European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 96

On April 13 2015 23:29 Oshuy wrote:


Partial quote is a bad quote.

I do not deny the working conditions in the German sector. I deny its impact on export management and specifically an assumed production cost advantage for Germany.

On April 13 2015 23:49 puerk wrote:
because they want to advance their own economic well being and lobby for their constituents

that shows in no way that german exports in general are founded on low wages, as was claimed

On 19 March 2013, the Belgian Ministers for Finance and Labour announced that they intended to file a complaint of social dumping against Germany with the Commission. The Ministers accuse Germany of ‘undignified practices’, especially in the meat-processing sector, the majority of whose workers are ‘seconded’ via employment agencies mainly from Bulgaria, Romania and Ukraine and who work for EUR 3 per hour, 60 hours a week, with no social security benefits.

The issues raised by the Belgian Ministers are known to the Commission, which noted these issues itself in its document SWD(2012) 63 dated 21 March 2012. According to that document, trade unions have reported that the meat-processing industry has few regular workers and that most are seconded from other countries and work under below-par working conditions, with an increased workload and long working hours, for wages which are much lower than for domestic workers (EUR 3 per hour). The Commission document does on to state that these practices date back to 2000 and that the lack of any sectoral agreements in the meat sector in Germany is hampering efforts to protect workers, which is why a minimum national wage is one of the basic demands of trade unions in the meat industry.

At the same time, articles in the German press (Spiegel) report that organisations of offshore property investment companies are exploiting Eastern European workers in Germany, by renting apartments to them in German towns at extortionate rents, for example EUR 700 for 30 square metres.

In view of the above, can the Commission state:

— Is Germany in breach of EC law or not? If it is, why has the Commission not taken steps to put a stop to this unacceptable situation, insofar as it knows exactly what is happening?
— If it is not in breach, does that mean that this social model is acceptable to the Commission? In that case, similar labour models could be adopted for the special economic zones proposed in Greece on which, in reply to my question (E-008429/2011), the Commission stated that that was an interesting idea which warranted serious examination.

On April 13 2015 23:55 Nyxisto wrote:
The meat industry here is pretty fucked up though, WhiteDog is right about that. It's so cheap that companies from the Benelux states are driving livestock to Germany, it gets slaughtered and processed here and driven back. That just doesn't make any sense.

I still don't think it's very relevant when it comes to Greece's problems on a macro scale. This particular industry is not exemplary of the economy as a whole.

On April 13 2015 23:57 Oshuy wrote:


Yes, that is exactly what I said, thanks Glad to see we agree.

On April 14 2015 00:38 Oshuy wrote:


Close ! The main point was that paying 3 times less (extreme case) is not sufficiant in the pig production to bring the German costs down enough to matter. If Germany relied on slave labor (did not pay its employees at all), the production cost for 1kg of fattened pig would still be higher in Germany than it is in France.

In the value chain, the impact of dumping is only visible in parts of the transformation process, specifically butchering as described in the article we both used as reference and as noted by Puerk. Notably, part of the transformation industry is subcontracted to Germany from the neighbouring countries to benefit from these low costs.

Which brings you down to a small share of a global pork industry that makes up 0,36% of global German exports in the first place. Meaning that no, social dumping (which no one denied exists) cannot be identified as a significant factor in German export balance statistics.

On April 14 2015 00:56 Oshuy wrote:


You have the figures in one of the links above. 2011/2012 German cost for 1kg is ~1,50€, out of which ~0,15€ are labor costs. French costs are ~1,35€, including ~0,18€ labor costs. Stop paying your employees in Germany : you only catch up

On April 14 2015 00:57 Simberto wrote:


Without statistics that point is neither wrong or silly. If the labour cost is an insignificant part of the cost of producing pork, than increases or decreases in that area will also not be majorly important, no matter how large their are.

Since i don't have actual statistics, here is a made-up one just to illustrate the point i am making. If the cost of producing pork was only 1% labor, and 99% stuff like food, facilities, piglets and whatever else, decreasing the labor cost to 1/3 would only reduce the total cost of the pig production by 0.7%.

Thus, that claim is neither obviously wrong nor obviously right without the information as too how much of the cost of pig production is labor, and how much are other factors.

Of course, this does not even get close to the main problem with industrial meat production that was mentioned earlier, which is mostly that it is disgusting, destroys nature, and is generally a horrifying practice. But that is mostly a byproduct of consumers being interested in how cheap the meat is, and not caring a lot about any other factors. That is what leads to industrial farming, and nothing is going to protect your small farms from that, because there is no way they will ever produce as cheaply as an industrialized farm. The only thing that could change that is a largescale change in priorities of the consumers, leading to a willingness to pay more for products from a different type of production, or just being able to live with smaller amounts of meat in their daily diet.

(Reuters) - Opposition Labour leader Ed Miliband tried to overturn a damaging perception his party cannot be trusted on the economy, unveiling a manifesto he said showed it had the most responsible plan to manage Britain's finances.

In a speech tackling what experts say is one of Labour's greatest electoral weaknesses, Miliband sought to reverse his party's low ratings for economic credibility, an area where Prime Minister David Cameron's Conservatives have long led.

"Over the last four and a half years, I have been tested," Miliband told supporters in the northern English city of Manchester, a traditional stronghold.

"Tested for the extraordinary privilege of leading this country. I am ready."

Britain is facing its most unpredictable election since the 1970s on May 7 and most polls show Labour and the Conservatives neck-and-neck. Both are furiously trying to say or do something to break that deadlock.

At stake is more than simply who will govern the $2.8 trillion economy: Cameron has promised a referendum on European Union membership while Scottish nationalists, who want Scotland's independence, are seeking a kingmaker position.

In power from 1997-2010, Labour was in charge at the time of the global financial crisis and left Britain with its biggest peacetime deficit since World War Two. Cameron's party, which has presided over a strong recovery, has repeatedly portrayed Labour as the party that crashed the economy.

But Miliband, in bullish mood, said Labour had learnt the lessons from the crisis and could balance the books in a fairer way than the Conservatives, while remaining fiscally prudent.

"You want Labour values and a new start but you ask whether we can be responsible with our nation's finances," he said.

"This is a plan to change our country. It is a manifesto which shows Labour is not only the party of change but the party of responsibility too."

(Reuters) - Euro zone officials were shocked at Greece's failure to outline plans for structural reforms at last week's talks in Brussels, a German newspaper on Saturday cited participants as saying, adding the Greek representative behaved like a "taxi driver".

A meeting of deputy finance ministers on Thursday gave Athens a six working day deadline to present revised economic reform plans before euro zone finance ministers meet on April 24 to consider unlocking emergency funding to keep Greece afloat.

Euro zone sources told the Frankfurter Allgemeine Sonntagszeitung that they were disappointed and shocked at Athens' lack of movement in its plans, and in particular its reluctance to talk about cutting civil servants' pensions.

The mood between Greece's leftist government and its euro zone partners, especially Germany, has deteriorated in the last few weeks, with personal recriminations flying between ministers and calls from Athens for Berlin to pay war reparations.

The paper said at last week's meeting the Greek representative just asked where the money was "like a taxi driver", according to sources, and insisted his country would soon be bankrupt.

The euro zone sources told the paper that Greece's creditors do not believe this is the case and that it would be a domestic political issue if Athens is unable to fully pay salaries and pensions.

The paper also said that German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schaeuble, who has taken a tough line toward Greece in bailout talks, would have to get the Bundestag lower house of parliament to vote on any fundamental changes to the reform program.