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On May 04 2017 19:10 lastpuritan wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 12:38 a_flayer wrote:I looked into it and they already work jobs in Norwegian prisons. That seems like an appropriate solution. Nothing wrong with that. https://www.theguardian.com/society/2013/feb/25/norwegian-prison-inmates-treated-like-peopleOne of the prisoners (a drug smuggler) works as the ferryman to transport people to and from the island prison. Others (rapists, murderers) do farming, husbandry, woodworking (with chainsaws), etc. They live together in houses, cook their own foods, go to work, etc. They live normal lives but in prison and without liberty. Doesn't seem like slavery to me. When said Breivik is harming society people usually think his lifetime cost to the public I'm worried about, but I all care he's not getting any kind of punishment besides being life-time sentenced in a flat. Maybe it's a big punishment in your culture, I can't know, but again, if he killed my relatives, given the two options, one is the current punishment, and second he's forced to plant trees in the name of the victims, or tailing coats for homeless for their memory, I would pick the second. The other prisoners may have right to refuse the service and sit all day, like drug dealers and burglars, but not the mass murderers, I don't care his will, that's the punishment, you don't usually pick the punishment you get, right? If you're discontent about the idea of brieivik being "forced" you can offer someting in return, extra meals, hd porn, I don't know? These things are not always black & white, if you call that slavery, you can easily link many state related issues to modern slavery which leftists generally do.
Which is why you don't get to decide when you are emotionally attached to the case.
Not to mention that you don't bear the cost for the punishment, so why would you get to decide?
Except for military service, which is explicitely mentioned as legal slavery in the international framework, there is no legal slavery. However the principle of forced labor is not as black and white.
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On May 04 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:Le Pen acted really weird in the debate. She's actually not that great of a populist at all. Also what was this + Show Spoiler +Is she trying to win the election with ... magic?
I knew it, she's a sith lord!!
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On May 04 2017 20:14 Biff The Understudy wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:Le Pen acted really weird in the debate. She's actually not that great of a populist at all. Also what was this + Show Spoiler +Is she trying to win the election with ... magic? I knew it, she's a sith lord!!
Darth Jar-Jar? :D
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Norway28794 Posts
On May 04 2017 01:46 lastpuritan wrote:
Is Breivik still living a luxury life? Last time I checked he had his own flat with TV + Library + GYM + and game console. What a punishment that is, while millions of refugees are constantly denied entrance to the western world. I bet many Syrian refugees would agree to live in his cell, let's trade.
Lol luxury life. He lives in isolation and has no freedom. Ability to talk to other people and control your own destiny are far more valuable to quality of life than any of the material goods Breivik has present, except food and water.
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On May 04 2017 23:32 Liquid`Drone wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 01:46 lastpuritan wrote:
Is Breivik still living a luxury life? Last time I checked he had his own flat with TV + Library + GYM + and game console. What a punishment that is, while millions of refugees are constantly denied entrance to the western world. I bet many Syrian refugees would agree to live in his cell, let's trade. Lol luxury life. He lives in isolation and has no freedom. Ability to talk to other people and control your own destiny are far more valuable to quality of life than any of the material goods Breivik has present, except food and water.
Then by your standard, just deprieve him of everything he got but food and water, and it will change nothing to his punishment since it's anyway nothing before the fact that he is denied social contacts and all.
And so everyone's happy since I wouldnt like my taxes to be used like that for a sub human shit like him (it's applicable as well to our own terrorists in my country tho).
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On May 04 2017 18:09 SkrollK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:Le Pen acted really weird in the debate. She's actually not that great of a populist at all. Also what was this + Show Spoiler +Is she trying to win the election with ... magic? Honestly, that moment was... Embarassing. For her, but also for me, because I actually live in a country where a woman (?) like her has a chance amongst two to be elected president of all the French people. I'm a little disabused and ashamed to see what we made of our great and beautiful country. To think that nearly a quarter of the electing people in France actually voted for her... I mean, I hate politics, not the discipline, but the professional decadent people running it in France (and pretty much elsewhere...) But, to think that a clown (not even a clown, she's not even funny) like her could be elected fucking president, it makes me wants to puke. (to non french people, in the gif she tried to use some theatral moves, intonation and langage to discredit Macron, but she splendidely failed and is Just This morning the laughing stock of french netizien)
You have to see the positive side: She is not yet president. Other states already failed and have a moron as the head of state, France can still avoid that.
I sincerely wish you the best of luck !!
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Norway28794 Posts
What? Say I think life quality is on a 0-100 scale. Then I think without food and water, you quickly drop towards 0. Maybe I think his current situation is like, 10. And I think if he had freedom and ability to interact with people, he'd go to 50. If you remove video games and a gym, he drops to 4. I think 10 is more than sufficient punishment and that there's no point in bringing him down to 4, there's no benefit from that.
Obviously these numbers are all made up, but it illustrates why your sentence doesn't make sense. Just because I think that someone who lives in isolation without freedom cannot ever live a life of luxury does not mean I think all lives in isolation and without freedom are the same.
Also, there's considerable evidence that Breivik's childhood is a story of abuse and neglect. While he's arguably the most horrible criminal Norway has ever seen (pretty high on the list of sadistic sociopathic fucks anywhere), I still feel he's a victim of his own circumstances, that his life has been pretty horrible, and that no additional pain inflicted upon him improves the life situation of any person he fucked over. Obviously I feel way worse for his victims than I do about him, but I think he's an absolutely pitiful person.
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On May 04 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:Le Pen acted really weird in the debate. She's actually not that great of a populist at all. Also what was this + Show Spoiler +Is she trying to win the election with ... magic?
literally the climax of the debate, made me laugh and that was really embarassing
she made a cultural reference (Les Inconnus), which is the french version of the Monty Python (to say it simply)
i was caught off guard by that
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On May 05 2017 00:11 Liquid`Drone wrote:
What? Say I think life quality is on a 0-100 scale. Then I think without food and water, you quickly drop towards 0. Maybe I think his current situation is like, 10. And I think if he had freedom and ability to interact with people, he'd go to 50. If you remove video games and a gym, he drops to 4. I think 10 is more than sufficient punishment and that there's no point in bringing him down to 4, there's no benefit from that.
Obviously these numbers are all made up, but it illustrates why your sentence doesn't make sense. Just because I think that someone who lives in isolation without freedom cannot ever live a life of luxury does not mean I think all lives in isolation and without freedom are the same.
Also, there's considerable evidence that Breivik's childhood is a story of abuse and neglect. While he's arguably the most horrible criminal Norway has ever seen (pretty high on the list of sadistic sociopathic fucks anywhere), I still feel he's a victim of his own circumstances, that his life has been pretty horrible, and that no additional pain inflicted upon him improves the life situation of any person he fucked over. Obviously I feel way worse for his victims than I do about him, but I think he's an absolutely pitiful person.
That's the case with most, if not all criminals.
That being said I totally agree with you and that's why I oppose capital punishment or any revenge based justice ideology.
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France12912 Posts
On May 05 2017 01:54 Makro wrote:Show nested quote +On May 04 2017 08:37 Nyxisto wrote:Le Pen acted really weird in the debate. She's actually not that great of a populist at all. Also what was this + Show Spoiler +Is she trying to win the election with ... magic? literally the climax of the debate, made me laugh and that was really embarassing she made a cultural reference (Les Inconnus), which is the french version of the Monty Python (to say it simply) i was caught off guard by that
I read that actually she just mocked what he said in his meeting the day before the debate
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I feel sorry for everyone who deosn't speak Czech, because what happened yesterday was comedy gold. As I already explained, the prime minister has declared that he will resign the government because of the scandals of the finance minister and head of one of the two major parties in the government. He planned to deliver the resignation to the president yesterday, but then he learned that the president might contemplate taking it only as his personal resignation and keeping the rest of the government intact, which would kinda defeat the purpose completely. This while possibly unconstitutional is within the style of the president who doesn't really care that much about the constitution anymore. So the prime minister decided to go to the castle only to discuss with the president how exactly this is gonna play out.
Upon arrival, the prime minister was met by a group of journalist and two microphones and asked by the president to make a statement - in a rather ... unconventional manner, with the president waiving his walking stick at him and telling him in an informal and condescending tone that his microphone faces the wrong direction. The prime minister then said he has no idea what kind of statement is expected from him, to which the president replied with a partly prepared speech about how he thanks him for his service; essentially the president has prepared the ceremony of the resignation despite none was provided, arguing that his staff was informed about the prime minster's change of plans at 7 a.m. which is deep night for his standards and he doesn't work at that time. The prime minister, visibly upset, took his mic and started talking about how this show could have been avoided and that he will resign later after the clarifications. The president left the room in the middle of the prime minister's talk ...
The president later confirmed that he will take the resignation as pertaining only to the prime minister, which would be completely unprecedented, so the prime minster declared he will not post it and has made a move to remove the finance minister instead, which will probably not be accepted by the president anyway.
This is a rather interesting development in Czech Republic where the position of the president was, since the revolution in 1989, considered rather formal and ceremonial. The first president, Vaclav Havel, was widely respected but his influence came more from his personality than from using his presidential powers; the current president Milos Zeman on the other hand shows that the powers of the president can be potentially much larger than even the authors of the constitution foresaw, depending on the president's will to stretch the meaning of certain formulations in the constitution and to ignore non-written traditions.
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How is the president chosen, and what safeguards does your constitution provide for removing him? Does that power reside with the courts? With parliament? Nowhere at all? This sounds like a bit of a constitutional crisis, so perhaps it'll depend on a change of the constitution?
Also, why is the president protecting the minister of finance above all? Are they popular with the Czech people despite the previously mentioned corruption scandal?
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The president is directly elected - which is a rather new change, previously he was elected jointly by both chambers of parliament. The president can be impeached for high treason or a serious breach of the constitution, upon the agreement between both chambers of parliament; the case is then tried by the constitutional tribunal (appointed by the president previously ...) and the only possible sentence is the loss of the office and the ineligibility to run again. However this is highly unlikely, as the president is inexplicably popular in the country and he is actually rather favored for re-election next year. Given there are also parliamentary elections this fall, nobody is gonna take such kind of move against the president now.
The president seems to be on very good terms with the finance minister, they both represent the current wave of "anti-establishment" populism, which is ironic, because the president is a former prime minister and former head of the social-democratic party, of which the current prime minister is a head right now, so he used to be as "establishment" as you could ever imagine. However he left politics for some time and came back with a rhetoric focused on nationalism, anti-immigration and general anti-western sentiments (which is not surprising as his campaign was provably financed from Russia) and presents himself as "the president of the lower ten millions" (of the 10.2 million population). He wins over people by acting like a total jerk, people like him probably for similar reasons as they like Trump over there across the Pond.
The popularity of the finance minister is even harder to comprehend, he is a billionaire businessman and the closest we have to the classical eastern oligarch, he owns a big part of the country's agriculture and food industry, as well as verious media. He ran on the motto of "running the state as a business" and working class people love how he fights the "parasites", meaning the small businesses and generally self-employed people, who all evade tax all the time in their eyes and steal from them, the hard working people. His supporters consider all the scandals to be fabricated and he run full-page ads in major newspaper yesterday claiming that this is all an attempt to silence him and his efforts to uncover the huge corruption of the "old guard" politicians; his supporters believe that.
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Excellent debate performance from Le Pen:
+ Show Spoiler +
Still not even 50% report from Dupont-Aignan's electorate, good job! You made him your promised PM, 55% of his voters still don't go to you:
+ Show Spoiler +
Nice job on improving your image during the debate, Mrs Le Pen:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_DmLjdXsAEQDQs.jpg) Blue = her attitude during the debate rather reassured you Red = rather worried you Yellow = neither
How to rig an election:
1) Craft some empty centrist gifted at talking to say nothing
2) Bomb the population with insane media hype
3) Get lucky with your clones losing and scandals
4) Get matched against the 3 IQ paper devil
5) Auto-win, good job, you can now rule the country with 9.6% effective support to your ideas (58% of convinced votes out of 21,4% in the first round out of 77,7% participation)
Free press in France, 2017:
https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/134428Macroncouvertures.jpg
Can't wait for them to snivel in a few months: why is the Wunderkind so quickly impopular? “France is ungovernable, this country is lost,” blablabla 
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On May 05 2017 20:41 TheDwf wrote:Excellent debate performance from Le Pen: + Show Spoiler +Still not even 50% report from Dupont-Aignan's electorate, good job! You made him your promised PM, 55% of his voters still don't go to you: + Show Spoiler +Nice job on improving your image during the debate, Mrs Le Pen: + Show Spoiler +Blue = her attitude during the debate rather reassured you Red = rather worried you Yellow = neither How to rig an election: 1) Craft some empty centrist gifted at talking to say nothing 2) Bomb the population with insane media hype3) Get lucky with your clones losing and scandals 4) Get matched against the 3 IQ paper devil 5) Auto-win, good job, you can now rule the country with 9.6% effective support to your ideas (58% of convinced votes out of 21,4% in the first round out of 77,7% participation) Free press in France, 2017: https://img4.hostingpics.net/pics/134428Macroncouvertures.jpgCan't wait for them to snivel in a few months: why is the Wunderkind so quickly impopular? “France is ungovernable, this country is lost,” blablabla
You forget a short stint at Rothschild to make a few million in cash and fill your address book with economic contacts, and a short stint as a minister to make the necessary political contacts and gain some minimum experience.
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Just because a guy you don't like is likely to win it doesn't mean the election is rigged. Which stage of grief does whining fit into?
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And, uhm, whats bad about these 2 things?
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On May 06 2017 00:27 Velr wrote:
And, uhm, whats bad about these 2 things?
What two things?
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On May 06 2017 00:36 Velr wrote:
The ones flayer posted.
The fusion of economic and political power is never good, but it's usual business for the high bourgeoisie: build networks, then use them to grab more power
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/xkJHNMo.gif)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_Di7ddXoAAWJbg.jpg)
![[image loading]](https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C_DkjeeXYAI5Py9.jpg)
