in good number of them.

http://www.pollingreport.com/wh08gen.htm
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
j0ehoe
Profile Joined September 2006
United States2705 Posts
January 31 2007 04:49 GMT
#152
althought i could care less what what color/race my president is, i sincerely doubt that the rest of the country is ready for either of them or anyone that isnt a white male.

and the polls dont really say much. 1000 people (i only glanced at the first 3) is hardly a good sample size for a country of god knows how many million. plus, im not sure if the source of the poll indicates where they took respones from, but princeton is in nj, a bigtime lib state.
Only communists disconnect.
Mindcrime
Profile Joined July 2004
United States6899 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-31 04:52:52
January 31 2007 04:52 GMT
#153
On January 31 2007 13:49 j0ehoe wrote:
althought i could care less what what color/race my president is, i sincerely doubt that the rest of the country is ready for either of them or anyone that isnt a white male.

and the polls dont really say much. 1000 people (i only glanced at the first 3) is hardly a good sample size for a country of god knows how many million. plus, im not sure if the source of the poll indicates where they took respones from, but princeton is in nj, a bigtime lib state.


Depending on how they chose who to poll, 1000 can be an adequate number.
That wasn't any act of God. That was an act of pure human fuckery.
j0ehoe
Profile Joined September 2006
United States2705 Posts
January 31 2007 04:57 GMT
#154
On January 31 2007 13:52 Mindcrime wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2007 13:49 j0ehoe wrote:
althought i could care less what what color/race my president is, i sincerely doubt that the rest of the country is ready for either of them or anyone that isnt a white male.

and the polls dont really say much. 1000 people (i only glanced at the first 3) is hardly a good sample size for a country of god knows how many million. plus, im not sure if the source of the poll indicates where they took respones from, but princeton is in nj, a bigtime lib state.


Depending on how they chose who to poll, 1000 can be an adequate number.


yea, it would depend on what youre trying to project. from the way you worded it, i thought it was as to the WHOLE nation's opinion. if youre talking about a state or portion of a state, then yea, it could be.
Only communists disconnect.
hasuprotoss
Profile Blog Joined March 2004
United States4612 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-31 05:34:44
January 31 2007 05:32 GMT
#155
Obama's claimed stances are found at:
http://obama.senate.gov/issues/

I'll try and find his actual stances in a little bit, but I highly doubt they will deviate from this trend (but I might be trying to bring a positive trait to light about a politician and I could be way off the mark).

Edit: Just realized it was a more pansy-styled claims. He didn't show any stands on tough issues, nor did he make the only tough issue that I see (Iraq) any different than a standard politician answer. It looks right now that he is just looking for votes (however, I do like him more than Hillary and Condy).
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/index.php?viewdays=0&show_part=5 <--- Articles Section on TL
fusionsdf
Profile Blog Joined June 2006
Canada15390 Posts
January 31 2007 05:50 GMT
#156
On January 31 2007 13:57 j0ehoe wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 31 2007 13:52 Mindcrime wrote:
On January 31 2007 13:49 j0ehoe wrote:
althought i could care less what what color/race my president is, i sincerely doubt that the rest of the country is ready for either of them or anyone that isnt a white male.

and the polls dont really say much. 1000 people (i only glanced at the first 3) is hardly a good sample size for a country of god knows how many million. plus, im not sure if the source of the poll indicates where they took respones from, but princeton is in nj, a bigtime lib state.


Depending on how they chose who to poll, 1000 can be an adequate number.


yea, it would depend on what youre trying to project. from the way you worded it, i thought it was as to the WHOLE nation's opinion. if youre talking about a state or portion of a state, then yea, it could be.


No, you dont understand. If the people doing the surveys are doing it properly, they can accurately measure the thoughts of the entire nation, just from those 1000 people.
SKT_Best: "I actually chose Protoss because it was so hard for me to defeat Protoss as a Terran. When I first started Brood War, my main race was Terran."
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2394 Posts
Last Edited: 2007-01-31 06:37:59
January 31 2007 06:37 GMT
#157
The accuracy of a sample does not depend on the size of the population. If you get an unbiased sample, then 1000 is enough for any country.
nemY
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States3119 Posts
January 31 2007 13:56 GMT
#158
[image loading]
BlackJack
Profile Blog Joined June 2003
United States10574 Posts
January 31 2007 14:33 GMT
#159
such a witty slogan. rolls off the tongue
SuperJongMan
Profile Blog Joined March 2003
Jamaica11586 Posts
January 31 2007 15:00 GMT
#160
hahaha.. I wish it was Bill in 08.
POWER OVERWHELMING ! ! ! KRUU~ KRUU~
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