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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 967

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6283 Posts
October 15 2017 10:43 GMT
#19321
I'm rather amazed that it's such a huge issue in the US. If people want to kneel to protest just let them. It's a legit way to protest without any violence or negative side effects for anyone.
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
October 15 2017 11:00 GMT
#19322
On October 15 2017 17:06 Big J wrote:
So who is excited for 60% votes for a lower taxation of firms and upper incomes, no taxation at all for profits that are not paid out right away, reduction of indirect labor costs (i.e. less payments for firms into the already underfinanced pension system) and more "dynamic" work hours in Austria?

Make privileges for the rich great again!

Read some articles yesterday about the elections in your country... and I best understand your desire to emigrate lol.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-15 11:56:20
October 15 2017 11:55 GMT
#19323
On October 15 2017 18:00 GreenHorizons wrote:
I'm curious what, if anything, was the reaction in Germany to this?


I support the players' and management's decision. Hertha BSC has historically housed xeno- and homophobic fans and failed to stand against them for quite some time. The "say no to racism" campaign that already runs for ages felt a little odd with Clubs and the German football federation often turning a blind eye to that kind of behaviour.
Being in the stadium as a child made me hate many football fans with vigour and I might be a little biased here. Though from what I've read the Club (Hertha BSC) started to actively engage such behaviour in the 2000s and managed to reduce the # of incidents immensely with fans policing fans.
Though racism and homophobia still pervade the sport on a false macho culture level as well as in certain fan groups' mindset.

The reception I've read varies from "nice PR stunt" to praise for a genuine support of equality.
Admittedly I neither use facebook nor do I frequent rightwing/conservative sites so my overview is a little limited.
passive quaranstream fan
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11885 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-15 12:08:21
October 15 2017 12:07 GMT
#19324
On October 15 2017 19:43 RvB wrote:
I'm rather amazed that it's such a huge issue in the US. If people want to kneel to protest just let them. It's a legit way to protest without any violence or negative side effects for anyone.


I looked up a few news stories and the related comments to that to give a rough impression on how people outside of my social circle think about it.

Very important: This comes from about 20 minutes of looking at german news story comments, many of which are quite obviously not made by the smartest people.

-A bunch of people saying it is silly to protest US stuff in Germany
-A bunch of people saying it is silly that the rich soccer players act as if they care about social problems, while owning a Porsche.
-A bunch of people saying the whole thing is pointless because there is no US hymn in the background while they are kneeling
-Some people blaming "leftist populists" for hiding protest against the police behind protest against Trump (Protesting Trump is hardly controversial here, barely anyone thinks positively about Trump)
-Some barely veiled racists saying they should rather protest against brown people in Berlin in some circumstance or the other
-Some people saying that Hertha lost the game after kneeling because there mind was occupied with politics
-Some people saying all of the above are idiots and this is a nice display of solidarity.

If i were to give an estimate of what people i actually know think about it, the view would be a lot more positive. Something along the lines of "nice, why not". None of them really care about soccer though, and most of them are college leftists.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18863 Posts
October 15 2017 12:09 GMT
#19325
Based on what I can surmise, the gesture is very much appreciated by many here in the States
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
October 15 2017 12:12 GMT
#19326
From my experience, it is very difficult to understand US racial issues as a European - and similarly many Americans are not aware that Europe largely lacks their experience in this regard, so talking about this stuff across the Ocean rarely brings anything productive.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18863 Posts
October 15 2017 12:21 GMT
#19327
I disagree, particularly given that race issues here in the US tie into immigration in a fashion that implicates many of the concerns shared by European nations subject to schengen. For example, a lot of the "build a wall" nonsense comes from a similar place as "Leave the EU because our borders are meaningless!" and though the kneeling protest looks like it regards a mostly "black/white" issue, police mistreatment of minorities and other facets of systemic racism affect far more than just black people. A lot of the anti-Islam sentiment translates over as well.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
October 15 2017 12:22 GMT
#19328
Yeah, I don't see what's so hard to understand regarding racism in the USA; as opposed to, say, GUNS.
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28814 Posts
October 15 2017 12:23 GMT
#19329
Personally, I think that's exactly why talking about this stuff across the ocean is productive.
Moderator
opisska
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Poland8852 Posts
October 15 2017 12:38 GMT
#19330
Yeah and this failure to see what's so different is the typical root of the ensuing misunderstandings. We have honestly no idea, what systemic racism even looks like compared to what happens in the US, for many reasons. The blacks aren't a small minority but a huge part of the country, with mostly the same culture and identity as the whites, yet their lives are constantly affected by their skin color, even when facing official institutions. Moreover, quite recently (first half of 20th century), segregation was widespread and legal - again an experience we know essentially nothing about, again enhanced by the fact that the target was such a huge part of the population. We seriously know nothing.
"Jeez, that's far from ideal." - Serral, the king of mild trashtalk
TL+ Member
Sent.
Profile Joined June 2012
Poland9308 Posts
October 15 2017 12:41 GMT
#19331
I assume some Western Europeans know, to a certain degree, what systemic racism is.
You're now breathing manually
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
October 15 2017 13:50 GMT
#19332
A friend of mine from brazil, a big fluffy black guy, gets searched regularly at train stations here in Germany.
I've never been searched.

A classmate of mine was told by our teacher that she can't be good in physics because of her headscarf and that Muslims don't believe in science.

Anecdotal, true, but that Europe doesn't have systemic discrimination is a pipe dream. We have a Race Equality Directive for a reason.
I'd also challenge the sentiment that you require the discriminated group to hold a significant share of the populace to call it systemic. Also we do have such bigger communities that suffer said systemic discrimination, i.e. Sinti and Roma.
passive quaranstream fan
Yurie
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
12103 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-15 14:54:44
October 15 2017 14:51 GMT
#19333
I will agree that Europe has discrimination based on "race" as well. A lot of refuges with good educations end up taxi drivers or similar due to not being able to get a job in their area of expertise. Having names that don't fit in makes it more likely to not get to an interview and so on.

I can see it in my own reaction when I do the initial judgment of a person. I favour certain looks, clothes and similar things. I think I move past that pretty quickly but it is hard to know for certain. I know I talk to them normally, I can go do stuff outside of work with them and so on. Hard to tell for sure.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11885 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-15 15:03:19
October 15 2017 15:00 GMT
#19334
On October 15 2017 22:50 Artisreal wrote:
A classmate of mine was told by our teacher that she can't be good in physics because of her headscarf and that Muslims don't believe in science.


This is making me incredibly angry, because it hits close to home. I am currently in the process of becoming a maths and physics teacher, and saying something like that to a student is utterly disgusting. WTF. You are a teacher, you are supposed to support your students and bring out the best in them, that is literally the whole point of the job. Discouraging them because of your prejudices is horrible.

I hope everybody got mad at that teacher and complained about him to the school director? Because that is definitively what you should do in that case.

Also, how the fuck can you tell someone else what they believe in.

Edit: A lot of the "educated people end up as taxi drivers" problem is that some countries are very picky in who is allowed to do a job. And those countries often have problems accepting the graduations from other countries. So you might be licensed to practice medicine in syria, but Germany doesn't accept a graduation from a syrian school, and thus you are not licensed to practice medicine in Germany.

It is a bit shitty, but in some regards also reasonable if the standards are widely different in other countries.
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United States13779 Posts
October 15 2017 15:12 GMT
#19335
For medicine at least, I think that having a foreign degree is a perfectly good reason not to be allowed to practice medicine. God knows there's plenty of know-nothing doctors around the world from shitty educational backgrounds, and medicine is all about liability. Though given the perpetual shortage of doctors, a "fast track" option for already degreed medical professionals would not be unreasonable.
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11885 Posts
October 15 2017 15:24 GMT
#19336
Yes, but i used medicine as an example. There are rules as to who can perform pretty much any job in Germany. If you want to be a plumber, you need have done a plumbers apprenticeship. If you want to open up a plumber shop, you need to be a master plumber.

And yes, it is not incredibly simple to solve. You can't just let anyone who claims to have a medicine degree from Somalia practice medicine, but there needs to be a good fast track like you described for most jobs. There are agreements with some countries of course, but the whole problem is rather complex.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
October 15 2017 15:29 GMT
#19337
On October 16 2017 00:00 Simberto wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 15 2017 22:50 Artisreal wrote:
A classmate of mine was told by our teacher that she can't be good in physics because of her headscarf and that Muslims don't believe in science.


This is making me incredibly angry, because it hits close to home. I am currently in the process of becoming a maths and physics teacher, and saying something like that to a student is utterly disgusting. WTF. You are a teacher, you are supposed to support your students and bring out the best in them, that is literally the whole point of the job. Discouraging them because of your prejudices is horrible.

I hope everybody got mad at that teacher and complained about him to the school director? Because that is definitively what you should do in that case.

Also, how the fuck can you tell someone else what they believe in.

Edit: A lot of the "educated people end up as taxi drivers" problem is that some countries are very picky in who is allowed to do a job. And those countries often have problems accepting the graduations from other countries. So you might be licensed to practice medicine in syria, but Germany doesn't accept a graduation from a syrian school, and thus you are not licensed to practice medicine in Germany.

It is a bit shitty, but in some regards also reasonable if the standards are widely different in other countries.

The same teacher said to a German pupil that judging from his hairstyle he should be good at physics.
He wasn't and even though never saying shit in class and fucking up the tests he got a solid B at the end of the semester.

This teacher was challenged multiple times by pupils as well as parents due to the liberal leaning of the district but nothing was done by management. It's kinda hard when you cannot fire them.
And keep in mind this was in the early 2000s.
passive quaranstream fan
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
October 15 2017 15:36 GMT
#19338
On October 16 2017 00:29 Artisreal wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 16 2017 00:00 Simberto wrote:
On October 15 2017 22:50 Artisreal wrote:
A classmate of mine was told by our teacher that she can't be good in physics because of her headscarf and that Muslims don't believe in science.


This is making me incredibly angry, because it hits close to home. I am currently in the process of becoming a maths and physics teacher, and saying something like that to a student is utterly disgusting. WTF. You are a teacher, you are supposed to support your students and bring out the best in them, that is literally the whole point of the job. Discouraging them because of your prejudices is horrible.

I hope everybody got mad at that teacher and complained about him to the school director? Because that is definitively what you should do in that case.

Also, how the fuck can you tell someone else what they believe in.

Edit: A lot of the "educated people end up as taxi drivers" problem is that some countries are very picky in who is allowed to do a job. And those countries often have problems accepting the graduations from other countries. So you might be licensed to practice medicine in syria, but Germany doesn't accept a graduation from a syrian school, and thus you are not licensed to practice medicine in Germany.

It is a bit shitty, but in some regards also reasonable if the standards are widely different in other countries.

The same teacher said to a German pupil that judging from his hairstyle he should be good at physics.
He wasn't and even though never saying shit in class and fucking up the tests he got a solid B at the end of the semester.

This teacher was challenged multiple times by pupils as well as parents due to the liberal leaning of the district but nothing was done by management. It's kinda hard when you cannot fire them.
And keep in mind this was in the early 2000s.

That looks like a problem with one insane person. Kind of hard to judge the entire society based on A person.

Austria will have 31 yo prime minister. First Macron now this... Good to see the old farts go away.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-15 15:38:27
October 15 2017 15:37 GMT
#19339
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3
Nebuchad
Profile Blog Joined December 2012
Switzerland12468 Posts
October 15 2017 15:41 GMT
#19340
On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3


What does conservative mean in Austria? (broadly)
No will to live, no wish to die
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