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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
warding
Profile Joined August 2005
Portugal2395 Posts
October 05 2017 09:11 GMT
#19161
While Catalan is more distant from Portuguese than Spanish, it can be easier for a portuguese to understand spoken Catalan - mostly due to the speed and f'd up way the Spanish handle their consonants. On the other hand, written Spanish is easier to understand than Catalan. While in Barcelona hardly anyone would speak to me in Catalan though.

Meanwhile Galician is pretty close to portuguese and latin American Spanish is way easier to understand than Iberian Spanish.
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18278 Posts
October 05 2017 16:40 GMT
#19162
On October 05 2017 16:40 Godwrath wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2017 03:49 Liquid`Drone wrote:
How different is Catalan from Spanish? more or less similar than spanish and portuguese?

Spoken i found it less similar imo, but barely.

To be fair, the vocabulary of Portuguese is probably closer to Spanish than Catalan is to Spanish. However, spoken they both pronounce things very differently from Spanish, and in fact, Catalan *sounds* more like Portuguese than like Spanish (it isn't though, they are both closer to Spanish than they are to one another, as my girlfriend can attest to when she was trying to speak Catalan to people all the time in Brazil).

But that as an aside. This independence train is zooming ahead at full speed, consequences be damned. It's not good.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10877 Posts
October 05 2017 16:43 GMT
#19163
At this point it seems like all parties are trying to act as stupid as possible. Kudos to the UK for handling it way better.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 05 2017 17:13 GMT
#19164
Spain’s constitutional court has moved to stop the Catalan government making a unilateral declaration of independence by suspending the regional parliament session in which the results of Sunday’s referendum were due to be discussed.

On Thursday, the court upheld a challenge by Catalonia’s Socialist party – which opposes secession from Spain – ruling that allowing the Catalan parliament to meet on Monday and potentially declare independence would violate the rights of the party’s MPs.

The court warned that any session carried out in defiance of its ban would be “null”, and added that the parliament’s leaders could face criminal action if they ignored the court order.

In a televised address on Wednesday evening, Puigdemont said his government was planning to take the results of the referendum to the Catalan parliament over the next few days.

The Catalan government is understood to be meeting to discuss its response to the latest move by the court. It has previously ignored the constitutional court’s rulings, not least its order to suspend the referendum itself.

“Suspending a plenary that hasn’t yet been called must be the new approach to dialogue,” Carme Forcadell, president of the Catalan parliament, wrote on Twitter.

In a television address on Wednesday evening, the Catalan president, Carles Puigdemont, repeated his calls for mediation and dialogue with the Spanish government, but said the results of the vote would be put before parliament. “On Sunday we had a referendum under the most difficult circumstances and set an example of who we are,” he said. “Peace and accord is part of who we are. We have to apply the results of the referendum. We have to present the results of the referendum to parliament.”

Speaking ahead of Thursday’s court decision, the Spanish prime minister, Mariano Rajoy, said the situation would only escalate further if the Catalan government carried on the path of a unilateral declaration. “Is there a solution? Yes, there is,” Rajoy told the Spanish news agency Efe. “And the best one would be a return to legality and the swiftest possible confirmation that there won’t be a unilateral independence declaration, because that way still greater harm could be avoided.”

Thursday’s court ruling raises the question of how the Spanish state will respond if Catalans decide to push ahead with Monday’s session.

The Madrid government has refused to rule out invoking article 155 of the constitution. The article, which has never been used, makes provision for the central government to step in and take control of an autonomous region if it “does not fulfil the obligations imposed upon it by the constitution or other laws, or acts in a way that is seriously prejudicial to the general interest of Spain”.

However, given the heightened tensions in Catalonia and the huge protests seen across the region this week, the move could prove counterproductive, and Puigdemont has already warned that the the triggering of the article would be the Spanish government’s “ultimate mistake”.

The Catalan government says that hundreds of people were injured on Sunday after Spanish police attempted to halt the independence referendum by raiding polling stations, beating voters and firing rubber bullets at crowds.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
Acrofales
Profile Joined August 2010
Spain18278 Posts
October 05 2017 20:10 GMT
#19165
Given that the Catalan parliament has already claimed that the constitution is outdated and doesn't afford Catalans their natural right, this won't do much. Unilaterally declaring independence was already declared as being unconstitutional, but Puigdemont still insists he's goingto do it... so that declaration won't do much. What I think might have a real affect on putting a break on Puigdemont, or at least put quite a dink in his support is the economic argument. Catalan banks are leaving Catalunya, starting with Banco Sabadell already approving a move to Alicante and CaixaBank (one of the largest banks of Spain) expected to approve a move to Palma tomorrow. That will hit Catalans in their pockets (or at least, in their tax collections) and they aren't doing it due to not supporting the movement, but due to a need to protect both their clients (from a run on the bank due to whatever happens to the Catalan economic situation after a unilateral declaration of independence and questions about whether their (our) money will still be in Euros, or whatever toilet paper currency Catalunya comes up with. And of course, their shareholders also don't want the bank going bankrupt. So there's sound economic reasons for financial institutions to start getting the hell out of dodge, and if that doesn't scare some sense into Catalans, then I fear nothing will (Catalans are also super famous for being extremely cautious about spending/losing money).

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-04/catalan-depositors-torn-on-who-to-bank-with-amid-secession-fears
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
October 06 2017 07:31 GMT
#19166
9 days until the election in Austria, our social-democrats are doing their best to lose as high as possible.

After hiring a dirty campaigning specialist, said specialist has been arrested for financial affairs in Israel. Fake Websites that have been created under his control against the conservative candidate have been revealed as SPÖ propaganda, possibly by a double-agent. Their attacks on KTM oligarch and conservative donor Stefan Pierer for wacky tax constructions are being turned against them by the conservative finance ministry which approved those tax constructions. Their confrontation course against one of our most stupid boulevard papers which was publishing fake interviews with social-democrats is being turned against them by conservative and liberal papers alike, titeling that the chancellor is a "princess".

Green-Left, Greens, liberals and soc-dems are polling around 35% combined, with the 3 former ones all close to elimination.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6272 Posts
October 06 2017 08:58 GMT
#19167
The Netherlands probably has a new coalition government between VVD (liberal conservatives), CDA (Christian conservative right), CU (Christian left) and D66 (social liberals).

Monday we'll probably know more. These are at least some points whcih are already leaked:

Reduction of 4 income brackets to two:
From 36,55%, 40,8%, 40,8% and 52% to 37% and 49%.

Reduction of mortgage interest rate reduction to a maximum of 37%. This was already planned but it'll go faster now. The maximum is 49,5% at the moment and it was supposed to go down to 37% in 2043. Now it'll go down to 37% in 2023.

Reduction of the eigenwoningforfait. EWF is the profit you make on the house you live in. It's entirely fictional but it get's added on your taxable income.

1,5 billion euro extra to defense (Which is really necessary, our army got reduced to nothing really. They can't even properly replace ammo and such at the moment).

Higher VAT and energy taxes.

Reduction of the corporate tax rate from 25% to 21% and for profits below 200k from 20% to 16%.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
October 06 2017 14:01 GMT
#19168
Denmark looks set to become the next European country to restrict the burqa and the niqab, worn by some Muslim women, after most parties in the Danish parliament backed some sort of ban on facial coverings.

Full and partial face veils such as burqas and niqabs divide opinion across Europe, setting advocates of religious freedom against secularists and those who argue that such garments are culturally alien or a symbol of the oppression of women.

The niqab covers everything but the eyes, while the burqa also covers the eyes with a transparent veil.

France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Bulgaria and the German state of Bavaria have all imposed some restrictions on the wearing of full-face veils in public places.

"This is not a ban on religious clothing, this is a ban on masking," Jacob Ellemann-Jensen, spokesman for the Liberal Party, told reporters on Friday after his party, the largest in the coalition government, decided to back a ban.

This would effectively mean a ban on the niqab and the burqa, he added. Around 200 women in Denmark wear such garments, according to researchers.

The three-party centre-right minority government, its ally the Danish People's Party and the main opposition Social Democrats have all said they are in favour of a ban, though they are still discussing how the ban should be designed and enforced.

"There will come a masking ban in Denmark. That's how it is," Foreign Minister Anders Samuelsen said on Facebook.
His party, the Liberal Alliance, had previously been one of the staunchest opponents of a ban, saying it limited people's ability to freely choose their attire, but has now aligned its stance with that of the other coalition parties, the Conservatives and the Liberals.

"So if it is practically possible to have such a ban without betraying ourselves or our own values, then the Liberal Alliance will vote for it," Samuelsen said.

The Social Democrats, Denmark's biggest party, has also signalled support in principle for a ban on garments such as the burqa, which it said oppressed women.

"We are ready to ban the burqa if that is what it takes ... But there are some dilemmas, not least with regards to how such a ban would be enforced," said the Social Democrats' leader Mette Fredriksen during a debate in parliament on Thursday.

Norway's government in June proposed a ban on face-covering Muslim veils in kindergartens, schools and universities.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
sc-darkness
Profile Joined August 2017
856 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-07 21:59:07
October 07 2017 21:58 GMT
#19169
New vodka Catalonia. You drink till you're split. On the next day you feel like you're beaten. :D

There's some element of "lost in translation" but it's much cooler in my language.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-08 20:47:44
October 08 2017 20:44 GMT
#19170
@Burka Ban: Austria has one since last week. So far they've warned bikers that wore scarfs against the cold ("because it isn't cold enough for that yet") and we have had a discussion whether Halloween masks are allowed ("because they are not part of "our" tradition, which is a requirement for wearing costumes out in the open now").

Also some participants of the "Traditional Clowns March", an approved demonstration in front of the parliament against the ban that made fun of one of the information flyers that showed Clowns masks as part of the Austrian tradition, which is therefore OK to wear in public, have still been reported by the police.

Edit: Oh, I forgot. A shark mascot for "McShark", an apple reseller that opened a new shop, has to pay a fine as well. Obviously if you are wearing a shark mask you must be a terrorist!
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
October 08 2017 20:58 GMT
#19171
At least they're ridiculously targeting everyone and not just racial profiling themselves through time.
passive quaranstream fan
Liquid`Drone
Profile Joined September 2002
Norway28789 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-08 21:14:56
October 08 2017 21:14 GMT
#19172
I do wonder how that's gonna work out in Norway. During winter, some people actually do wear balaclavas. Back when I was paperboying I did so myself. Any burka ban, seeing as it's supposedly not targeting muslims, will be phrased as a 'not allowed to conceal your identity' law.

Like balaclavas aren't common, but there are probably 100+ times more norwegians wearing them than there are people wearing burkas.
Moderator
TheDwf
Profile Joined November 2011
France19747 Posts
October 08 2017 21:24 GMT
#19173
On October 09 2017 05:44 Big J wrote:
@Burka Ban: Austria has one since last week. So far they've warned bikers that wore scarfs against the cold ("because it isn't cold enough for that yet") and we have had a discussion whether Halloween masks are allowed ("because they are not part of "our" tradition, which is a requirement for wearing costumes out in the open now").

Also some participants of the "Traditional Clowns March", an approved demonstration in front of the parliament against the ban that made fun of one of the information flyers that showed Clowns masks as part of the Austrian tradition, which is therefore OK to wear in public, have still been reported by the police.

Edit: Oh, I forgot. A shark mascot for "McShark", an apple reseller that opened a new shop, has to pay a fine as well. Obviously if you are wearing a shark mask you must be a terrorist!

We truly live in idiocracies...
sc-darkness
Profile Joined August 2017
856 Posts
October 08 2017 21:33 GMT
#19174
Just ban burka only and stop beating around the bush.
Artisreal
Profile Joined June 2009
Germany9235 Posts
October 08 2017 21:35 GMT
#19175
On October 09 2017 06:33 sc-darkness wrote:
Just ban burka only and stop beating around the bush.

The equality act doesn't really work that way though.
passive quaranstream fan
Simberto
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Germany11816 Posts
October 08 2017 22:09 GMT
#19176
On October 09 2017 06:14 Liquid`Drone wrote:
I do wonder how that's gonna work out in Norway. During winter, some people actually do wear balaclavas. Back when I was paperboying I did so myself. Any burka ban, seeing as it's supposedly not targeting muslims, will be phrased as a 'not allowed to conceal your identity' law.

Like balaclavas aren't common, but there are probably 100+ times more norwegians wearing them than there are people wearing burkas.


Yeah, i remember skying in Norway in winter. There is no way that you can do that without covering your face, or your face will just freeze off.
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
October 08 2017 22:22 GMT
#19177
We have such law and it excludes everyone except the burkas, without really saying that. It says that clothing that conceals the face is forbiden unless it's:
part of the person's profession;
for health reasons;
in the context of sporting, cultural, educational or other similar events, when carried by the participants and of a temporary nature.
And it's allowed in the temples(churches, mosques etc.) of all registered(allowed) religions.

I know that the law makes the work of the Border police a lot easier, especially on the turkish border. Other than that though, it's pretty useless. I haven't seen or heard of anyone fined according to that law... Maybe because we don't have any burkas, lol.
sc-darkness
Profile Joined August 2017
856 Posts
Last Edited: 2017-10-08 22:30:08
October 08 2017 22:26 GMT
#19178
On October 09 2017 07:22 Pr0wler wrote:
We have such law and it excludes everyone except the burkas, without really saying that. It says that clothing that conceals the face is forbiden unless it's:
part of the person's profession;
for health reasons;
in the context of sporting, cultural, educational or other similar events, when carried by the participants and of a temporary nature.
And it's allowed in the temples(churches, mosques etc.) of all registered(allowed) religions.

I know that the law makes the work of the Border police a lot easier, especially on the turkish border. Other than that though, it's pretty useless. I haven't seen or heard of anyone fined according to that law... Maybe because we don't have any burkas, lol.


Edit: Actually, burka isn't that common indeed. I think niqab should also be banned though.
Deleted User 26513
Profile Joined February 2007
2376 Posts
October 08 2017 22:32 GMT
#19179
On October 09 2017 07:26 sc-darkness wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 09 2017 07:22 Pr0wler wrote:
We have such law and it excludes everyone except the burkas, without really saying that. It says that clothing that conceals the face is forbiden unless it's:
part of the person's profession;
for health reasons;
in the context of sporting, cultural, educational or other similar events, when carried by the participants and of a temporary nature.
And it's allowed in the temples(churches, mosques etc.) of all registered(allowed) religions.

I know that the law makes the work of the Border police a lot easier, especially on the turkish border. Other than that though, it's pretty useless. I haven't seen or heard of anyone fined according to that law... Maybe because we don't have any burkas, lol.


Edit: Actually, burka isn't that common indeed. I think niqab should also be banned though.

Well, when I say burka I mean both... The difference is not that big and both fall in the same category as far as the law is concerned.
Big J
Profile Joined March 2011
Austria16289 Posts
October 08 2017 22:57 GMT
#19180
If you want a burka ban then ban the burka. If you can't then maybe ask yourself why you can't (1) and if you feel like it is that important (2) make the effort. Everything else is idiotic to begin with. If science would act as stupid as our legislative organs we would still be living in caves.

(1) It's privileges to churches which do include freedom of religion and run under that title but which are far from limited to that, which would have to be toned down to a secular level. That is not in the interest of the same political parties vocally spreading islamophobia while preaching and subventing christian traditions.

(2) It's not unless you want to prevent 5* hotels making some money. Coming to think about it, this might be a supertiny contribution against climate change.
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