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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
a_flayer
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
Netherlands2826 Posts
August 27 2016 13:56 GMT
#10821
Why can't people just eat whatever is available. Whether it is dog, vegetarian or a sandwich. Sheez.
When you came along so righteous with a new national hate, so convincing is the ardor of war and of men, it's harder to breathe than to believe you're a friend. The wars at home, the wars abroad, all soaked in blood and lies and fraud.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-27 15:47:09
August 27 2016 15:18 GMT
#10822
On August 27 2016 22:56 a_flayer wrote:
Why can't people just eat whatever is available. Whether it is dog, vegetarian or a sandwich. Sheez.
because the state is giving it to them.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
plated.rawr
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Norway1676 Posts
August 27 2016 15:22 GMT
#10823
One part of me wants to say "ITS FUCKING FREE FOOD, YOU ENTITLED PIECE OF SHIT! Eat what's given to you, or don't - you're in no place to complain about what you're getting for free!"

However, it's obviously more complex than this. Up here, at least, two of the carrying arguments for school-served food for kids have been health and reduction of social class difference.

The health side argues that kids who don't bring food from home, currently either have to go hungry and thus have problems learning due to reduced concentration, or that they instead pick up unhealthy snacks and fast-food during lunch which is bad for their development and general health.

The class difference-argument is that wealthy families, or families with a homemaker has the chance of giving their kids more extravagant lunches (there was this trend of stay-at-home moms making cute japanese lunches for a while, which worked as a staple of social affluence), as well as poorer kids' families not being able to afford proper lunch.

The health side is in general sensible, but the social class one is more relevant in relation to the topic at hand - as with muslim kids and haram food. Since muslim families in general are on the poor scale of family wealth, they'd probably be one of the groups most benefitting from free lunch at school. Just telling them to "EAT YOUR FOOD OR GTFO", would then kinda shoot the entire social balancing aspect of school food in the foot.

It is a surprisingly complex issue for something that might seem trivial for a lot of people. If the goal of school food is ensuring everybody gets sufficient lunch to perform their best at school, then there need to be a sufficient offer to actually work for everyone. If the goal is also to help poverty-stricken families, then special care must be taken in regard to any social group overly represented at low income.

I don't really see this as a "muslim vs. the rest"-issue, but rather one of the difficulties of immigrating from a different culture.
Savior broke my heart ;_; || twitch.tv/onnings
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-27 16:50:38
August 27 2016 16:50 GMT
#10824
^I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote, but food served at school is not free food. It's cheap(er) food, but it still has a price that parents pay.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
Ghostcom
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark4782 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-27 16:54:37
August 27 2016 16:53 GMT
#10825
On August 28 2016 01:50 OtherWorld wrote:
^I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote, but food served at school is not free food. It's cheap(er) food, but it still has a price that parents pay.


That depends on where you live. In the Nordic countries I think the solution so far has been to make it tax-funded (although parents might pay a fee for having their kids attending kinder garden/private schools, but to the best of my knowledge these weren't bumped).
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
August 27 2016 17:20 GMT
#10826
The costs that result from children being underfed outweigh the costs of providing said children with food.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
August 27 2016 19:40 GMT
#10827
On August 28 2016 01:53 Ghostcom wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2016 01:50 OtherWorld wrote:
^I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote, but food served at school is not free food. It's cheap(er) food, but it still has a price that parents pay.


That depends on where you live. In the Nordic countries I think the solution so far has been to make it tax-funded (although parents might pay a fee for having their kids attending kinder garden/private schools, but to the best of my knowledge these weren't bumped).

Interesting. In France, if my memory is correct, the cost is decided by the competent authority - the mayor, the département or the région depending on what level of school we're talking about - and is usually a few euros.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
zlefin
Profile Blog Joined October 2012
United States7689 Posts
August 27 2016 19:42 GMT
#10828
On August 28 2016 04:40 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2016 01:53 Ghostcom wrote:
On August 28 2016 01:50 OtherWorld wrote:
^I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote, but food served at school is not free food. It's cheap(er) food, but it still has a price that parents pay.


That depends on where you live. In the Nordic countries I think the solution so far has been to make it tax-funded (although parents might pay a fee for having their kids attending kinder garden/private schools, but to the best of my knowledge these weren't bumped).

Interesting. In France, if my memory is correct, the cost is decided by the competent authority - the mayor, the département or the région depending on what level of school we're talking about - and is usually a few euros.

that may be the standard cost, but isn't there a program that makes them free and/or reduced price for poor children?
it seems like such an obvious thing to have.
Great read: http://shorensteincenter.org/news-coverage-2016-general-election/ great book on democracy: http://press.princeton.edu/titles/10671.html zlefin is grumpier due to long term illness. Ignoring some users.
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
August 27 2016 20:14 GMT
#10829
On August 28 2016 04:42 zlefin wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2016 04:40 OtherWorld wrote:
On August 28 2016 01:53 Ghostcom wrote:
On August 28 2016 01:50 OtherWorld wrote:
^I don't necessarily disagree with what you wrote, but food served at school is not free food. It's cheap(er) food, but it still has a price that parents pay.


That depends on where you live. In the Nordic countries I think the solution so far has been to make it tax-funded (although parents might pay a fee for having their kids attending kinder garden/private schools, but to the best of my knowledge these weren't bumped).

Interesting. In France, if my memory is correct, the cost is decided by the competent authority - the mayor, the département or the région depending on what level of school we're talking about - and is usually a few euros.

that may be the standard cost, but isn't there a program that makes them free and/or reduced price for poor children?
it seems like such an obvious thing to have.

Competent authorities can (but are not forced to) legally adjust the price depending on the family's income, yes. Not sure it's ever free though, but the lowest prices must be something like <1€/meal.
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 27 2016 23:03 GMT
#10830
Italian magistrates are to investigate whether companies ignored anti-seismic regulations when restoring public buildings, such as a school in Amatrice that was reduced to rubble in last week’s earthquake.

“Everyone suspects such a tragedy was not just a question of destiny,” said Giuseppe Saieva, chief prosecutor in the provincial capital of Rieti, north of Rome, who is heading the investigation. “Our duty is to verify if there was also responsibility, human culpability.”

Italy held a day of national mourning on Saturday for the 290 victims of the earthquake. In Ascoli Piceno, an emotional funeral was held for dozens of local victims. The president, Sergio Mattarella, the prime minister, Matteo Renzi, and other leaders were among the hundreds who filled a sports hall to mourn the dead. The mass was relayed by loudspeakers to many more assembled outside the hall.

A major focus of the judicial inquiry is the Romolo Capranica primary school in Amatrice, the town devastated in Wednesday’s 6.2-magnitude quake where 224 people died out of the total toll of 291. The school was inaugurated in 2012 after being rebuilt by a consortium of builders, Valori Scarl, which won a contract from Amatrice town council for €700,000 (£596,552) to implement anti-earthquake safety standards in the school buildings, according to judicial sources.

Also under the magistrates’ spotlight is the restructuring of the bell tower of the church at Accumoli, a town near Amatrice at the epicentre of the quake. A family of four were killed when the tower collapsed on their home. It had supposedly been restructured to anti-seismic standards with public funds that the Catholic diocese of Rieti obtained following the 1997 earthquake in central Italy.

Homeowners who employed companies that disregarded rules could receive compensation. But Amatrice residents who built extensions or made major home renovations without meeting anti-seismic standards could be prosecuted for causing the deaths of family members.

Police officers are guarding the heap of crumpled masonry which is all that is left of Amatrice town hall to prevent suspects removing municipal records that would show which companies won public contracts.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6236 Posts
August 28 2016 07:52 GMT
#10831
On August 27 2016 22:26 zlefin wrote:
There's a lot of concern in the US about companies doing tax inversions by going abroad like that; so i'd imagine the US just wants a settlement where the US gets the tax money, but is fine with the taxes being assessed.

the problem of international taxation is complicated with how much companies can try to fake shift money around to fake where the money is really being made. so I disagree with your snark rvb.

The actual problem with the US and international taxes is that they're almost the only country who taxes worldwide income of both its citizens and companies. The US system does not just tax the money where it is being made.
If the US wants to reduce tax inversion they should switch to a territorial system like everyone else and reduce rates to a competitive rate. I'm for abolishing corporate taxes altogether but that's a different argument.
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5281 Posts
August 28 2016 12:35 GMT
#10832
more on EU -> US tax wars http://leftfootforward.org/2016/08/tax-wars-are-looming-and-the-us-has-fired-a-shot-across-the-eus-bows/
The US taxes companies on the basis of their worldwide profits though there are lots of ifs and buts about repatriation of profits. If some taxes are already paid by a US-based corporation, such as Google or Starbucks, in the EU then a credit for that amount is deducted from the US tax liability.

So a higher tax elsewhere can result in lower tax yield in the US and hence the US anxiety. In a stark warning, the US government paper warns that ‘The U.S. Treasury Department continues to consider potential responses should the Commission continue its present course.’

To understand the tensions let us look at the background. Many countries seek to attract capital by offering concessions. In a neoliberal world, direct state subsidies to corporations are frowned upon as nation states complain about unfair competition.

But this can be circumvented as governments can offer tax concessions to selected corporations rather than to all companies. The concessions create economic incentives for companies to devise transfer pricing techniques and shift profits to low tax jurisdictions through charges for intragroup interest payments, royalty payments and management fees.

This profit shifting affects the tax revenues of other countries. Such concerns have prompted the EU to investigate tax concessions offered by member states to Apple, Fiat, Starbucks, Amazon and McDonald’s. Last year, the EU decided that selective tax advantages for Fiat in Luxembourg and Starbucks in the Netherlands are illegal under EU state aid rules.

The companies were ordered to repay €20-€30 million i.e. higher taxes in the EU. Further EU rulings are expected soon about Apple and Amazon.
with some nice history lessons
Globalisation has added further tensions to the EU and US concerns about corporate taxation. A company like Apple operates across the globe and has hundreds of subsidiaries. Nevertheless, it is an integrated entity with a common company board, business strategy and product. It makes profits through global integration and economies of scale.

However, nation states are confined to a defined geographical area and can only tax the profits made within their jurisdictions. So since the early twentieth-century, a variety of international treaties have enabled nation states to attribute corporate revenues, costs and profits to their jurisdictions.

These treaties established three principles. Firstly, companies would be taxed at the place of their residence rather than where the economic activity took place.

Second, even though companies may be under common ownership and control, they would be taxed as separate entities. Thus a company with 500 subsidiaries will be treated as 500 separate entities for tax purposes, which gives it a licence to engage in international tax arbitrage.

Thirdly, there was an issue about how intra-group transactions were to be assessed for tax purposes, as companies have operations and subsidiaries in other countries and transfer goods and services to each other.

The solution was to agree on what is known as transfer pricing and intra-group transactions were to be valued according to what the Organisation for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) calls ‘arm’s length’ principle, or free-market market prices.

The above system predates the emergence of the internet, transnational corporations, global oligopolies and a vast number of tax havens. It is now broken.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 28 2016 13:45 GMT
#10833
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-28 15:23:01
August 28 2016 15:16 GMT
#10834
On August 28 2016 22:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/769855265378279424

V-I-C-T-O-R-Y

A good news once in a while is not that bad ! Now can we enforce some regulation to protect the environment, workers rights and favor the redistribution of wealth please ?
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
NukeD
Profile Joined October 2010
Croatia1612 Posts
August 28 2016 15:26 GMT
#10835
On August 28 2016 22:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/769855265378279424

Is this regarding TTIP?
sorry for dem one liners
OtherWorld
Profile Blog Joined October 2013
France17333 Posts
August 28 2016 15:26 GMT
#10836
On August 29 2016 00:16 WhiteDog wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2016 22:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/769855265378279424

V-I-C-T-O-R-Y

A good news once in a while is not that bad ! Now can we enforce some regulation to protect the environment, workers rights and favor the redistribution of wealth please ?

No comments on how the EU is a corrupt organization sold to American liberalism this time? (;
Used Sigs - New Sigs - Cheap Sigs - Buy the Best Cheap Sig near You at www.cheapsigforsale.com
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-08-28 15:31:57
August 28 2016 15:29 GMT
#10837
On August 29 2016 00:26 OtherWorld wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 29 2016 00:16 WhiteDog wrote:
On August 28 2016 22:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/769855265378279424

V-I-C-T-O-R-Y

A good news once in a while is not that bad ! Now can we enforce some regulation to protect the environment, workers rights and favor the redistribution of wealth please ?

No comments on how the EU is a corrupt organization sold to American liberalism this time? (;

The EU is a corrupt organization sold to liberalism (not american). The german form of liberalism (ordoliberalism) is quite different from the american form of liberalism, and might be the reason why the TIPP failed. The US had a lot to lose in this treaty too ; we europeans like to believe ourselves to be superior but some of our demands (in regard to state financed infrastructures for exemple) were in total contradiction with what the US is currently doing.

OtherWorld reading you more and more, I've grown to be quite a fan of you, and I don't despair to see you in the street asking for the end of the euro in the years to come !

"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6236 Posts
August 28 2016 16:30 GMT
#10838
On August 29 2016 00:26 NukeD wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2016 22:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/769855265378279424

Is this regarding TTIP?

yes. Too many victories for protectionism lately.
{CC}StealthBlue
Profile Blog Joined January 2003
United States41117 Posts
August 28 2016 16:51 GMT
#10839
The free trade negotiations between the European Union and the United States have failed, but “nobody is really admitting it”, Germany's Vice-Chancellor Sigmar Gabriel has said.

Talks over the so-called Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership, also known as TTIP, have made little progress in recent years.

The 14th round of negotiations between American and EU officials took place in Brussels in July. It was the third round in six months.

At the time, the talks were thought to be in trouble after a number of leading European politicians expressed concern about TTIP’s effects and the US’s reluctance to accept changes to the proposed deal.

In May, cracks emerged when France threatened to block the deal.

President Hollande said he would "never accept" the deal in its current guise because of the rules it enforces on France and the rest of Europe – particularly in relation to farming and culture – claiming they are too friendly to US businesses.

“We will never accept questioning essential principles for our agriculture, our culture and for the reciprocity of access to public [procurement] markets,” Mr Hollande is reported as saying at a meeting of left-wing politicians in Paris. “At this stage [of the talks] France says, ‘No'.”

Speaking on Sunday, Mr Gabriel, who is also Germany’s Economy Minister, said: “In my opinion, the negotiations with the United States have de facto failed, even though nobody is really admitting it."

He said that during the talks neither side had agreed on a single common chapter out of the 27 being deliberated.

He further denounced the TTIP negotiations, saying the free trade deal proposed between the EU and Canada – the Comprehensive Economic and Trade Agreement (CETA) – was fairer for all parties.


Source
"Smokey, this is not 'Nam, this is bowling. There are rules."
LegalLord
Profile Blog Joined April 2013
United Kingdom13775 Posts
August 28 2016 16:55 GMT
#10840
On August 28 2016 22:45 {CC}StealthBlue wrote:
https://twitter.com/AP/status/769855265378279424

Any further details about the nature of disagreements?
History will sooner or later sweep the European Union away without mercy.
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