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On October 16 2017 00:36 Pr0wler wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 00:29 Artisreal wrote:On October 16 2017 00:00 Simberto wrote:On October 15 2017 22:50 Artisreal wrote:
A classmate of mine was told by our teacher that she can't be good in physics because of her headscarf and that Muslims don't believe in science. This is making me incredibly angry, because it hits close to home. I am currently in the process of becoming a maths and physics teacher, and saying something like that to a student is utterly disgusting. WTF. You are a teacher, you are supposed to support your students and bring out the best in them, that is literally the whole point of the job. Discouraging them because of your prejudices is horrible. I hope everybody got mad at that teacher and complained about him to the school director? Because that is definitively what you should do in that case. Also, how the fuck can you tell someone else what they believe in. Edit: A lot of the "educated people end up as taxi drivers" problem is that some countries are very picky in who is allowed to do a job. And those countries often have problems accepting the graduations from other countries. So you might be licensed to practice medicine in syria, but Germany doesn't accept a graduation from a syrian school, and thus you are not licensed to practice medicine in Germany. It is a bit shitty, but in some regards also reasonable if the standards are widely different in other countries. The same teacher said to a German pupil that judging from his hairstyle he should be good at physics. He wasn't and even though never saying shit in class and fucking up the tests he got a solid B at the end of the semester. This teacher was challenged multiple times by pupils as well as parents due to the liberal leaning of the district but nothing was done by management. It's kinda hard when you cannot fire them. And keep in mind this was in the early 2000s. That looks like a problem with one insane person. Kind of hard to judge the entire society based on A person. Austria will have 31 yo prime minister. First Macron now this... Good to see the old farts go away.
I pointed out that this is purely anecdotal. The systemic discrimination of sinti is not touched by that at all though and still remains a steadfast pillar of discrimination in Europe.
edit: added a more recent source
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On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3
Hadn't polls announced worse results for S&D ? Here they didn't lose much since 2013.
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On October 16 2017 00:41 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3 What does conservative mean in Austria? (broadly)
It's a party of interest groups. Farmers, industrials, economic chamber, employee interest groups. All forms of law-forced participation groups, so they have like 700.000 members.
But they are making a huge shift towards a very rightwing course on immigration and very low taxes for firms now. It seems like their model for society is: employees pay high taxes to pay for state services (police, infrastructure) and the social state, property owners and entrepreneurs just shouldn't pay anything and get little social securities. Also social securities only for nationals, not for EU.
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On October 16 2017 00:50 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3 Hadn't polls announced worse results for S&D ? Here they didn't lose much since 2013.
Yes, the polls for ÖVP were higher and for SPÖ and FPÖ lower.
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Next polls: ÖVP and SPÖ slightly higher, Greens out.
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On October 16 2017 01:02 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 00:41 Nebuchad wrote:On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3 What does conservative mean in Austria? (broadly) It's a party of interest groups. Farmers, industrials, economic chamber, employee interest groups. All forms of law-forced participation groups, so they have like 700.000 members. But they are making a huge shift towards a very rightwing course on immigration and very low taxes for firms now. It seems like their model for society is: employees pay high taxes to pay for state services (police, infrastructure) and the social state, property owners and entrepreneurs just shouldn't pay anything and get little social securities.
I get you. Sounds like it was similar to our CVP originally and it's turning right.
The results look very similar to what we get in Switzerland, with one major difference: our liberals score way higher and our centre right scores lower. You would expect that the type of switch you describe would take votes from nationalists rather than liberals, it's interesting to me that it's your liberals who are so low.
edit: nvm just found out that your liberals are in the center, so to the left of ÖVP, while our liberals are to the right of our CVP. It's more like ÖVP is our liberals then.
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On October 16 2017 01:16 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 01:02 Big J wrote:On October 16 2017 00:41 Nebuchad wrote:On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3 What does conservative mean in Austria? (broadly) It's a party of interest groups. Farmers, industrials, economic chamber, employee interest groups. All forms of law-forced participation groups, so they have like 700.000 members. But they are making a huge shift towards a very rightwing course on immigration and very low taxes for firms now. It seems like their model for society is: employees pay high taxes to pay for state services (police, infrastructure) and the social state, property owners and entrepreneurs just shouldn't pay anything and get little social securities. I get you. Sounds like it was similar to our CVP originally and it's turning right. The results look very similar to what we get in Switzerland, with one major difference: our liberals score way higher and our centre right scores lower. You would expect that the type of switch you describe would take votes from nationalists rather than liberals, it's interesting to me that it's your liberals who are so low.
Liberals have a very complicated stance in Austria. In the 80s the FDP tried to form the FPÖ in a liberal party, but in 1986 they turned hard right. Their liberal wing formed their own party LIF, which got demolished by the Greens being taken over by Van der Bellen (now our president). It took until 2013 and Van der Bellen stepping down as Green leader for a liberal party (Neos) to return to the parliament. They didn't lose anything this election. They simply were never bigger.
ÖVP took from the nationalists. Before Kurz took over the ÖVP, the FPÖ had poll values close to 35% and the ÖVP around 20%.
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On October 16 2017 01:29 Big J wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 01:16 Nebuchad wrote:On October 16 2017 01:02 Big J wrote:On October 16 2017 00:41 Nebuchad wrote:On October 16 2017 00:37 Big J wrote:
First results of the Austrian election:
ÖVP (conservatives): 30.5
FPÖ (nationalists): 26.8
SPÖ (social-democrats): 26.2
Neos (liberals): 5.3
Die Grünen (Greens): 4.7
Liste Pilz (Green-Secular): 4.3 What does conservative mean in Austria? (broadly) It's a party of interest groups. Farmers, industrials, economic chamber, employee interest groups. All forms of law-forced participation groups, so they have like 700.000 members. But they are making a huge shift towards a very rightwing course on immigration and very low taxes for firms now. It seems like their model for society is: employees pay high taxes to pay for state services (police, infrastructure) and the social state, property owners and entrepreneurs just shouldn't pay anything and get little social securities. I get you. Sounds like it was similar to our CVP originally and it's turning right. The results look very similar to what we get in Switzerland, with one major difference: our liberals score way higher and our centre right scores lower. You would expect that the type of switch you describe would take votes from nationalists rather than liberals, it's interesting to me that it's your liberals who are so low. Liberals have a very complicated stance in Austria. In the 80s the FDP tried to form the FPÖ in a liberal party, but in 1986 they turned hard right. Their liberal wing formed their own party LIF, which got demolished by the Greens being taken over by Van der Bellen (now our president). It took until 2013 and Van der Bellen stepping down as Green leader for a liberal party (Neos) to return to the parliament. They didn't lose anything this election. They simply were never bigger. ÖVP took from the nationalists. Before Kurz took over the ÖVP, the FPÖ had poll values close to 35% and the ÖVP around 20%.
Thank you. I was trying to draw similarities cause we seem to have similar left and similar far right, but the history of your rightwing/center right is quite different and it makes the comparison fail.
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So Kurz unites with the nationalists and has an anti-immigrant right/center-right coalition?
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I knew that the outcome would be blue and black, sadly. The last time we had that, nothing good came out of it. And I find the nationalistic talk I keep hearing more often extremely stupid.
I was born in Italy but grew up here and nobody could tell that I'm not from here apart for my name. Especially in bars the bragging about ones roots has become common. I am happy to indulge when inebriated but when you think about it sober it's really idiotic. I don't want this country to be full of xenophobic bigots like back then under the biggest arsehole of the 20th century.
I voted Pilz cause he was the most pragmatic of the bunch in my opinion and didn't spend any donated or tax payers money for campaigning. I am happy at least that he made it into the opposition. The green party completely lost it in the head by now, and Basti is basically a puppet who's at the front for marketing reasons. Young, determined, ambitious blabla. The socialists gave the impression of being a corrupt bunch.
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On October 16 2017 02:21 Danglars wrote:
So Kurz unites with the nationalists and has an anti-immigrant right/center-right coalition?
We'll see. There are other options. SPÖ could change to a right-wing hardliner and form a coalition with Kurz or just say fuck it, if the only way to govern is FPÖ, better fuck over Kurz and do it yourself. Unlikely, but possible.
Additionally there is the chance that no government can be formed. FPÖ might shit their pants for tactical reasons. Flying too close the ÖVP has always ended as a disaster for them.
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In Germany, today were the state elections in Niedersachen (Lower Saxony), which had a lot of eyes on them for multiple reasons:
- Niedersachen is the 2nd largest state by area, 4th largest by population
- It is the first election after the federal election, and naturally those results are connected and the election can be seen as feedback on the post election behaviour of the parties
- originally the election was scheduled for the beginning of next year, but a member of the Greens changed party to the CDU, which ruined the 1 seat majority of the SPD+Greens government, which triggered earlier reelections. This party change was due to an argument between her and the Green party about candidate lists for the upcoming election, in which she would have been dropped. CDU offered her a spot, she took it. You can imagine the reactions across the board to this.
- forecasts at first projected large losses for the SPD+Greens government, but after the federal election, especially the SPD picked up a lot
Voting closed 1,5 hours ago, and projections (they are usually highly accurate, you wont see more than 0.5% changes) so far say:
SPD 37.5%, +4.8%, 55 seats
CDU 34.5%, -1.5%, 50 seats
Greens 8.6%, -5.1%, 12 seats
FDP 7.2%, -2.7%, 10 seats
AfD 5.9%, +5.9%, 8 seats
Left 4.6%, +1.5%, no seats (failed 5% barrier)
Overall 135 seats.
Now this result actually has quite a lot to talk about:
- the SPD, who were seen at sub30% in Niedersachen only 6 weeks ago, now suddenly gained massively, becoming the biggest party for the first time in 19 years. It seems (and this is kinda surprising to me), that the people are really rewarding the quick and clear decision to opposition in the Bundestag. Also the current MP of Niedersachsen, Weil, has actually be seen very favorable my many, even those who disagreed with the government, unlike his CDU opponent, who never got any traction.
- the CDU result is a disaster. I already mentioned their faceless candidate Althusman, but blaming it all on him would be unfair. They actually suffered a lot from the negative image of their "takeover" of the Green MoP. And then, the federal CDU didn't do the state party any good either and neither Merkels behavior nor the CDU-CSU conflict/"solution" really bought them any favors.
- Greens and FDP did about as expected. Especially the Greens were considered by many as scapegoats of the last government and got punished. They tried to paint themselves as the victims of the MoP betrayal, but failed to reach people with that. From what I talked with people I felt that many considered the Greens to have their fair share of blame in the entire issue and it also raised a general question about whether there are more politicians who favor their career over their party values in the Green lineup which eroded trust.
- the AfD actually turned out surprisingly weak. They were expected at around 8%, which they also reached in the federal elections here in Niedersachsen. But their constant infighting probably cost them here.
- the left gained quite a bit (relatively) but still failed to make it in. Still, it can't be denied, that they are slowly reaching the western states. Expect them to beat the 5% in 4 years.
But now the key question: Who governs Niedersachen next?
Well... the answer is: I have no fucking clue. It is kinda amusing that if the results hold, the SPD+Green would again would lack 1 seat to form a government. That this would become even close to an option was considered unthinkable not too long ago. The left failed to make it in, which takes away the option of Red-Red-Green, which was actually not ruled out by the SPD, which really surprised me in a western state.
Next obvious answer would be: SPD+Green+FDP. This was repeatedly ruled out by the FDP, who focused their campaign on being against the Red/Green coalition.
One might argue that Niedersachen could copy the federal "solution" of CDU+FDP+Green. But now this is unthinkable due to the issues between CDU and Greens here, so you will certainly not see that either.
Leaves us with SPD+CDU as a big solution... But again, their campaigns here were way more polarized than the federal campaigns, and I doubt that the CDU, who expected to become the biggest party for the entire campaign, would suddenly be willing to become the minor partner.
So whats left? Honestly: Nothing. It has to become one of the unlikelies, unless some weird kind of minority government is formed, but I absolutely can't imagine this. Naturally it should be SPD+Green, who only lack 1 seat, but given that everyone else campaigned heavily and stopping this government, nobody could sell an acceptance of it now to their voters.
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And as I wrote this, some projections actually consider it possible that SPD+Green might get a 1 seat majority. I guess this will become a very long night.
This would be a huge slap in the face of the CDU. If they had waited simply for the elections in March, they would have beaten the government for sure. Them trying to shorten the governments life by half a year might have cost them the next 4 years.
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Germany3128 Posts
On October 16 2017 02:53 mahrgell wrote:
And as I wrote this, some projections actually consider it possible that SPD+Green might get a 1 seat majority. I guess this will become a very long night.
This would be a huge slap in the face of the CDU. If they had waited simply for the elections in March, they would have beaten the government for sure. Them trying to shorten the governments life by half a year might have cost them the next 4 years.
This is gonna be a long night  Do you know roughly when we'll get to know the final results? I liked the current government so I voted for them, though I'm not too happy with the result of the Greens. But in general I'm quite happy currently. Also AFD at only 6% is nice, too.
Edit: And just as I typed it RG is suddenly one seat short again
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On October 16 2017 03:01 TheNewEra wrote:Show nested quote +On October 16 2017 02:53 mahrgell wrote:
And as I wrote this, some projections actually consider it possible that SPD+Green might get a 1 seat majority. I guess this will become a very long night.
This would be a huge slap in the face of the CDU. If they had waited simply for the elections in March, they would have beaten the government for sure. Them trying to shorten the governments life by half a year might have cost them the next 4 years. This is gonna be a long night Do you know roughly when we'll get to know the final results? I liked the current government so I voted for them, though I'm not to happy with the result of the Greens. But in general I'm quite happy currently. Also AFD at only 6% is nice, too.
Last Niedersachsen election has the official results* at around midnight. But that was a quick one and other state elections also took until 3am.
* Preliminary official results, thus all ballots counted, the really official confirmation of the results happens days later.
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The CDU and Greens deserve a hit after that political stunt, that was one of the most opportunistic things I've seen in a long time in German politics. A little sad though that the FDP ruled out a spd/green coalition.
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Germany3128 Posts
On October 16 2017 03:17 Nyxisto wrote:
The CDU and Greens deserve a hit after that political stunt, that was one of the most opportunistic things I've seen in a long time in German politics. A little sad though that the FDP ruled out a spd/green coalition.
why would the Greens deserve a hit because of Twesten?
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Germany3128 Posts
I actually didn't know that. Huh, interesting. Yeah I get your criticism in that case.
"Fun fact": I never got why she actually got into the Landtag at all the last time. This makes it so much clearer. She was always known as a whacko and a general obnoxious person in my home Landkreis (where she lives and candidates). Before we've known who switched sides (the first hours after it happened) my father immediately said: "Probably Twesten. She's the type of person who would do something like this."
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yep really weak leadership. When someone threatens their own party with mutiny so that they can go on nice business trips it's probably time to tell them that their career is over.
Merkel was always very good at this. When someone tried to play her off the plank they went
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EPT
