EPTLike, just embrace it as boring. "I get it- Conservatives are all monsters. All you got is character attacks. We're all bored."
Canadian Politics Mega-thread - Page 74
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Falling
Canada11496 Posts
Like, just embrace it as boring. "I get it- Conservatives are all monsters. All you got is character attacks. We're all bored." | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 22 2019 16:18 Falling wrote: It would be nice if we could have someone that could turn the edge of the nonsensical character attacks. The old 'Conservatives are basically scary monsters, and probably secretly racist' with a little more vim and vigour. Like, just embrace it as boring. "I get it- Conservatives are all monsters. All you got is character attacks. We're all bored." Careful what you wish for! But seriously, Canadians, you couldn’t do better than Trudeau? And how much credit does he get for managing to come back as a (likely) head of a minority government, compared to political campaign mistakes from his rivals? | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
Just disapointed so many Bloc candidates won. They don't bring much to the table  | ||
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Lmui
Canada6223 Posts
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On October 22 2019 16:18 Falling wrote: It would be nice if we could have someone that could turn the edge of the nonsensical character attacks. The old 'Conservatives are basically scary monsters, and probably secretly racist' with a little more vim and vigour. Like, just embrace it as boring. "I get it- Conservatives are all monsters. All you got is character attacks. We're all bored." I still think had the Conservatives chosen someone like Lisa Raitt they probably would have won at least a minority. I don't agree with her views on many issues, but as a person I certainly can't fault her. She seems like a genuinely good person and would have been far easier for centrist folks who supported for the Liberals in 2015 to vote for. She has an authenticity that Scheer completely lacks. Scheer has come off as being a fake to many people ever since he took over as opposition leader, and all of the revelations about him that have come out in the election have only added to this skepticism. Someone like Raitt would have been much harder for the Liberals to paint as a fraud and use the Conservative bogeyman attack against. Raitt did lose her riding but she apparently spent a huge chunk of this election helping other people campaign and assumed she'd be safe. Had she been leader or had been campaigning for herself, I imagine she would have won. If this election has demonstrated anything, it's that the far-right in Canada barely exists (PPC got 1% of votes and Bernier got stomped), and outside of Alberta and Saskatchewan, Canadian politics seems to be shifting slightly leftward. Even the Conservatives ran a slightly more moderate platform than last time, but their leader didn't match up with this. The Conservatives made the mistake of choosing someone likely to appeal to the base in the prairies, but not so much people anywhere else. They needed someone popular in east of the prairies because really, it doesn't matter who they pick, they're going to win in Alberta and Saskatchewan. People like Peter MacKay or Lisa Raitt, people who are well known in Ontario and don't have the baggage of Scheer, would likely do much better. On October 22 2019 23:57 Lmui wrote: Pretty happy overall with the result. Left leaning coalition has worked wonders for BC so hopefully that can happen at the federal level. I'm hoping liberals avoid supporting BQ too much, but the mix of ndp and liberal policy that can happen is ideal for how I think the country should be governed Agreed. On October 22 2019 18:56 Chairman Ray wrote: Rocky Dong got 1053 votes! Maxime Bernier (Rhino Party) also cracked 1000 votes. | ||
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Flaccid
8896 Posts
On October 22 2019 16:11 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Immediately after these incidents were revealed Trudeau lost about 1% in the polls. Once you take into account the margin for error in the polls this conveys zero information ... good or bad. Personally speaking, I have a hard time taking anything Trudeau does seriously because I have a hard time taking him seriously as a person. I find it more useful to look at him as the 'mascot' of the Liberal party moreso than anything else. A pseudo celebrity with name recognition that they can build attention and support around. A bit of a rallying point, if anything. So when he does something dumb it's like "oh look, thoughtless did something without thinking. ok". That said, there are more serious adults in the Liberal party I look forward to maybe having an opportunity to lead in the future. edit: Regarding the results, I suppose I'm not too upset. If anything, I'm just continually disappointed that my province chooses to vote so dogmatically. It creates zero incentive for any party to see us as a worthwhile investment. Justifiably, we should be taken off the table immediately when any progressive party is working out its national strategy. And now we get to spend the next several years watching our blowhard Premier continue to run around stoking anger and division by pointing his stubby little finger at the nebulous 'evil east' and dragging down our collective intelligence along the way. Fun. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
On October 22 2019 23:04 Danglars wrote: Careful what you wish for! But seriously, Canadians, you couldn’t do better than Trudeau? And how much credit does he get for managing to come back as a (likely) head of a minority government, compared to political campaign mistakes from his rivals? Canadians did not exactly give a ringing endorsement to Trudeau's Liberals. The popular vote for the "winning" Liberals was 33.1%. This is the lowest popular vote by a winning party in Canadian history. The previous low was 35.89% in 1979. So the Liberals "beat" the previous all time low by a pretty big margin. A little bit of insight into the Canadian voter. The party ruling Ontario rarely wins a federal election. The Conservative Party is running Ontario right now. Regarding Quebec, in 57 of the last 75 years Canada has been run by a Quebecer. For all intents and purposes Trudeau is a Quebecer; Trudeau's opponents are not. Ontarians will trust a really good Quebecer and vote for him. However, Quebecers rarely if ever trust a good politician from outside Quebec. Quebec and Ontario are the two most populous provinces in Canada. Win Ontario and win Quebec and you win outright. The Trudeau Liberals received the most luke warm of endorsements from the Canadian people that is possible... without actually losing the election. | ||
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Chairman Ray
United States11903 Posts
On October 23 2019 00:03 Ben... wrote: Maxime Bernier (Rhino Party) also cracked 1000 votes. I love democracy! | ||
Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On October 23 2019 00:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Canadians did not exactly give a ringing endorsement to Trudeau's Liberals. The popular vote for the "winning" Liberals was 33.1%. This is the lowest popular vote by a winning party in Canadian history. The previous low was 35.89% in 1979. So the Liberals "beat" the previous all time low by a pretty big margin. A little bit of insight into the Canadian voter. The party ruling Ontario rarely wins a federal election. The Conservative Party is running Ontario right now. Regarding Quebec, in 57 of the last 75 years Canada has been run by a Quebecer. For all intents and purposes Trudeau is a Quebecer; Trudeau's opponents are not. Ontarians will trust a really good Quebecer and vote for him. However, Quebecers rarely if ever trust a good politician from outside Quebec. Quebec and Ontario are the two most populous provinces in Canada. Win Ontario and win Quebec and you win outright. The Trudeau Liberals received the most luke warm of endorsements from the Canadian people that is possible... without actually losing the election. I don't have any statistical insight on that, but for myself personally, I always considered Justin Trudeau to be Canadian and not Quebecer, he pretty much lived in everywhere in the country, but he for sure present himself as a Quebecer when it suit him so maybe it did help him. With that said, Trudeau pretty much only won the english or immigrant county. The english part of Montreal that vote pretty much the highest margin country wide for libs whoever is the candidate and some county in the close suburb where there are a lot of first or second generation immigrants. The french county he did won in Montreal were in big part a consequence of the division of the vote between the Bloc and the NDP. Outside of Montreal the libs do about has well the Conservative (not in share of the vote but in seats) who are extremely strong in the Quebec City region. You don't need to do that well with french Canadian to win the election, but you do generally need them if you want to form a majority, although Harper managed to do without them in 2011 (he actually did his worst score in the province, only 5 deputy when he got the majority). Still, generally it's true that Ontario chose the color and Quebec chose the shade. | ||
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Falling
Canada11496 Posts
it doesn't matter who they pick, they're going to win in Alberta and Saskatchewan. Well, that's a mistake too. The old Progressive Conservatives took the West for granted and in swept the Reform Party. The regional splits look just as strong now. | ||
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Kevin_Sorbo
Canada3217 Posts
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
I always wanted Bob Rae over Justin Trudeau. I really would like to see some USMCA negotiating with Rae v. Trump. Speaking of the USMCA. https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/ross-says-democrats-better-get-going-on-usmca-trade-deal On October 23 2019 01:55 Nakajin wrote: With that said, Trudeau pretty much only won the english or immigrant county. The english part of Montreal that vote pretty much the highest margin country wide for libs whoever is the candidate and some county in the close suburb where there are a lot of first or second generation immigrants. The french county he did won in Montreal were in big part a consequence of the division of the vote between the Bloc and the NDP. The Liberals won the popular vote in Quebec at 34.2%. They got a lot more than anglophones and immigrants to vote for them. its in teh regional breakdown under Quebec. https://newsinteractives.cbc.ca/elections/federal/2019/results/ | ||
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Nakajin
Canada8989 Posts
On October 23 2019 02:15 Kevin_Sorbo wrote: Who will replace Jagmeet and Scheer as leaders of their parties? Jagmeet I hope to god no one, the NDP just killed themselves kicking out their last chief and he got the balance of power so the party will probably be to busy at the commune to go in yet another internal election where a bunch of nobody debate themselves in front of 8 people. Scheer is gonna be the juicy one, if I was him I would cling to power, he did good enough to have a legitimate claim at staying the chief. (winning the popular vote and getting around 20 extra county) I wouldn't be surprise to heard that quite a few people aren't to happy with how well Scheer did, he was suppose to be the sacrificial lamb before the big player step in. I can't see him walking away willingly, the next conservative congress are gonna be interesting to watch. Both Kenney and Mackay certainly have an eye on what's gonna happen, Raitt could have to but probably not after losing her seat and there is always the possibility for a wild Charest to finally make his push for Canadian PM. (although the party probably changed to much since his days) There are probably more big name I don't know about, but I can safely say that the 40 years old piece of cardboard who did nothing and became the leader because the only other contender to try to get the job was a ideological nutjob wasn't expected to become PM. | ||
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Danglars
United States12133 Posts
On October 23 2019 00:45 JimmyJRaynor wrote: Canadians did not exactly give a ringing endorsement to Trudeau's Liberals. The popular vote for the "winning" Liberals was 33.1%. This is the lowest popular vote by a winning party in Canadian history. The previous low was 35.89% in 1979. So the Liberals "beat" the previous all time low by a pretty big margin. A little bit of insight into the Canadian voter. The party ruling Ontario rarely wins a federal election. The Conservative Party is running Ontario right now. Regarding Quebec, in 57 of the last 75 years Canada has been run by a Quebecer. For all intents and purposes Trudeau is a Quebecer; Trudeau's opponents are not. Ontarians will trust a really good Quebecer and vote for him. However, Quebecers rarely if ever trust a good politician from outside Quebec. Quebec and Ontario are the two most populous provinces in Canada. Win Ontario and win Quebec and you win outright. The Trudeau Liberals received the most luke warm of endorsements from the Canadian people that is possible... without actually losing the election. I’m happy that he didn’t keep or increase his majority. I still wish some other party had succeeded in drawing a good contrast with his behavior in office and won it. All that cringe stuff and the scandals (albeit just those that really made international headlines) mean that somebody better suited should’ve been able to rally an opposition. I don’t know how feasible, considering political realities, it would be for that to have happened intraparty, if the center left/liberal platform is broadly appealing to the Canadian electorate. Good info on Quebecers & Ontarians. I’m sure gonna joke with my Canadian friends that teased me about Trump’s margin of victory. | ||
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JimmyJRaynor
Canada17467 Posts
On October 23 2019 04:00 Danglars wrote: I’m happy that he didn’t keep or increase his majority. I still wish some other party had succeeded in drawing a good contrast with his behavior in office and won it. All that cringe stuff and the scandals (albeit just those that really made international headlines) mean that somebody better suited should’ve been able to rally an opposition. I don’t know how feasible, considering political realities, it would be for that to have happened intraparty, if the center left/liberal platform is broadly appealing to the Canadian electorate. Good info on Quebecers & Ontarians. I’m sure gonna joke with my Canadian friends that teased me about Trump’s margin of victory. feel free to steal this bad joke i made. https://tl.net/forum/general/480705-canadian-politics-mega-thread?page=73#1443 | ||
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Rebs
Pakistan10726 Posts
So the percent might be larger, but the raw numbers is where it matters for me in this situation. Although in the grander scheme its a meaningless statistic whos only value is being a talking point. | ||
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Ben...
Canada3485 Posts
On October 23 2019 02:06 Falling wrote: Well, that's a mistake too. The old Progressive Conservatives took the West for granted and in swept the Reform Party. The regional splits look just as strong now. With no Reform Party, and the only other conservative political party on life support, they likely could get away with it next time around though. In general, yes it's dangerous to take the prairies for granted, but I think they could have done that this time because of how toxic Trudeau and the Liberal's brand is to the prairies. But again, I think it more comes down to that Scheer appeals only to the 28-30% base that always votes Conservative, and not really anyone that would otherwise potentially vote Conservative. In several polls just before the election, Scheer's personal approval was in the 27-30% range, below that of Conservative voter intention, which suggested that even among those who intended to vote Conservative, there were folks who didn't approve of Scheer. If the Conservatives want to win, they will need to appeal to people beyond the base, and I can't see that happening with someone like Scheer as leader. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
You can say whatever you want about Trudeau -- he's not great -- but the Conservatives have seemingly no ability to front any candidate who is not a complete waste of life. (I had some hopes for Patrick Brown in the Ontario provincial election -- he was not so bad! -- but we all saw how that went.) As it is, I'm grateful for the time we have with a progressive majority so that we can continue to take disruptive action on climate change. I hope that in the next 12 months, we can move the goalposts far and fast enough so that even the most regressive party is forced to have a solid plan for this. I believe it can happen. The Conservatives have clearly the worst "plan", but the NDP and the Liberals are not significantly better. Most other policy issues are sort of useless if the planet is uninhabitable in 50 years. I'd be happy to have the Cons in power if they stuck to a decent plan for climate change. Fat chance, but I still think it's possible to get us into a position where their platform is about equivalent to where the current Liberal one is. | ||
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mikedebo
Canada4341 Posts
On October 22 2019 23:04 Danglars wrote: Careful what you wish for! But seriously, Canadians, you couldn’t do better than Trudeau? And how much credit does he get for managing to come back as a (likely) head of a minority government, compared to political campaign mistakes from his rivals? Oh, it's you. Are you aware of who the other party leaders were, or how they showed up in the campaign? Re: Falling's "nonsensical character attacks": The trend I like least about how our campaigns continue to evolve is that all parties continue to push such garbage negative ads that focus so much on specific leaders (and ridiculous criticisms of them specifically) rather than on policy. Even the policy attacks are mostly fearmongering garbage. It's super frustrating to me. I know it has been found to be the most effective way to spend ad dollars and that's why they do it, but I can't stand it. | ||
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