|
Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action. |
On April 13 2015 21:23 phil.ipp wrote:
right now steps are made in germany to fight the low wage sector, "Mindestlohn" !
obviously that will hurt the export.
the mindestlohn is already in effect, and changed nothing with regards to export because it is still very low, and manufacturing for export paid well above the current minimum wage before anyway
|
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Plus, in the field were wage are not low in comparaison to other european nations, part of the production is made outside, in low wages european countries.
And finally services impact positively on productivity.
And germany is also Greece's first trading partner.
|
|
|
On April 13 2015 21:29 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 21:23 phil.ipp wrote:
right now steps are made in germany to fight the low wage sector, "Mindestlohn" !
obviously that will hurt the export. the mindestlohn is already in effect, and changed nothing with regards to export because it is still very low, and manufacturing for export paid well above the current minimum wage before anyway
yeah since 3 months, whats your point? you think you can see an economic impact after 3 months?
that was just an example how things turn now into the other direction, this will definitely not be the last change. the better the working conditions are, the worse you will be in competitions with other low wage countrys like china.
its just a trend i pointed out, im not saying germany will be broke at the end of the year.
|
On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much.
|
On April 13 2015 20:49 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 20:22 phil.ipp wrote:
germany has an extrem export surplus, which is bought with a big low wage sector - so i dont know about "rise to economic greatness".
the export surplus means that other countrys, like greece and other small countrys have a deficit.
and now you can guess who pays the most to pull these countrys out of the hole.
exactly germany.
so germany made money with the export on the back of its own population (low wage sector), and now it spends all that money to save the countrys who they need to export to.
I don't get it. Germany's producing of goods the world wants and wants to pay for is to blame for the poverty in Greece and similar countries, so Germany should hurry up and make itself less competitive so other countries also stand a chance? Doesn't this way of thinking make the mistake of seeing economic activity as something that happens in a vacuum and is not at all affected by government policy or cultural factors? Isn't Greece's main creditor Finland instead of Germany, though? Of course, it's a bit more difficult to accuse Finland of wanting a fourth economic "Reich".
Finland the main creditor of Greece, what? Each EZ country is a creditor depending on their shareholder% on EFSF these days (I think, didn't really look it up but it's along these lines). Germany and France are the biggest creditors, then Italy.
edit: In fact Finland was so non noteworthy that it could argue for extra insurance for its own 2012 bilateral loans made to Greece and not blow the whole PSI deal up. They're in the news because they're a German satellite that barks a whole lot (domestically the nationalistic True Finns are a big problem, see), unlike, say, the Netherlands.
|
On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much.
+ Show Spoiler +
Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false.
|
On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false.
I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry.
|
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves.
|
On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry.
I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only.
Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important.
On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves.
Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture.
|
On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture.
Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one.
|
On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one.
Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol
And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone.
Here are the detail of Germany's exports, even services are important too. Just because volkwagen is more known doesn't mean germany only has volkswagen, BMW and whatnot.
![[image loading]](https://www.destatis.de/EN/Publications/STATmagazin/NationalAccounts/_graphic/ImportExport.gif?__blob=poster)
|
On April 13 2015 22:25 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one. Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone.
Are you seriously suggestion that countries who are competitive in something should handicap themselves so others might have a chance as well?
What an odd logic.
|
On April 13 2015 22:45 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:25 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one. Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone. Are you seriously suggestion that countries who are competitive in something should handicap themselves so others might have a chance as well? What an odd logic.
Are you seriously implying that a country who happens to be less competitive than another country should accept to trade and lose its industry in a competition with that more competitive country ?
What an odd logic.
|
On April 13 2015 22:54 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:45 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2015 22:25 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one. Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone. Are you seriously suggestion that countries who are competitive in something should handicap themselves so others might have a chance as well? What an odd logic. Are you seriously implying that a country who is less competitive than another country should accept to trade and lose its industry in a competition with that more competitive country ? What an odd logic.
No, what I am saying is that it is pointless to fight a war you cannot win, or to put it in marketing terms, to try to compete while you have nothing competitive to offer. It is not as if Germany is some kind of "superproducer of everything". There are plenty of products they do not produce. You won't see many countries try to and actually can compete with France when it comes to wine and cheese either. Or affordable cars (Renault-Dacia and Peugeot have that market on a lockdown). Should we tell France to handicap their wine and cheese industry in order to give Greece a fighting chance with feta, goat cheese and retsina? Or to handicap their car production so Skoda or Fiat can gain some market share?
|
On April 13 2015 23:02 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:54 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:45 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2015 22:25 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:31 WhiteDog wrote:
That's a lie puerk. The min wage has been almost forced on germany in part because european countries were bored on germany's social dumping. Just because workers are well paid in specific industries (cars) doesn't mean all sector prone to exports have decent wage : in the food industry, the wages were half that of the french for exemple.
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much. + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one. Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone. Are you seriously suggestion that countries who are competitive in something should handicap themselves so others might have a chance as well? What an odd logic. Are you seriously implying that a country who is less competitive than another country should accept to trade and lose its industry in a competition with that more competitive country ? What an odd logic. No, what I am saying is that it is pointless to fight a war you cannot win, or to put it in marketing terms, to try to compete while you have nothing competitive to offer. It is not as if Germany is some kind of "superproducer of everything". There are plenty of products they do not produce. You won't see many countries try to and actually can compete with France when it comes to wine and cheese either. Or affordable cars (Renault-Dacia and Peugeot have that market on a lockdown). Should we tell France to handicap their wine and cheese industry in order to give Greece a fighting chance with feta, goat cheese and retsina? Or to handicap their car production so Skoda or Fiat can gain some market share?
You don't understand : for what reason does a country should accept to fight this war it cannot win ? What prevent a state from protecting itself ? Your reasonning has many wholes...
Competition has value only if it structure by a set a law. For trade to be mutually beneficial, just like ANY market, you need rules (and the european commission knows it perfectly) : you must prevent monopoly, you must prevent the over investment in field that create negative externalities, or under investment in fields with positive externalities, etc.
Low wages are exactly the same, from a competitive standpoint it is always beneficial to pay the least, with no job security or health assurance, but if a country goes for this strategy, it virtually force the others to do the same (to be competitive), even if from a pure economically point of view it is a wrong move : in economy, we call that a nash equilibrium. The best situation (the pareto equilibrium) is not the nash equilibrium, but the nash equilibrium is the best possible situation taking into considering what the others do.
|
On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:
I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only.
Errr ... close to none ? 
Germany also has, thanks to its salary policy, the second european highest production cost for its pork. Main problems in the pork industry would be environmental impacts, overproduction, losing battle between production and distribution, ... Currently, production costs are higher than sell prices, which makes the situation a bit difficult.
Good luck finding a pork producer in any country that would blame German costs, let alone German wages on their difficulties.
|
close to none ?
Lol, tell that to the french pork industry in Bretagne. Talk about another Nash equilibrium : northern europe production process involve a huge number of pork / animals in a closed and rather small space to maximize productivity (with huge negative effect on nature and also on our soul but that's secondary right ?). Altho those "farm" are not really beneficial without any state help, it is still so productive that this production process is being imposed in France, against the smaller and artisanal french farms. The milk industry is also in the same kind of situation.
So yes, it has PLENTY of impact on europe agriculture. In France, it is talked about a lot (the last being the debate around the "farm of the 1000 cows").
Seriously, you are very ignorant on what is happening in europe. Even the danish were whining on Germany's production process in the food industry...
Germany: Social dumping in the meat industry – meeting with the minister
http://www.precarious-work.eu/en/news/germany-social-dumping-meat-industry-–-meeting-minister
|
On April 13 2015 23:06 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 23:02 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2015 22:54 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:45 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2015 22:25 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 21:48 Oshuy wrote:
[quote]
Food industry is not a German export sector, car industry is. As stated above, the expected impact in Germany is mainly on services, which will probably not affect exports that much.
+ Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one. Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone. Are you seriously suggestion that countries who are competitive in something should handicap themselves so others might have a chance as well? What an odd logic. Are you seriously implying that a country who is less competitive than another country should accept to trade and lose its industry in a competition with that more competitive country ? What an odd logic. No, what I am saying is that it is pointless to fight a war you cannot win, or to put it in marketing terms, to try to compete while you have nothing competitive to offer. It is not as if Germany is some kind of "superproducer of everything". There are plenty of products they do not produce. You won't see many countries try to and actually can compete with France when it comes to wine and cheese either. Or affordable cars (Renault-Dacia and Peugeot have that market on a lockdown). Should we tell France to handicap their wine and cheese industry in order to give Greece a fighting chance with feta, goat cheese and retsina? Or to handicap their car production so Skoda or Fiat can gain some market share? You don't understand : for what reason does a country should accept to fight this war it cannot win ? What prevent a state from protecting itself ?
For now EU legislation prevents member states to do just that. You might as well abolish the EU if you let every member state reinstate tariffs, subsidies or outright boycotts.
It would also invariably favour the richer member states over the poorer ones, because why bother letting that Romanian construction worker work here for €10 per hour if you can have your people do the job for €25 per hour minus subsidies.
Of course, the state would have to find a financial source for all those subsidies - people will not look kindly on price and tax increases - on top of the money it needs to sustain an extensive welfare state. Since venality (the selling of government offices to rich people) is no longer an option in a democratic nation, and countries no longer have colonies to exploit for low-wage/free labour, this seems kind of problematic to me.
|
On April 13 2015 23:17 maartendq wrote:Show nested quote +On April 13 2015 23:06 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 23:02 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2015 22:54 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:45 maartendq wrote:On April 13 2015 22:25 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:21 puerk wrote:On April 13 2015 22:11 WhiteDog wrote:On April 13 2015 22:07 Oshuy wrote:On April 13 2015 21:58 WhiteDog wrote:[quote] + Show Spoiler +Germany is second only to the US in pork export. Just because you don't know does not make it false. I know, I looked up the figures before replying. This "second only to the US" is 0,36% of the German exports. Therefore not impactful in comparison to the 12% of car industry. I don't know where to start with this ? 0.36 of the German exports, but SECOND IN THE WHOLE WORLD. Do you understand the impact Germany's wage policy in the pork industry can have on other countries pork industry ? And secondly it's 0.36 % for the pork industry only. Just because pork are less expensive than cars, it does not make it less important. On April 13 2015 22:10 puerk wrote:
nono you dont understand he posted a graph of 1,5 billion dollars! that is a huge number, so obviously germany is an agrarian nation, built upon exporting food, harvested by wage slaves. Cry me river. Germany is huge in the food industry (production, processing and foodservices). "Food" is not restricted to agriculture. Calling you out on constantly shifting the goalposts is not crying. Germany has many troubling issues, but low wages in its manufacturing for export, are not one. Tell that to the foreign industries that faced low wage coming from germany, like in the food industry ? For you, the second biggest agricultural economy in europe is nothing. Please. La folie des grandeurs : Just because it's not a big number it's not worth quoting right ? lol And yes it's crying. Everybody does it when they have no argument and just wants to ridicule something or someone. Are you seriously suggestion that countries who are competitive in something should handicap themselves so others might have a chance as well? What an odd logic. Are you seriously implying that a country who is less competitive than another country should accept to trade and lose its industry in a competition with that more competitive country ? What an odd logic. No, what I am saying is that it is pointless to fight a war you cannot win, or to put it in marketing terms, to try to compete while you have nothing competitive to offer. It is not as if Germany is some kind of "superproducer of everything". There are plenty of products they do not produce. You won't see many countries try to and actually can compete with France when it comes to wine and cheese either. Or affordable cars (Renault-Dacia and Peugeot have that market on a lockdown). Should we tell France to handicap their wine and cheese industry in order to give Greece a fighting chance with feta, goat cheese and retsina? Or to handicap their car production so Skoda or Fiat can gain some market share? You don't understand : for what reason does a country should accept to fight this war it cannot win ? What prevent a state from protecting itself ? For now EU legislation prevents member states to do just that. You might as well abolish the EU if you let every member state reinstate tariffs, subsidies or outright boycotts. It would also invariably favour the richer member states over the poorer ones, because why bother letting that Romanian construction worker work here for €10 per hour if you can have your people do the job for €25 per hour minus subsidies. Of course, the state would have to find a financial source for all those subsidies - people will not look kindly on price and tax increases - on top of the money it needs to sustain an extensive welfare state. Since venality (the selling of government offices to rich people) is no longer an option in a democratic nation, and countries no longer have colonies to exploit for low-wage/free labour, this seems kind of problematic to me.
That's exactly the point, if you don't regulate competition, countries will be forced to end the european trade union under popular pressure. It's already happening, look who's the french european deputee, it's 50 % national front.
|
|
|
|
|
|
![[image loading]](http://cdn4.spiegel.de/images/image-559857-galleryV9-pddr.jpg)
10607
4886
3262
EPT
