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European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 390

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Although this thread does not function under the same strict guidelines as the USPMT, it is still a general practice on TL to provide a source with an explanation on why it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Failure to do so will result in a mod action.
Velr
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
Switzerland10854 Posts
January 15 2016 11:10 GMT
#7781
So, why is the old testament still a thing for christians then?

Not going further into this, if you want to you can commit atrocities and justify it with either religion. So can buddhists and Hindus with theirs... Doesn't matter, assholes will use whatever they can to rally people behind them to acomplish their goals.
WhiteDog
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
France8650 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 12:10:09
January 15 2016 11:33 GMT
#7782
On January 15 2016 19:04 silynxer wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 15 2016 09:57 WhiteDog wrote:
On January 15 2016 09:46 SoSexy wrote:
On January 15 2016 09:42 WhiteDog wrote:
On January 15 2016 08:19 SoSexy wrote:
On January 15 2016 08:08 WhiteDog wrote:
Facism and nazism are pretty close : the valorization of authority, incarnate in a man, against the decadence of the democracy ; a return to a mythified identity from the past, pure. In this regard, islamism as it express itself in France is a form of facism : it is clearly stated that it is a response to the decadence of the occident, a way to restore a form of purity.
Facism as it expressed itself in France, Italia in the early XXth century is actually way more relevant as a concept than this idea of totalitarism. Arendt created many concept that somehow leaked in the media and are now taken by everybody, but those concept are most of the time great simplification that limit our comprehension of reality more than they actually enlight anything. Arendt was a liberal, and as such any kind of political ideology that did not fight for freedom were instantly labelled as undemocratic, totalitarian in nature, like the french revolution. Empirically most of her concept were also proven wrong (like the idea of the banality of evil, which is now proven wrong by historian, but was somehow globally accepted and made us all responsible of what the nazi did - with the inheret idea that altho evil, it was a human trait, and thus that we all shared responsability).


Sorry whitedog, but this makes no sense. How can a philosophical concept be 'proven wrong by historians'? The banality of evil was a reading of a certain aspect of reality which could be true or false, depending on the issue - these terms were not born with the idea of being 'proven right by historians', nor they lose their value if they fall out of fashion. This is like saying 'historians proved Plato's realm of ideas wrong' - what does that mean??

Sorry but as a philosopher, I felt a pain in my chest at that sentence 8)

Arendt's banality of evil is not a simple philosophical concept, it is based on Arendt work as a journalist in eichman trial. The idea is that eichmann represent the banality of evil because he was basically following orders, accepting their legitimacy because they came from higher, and did what he did not for his adhesion to the nazi ideology : she built this idea from empirical knowledge not from logic.
What historian showed was eichman adhesion, for exemple the fact that he tried a coup d etat after the end of the regime, thus clearly questionning the value of the concept.


Check this paragraph. I think it's better to consider it a philosophical concept: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eichmann_in_Jerusalem#The_banality_of_evil

The banality of evil is clearly built upon eichman as an ideal. : the book is based on her experience has a journalist. That afterwards it is presented as a concept doesn't change much : it does not really enlight but reduce our comprehension (they did it because they refused to think and accepted aurhority), like most of Arendt work (but it is easy to access it which explain the success).

As a disclaimer, I have not read Arendt and am not sure what the banality of evil entails for her exactly but have you read "Un si fragile vernis d’humanité : banalité du mal, banalité du bien" by Michel Terestchenko? I think he makes a pretty good case using multiple accounts and sources (not all of which are perfect to be honest, like the Milgram experiment but still). Also by contrasting evil to altruism, he creates a pretty interesting and in my opinion useful framework for understanding either actions through the individual self-concept.

The obeissance to authority is, of course, a useful concept. But when you only analyse the crime of the nazi through the idea of the banality of evil, you decontextualize the crimes, and imply that any country, at any moment, could have done the same. It is an anhistorical and asociological vision of the nazis, based on a certain philosophical anthropology.
It is the modus operandi that Arendt utilize in most of her work : to detroy the specificity and only insist on the gross and simplified caracteristics, a vision that leads to rather simple and manichean vision of politics that in fact constitute not an analysis but rather (in my mind) a political philosophy tailored to decredibilize most non liberal political visions, like any communist or socialist vision.
"every time WhiteDog overuses the word "seriously" in a comment I can make an observation on his fragile emotional state." MoltkeWarding
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6266 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 12:03:56
January 15 2016 11:44 GMT
#7783
EU citizens would have a harder time finding jobs and the economy would suffer should Europe's internal passport-free zone collapse under the pressure of the migration crisis, the head of the bloc's executive said on Friday.

European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker conceded it would not be easy to curb the mass influx of migrants and refugees, a top priority for Germany - the 28-nation bloc's biggest economy and the main destination for those arriving.

The migration crisis, Europe's worst since World War Two, exposed bitter disagreements between EU members and has put the Schengen zone of passport-free travel on the verge of collapse, a prospect Juncker set out to warn against.

"Less Schengen means less employment, less economic growth," he told a news conference in Brussels. "Schengen is one of the biggest achievements of the European integration process."

"Without Schengen, without the free movement of workers, without freedom of European citizens to travel, the euro makes no sense.. And the same applies to the link between Schengen, freedom of movement and the internal market."

"If anybody wants to kill off Schengen, then ultimately what they are going to do is do away with the single market as well. And that's going to lead to unemployment issues in Europe."

Juncker said the brake-up of Schengen would also make freight and business travel much more expensive as he urged member states to deliver on measures the bloc has already adopted to mitigate the crisis but largely failed to deliver on.

EU members have traded accusations over who is to blame for the crisis, with Brussels and Germany accusing Italy and Greece of letting too many people in. The southern states lambasted Berlin for an open-door policy that encouraged more arrivals.

Last year, more than one million arrived in the EU. The bloc had little success in creating migrant registration 'hot-spot' sites in Greece and Italy, relocating people who already arrived to other EU countries or getting Turkey to keep more of the migrants and asylum-seekers on its soil.

Juncker said he would not give up seeking a European solution to prevent member states from resorting to national fixes, like reintroducing border controls within Schengen. But he admitted that would continue to be an uphill battle.

"I don't have too many illusions about the year ahead because everything is going to be difficult. But I'm not going to give up, I reject the idea that this is somehow the beginning of an end," he said.

uk.reuters.com

The European Union is teetering, and Dutch Freedom Party leader Geert Wilders wants to tip it over the edge.

Wilders, 52, whose party leads opinion polls with calls to close Dutch borders to refugees, pledged to immediately pull the Netherlands out of the 28-nation EU should he become prime minister in elections due in March next year. The EU is unraveling and that’s to be encouraged, he said, urging the U.K. to quit the bloc in its forthcoming referendum.

“We are not sovereign any more; we are not even allowed to form our own immigration policy or even close our borders and I would do that,” Wilders said Thursday in an interview in the Dutch parliament building in The Hague. “I would wish the Dutch to be more like Switzerland. In the heart of Europe, but not in the European Union.”

A household name in the Netherlands since 2004, when he split from the mainstream Liberal party to form his own on an anti-Islam platform, the bouffant-haired blond has enjoyed a swell of support as voters grow increasingly alarmed at the arrival in Europe of more than a million refugees from Syria and elsewhere. The latest poll showed him winning the most parliamentary seats -- as many as Prime Minister Mark Rutte’s Liberals won in 2012 -- if elections were held now.
After years of turbulence surrounding Greek membership of the euro, the focus of uncertainty in the EU has shifted to Britain, where Prime Minister David Cameron is set to call a referendum as early as June on whether the U.K. should stay in or leave. Wilders said he “hopes” Britons will opt to quit, with a knock-on effect on the Netherlands.

‘Enormous Incentive’

In the event of a so-called Brexit, “you will see that it will be easier for other countries to make the same decision,” Wilders said. “The beginning of the end of the European Union has already started. And it can be an enormous incentive for other countries if the United Kingdom would leave.”

Wilders’s Freedom Party is at the vanguard of a movement of populist parties on both right and left that are making inroads across Europe espousing a mixture of anti-austerity, often euro-skeptic and sometimes anti-immigration policies.
The Netherlands has been a forerunner in the splintering of European politics and ideologies. While Spain made headlines in December for having four major parties competing in elections for the first time, the Netherlands saw 11 groups gaining parliamentary seats in the last election. That makes coalition-building difficult and stable governments increasingly rare. Early elections have been called four times in 10 years. If the current Liberal-Labor cabinet completes its full term, it would be the first to do so for nearly two decades.

For Wilders to succeed Rutte, he will need to ensure that the Freedom Party emerges “as big as possible” from the next elections. Amid a fractious parliament, sizable support would make it difficult for other groups to shun him as he bids to form a government, he said. “I believe that parties that exclude us today will have a different tune next year.”
Support for the Freedom Party has risen to the equivalent of 41 seats in the 150-member Dutch parliament, up from 15 in the 2012 elections. The Liberals have sent mixed messages on cooperating with Wilders, while the Christian Democrats have ruled it out in the past. The two parties are battling for second place in the polls.

‘Given Away’

Wilders says he’s ready to form a government with the Liberals, though he won’t work with the premier himself. Rutte has “given Holland away,” Wilders said, blaming him for “so many austerity measures to touch the Dutch with lower pensions, lower benefits for the elderly, higher taxes, at the same time giving all that money to, for instance, Greece, or asylum seekers.”

The Netherlands gave refuge to 59,000 people last year -- a fraction of the number entering Germany -- at a cost to the government of 1.2 billion euros ($1.3 billion), Finance Minister Jeroen Dijsselbloem has said.

Wilders, who lives under constant government security protection, rejects the idea that Syrians seeking a home in the Netherlands are refugees at all, noting that to get there, they passed through other peaceful countries. He says Gulf nations should take more people in and Syrian men of military age should return to the country to fight, rather than European troops being sent in. Dutch warplanes are flying missions over Iraq in order to fight Islamic State.
“Europe cannot handle this any more,” Wilders said, citing incidents such as the sexual assaults reported in Germany over the New Year’s celebrations, including in Cologne, close to the Dutch border.

Since Wilders left the Liberals amid opposition to the party’s support for Turkish EU membership and tension from his anti-Islamic rhetoric, he’s used the media to boost support and awareness for his cause. In 2008, he released “Fitna,” a movie showcasing his views on Islam.

‘Fewer Moroccans’

Of course, Wilders has plenty of opposition at home. He’s been put on trial once before for inciting hatred with his speech and will again appear before a Dutch court in March for remarks he made in 2014 calling for “fewer Moroccans” in the country.

That statement and its impact on young people in the Netherlands were “so horrible,” Rutte said on Dutch television Sunday. The prime minister said he would only consider governing with Wilders if he withdrew the comments, before adding that he’s not eager to govern with him even after meeting that condition. On Thursday, the Freedom Party leader refused to recant or apologize for his statements.

Wilders has enjoyed popular support before in polls, only to falter on election day. He acknowledged that he needs to keep voters engaged over the next year, saying he’s not celebrating yet.

“The good news is that you see now in any European country parties like mine are on the rise and we can be very influential, as my party was, outside the government,” he said. “The best would be to win elections inside the government. That’s my aim and that is our goal.”

www.bloomberg.com
edit: sorry for the size of the 2nd article but it gives a pretty interesting and accurate insight in Dutch politics.
corumjhaelen
Profile Blog Joined October 2009
France6884 Posts
January 15 2016 11:56 GMT
#7784
Funnily enough, reading is probably the most important thing that made me a communist.
‎numquam se plus agere quam nihil cum ageret, numquam minus solum esse quam cum solus esset
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
January 15 2016 12:01 GMT
#7785
On January 15 2016 20:10 Velr wrote:
if you want to you can commit atrocities and justify it with either religion. So can buddhists and Hindus with theirs... Doesn't matter, assholes will use whatever they can to rally people behind them to acomplish their goals.


Never said the opposite
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
January 15 2016 12:29 GMT
#7786
Yeah Whitedog, we have to disagree. on that one.
Dating thread on TL LUL
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
January 15 2016 12:31 GMT
#7787
Just saw this video, have no information at all - perhaps some german native speakers can help us understand?
Dating thread on TL LUL
Schmobutzen
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany284 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 12:52:01
January 15 2016 12:50 GMT
#7788
It is about the yearly NYE brooha in a dominant ex-migrant part of Berlin. There they meet and "battle" it out with fireworks.

Nothing to see there.

In my youth in the GDR we had similar battles.

edit: typos
SoSexy
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
Italy3725 Posts
January 15 2016 14:31 GMT
#7789
On January 15 2016 21:50 Schmobutzen wrote:
It is about the yearly NYE brooha in a dominant ex-migrant part of Berlin. There they meet and "battle" it out with fireworks.

Nothing to see there.

In my youth in the GDR we had similar battles.

edit: typos


Oh. Poor them then, I misunderstood. Better continue to do that
Dating thread on TL LUL
Orome
Profile Blog Joined June 2004
Switzerland11984 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 16:00:01
January 15 2016 15:59 GMT
#7790
edit: WOOPS
On a purely personal note, I'd like to show Yellow the beauty of infinitely repeating Starcraft 2 bunkers. -Boxer
Maenander
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany4926 Posts
January 15 2016 16:18 GMT
#7791
Wow, Erdogan's speeches. Academics signing a petition against the anti-PKK operations? Traitors who should be fired in an instant.

"You are not intellectuals, you are ignorant and dark, you know nothing about the East or Southeast. We know this region as well as your home address."

You couldn't make this stuff up.
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6266 Posts
January 15 2016 16:20 GMT
#7792
On January 16 2016 01:18 Maenander wrote:
Wow, Erdogan's speeches. Academics signing a petition against the anti-PKK operations? Traitors who should be fired in an instant.

"You are not intellectuals, you are ignorant and dark, you know nothing about the East or Southeast. We know this region as well as your home address."

You couldn't make this stuff up.

Who even listens to this guy anymore?
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22108 Posts
January 15 2016 16:29 GMT
#7793
On January 16 2016 01:18 Maenander wrote:
Wow, Erdogan's speeches. Academics signing a petition against the anti-PKK operations? Traitors who should be fired in an instant.

"You are not intellectuals, you are ignorant and dark, you know nothing about the East or Southeast. We know this region as well as your home address."

You couldn't make this stuff up.

The guy is a dictator trying to be the next Putin. He will say and do anything to keep in power and that power comes from fear.

The only reason the world hasn't turned its collective back on him is because Turkey is a valuable strategic country.
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
January 15 2016 16:50 GMT
#7794
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/18-academics-detained-over-130-face-criminal-charges-amid-accusations-by-president-of-terrorist-propaganda.aspx?PageID=238&NID=93887&NewsCatID=339
Turkish police have detained at least 18 academics who signed a petition calling for an end to military operations in southeastern Anatolia, while more than 130 academics are facing criminal charges. The moves come just days after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan slammed the signatories for making “terrorist propaganda.”

Universities and prosecutor’s offices across the country started to launch probes into some of the 1,128 local and international academics and intellectuals who fall within the state’s jurisdiction, arguing that the petition went beyond the limits of academic freedoms.
...
“Our nation should see who is who. Being a professor does not make someone an intellectual. These are the darkest of people. They are cruel people, because those who ally with cruelty are themselves cruel,” Erdoğan said on Jan. 15, referring to the detention of academics.
...
According to reports, the academics are being charged with violating the controversial Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code, according to which it is illegal to insult the Turkish nation, the state of the Turkish Republic or the Grand Assembly of Turkey and the state’s judicial institutions. The academics are also accused of “terrorist propaganda” and of “inciting hatred and enmity.”

on the other hand http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/european-bank-makes-record-high-investment-for-turkey-in-2015-despite-challenging-environment.aspx?pageID=238&nID=93812&NewsCatID=345
The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) has said it delivered very strong support for the Turkish economy as investments hit a record high of 1.9 billion euros in 2015 in a written statement on Jan. 13.

The country reconfirmed its position as the top destination for EBRD finance, with Turkish projects representing 20 percent of the EBRD’s total 9.4 billion euros investment last year across some three dozen countries, according to the statement.

The rise in financing in Turkey from 1.4 billion euros in 2014 came amid two national elections, the fallout from regional crises, escalating tensions and economic growth below potential.

“The EBRD delivered a remarkable performance in Turkey despite the challenging environment, responding to an ever-growing demand for finance, especially outside large metropolitan areas,” said Jean-Patrick Marquet, Istanbul-based EBRD country director for Turkey, who took up the post in March 2015.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-15 17:08:11
January 15 2016 16:57 GMT
#7795
On January 15 2016 21:31 SoSexy wrote:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tlpdD7wIYaw Just saw this video, have no information at all - perhaps some german native speakers can help us understand?

people do silly shit on NYE, not everything is a scandal now because immigrants are involved. If I follow that website link in the youtube description I reach the website of a woman demanding that "we remove the caliph from the White House" who is apparently the founder of some kind of hate group. Like, maybe you should change your news sources a little bit
Gorsameth
Profile Joined April 2010
Netherlands22108 Posts
January 15 2016 17:14 GMT
#7796
On January 16 2016 01:50 xM(Z wrote:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/18-academics-detained-over-130-face-criminal-charges-amid-accusations-by-president-of-terrorist-propaganda.aspx?PageID=238&NID=93887&NewsCatID=339
Show nested quote +
Turkish police have detained at least 18 academics who signed a petition calling for an end to military operations in southeastern Anatolia, while more than 130 academics are facing criminal charges. The moves come just days after President Recep Tayyip Erdoğan slammed the signatories for making “terrorist propaganda.”

Universities and prosecutor’s offices across the country started to launch probes into some of the 1,128 local and international academics and intellectuals who fall within the state’s jurisdiction, arguing that the petition went beyond the limits of academic freedoms.
...
“Our nation should see who is who. Being a professor does not make someone an intellectual. These are the darkest of people. They are cruel people, because those who ally with cruelty are themselves cruel,” Erdoğan said on Jan. 15, referring to the detention of academics.
...
According to reports, the academics are being charged with violating the controversial Article 301 of the Turkish Penal Code, according to which it is illegal to insult the Turkish nation, the state of the Turkish Republic or the Grand Assembly of Turkey and the state’s judicial institutions. The academics are also accused of “terrorist propaganda” and of “inciting hatred and enmity.”

on the other hand http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/european-bank-makes-record-high-investment-for-turkey-in-2015-despite-challenging-environment.aspx?pageID=238&nID=93812&NewsCatID=345
Show nested quote +
The European Bank for Reconstruction and Development (EBRD) has said it delivered very strong support for the Turkish economy as investments hit a record high of 1.9 billion euros in 2015 in a written statement on Jan. 13.

The country reconfirmed its position as the top destination for EBRD finance, with Turkish projects representing 20 percent of the EBRD’s total 9.4 billion euros investment last year across some three dozen countries, according to the statement.

The rise in financing in Turkey from 1.4 billion euros in 2014 came amid two national elections, the fallout from regional crises, escalating tensions and economic growth below potential.

“The EBRD delivered a remarkable performance in Turkey despite the challenging environment, responding to an ever-growing demand for finance, especially outside large metropolitan areas,” said Jean-Patrick Marquet, Istanbul-based EBRD country director for Turkey, who took up the post in March 2015.

As I said, Turkey is strategically important to Europe so they work with him despite his actions being dictatorial.
Welcome to reality, where we talk about morals and doing the right thing but forget it all in the face of $$
It ignores such insignificant forces as time, entropy, and death
xM(Z
Profile Joined November 2006
Romania5299 Posts
January 15 2016 17:45 GMT
#7797
well, even if Turkey is the chosen one(to lead EU affairs in Middle Est), one could still ask the question - can EU do it without Erdogan and his shenanigans?.
And my fury stands ready. I bring all your plans to nought. My bleak heart beats steady. 'Tis you whom I have sought.
TMG26
Profile Joined July 2012
Portugal2017 Posts
January 15 2016 18:15 GMT
#7798
On January 16 2016 02:45 xM(Z wrote:
well, even if Turkey is the chosen one(to lead EU affairs in Middle Est), one could still ask the question - can EU do it without Erdogan and his shenanigans?.


The answer is simple!

TAKE BACK CONSTANTINOPLE!!! DEUS VULT!
Supporter of the situational Blink Dagger on Storm.
cLutZ
Profile Joined November 2010
United States19574 Posts
January 15 2016 18:26 GMT
#7799
On January 16 2016 03:15 TMG26 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 16 2016 02:45 xM(Z wrote:
well, even if Turkey is the chosen one(to lead EU affairs in Middle Est), one could still ask the question - can EU do it without Erdogan and his shenanigans?.


The answer is simple!

TAKE BACK CONSTANTINOPLE!!! DEUS VULT!

1261 borders!
Freeeeeeedom
Mohdoo
Profile Joined August 2007
United States15737 Posts
Last Edited: 2016-01-16 08:41:46
January 16 2016 08:41 GMT
#7800

The charge that economic immigrants are masquerading as refugees, long denied here — including by Ms. Merkel herself — is now painfully, undeniably true


Source
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