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On July 09 2015 02:17 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:On July 09 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On July 09 2015 01:19 Faust852 wrote:On July 09 2015 01:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 09 2015 00:58 Hondelul wrote:On July 09 2015 00:52 Sent. wrote:
Yesterday or two days ago they mentioned the Greek referendum in my news and said that the public transport in Athenes was FREE. I don't know if it's always free or just that day but it's kind of funny that the Greek government keeps throwing money away while constantly reminding us that they can't make any more cuts. News in Germany said it was because there is very little money going around at the moment with the very limited capital Greeks can withdraw. You can't expect the people pay for public transport if they can't get their hand on cash money. Possible that I got something wrong, but that what I got. It must be untrue, they are just rich and they profit from european money. Damn you are such an annoying guy. We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! But well, please stop right now, we got it, everything in the Europe is corrupted, our leaders are evil and only want moar monee. Everything you say is for the sake of trashing the EU and the EZ while totally discrediting how it has helped tremendously every fucking countries in it since its creation. Yeah, Greece did shit, and we are partly responsible, that's a evidence that anything is perfect. But look other countries, and tell me that after following the authsterity mesures, they aren't on the way to the recovery ? Yeah, fuck Greece right now because they did nothing, they didn't even try. You are spouting nonsense. Half of what you imply I said has not been said by anyone in this thread. Just because most of the arguments against Greece are poor doesn't mean you have to get nervous and cry when someone point how weak they are. And I'm not a communist. how it has helped tremendously every fucking countries in it since its creation I've never seen proof of that. All I see is people saying it did, but when you look at actual number, some win some lose. But overall the growth / living condition / commercial balance / industrial strength / unemployment, all those indicator are not better than prior to the euro. Allusion of corruption : That's hypocrisy. I never saw you cry when Germany or France didn't respect the budgetary rules from 2000 to 2010. And that's just your last quote. I just claimed you are anti Europe, and it's fricking obvious you tend way too much on the left side. The only thing you did on this thread is defending Greece in any fashion possible, while discarding all the fault on the EU. I'm sorry for calling you a communist but sometimes you much on the left that's amazing. And about how weak are the argument for the EU, i'm pretty sure that it's not because you see them weak that they actually are. Try defending the almost 30% taxe evasion, the 800 000 people working on the public section, the huge clientelism or how incompetant the former and current polical leader are. You are defending a Grexit when you know that it will lead to their economical death. I spend quite sometime on the Europe subreddit to keep in touch with the recent event, and the last thing I read there from a Spaniard was : Not only the Euro. For thirty years Spain has received billions from the EU (and the CEE before). We have build motorways, hospitals, universities, brought our agrarian sector into the 20th century, and many, many more.
We have grown from a developing nation to a fully first world one. Losing your money hurts, but the truth is that now it's out turn to pay our share to Poland and Romania and Slovenia and so on. Because, even with the worst economic crisis in generations, we can afford it even if it's not as much as we could have five years ago.
Greece has been in the Union longer than us. By now, they should not be getting aid from Eastern Europe, they should be giving it, so in 20 or 30 years those nations are developed enough than the can complain about having to pay money to the EU. src As people have been pointing out, this is why they never should have been let into the Eurozone in the first place. But they were let in, banks lent to them and then got bailed out by their governments. Is Greece to blame for what is happening? Sure. Is it 100% their fault that is happened? Not in any way. Did the EU delude themselves for years while lending money to Greece? Yes. So now everyone pays and no one is happy. But the idea that they can get blood from a stone is just dumb. And gloating from the moral high ground at a country that is imploding just seems petty.
I quote myself :
Yeah, Greece did shit, and we are partly responsible, that's a evidence that anything is perfect.
I know it was an error, we weren't vigilent enough and it's obvious there were some closed eyes on the Greece situation when they joined the EZ.
The fact is they are with us now, and we must deal with it.
I know Austherity is not suffisant to substain Greece, IMF said it, it is obvious.
But There isn't just "Hey, We'll just let you starve to death". What they need is showing that reform are applicable, and that they respect it. ONCE they do it, we can cut on their debt. Not the opposite.
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Uh i really fear this crysis. In dont fear the grexit, but the mood in germany and other countrys is getting more and more nationalistic. No one looks whats good for Europe right now.
Politicans in europe support this mood, because they fear to to acknowledge their own mistakes.
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sounds like a joke to get us through these trying times
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Luckily, since they need not discuss the Greek proposals, because there aren't any, they have spare time for discussing nonsense.
With that said, it was an excellent exit for a vain peacock like him. All he needed to make it perfect would have been if it was evening, so he could ride into the sunset, lol.
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On July 09 2015 02:22 Acrofales wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 02:17 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:On July 09 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On July 09 2015 01:19 Faust852 wrote:On July 09 2015 01:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 09 2015 00:58 Hondelul wrote:On July 09 2015 00:52 Sent. wrote:
Yesterday or two days ago they mentioned the Greek referendum in my news and said that the public transport in Athenes was FREE. I don't know if it's always free or just that day but it's kind of funny that the Greek government keeps throwing money away while constantly reminding us that they can't make any more cuts. News in Germany said it was because there is very little money going around at the moment with the very limited capital Greeks can withdraw. You can't expect the people pay for public transport if they can't get their hand on cash money. Possible that I got something wrong, but that what I got. It must be untrue, they are just rich and they profit from european money. Damn you are such an annoying guy. We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! But well, please stop right now, we got it, everything in the Europe is corrupted, our leaders are evil and only want moar monee. Everything you say is for the sake of trashing the EU and the EZ while totally discrediting how it has helped tremendously every fucking countries in it since its creation. Yeah, Greece did shit, and we are partly responsible, that's a evidence that anything is perfect. But look other countries, and tell me that after following the authsterity mesures, they aren't on the way to the recovery ? Yeah, fuck Greece right now because they did nothing, they didn't even try. You are spouting nonsense. Half of what you imply I said has not been said by anyone in this thread. Just because most of the arguments against Greece are poor doesn't mean you have to get nervous and cry when someone point how weak they are. And I'm not a communist. how it has helped tremendously every fucking countries in it since its creation I've never seen proof of that. All I see is people saying it did, but when you look at actual number, some win some lose. But overall the growth / living condition / commercial balance / industrial strength / unemployment, all those indicator are not better than prior to the euro. Allusion of corruption : That's hypocrisy. I never saw you cry when Germany or France didn't respect the budgetary rules from 2000 to 2010. And that's just your last quote. I just claimed you are anti Europe, and it's fricking obvious you tend way too much on the left side. The only thing you did on this thread is defending Greece in any fashion possible, while discarding all the fault on the EU. I'm sorry for calling you a communist but sometimes you much on the left that's amazing. And about how weak are the argument for the EU, i'm pretty sure that it's not because you see them weak that they actually are. Try defending the almost 30% taxe evasion, the 800 000 people working on the public section, the huge clientelism or how incompetant the former and current polical leader are. You are defending a Grexit when you know that it will lead to their economical death. I spend quite sometime on the Europe subreddit to keep in touch with the recent event, and the last thing I read there from a Spaniard was : Not only the Euro. For thirty years Spain has received billions from the EU (and the CEE before). We have build motorways, hospitals, universities, brought our agrarian sector into the 20th century, and many, many more.
We have grown from a developing nation to a fully first world one. Losing your money hurts, but the truth is that now it's out turn to pay our share to Poland and Romania and Slovenia and so on. Because, even with the worst economic crisis in generations, we can afford it even if it's not as much as we could have five years ago.
Greece has been in the Union longer than us. By now, they should not be getting aid from Eastern Europe, they should be giving it, so in 20 or 30 years those nations are developed enough than the can complain about having to pay money to the EU. src As people have been pointing out, this is why they never should have been let into the Eurozone in the first place. But they were let in, banks lent to them and then got bailed out by their governments. Is Greece to blame for what is happening? Sure. Is it 100% their fault that is happened? Not in any way. Did the EU delude themselves for years while lending money to Greece? Yes. So now everyone pays and no one is happy. But the idea that they can get blood from a stone is just dumb. And gloating from the moral high ground at a country that is imploding just seems petty. Yeah, we get it. Everybody is going to have to bleed, and the regular Greek on the street is going to get hit harder than anybody else. So hard, in fact, that humanitarian aide seems necessary (unheard of in, and an utter disgrace for Europe) but that really doesn't change the fact that Greece IS going to have to do something about tax evasion and the bloated civil service. Whether they do that because the money simply runs out (your plan), or because Europe throws them a lifeline conditioned on reforms that do this, it WILL have to happen.
Yes, Greece needs humanitarian aid because the whole country is facing a liquidity crisis because of the capital controls imposed by Tsipris. It's the possibility of the grexit, and the possibility that the government will confiscate deposits as part of a deal that are causing the short term panic.
The ECB really can't do anything to prevent the Greeks from exercising their own sovereignty to the detriment of the people living there.
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I really hope the grexit will happen. Then I hope it will spread to other countries too (even France, my home country). The EU achieved nothing for its members except feeding banks and corporate governments. What I say may sound like total populism but this is how it feels when you're a simple plebeian. I want a return to local and secluded economies which don't depend on the ECB's goodwill to do QE every year to keep them afloat.
Europe is big scam and I am sick of my country being one of Germany underlings.
Do it Tsipras, as Mister Farage said.
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On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:
We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe !
Faust852, the incredible teenage redbaiter.
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On July 09 2015 00:52 Sent. wrote:
Yesterday or two days ago they mentioned the Greek referendum in my news and said that the public transport in Athenes was FREE. I don't know if it's always free or just that day but it's kind of funny that the Greek government keeps throwing money away while constantly reminding us that they can't make any more cuts.
Slightly off.
Having free public transport is a very good thing and its not throwing away money.
By making the transport free you also cut lots of the cost like selling tickets and people to check for tickets.
If it was up to me all public transport in Europe would be free and all the tax payers paying 500 a year extra to afford it.
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On July 09 2015 03:49 YuiHirasawa wrote:
I really hope the grexit will happen. Then I hope it will spread to other countries too (even France, my home country). The EU achieved nothing for its members except feeding banks and corporate governments. What I say may sound like total populism but this is how it feels when you're a simple plebeian. I want a return to local and secluded economies which don't depend on the ECB's goodwill to do QE every year to keep them afloat.
Europe is big scam and I am sick of my country being one of Germany underlings.
Do it, Tsipras as Mister Farage said.
well you are right partially.
The bankers have gone way and way to far in their greed. I don't think they can go any further without the whole population starting to revolt. What the banks are doing is becoming clear to more and more people.
Still a long way to go though but one day this system will be vanished and we will look back upon this era as a dark era.
In the end it is harmfull to our economy and our competitive edge. Even though the bankers think they are doing gods work and safing the nation. It might have been that way for a long time but since 9/11 and 2008 they have gone way and way to far and have become a toxic factor.
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On July 09 2015 03:50 nunez wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:
We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! Faust852, the incredible teenage redbaiter.
His consistence is impressive though. I can't fake that much rage for that long.
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On July 09 2015 03:53 Rassy wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 00:52 Sent. wrote:
Yesterday or two days ago they mentioned the Greek referendum in my news and said that the public transport in Athenes was FREE. I don't know if it's always free or just that day but it's kind of funny that the Greek government keeps throwing money away while constantly reminding us that they can't make any more cuts. Slightly off. Having free public transport is a very good thing and its not throwing away money. By making the transport free you also cut lots of the cost like selling tickets and people to check for tickets. If it was up to me all public transport in Europe would be free and all the tax payers paying 500 a year extra to afford it.
The environment would say thank you. Unfortunately, the automotive industry makes sure that hell is more likely to freeze than tax money being spent on public transportation.
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For what it's worth I actually think the discussion here is a lot more reasonable and well articulated than other forums on the internet.
In this thread European citizens seem to be largely OK with debt relief. I don't think the same can be said for general populace of EU.
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On July 09 2015 04:20 c0ldfusion wrote:
For what it's worth I actually think the discussion here is a lot more reasonable and well articulated than other forums on the internet.
In this thread European citizens seem to be largely OK with debt relief. I don't think the same can be said for general populace of EU.
I think you are conflating “Ok with” with accepting that there isn’t much else that can be done. No one thinks it’s great, but the options are limited.
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On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 01:26 WhiteDog wrote:On July 09 2015 01:19 Faust852 wrote:On July 09 2015 01:03 WhiteDog wrote:On July 09 2015 00:58 Hondelul wrote:On July 09 2015 00:52 Sent. wrote:
Yesterday or two days ago they mentioned the Greek referendum in my news and said that the public transport in Athenes was FREE. I don't know if it's always free or just that day but it's kind of funny that the Greek government keeps throwing money away while constantly reminding us that they can't make any more cuts. News in Germany said it was because there is very little money going around at the moment with the very limited capital Greeks can withdraw. You can't expect the people pay for public transport if they can't get their hand on cash money. Possible that I got something wrong, but that what I got. It must be untrue, they are just rich and they profit from european money. Damn you are such an annoying guy. We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! But well, please stop right now, we got it, everything in the Europe is corrupted, our leaders are evil and only want moar monee. Everything you say is for the sake of trashing the EU and the EZ while totally discrediting how it has helped tremendously every fucking countries in it since its creation. Yeah, Greece did shit, and we are partly responsible, that's a evidence that anything is perfect. But look other countries, and tell me that after following the authsterity mesures, they aren't on the way to the recovery ? Yeah, fuck Greece right now because they did nothing, they didn't even try. You are spouting nonsense. Half of what you imply I said has not been said by anyone in this thread. Just because most of the arguments against Greece are poor doesn't mean you have to get nervous and cry when someone point how weak they are. And I'm not a communist. how it has helped tremendously every fucking countries in it since its creation I've never seen proof of that. All I see is people saying it did, but when you look at actual number, some win some lose. But overall the growth / living condition / commercial balance / industrial strength / unemployment, all those indicator are not better than prior to the euro. Allusion of corruption : Show nested quote +That's hypocrisy. I never saw you cry when Germany or France didn't respect the budgetary rules from 2000 to 2010. And that's just your last quote. I just claimed you are anti Europe, and it's fricking obvious you tend way too much on the left side. The only thing you did on this thread is defending Greece in any fashion possible, while discarding all the fault on the EU. I'm sorry for calling you a communist but sometimes you much on the left that's amazing. And about how weak are the argument for the EU, i'm pretty sure that it's not because you see them weak that they actually are. Try defending the almost 30% taxe evasion, the 800 000 people working on the public section, the huge clientelism or how incompetant the former and current polical leader are. You are defending a Grexit when you know that it will lead to their economical death. I spend quite sometime on the Europe subreddit to keep in touch with the recent event, and the last thing I read there from a Spaniard was : Show nested quote +Not only the Euro. For thirty years Spain has received billions from the EU (and the CEE before). We have build motorways, hospitals, universities, brought our agrarian sector into the 20th century, and many, many more.
We have grown from a developing nation to a fully first world one. Losing your money hurts, but the truth is that now it's out turn to pay our share to Poland and Romania and Slovenia and so on. Because, even with the worst economic crisis in generations, we can afford it even if it's not as much as we could have five years ago.
Greece has been in the Union longer than us. By now, they should not be getting aid from Eastern Europe, they should be giving it, so in 20 or 30 years those nations are developed enough than the can complain about having to pay money to the EU. src
Allusion of corruption ? What the hell are you talking about ? I was pointing out the rule of 3 % deficit and 60 % debt gdp ratio that no one respect in the european union.
The rest is not even worth mentionning. Guys like you - liberals - can't see reality with pragmatic eyes. You point out Greece tax evasion, but don't mention that a big part of the money Greece cannot collect is in German or French vault, nor that the president of the european commission is the ex president of a rogue state - Luxembourg - that is specialized in helping grand scale tax evasion.
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On July 09 2015 03:57 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 03:50 nunez wrote:On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:
We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! Faust852, the incredible teenage redbaiter. His consistence is impressive though. I can't fake that much rage for that long.
Because I had one rant about a guy who is pissing on a dream I hold dear make me a teenage redbaiter. Welp. I guess one post is enough to enter the category of "consistent angry person".
So all I have to say is that I am sorry about believing in an ideal where all Europeans would be able to live in a same federal state.
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On July 09 2015 04:35 Faust852 wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 03:57 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2015 03:50 nunez wrote:On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:
We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! Faust852, the incredible teenage redbaiter. His consistence is impressive though. I can't fake that much rage for that long. Because I had one rant about a guy who is pissing on a dream I hold dear make me a teenage redbaiter. Welp. I guess one post is enough to enter the category of "consistent angry person". So all I have to say is that I am sorry about believing in an ideal where all Europeans would be able to live in a same federal state.
I for sure can sympathize with getting angry with Whitedog, he has a certain history and a way to discuss that can do that to you  Just ignore him and don't get on his level.
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On July 09 2015 04:38 ACrow wrote:Show nested quote +On July 09 2015 04:35 Faust852 wrote:On July 09 2015 03:57 Plansix wrote:On July 09 2015 03:50 nunez wrote:On July 09 2015 02:04 Faust852 wrote:
We fucking get it, you are a extrem leftist, a communist. booooo fuck the richs, fuck the banks, fuck politics, fuck europe ! Faust852, the incredible teenage redbaiter. His consistence is impressive though. I can't fake that much rage for that long. Because I had one rant about a guy who is pissing on a dream I hold dear make me a teenage redbaiter. Welp. I guess one post is enough to enter the category of "consistent angry person". So all I have to say is that I am sorry about believing in an ideal where all Europeans would be able to live in a same federal state. I for sure can sympathize with getting angry with Whitedog, he has a certain history and a way to discuss that can do that to you Just ignore him and don't get on his level.
It's so easy to make German posters angry tho.
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On July 09 2015 00:48 Narw wrote:
Guys its impossible to read last pages, a bit chill yo. It was interesting, now its just pure flaming.
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Don't take Plansix too seriously. He is probably best known for complaining about Europeans commenting on US issues, yet here he is...
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EPT
