|
On March 17 2015 23:30 xM(Z wrote:
you and that example dude, seriously ...
- you bitch and moan at people bringing extremist feminist points of view into discussion and yet to pick and hammer-on the only example of an extremist misogynist you have; you then parade it around making it seem like it's the rule in this kind of sexist harassment and not the exception.
- that is a clear case of sexual harassment. we have laws in place to deal with it. so, instead of wondering why the fuck those laws never came into play, you use that example to try and pass more laws/rules/regulations just so people would have more laws to ignore ...
Its an example featured in the article, which is the topic of the thread. And that is literally the whole story. Its not hard to find, you can just type in the guys name to google and the reports from 2012 will come up.
It is one of many examples of the harassment going well beyond simply being yelled at over voice chat. Also when women file law suits for sexual harassment, they are harassed further by other parties. This has been an ongoing trend in social media where women report sexual harassment or in inappropriate behavior and become targets. The CEO of reddit filed a sexual harassment suit against her former employeer and for reasons beyond understanding some people are trying to "dig up dirt on her".
But since the stream was run by Capcom, I am sure the girl would have received zero harassment if she decided to go the legal route as you suggest.
|
On March 17 2015 22:54 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 20:43 maartendq wrote:On March 17 2015 20:20 puerk wrote:On March 17 2015 18:52 maartendq wrote:
Although yeah, toughening up and not taking everything personal is generally a good attitude to have in the real world as well. Before you go all "MRA" on me (whatever that abbreviation might mean anyway), it's something I'd say to anyone, regardless of gender. The less you care about what people say or think about you, the freer you are.
so sociopaths confirmed role models? and on a related note: do you think there was ever a time where it was appropriate to advise african americans as a whole to just toughen up? Where did I mention sociopaths? Or role models? Unless "people who are rude to others on the internet and in video games" are considered sociopaths nowadays. There is a huge difference between contemporary gender issues in the western world and 19th century slavery. They are not in the least bit comparable. Nuancing is really completely lost on people nowadays. You're either pro something or against something. God forbid that your opinion is in the practically endless grey zone between those two extremes. Same thing with the whole Dolce and Gabbana farce. They're both gay but don't agree with gay marriage and IVF, so they must be self-hating homophobes. As if being gay means that you automatically agree with everything the LGBT lobby stands for. Same thing here again. You either agree with some people's idea(l)s of how women should be treated, or you're some kind male chauvinist pig. I cannot help but find it ironic that apparently some women demand that special measures be taken against online harassment to them, but at the same time do not want to be seen as the weaker sex. Even more ironic is that the people who may be in power to help them (programmers, designers ... ) are mostly men, effectively turning those women into damsels in distress, which is the opposite of what they want to be. This wouldn't have happened if the documentary had just been about harassment in the online gaming community in general. It has always been bad. CS back in the pre-1.6 days was just as much a cesspool as DOTA2, LoL and CS:GO are nowadays. This isn't going to end just because female gamers are becoming more numerous and start demanding change because they are somehow more easily offended. Have people really become this sensitive that they will feel offended when some teenage basement dweller says "nice boobs, take off your shirt"? Just mute, block or ban the guy and move on with your life. Life's to short to bother with that kind of people anyway. Better spend your energy on the people that actually are appreciative of the content you create, or the skill you display. They might not be the most vocal bunch, but they are the majority of your viewers, fans, etc. As stated before like 17 times in this thread, how to you mute someone in person? Because that is where the comment "Nice Boobs, take off your shirt" was referenced from. A 2012 live stream of a gaming competition where a player sexual harassed a female player. He never apologized and is still part of the community and can still attend events. If someone is going to sexually harass a women on camera and nothing was really done about it, it pretty much sums up the problem.
You mute that person by calling the cops, filing a complaint and charging him with sexual harassment, using the camera footage as proof. That is how human beings are supposed to deal with situations like this in a civil country where the rule of law applies, and if both parties refuse to, or are unable, to come to a mutual agreement or settlement.
If nothing was done about it, this means that neither party (the victim or the organisation) was all that bothered by it, of decided that it was not worth spending several thousands of dollars of legal costs on.
Another thing you could do is to accept that some people are assholes, that any amount of time being bothered about them is time wasted, and that you are better off just ignoring them.
Edit: to be honest, I doubt any judge in Europe would consider someone yelling "nice boobs, take off your shirt" once to someone as a sexual aggressor. As long as the purpotrator is not continuously targeting people or threatening their physical integrity, he won't really face charges. At worst a cop might warn him to not do it again and send him off.
Edit2: I take it you are talking about Ellen Pao's case? Apparently there are reasons to believe that she did not get promoted because she was not that much of a likeable person rather than being discriminated against. If someone charges you with discriminating someone due to their gender, the best way to prove that you did not is to show that you did not promote that person for other valid reasons. Trying to prove that no-one really liked her, while technically being digging up dirt on that person, is a perfectly legit way of doing that, and is good grounds for denying someone a promotion.
|
And her response was to participate in a documentary raising awareness about the issue and why it keeps women out of gaming. I don't see how this is an invalid response to the issue. Raising awareness that the problems are not addressed within the communities they are trying to join is totally acceptable.
This dude was not yelling something like a drunk idiot, he was harassing her so she preform poorly during her matches. He has said so during the interviews after the event.
|
On March 17 2015 20:20 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 18:52 maartendq wrote:
Although yeah, toughening up and not taking everything personal is generally a good attitude to have in the real world as well. Before you go all "MRA" on me (whatever that abbreviation might mean anyway), it's something I'd say to anyone, regardless of gender. The less you care about what people say or think about you, the freer you are.
so sociopaths confirmed role models? and on a related note: do you think there was ever a time where it was appropriate to advise african americans as a whole to just toughen up?
Making the comparaison between what the black community faced during the segregation / civil right movement and what girls face on the internet is a bit over the top.
|
On March 17 2015 18:30 xM(Z wrote:
the weaker you are perceived to be, the more you get picked on. adding sex-isms to that is like the cherry on top which makes everything taste that much better. being a female is considered to be just one more weakness.
so, the weaker you are (think of a woman, or a sexually ambiguous man with mild impediments in speech/looks/we; that will be the jack pot, the holy grail of mockery) the harder you're likely to fall under pressure which in turn would increase the enjoyment the abuser gets out of it. it's predator-like behavior. find the weakest link then kill it(metaphorically).
this, is (also)about sex, but not driven or limited by it so trying to fix the issue in the name of womanhood is at least egotistical.
whoa a post by you i agree with? oh wait never mind you think trying to solve a part of it is egotistical somehow.
yeah your right that people use femininity synonymously with weakness. and women take more abuse for this. While I disagree that it is the largest factor in why women are sexually abused in gaming, why would you argue against trying to solve a problem like that. of course there is no reason we shouldn't also be against gay being used similarly. but its one thing to point out that there are also other issues (a useless but valid thing to say) but its another thing to actively be against trying to solve a problem you acknowledge.
|
If i can chose between having the (passive) aggressive games/internet as i know it and having more women in there... I can live whiteout the women. Nothing against Women playing or whatever but if they don't like the "tone" that is just not a problem "men" have to fix for them. "Men" seem to be perfectly fine with the way things were done in online games since they came into existance, just as fine as they are with the rude tone on construction sites or in locker rooms.
Now either Women can join together and form their own community (like they do in "normal" competetive sports) or just toughen up because they are the "odd one out" and therefore will get more attention than "normal" members of a community do (good and bad sorts of it).
Btw: I work in a place with about 150 Women to 15 men... I like it, i like to work with women but my god, what they are doing to each other behind their backs, over some minor bullshit men don't even notice, is just scary.
|
On March 17 2015 23:56 Plansix wrote:
And her response was to participate in a documentary raising awareness about the issue and why it keeps women out of gaming. I don't see how this is an invalid response to the issue. Raising awareness that the problems are not addressed within the communities they are trying to join is totally acceptable.
This dude was not yelling something like a drunk idiot, he was harassing her so she preform poorly during her matches. He has said so during the interviews after the event.
Sounds like gamesmanship to me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gamesmanship
Getting your opponent on tilt is a classic, albeit sleazy, tactic.
|
http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.png
This image was linked in this thread.
I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things:
Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming:
![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/RB0RpuT.png)
In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad.
http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.png
Is another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin").
|
On March 18 2015 00:31 Zocat wrote:http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.pngThis image was linked in this thread. I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things: Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming: In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad. http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.pngIs another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin").
You didn't show the(but did link to) the part of that survey where women receive almost 50% more sexual harassment, over 50% more sustained harassment and stalking. Its quality over quantity and the harassment is over a longer period. They are more effected because the harassment they receive is straight up scarier.
|
On March 18 2015 00:06 ComaDose wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 18:30 xM(Z wrote:
the weaker you are perceived to be, the more you get picked on. adding sex-isms to that is like the cherry on top which makes everything taste that much better. being a female is considered to be just one more weakness.
so, the weaker you are (think of a woman, or a sexually ambiguous man with mild impediments in speech/looks/we; that will be the jack pot, the holy grail of mockery) the harder you're likely to fall under pressure which in turn would increase the enjoyment the abuser gets out of it. it's predator-like behavior. find the weakest link then kill it(metaphorically).
this, is (also)about sex, but not driven or limited by it so trying to fix the issue in the name of womanhood is at least egotistical.
whoa a post by you i agree with? oh wait never mind you think trying to solve a part of it is egotistical somehow. yeah your right that people use femininity synonymously with weakness. and women take more abuse for this. While I disagree that it is the largest factor in why women are sexually abused in gaming, why would you argue against trying to solve a problem like that. of course there is no reason we shouldn't also be against gay being used similarly. but its one thing to point out that there are also other issues (a useless but valid thing to say) but its another thing to actively be against trying to solve a problem you acknowledge.
i'm not against it per se, against trying solutions for this issue.
i just believe that the solution presented in here, with women being singled out then pushed as frontrunners in this crusade, will do more harm then good to everyone involved by antagonizing other interested parties in solving this matter, breeding extremists or overall just dividing people.
|
On March 17 2015 20:43 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 20:20 puerk wrote:On March 17 2015 18:52 maartendq wrote:
Although yeah, toughening up and not taking everything personal is generally a good attitude to have in the real world as well. Before you go all "MRA" on me (whatever that abbreviation might mean anyway), it's something I'd say to anyone, regardless of gender. The less you care about what people say or think about you, the freer you are.
so sociopaths confirmed role models? and on a related note: do you think there was ever a time where it was appropriate to advise african americans as a whole to just toughen up? I cannot help but find it ironic that apparently some women demand that special measures be taken against online harassment to them, but at the same time do not want to be seen as the weaker sex. Even more ironic is that the people who may be in power to help them (programmers, designers ... ) are mostly men, effectively turning those women into damsels in distress, which is the opposite of what they want to be. This wouldn't have happened if the documentary had just been about harassment in the online gaming community in general. It has always been bad. CS back in the pre-1.6 days was just as much a cesspool as DOTA2, LoL and CS:GO are nowadays. This isn't going to end just because female gamers are becoming more numerous and start demanding change because they are somehow more easily offended.
I've seen this point about "women demand[ing] special measures be taken," and I'm not sure I quite understand where it's coming from. My impression of the documentary---again, without having seen it---was that it encouraged women to get involved with gaming and to speak out against harassment themselves, not that it was making some pitch for new legislation (or whatever "special measures" is supposed to mean). There's a pretty big difference between these two things, and yet they seem to be getting conflated quite a bit.
Regarding "harassment in the online gaming community," you agree that "It has always been bad." All the documentary seems to be saying is, "Hey fellow women (the maker is a woman), if you're being targeted, why don't you do something about it? Here are some solutions: get involved in game development, flip people the bird when you get harassed, and go to LAN events." How is any of that asking for special treatment? If anything, it's encouraging more women to wade into the "cesspool" of online gaming for themselves. And I feel like there's some implicit encouragement for men who are being targeted to do the same.
|
On March 17 2015 04:15 Millitron wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 03:10 Jelissei wrote:On March 17 2015 02:48 Millitron wrote:
There ARE systems in place though already. Not just the mute button either. If women are being harassed at live events, they need to talk to the event's organizers. Making a documentary about it solves nothing.
The people who cause these problems are the exact kind of people who will ignore any documentary you can show them. Of course! Making a documentary makes people aware of a problem they could otherwise dismiss. Public pressure can make the difference of an organisation positioning themselves against sexism. And if you wanna make the point of: Well, why not just write an article. Answer: Well, why not just make a documentary. Aris Bakhtanians: "This is a community that's, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it's not the fighting game community—it's StarCraft," TwitchTV community manager Jared Rea: "(....) the fighting game community is home to many players and spectators who have created an environment that "is just not friendly towards women." He recalled a number of instances where players and spectators hurled misogynistic or homophobic comments in a crowded tournament hall, at one point forcing Rea's girlfriend to leave the one and only tournament she'd ever attended." I mean, come on!? How do take actions against a crowd? What systems are you thinking of? You have to start by telling people that this is bad. They have to learn that this is bad behavior. Opposing this effort is just... I don't know. I really do not comprehend why someone would invest energy against that. edit to add to Slaughters post: Hunter - gatherer ? You really haven't paid attention in your archeology class, have you? Do you also think there weren't any female fighters? This whole notion came into being with the presumption that women stay at home. It's like saying dinosaur could hide themselves in the forest, because their skin was green. How do you know their skin was green? You don't! How do you know women were not hunters / fighters? Well, there have been graves found with women and weapons. Earlier, scientists just thought of them as men, because of the weapons. You get the drift?edit2: sry for being rude in my edit  There are far more men found buried with weapons than women. Yes, there were some rare occasions of female warriors, but it was nowhere near a 50/50 split. The reason the ancient Greeks talked so much about Amazons was that having any female soldiers was mindblowing to them, and they exaggerated the shit out of it until we have the current version of the Amazon myth. If women really did fight very often, it would've been no big deal to them and they never would've mythologized it. This isn't to say women had no power, quite the opposite. In day-to-day affairs women had a great deal of power. Because they were at home more often than the men, they often ran the household. Women hired and fired servants, women handled the household budget, women managed the house's food supply, and most importantly, they gossiped. Gossip gave them a great deal of power even outside the home. They had a great deal of influence over the government in that they were basically an ancient version of CNN. They spread news and rumors. Here's a few videos on the topic by an archaeologist and a generally cool dude: + Show Spoiler +
When talking about hunter and gatherer one usually thinks about 10.000 BC, not 1000 BC. Hunter and gatherer are nomadic societies. Well actually the other way around, nomadic societies need hunters and gatherers because of lack of agriculture.
When you're talking about the greeks amazement of Amazons, you're talking about a society that has already established cultural roles for men and women. The greeks were not in dire need of food. They had slaves to work the fields.
I watched the first video and won't watch the other ones. Sorry, but that's just too pseudo-scientific for my taste (I don't mind the dude though  ).
A buddy of mine actually studied archeology, went to many archeology sites, saw many graves and was/is reading the books interpreting those findings and those newer books, putting the older ones in perspective. I trust him more, than I trust some guy on the internet.
(not saying it's 50/50. Just saying even 70/30 would make the assumptions of the newsweek article invalid imo)
But let's pretend all he says is true, I still wonder how people don't acknowledge sexism.
If men are really expandable, it should be to no surprise that men try to take power over women. The inferiority complex must be huge among us. Sexism can then be seen as overcompensating those feelings.
All the more reason to explain to men how they shouldn't be dicks to women, just because mother nature (or God) made them "expandable".
It is not sexism when women get flamed. It is sexism when they are flamed for being women.
It is an indication when a lot of women get flamed, that there might be sexism at work.
|
On March 18 2015 02:16 Jelissei wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 04:15 Millitron wrote:On March 17 2015 03:10 Jelissei wrote:On March 17 2015 02:48 Millitron wrote:
There ARE systems in place though already. Not just the mute button either. If women are being harassed at live events, they need to talk to the event's organizers. Making a documentary about it solves nothing.
The people who cause these problems are the exact kind of people who will ignore any documentary you can show them. Of course! Making a documentary makes people aware of a problem they could otherwise dismiss. Public pressure can make the difference of an organisation positioning themselves against sexism. And if you wanna make the point of: Well, why not just write an article. Answer: Well, why not just make a documentary. Aris Bakhtanians: "This is a community that's, you know, 15 or 20 years old, and the sexual harassment is part of a culture, and if you remove that from the fighting game community, it's not the fighting game community—it's StarCraft," TwitchTV community manager Jared Rea: "(....) the fighting game community is home to many players and spectators who have created an environment that "is just not friendly towards women." He recalled a number of instances where players and spectators hurled misogynistic or homophobic comments in a crowded tournament hall, at one point forcing Rea's girlfriend to leave the one and only tournament she'd ever attended." I mean, come on!? How do take actions against a crowd? What systems are you thinking of? You have to start by telling people that this is bad. They have to learn that this is bad behavior. Opposing this effort is just... I don't know. I really do not comprehend why someone would invest energy against that. edit to add to Slaughters post: Hunter - gatherer ? You really haven't paid attention in your archeology class, have you? Do you also think there weren't any female fighters? This whole notion came into being with the presumption that women stay at home. It's like saying dinosaur could hide themselves in the forest, because their skin was green. How do you know their skin was green? You don't! How do you know women were not hunters / fighters? Well, there have been graves found with women and weapons. Earlier, scientists just thought of them as men, because of the weapons. You get the drift?edit2: sry for being rude in my edit There are far more men found buried with weapons than women. Yes, there were some rare occasions of female warriors, but it was nowhere near a 50/50 split. The reason the ancient Greeks talked so much about Amazons was that having any female soldiers was mindblowing to them, and they exaggerated the shit out of it until we have the current version of the Amazon myth. If women really did fight very often, it would've been no big deal to them and they never would've mythologized it. This isn't to say women had no power, quite the opposite. In day-to-day affairs women had a great deal of power. Because they were at home more often than the men, they often ran the household. Women hired and fired servants, women handled the household budget, women managed the house's food supply, and most importantly, they gossiped. Gossip gave them a great deal of power even outside the home. They had a great deal of influence over the government in that they were basically an ancient version of CNN. They spread news and rumors. Here's a few videos on the topic by an archaeologist and a generally cool dude: + Show Spoiler + When talking about hunter and gatherer one usually thinks about 10.000 BC, not 1000 BC. Hunter and gatherer are nomadic societies. Well actually the other way around, nomadic societies need hunters and gatherers because of lack of agriculture. When you're talking about the greeks amazement of Amazons, you're talking about a society that has already established cultural roles for men and women. The greeks were not in dire need of food. They had slaves to work the fields. I watched the first video and won't watch the other ones. Sorry, but that's just too pseudo-scientific for my taste (I don't mind the dude though ). A buddy of mine actually studied archeology, went to many archeology sites, saw many graves and was/is reading the books interpreting those findings and those newer books, putting the older ones in perspective. I trust him more, than I trust some guy on the internet. (not saying it's 50/50. Just saying even 70/30 would make the assumptions of the newsweek article invalid imo) But let's pretend all he says is true, I still wonder how people don't acknowledge sexism. If men are really expandable, it should be to no surprise that men try to take power over women. The inferiority complex must be huge among us. Sexism can then be seen as overcompensating those feelings. All the more reason to explain to men how they shouldn't be dicks to women, just because mother nature (or God) made them "expandable". It is not sexism when women get flamed. It is sexism when they are flamed for being women.
It is an indication when a lot of women get flamed, that there might be sexism at work.
so is it worse to be a sexist flamer than to be a regular/normal flamer of women?. i don't get the distinction.
i wouldn't care either way.
|
On March 17 2015 23:43 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 17 2015 23:30 xM(Z wrote:
you and that example dude, seriously ...
- you bitch and moan at people bringing extremist feminist points of view into discussion and yet to pick and hammer-on the only example of an extremist misogynist you have; you then parade it around making it seem like it's the rule in this kind of sexist harassment and not the exception.
- that is a clear case of sexual harassment. we have laws in place to deal with it. so, instead of wondering why the fuck those laws never came into play, you use that example to try and pass more laws/rules/regulations just so people would have more laws to ignore ... Its an example featured in the article, which is the topic of the thread. And that is literally the whole story. Its not hard to find, you can just type in the guys name to google and the reports from 2012 will come up. It is one of many examples of the harassment going well beyond simply being yelled at over voice chat. Also when women file law suits for sexual harassment, they are harassed further by other parties. This has been an ongoing trend in social media where women report sexual harassment or in inappropriate behavior and become targets. The CEO of reddit filed a sexual harassment suit against her former employeer and for reasons beyond understanding some people are trying to "dig up dirt on her". But since the stream was run by Capcom, I am sure the girl would have received zero harassment if she decided to go the legal route as you suggest.
sorry but that's just condescending bullshit. what am i supposed to do with that reply?.
we were talking about a gaming related incident and you sent me to google so i could find other similar but real life incidents. i know there are more but i also know that those are illegal too.
you then imply that the sexual harassment laws we have are shit because are not enforced and i'm supposed to say or do what?. i mean that's fucked up, sure, but how would you fix it if laws can't?.
it's clientelism, preferential treatment, one hand washes the other; call it however you want but it has always been like this in many areas of our social life (just look at that child abuse case few topics down).
again, it is not a woman-centric issue.
|
On March 18 2015 00:40 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2015 00:31 Zocat wrote:http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.pngThis image was linked in this thread. I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things: Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming: In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad. http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.pngIs another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin"). You didn't show the(but did link to) the part of that survey where women receive almost 50% more sexual harassment, over 50% more sustained harassment and stalking. Its quality over quantity and the harassment is over a longer period. They are more effected because the harassment they receive is straight up scarier.
This has already been adressed : insults and harassment online is sexualize, which mean that when it touch women it's sexual harassment, and when it's against men, it's verbal harassment and threat on the physical integrity (beating, etc.).
|
On March 18 2015 03:36 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2015 00:40 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2015 00:31 Zocat wrote:http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.pngThis image was linked in this thread. I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things: Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming: In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad. http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.pngIs another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin"). You didn't show the(but did link to) the part of that survey where women receive almost 50% more sexual harassment, over 50% more sustained harassment and stalking. Its quality over quantity and the harassment is over a longer period. They are more effected because the harassment they receive is straight up scarier. This has already been adressed : insults and harassment online is sexualize, which mean that when it touch women it's sexual harassment, and when it's against men, it's verbal harassment and threat on the physical integrity (beating, etc.).
Men do not get harassed for being men. Women do get harassed for being women. Is this distinction not clear yet?
|
On March 18 2015 03:41 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2015 03:36 WhiteDog wrote:On March 18 2015 00:40 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2015 00:31 Zocat wrote:http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.pngThis image was linked in this thread. I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things: Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming: In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad. http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.pngIs another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin"). You didn't show the(but did link to) the part of that survey where women receive almost 50% more sexual harassment, over 50% more sustained harassment and stalking. Its quality over quantity and the harassment is over a longer period. They are more effected because the harassment they receive is straight up scarier. This has already been adressed : insults and harassment online is sexualize, which mean that when it touch women it's sexual harassment, and when it's against men, it's verbal harassment and threat on the physical integrity (beating, etc.). Men do not get harassed for being men. Women do get harassed for being women. Is this distinction not clear yet?
And he skipped over the disparity between sustained harassment and stalking between genders too.
|
No.
People online get flamed.
No matter and not because of the gender. The flamers just adjust their flames based on their knowlede about the target.
There is 0 need for a distinction.
|
On March 18 2015 03:41 kwizach wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2015 03:36 WhiteDog wrote:On March 18 2015 00:40 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2015 00:31 Zocat wrote:http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.pngThis image was linked in this thread. I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things: Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming: In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad. http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.pngIs another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin"). You didn't show the(but did link to) the part of that survey where women receive almost 50% more sexual harassment, over 50% more sustained harassment and stalking. Its quality over quantity and the harassment is over a longer period. They are more effected because the harassment they receive is straight up scarier. This has already been adressed : insults and harassment online is sexualize, which mean that when it touch women it's sexual harassment, and when it's against men, it's verbal harassment and threat on the physical integrity (beating, etc.). Men do not get harassed for being men. Women do get harassed for being women. Is this distinction not clear yet?
You can't prove that tho (it's a question of intention). Some people here believe some people would insult anybody on the internet, it's just that when they know that they are facing a woman, they adjust their insults to their target(s).
|
On March 18 2015 00:46 xM(Z wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2015 00:06 ComaDose wrote:On March 17 2015 18:30 xM(Z wrote:
the weaker you are perceived to be, the more you get picked on. adding sex-isms to that is like the cherry on top which makes everything taste that much better. being a female is considered to be just one more weakness.
so, the weaker you are (think of a woman, or a sexually ambiguous man with mild impediments in speech/looks/we; that will be the jack pot, the holy grail of mockery) the harder you're likely to fall under pressure which in turn would increase the enjoyment the abuser gets out of it. it's predator-like behavior. find the weakest link then kill it(metaphorically).
this, is (also)about sex, but not driven or limited by it so trying to fix the issue in the name of womanhood is at least egotistical.
whoa a post by you i agree with? oh wait never mind you think trying to solve a part of it is egotistical somehow. yeah your right that people use femininity synonymously with weakness. and women take more abuse for this. While I disagree that it is the largest factor in why women are sexually abused in gaming, why would you argue against trying to solve a problem like that. of course there is no reason we shouldn't also be against gay being used similarly. but its one thing to point out that there are also other issues (a useless but valid thing to say) but its another thing to actively be against trying to solve a problem you acknowledge. i'm not against it per se, against trying solutions for this issue. i just believe that the solution presented in here, with women being singled out then pushed as frontrunners in this crusade, will do more harm then good to everyone involved by antagonizing other interested parties in solving this matter, breeding extremists or overall just dividing people.
I believe that the solution lies within removing the source of the problem. When those that are sexually harassing females are viewed as deplorable by the majority, they will dwindle in numbers until ideally no one is left that thinks its cool.
On March 18 2015 03:53 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On March 18 2015 03:41 kwizach wrote:On March 18 2015 03:36 WhiteDog wrote:On March 18 2015 00:40 Plansix wrote:On March 18 2015 00:31 Zocat wrote:http://i.imgur.com/B0F70Zc.pngThis image was linked in this thread. I read the rest of the study and noticed some other interesting things: Since we're talking (at least the topic was) about gaming: In gaming - men are more likely to be harassed. I thus don't really understand why everyone is always claiming that gamers are so bad. http://i.imgur.com/EJyVj9G.pngIs another interesting thing. Women respond stronger to harassment. It's unknown if they receive more serious harassment or if they just react stronger to it (possible leading to "get a thicker skin"). You didn't show the(but did link to) the part of that survey where women receive almost 50% more sexual harassment, over 50% more sustained harassment and stalking. Its quality over quantity and the harassment is over a longer period. They are more effected because the harassment they receive is straight up scarier. This has already been adressed : insults and harassment online is sexualize, which mean that when it touch women it's sexual harassment, and when it's against men, it's verbal harassment and threat on the physical integrity (beating, etc.). Men do not get harassed for being men. Women do get harassed for being women. Is this distinction not clear yet? You can't prove that tho (it's a question of intention). Some people here believe some people would insult anybody on the internet, it's just that when they know that they are facing a woman, they adjust their insults to their target(s).
That's not what being made fun of because they are a woman means! people that would insult anybody are not insulting women because they are women. There is no doubt that those people exists. But when a girl identifies as a girl and is harassed as a result of that it is much different. You never hear someone say "oh its a boy lol get back to hunting and fishing" or some such.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
