EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 656
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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Simberto
Germany12058 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States3410 Posts
On February 07 2017 00:38 Simberto wrote: The problem is that apparently you don't actually need bad things to leak. You just leak 30000 emails, and people will assume something bad is in there. Then people start looking through the stuff, find stuff that looks slightly shady, get very angry about it, and it later turns out that it was really nothing, but half the people still think that there was bad stuff in there. What are you talking about? For whom was this the case? | ||
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Sent.
Poland9331 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States3410 Posts
On February 07 2017 00:40 Sent. wrote: Clinton Sounds like you've had a healthy gulp of DNC propaganda. Although there was nothing felonious in the Clinton email leak, there was tons of terrible stuff. It was bad enough that Clinton had to start claiming that Assange was just a Russian puppet. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
1. It makes it sound like Macron is not the only one he has dirt on. 2. A lot of the dirt is tied to Clinton documents. 3. Much of the article is about the money FN spent (~€340k) which the EU says was unlawfully spent. I don't know, sounds like attention grabbing. But it's worked before. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22675 Posts
On February 07 2017 00:43 LightSpectra wrote: Sounds like you've had a healthy gulp of DNC propaganda. Although there was nothing felonious in the Clinton email leak, there was tons of terrible stuff. It was bad enough that Clinton had to start claiming that Assange was just a Russian puppet. Please name some of this bad stuff. Because despite his best attempts GH has not yet managed to deliver with anything 'terrible' or even 'not really good' for that matter. Edit: Woops just realised this isnt even the US politics thread. Feel free to PM me your answer if you think its going offtopic here. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 07 2017 00:15 Biff The Understudy wrote: I don't think she has less chances to win the whole thing than Trump had to become Potus a year ago. That little help from Assange came really handy; I am just amazed by that guy having the balls to tell a Russian newspaper he intends to repeat his stuff with France. Just for the context: the FN is sponsored by a small russian bank with ties from the Kremlin. They got a huge loan three days after being the first big party in Europe to recognize the invasion of Ukraine. And it is well documented that the FN leadership visit Russia very regularly. I mean, talk about playing with your cards open. On February 07 2017 00:16 Biff The Understudy wrote: Well, he seems to be saying quite openly that at least he'll try. It's no conspiracy of mine, it's what he says in the article I linked. Google translate is your friend. I also don't think he can succeed. But then again, if you had told me a year ago he would leak Clinton into Oblivion and get Trump elected I would have had a good laugh. No one can say that Clinton would have won without those leaks. Trump won the GOP primary, which made him an insider in a two-party system where a donkey and a stone would score +/- 50% if Democrats and Republicans were to elect them as their candidate. The Republicans already had the Congress. Meanwhile, Le Pen is the leader of a pariah party with zero ally and no representation. Not to mention she cannot play the moral high ground since her party is even more corrupt than others. Last but not least, we don't have an electoral college. Friendly reminder that Clinton actually stomped Trump in the popular vote... I have no idea why mainstream medias and some people like you analyze everything like “it serves Marine Le Pen”; you artificially put her at the center of the things all the time, then complain about her being big... | ||
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nojok
France15846 Posts
He said that people who stated that his wife not having an email adress was suspicious knew nothing about politic, no need emails apparently. The conferences he did in Russia were for free, he never received any money from any Russian source. The jobs his children did were document researches, note that studying to become a lawyer as they were atm is full time. He also said no one has the right to judge what the parlimentary assistants do. The job his wife did was writing one speech and redirecting some mails. Apparently it took him five days to get his wife's payslip, which is unfair because every journalist managed to get it the day after the revelations came out. It's a plot about someone giving those informations to journalist but not to him, so unfair. He also stated he was stunned by the attack so that's why he did not have clear explanations until now. Apparently a law forbids the current judiciary authority (National Finance Prosecutor) to investigate a congress man so it should be another authority. The billionaire who hired her wife said she indeed did some work for the magazine, she managed to do it without the director of the magazine being aware of her being an employee of the magazine. All in all, it was still a very smart speech given the circumstances but his defense is very weak and has a lot of holes imo. | ||
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
On February 06 2017 22:59 Acrofales wrote: Not sure why you are using either of these countries as an autocratic democracy. Neither can be called democracies. Neither have a free media or freedom of speech as we understand it. Having some sort of parliament is hardly an indicator of democracy either. It's actually pretty normal for autocratic countries in the present and past, stretching all the way to the medieval ages, to have some sort of parliament/diet/council of some sort. Though I generally agree there is a slope, I think I place democratic/not democratic in a different place to you.Plenty of Latin American autocracies were democracies that just went on for longer than intended. Look at Bolivia right now: Evo Morales is nearing the end of his 3rd term (constitution allows 2 terms, but he found a loophole that allowed him to be electable for a third term). There was a referendum about a change of constitution allowing him to run for a 3rd (4th) term, which voted against the change. Yet he is still making noises about wanting to run in 2019 (and I fully expect that he'll find a way to do it). Chavez in Venezuela was similar. No voter fraud was necessary, and the opposition wasn't forbidden (and isn't in Bolivia). It's just impotent in the face of a charismatic leader. Venezuela right now is, of course, a democracy in name only, but such is the slope from democracy to dictatorship (and even now, Maduro does not have absolute power, and has to deal with a democratically chosen parliament that opposes him). | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 07 2017 01:16 nojok wrote: Fillon has just finished his press conference. The usual plot defense. A few blunder here and there imo, he said his wife said she did not work for him because she was her collaborator, not his subordinate. He said that people who stated that his wife not having an email adress was suspicious knew nothing about politic, no need emails apparently. The conferences he did in Russia were for free, he never received any money from any Russian source. The jobs his children did were document researches, note that studying to become a lawyer as they were atm is full time. He also said no one has the right to judge what the parlimentary assistants do. The job his wife did was writing one speech and redirecting some mails. Apparently it took him five days to get his wife's payslip, which is unfair because every journalist managed to get it the day after the revelations came out. It's a plot about someone giving those informations to journalist but not to him, so unfair. He also stated he was stunned by the attack so that's why he did not have clear explanations until now. Apparently a law forbids the current judiciary authority (National Finance Prosecutor) to investigate a congress man so it should be another authority. The billionaire who hired her wife said she indeed did some work for the magazine, she managed to do it without the director of the magazine being aware of her being an employee of the magazine. All in all, it was still a very smart speech given the circumstances but his defense is very weak and has a lot of holes imo. Absolutely disgusting. He lied again about the journalist who had interviewed her wife in 2007. He's ready to have his whole political family go down in flames with him. He probably doesn't even understand what's wrong with what he did... Typical Old Regime mindset. I'll have a drink the day he drops out. | ||
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Incognoto
France10239 Posts
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
Yes, it's sadly not that rare in our political life, but fortunately less and less people tolerate it, especially from someone who presented himself as Mr. Honesty and campaigned on “irreproachable ethic”. | ||
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LegalLord
United States13779 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States3410 Posts
On February 07 2017 01:50 Incognoto wrote: I'm not in touch with the French political scene at the moment, but glossing over this thread it seems apparent that many fat cats (media, politicians, "justice" people) are doing everything they can do discredit Fillon. French politics is all about flinging shit everywhere and then trying to prove that the shit which sticks to you smells the best. Nothing constructive, nothing about making France better. Sad! That seems to be true just about everywhere, for every party. I immediately think of the Trudeau Jr. "elbow" scandal in Canada. In some sense I think the countries where small amounts of corruption is openly acceptable are somehow in better straits, since their political candidates are elected based off of policy, as opposed to who plays a better game of scandal dodgeball. | ||
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Toadesstern
Germany16350 Posts
[...] source: www.reuters.comBut the Parisian delegation thinks it has the upper hand. "When was the last time you took your partner for a weekend to Frankfurt," quipped Pecresse. what a burn  But it's true, Frankfurt is nice and all but I've heard quite a lot of times that the biggest reason people don't want to move there (if you're used to London) is just that there's nothing to do there. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
On February 07 2017 02:02 LegalLord wrote: So it's the hypocrisy that makes it deadly? No, but this and his political program (where he asks for heavy sacrifices from the population) make it even worse. The substance of the case remains that he may have stolen 1 million of euros from the public funds; and even if those jobs were real, there was clear nepotism and abuse of power. | ||
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