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On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax.
Care to explain your reasoning behind this?
I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go.
The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO
A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliable
Reneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive
Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction.
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Well, there have been plenty of disscussion on this topic in the past so I dont really feel like repeating it again. To put it short:
1)Renewable is not free. This a lie. There is significant manufacturing cost both in energy and production. Which is offloaded to poorer countries in Asia and Africa when mining and extraction is happening. This is basically a new wave of colonialism when rich countries pay others to take their pollution.
2)Storing energy is a significant problem and since renewable do not produce same amounts of power during the day/year they are themselves unreliable.
3)And Nuclear is reliable. This is why it can support industrial society and renewables cant. Contrary to what You (and many Germans) believe nuclear is safe and clean energy.
In the past i posted a lot of links and articles regarding nuclear energy and development of new genarations of reactors which not only are much safer and effective then the old ones but can also burn most of nuclear waste, dramatically reducing need for long term waste storage space. Sadly the current world leader in development of new reactors is China because in the west anti-nuclear lobbies exerted enough presser to halt funding for research.
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Causing self harm is also counter intuitive, but animals and humans alike do it to themselves when feeling trapped and stressed. My point is that logic goes out the window and people will try anything, as long as it's something different.
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On December 22 2022 18:46 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. Care to explain your reasoning behind this? I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go. The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliableReneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction.
There's a few upsides you forgot. It has the lowest environmental impact of all electricity generation and also almost no CO2 emissions. Therefor in any scenario in IPCC reports where we are able to stay below 1.5 degrees global heating, it relies on a large increase of nuclear power generation. It is crazy how small the environmental impact of current nuclear power is compared to any other power generatinon, with minimal polution, waste and land requirements.
It is also the energy generation that kills the least amount of people. Natural gas e.g. have historically killed 38 times more people per kWh produced. If you compare it with coal it is 387 times per kWh.
There are a lot of upsides with nuclear power, if you want the safest future for your kids.
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On December 22 2022 19:31 Uldridge wrote:
Causing self harm is also counter intuitive, but animals and humans alike do it to themselves when feeling trapped and stressed. My point is that logic goes out the window and people will try anything, as long as it's something different.
While that is true, the people doing that are still behaving in an idiotic manner. Hence the label "idiots".
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On December 22 2022 19:48 Neneu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. Care to explain your reasoning behind this? I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go. The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliableReneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction. There's a few upsides you forgot. It has the lowest environmental impact of all electricity generation and also almost no CO2 emissions. Therefor in any scenario in IPCC reports where we are able to stay below 1.5 degrees global heating, it relies on a large increase of nuclear power generation. It is crazy how small the environmental impact of current nuclear power is compared to any other power generatinon, with minimal polution, waste and land requirements. It is also the energy generation that kills the least amount of people. Natural gas e.g. have historically killed 38 times more people per kWh produced. If you compare it with coal it is 387 times per kWh. There are a lot of upsides with nuclear power, if you want the safest future for your kids.
What's the fastest a new reactor can realistically be built?
15 years?
A bit llate for 1.5 degrees, isn't it?
Though if I'm honest I can't really see any other way than continued use of nuclear as a bridge technology. though I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether a similar trap looms that Germany fell into with over reliance on russian gas.
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United States43380 Posts
On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake.
Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News.
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On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
You know it's hardly the first emissions-related tax.
There was no backlash to previous ones and voters are terrible in understanding EU law anyway.
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On December 23 2022 00:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake. Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News.
Do you even realise how elitist your post is? In summary: people who happened to have disagree with you are unable to understand intelligent message idiots, morons following a fascist, racists and Fox news watchers. Thats some first class labeling.
"After all, these are the complaints of idiots" - you mean when people complain that they cant afford food, or heating?
Now read carefully what you just said (I actually wonder if you even realise what you said here):
"We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints"
Brexit and Trump were answer to this very attitude. And you know what? The more of this "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" there will be, the more extreme this answer will become.
Also "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" why use so many words to say "poor people"?
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On December 22 2022 23:05 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 19:48 Neneu wrote:On December 22 2022 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. Care to explain your reasoning behind this? I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go. The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliableReneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction. There's a few upsides you forgot. It has the lowest environmental impact of all electricity generation and also almost no CO2 emissions. Therefor in any scenario in IPCC reports where we are able to stay below 1.5 degrees global heating, it relies on a large increase of nuclear power generation. It is crazy how small the environmental impact of current nuclear power is compared to any other power generatinon, with minimal polution, waste and land requirements. It is also the energy generation that kills the least amount of people. Natural gas e.g. have historically killed 38 times more people per kWh produced. If you compare it with coal it is 387 times per kWh. There are a lot of upsides with nuclear power, if you want the safest future for your kids. What's the fastest a new reactor can realistically be built? 15 years? A bit llate for 1.5 degrees, isn't it? Though if I'm honest I can't really see any other way than continued use of nuclear as a bridge technology. though I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether a similar trap looms that Germany fell into with over reliance on russian gas.
It's not like we have to stop caring about power generation, climate change and co2 emissions in 15 years. Nor are we likely to have solved the problem of having reliable power during the days with little sun and wind (which typically is the time when you need it the most, since those days are usually during winter and are very cold), by relying on renewables. Sure you could have gas for power generation during those days, but then you are just trading in a type of power generation that pollutes more, kills more people on average, and have a higher enviornmental impact. That sounds like a really shitty solution.
Your objection doesn't make any sense, since you will have even greater power demands in 15 years. We will still continue to reduce co2 emissions in 15 years. Environmental impact will still matter in 15 years (which once again, nuclear have the lowest of any power generation). Do you think the IPCC report scenarios imagined the nuclear power plants to magically just be built within a few years?
Infrastructure usually take a long time to build. Yet we do it.
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You seem to have a hard time with reading comprehension.
The thing is, most people here are very in favor of a lot of stuff that would actually help the poorer strata of society. But the solutions are not the things being discussed here. There are poor people voting for stuff that would actually help them. And there are poor people voting for stuff that actively harms them. Those latter poor people are idiots. Being poor does not prevent you from being an idiot. But not all poor people are idiots, and not all rich people are not-idiots.
If you actively push to elect people who want to make your situation worse because you don't realize that that is what they intend to do, when they are as obvious as US republicans, then you are an idiot.
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On December 23 2022 02:14 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2022 00:24 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake. Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News. Do you even realise how elitist your post is? In summary: people who happened to have disagree with you are unable to understand intelligent message idiots, morons following a fascist, racists and Fox news watchers. Thats some first class labeling. "After all, these are the complaints of idiots" - you mean when people complain that they cant afford food, or heating? Now read carefully what you just said (I actually wonder if you even realise what you said here): "We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints" Brexit and Trump were answer to this very attitude. And you know what? The more of this "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" there will be, the more extreme this answer will become. Also "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" why use so many words to say "poor people"?
Why are you even trying to summarize posts you clearly failed to read or understand?
Are you doing this on purpose?
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On December 22 2022 23:05 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 19:48 Neneu wrote:On December 22 2022 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. Care to explain your reasoning behind this? I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go. The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliableReneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction. There's a few upsides you forgot. It has the lowest environmental impact of all electricity generation and also almost no CO2 emissions. Therefor in any scenario in IPCC reports where we are able to stay below 1.5 degrees global heating, it relies on a large increase of nuclear power generation. It is crazy how small the environmental impact of current nuclear power is compared to any other power generatinon, with minimal polution, waste and land requirements. It is also the energy generation that kills the least amount of people. Natural gas e.g. have historically killed 38 times more people per kWh produced. If you compare it with coal it is 387 times per kWh. There are a lot of upsides with nuclear power, if you want the safest future for your kids. What's the fastest a new reactor can realistically be built? 15 years? A bit llate for 1.5 degrees, isn't it? Though if I'm honest I can't really see any other way than continued use of nuclear as a bridge technology. though I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether a similar trap looms that Germany fell into with over reliance on russian gas.
Germans have been saying this for nearly 20years. And whats the result ? Germany keep on reopening coal mines. Is that really better than nuclear ?
I'm all for renewable energy btw, but it cannot sustain 100% of our needs, especially in winter. I'd rather have nuclear on the side than coal.
At this point, it is clear the anti nuclear stance of germany makes no sense and im kinda annoyed to have to follow it as an european.
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On December 23 2022 02:34 Neneu wrote:Show nested quote +On December 22 2022 23:05 Artisreal wrote:On December 22 2022 19:48 Neneu wrote:On December 22 2022 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. Care to explain your reasoning behind this? I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go. The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliableReneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction. There's a few upsides you forgot. It has the lowest environmental impact of all electricity generation and also almost no CO2 emissions. Therefor in any scenario in IPCC reports where we are able to stay below 1.5 degrees global heating, it relies on a large increase of nuclear power generation. It is crazy how small the environmental impact of current nuclear power is compared to any other power generatinon, with minimal polution, waste and land requirements. It is also the energy generation that kills the least amount of people. Natural gas e.g. have historically killed 38 times more people per kWh produced. If you compare it with coal it is 387 times per kWh. There are a lot of upsides with nuclear power, if you want the safest future for your kids. What's the fastest a new reactor can realistically be built? 15 years? A bit llate for 1.5 degrees, isn't it? Though if I'm honest I can't really see any other way than continued use of nuclear as a bridge technology. though I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether a similar trap looms that Germany fell into with over reliance on russian gas. It's not like we have to stop caring about power generation, climate change and co2 emissions in 15 years. Nor are we likely to have solved the problem of having reliable power during the days with little sun and wind (which typically is the time when you need it the most, since those days are usually during winter and are very cold), by relying on renewables. Sure you could have gas for power generation during those days, but then you are just trading in a type of power generation that pollutes more, kills more people on average, and have a higher enviornmental impact. That sounds like a really shitty solution. Your objection doesn't make any sense, since you will have even greater power demands in 15 years. We will still continue to reduce co2 emissions in 15 years. Environmental impact will still matter in 15 years (which once again, nuclear have the lowest of any power generation). Do you think the IPCC report scenarios imagined the nuclear power plants to magically just be built within a few years? Infrastructure usually take a long time to build. Yet we do it.
I'm not quite clear whether you understood my post in a different way to what i set it out to convey, but I'll reiterate.
Nuclear currently is about as helpful as starting a fracking business.
Will the price it offers will even remotely be competitive without state guaranteed revenue? If any power company is of that opinion, please build more power plants but don't ask for daddy state to guarantee prices. Do it with market forces. The state is gonna be busy with supporting industry with the zero carbon transition.
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On December 23 2022 02:14 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2022 00:24 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake. Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News. Do you even realise how elitist your post is? In summary: people who happened to have disagree with you are unable to understand intelligent message idiots, morons following a fascist, racists and Fox news watchers. Thats some first class labeling. "After all, these are the complaints of idiots" - you mean when people complain that they cant afford food, or heating? Now read carefully what you just said (I actually wonder if you even realise what you said here): "We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints" Brexit and Trump were answer to this very attitude. And you know what? The more of this "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" there will be, the more extreme this answer will become. Also "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" why use so many words to say "poor people"? Kwarks point is that their identified complaints are not 'the rent is to damn high' and 'I cant afford to feed my kids'. Those are not the talking points you get back if you talk to a Trump voter. You get immigrants, cancel culture or critical race theory being taught in schools. The Republicans didn't run the election on 'cheaper food and lower rent'.
Those are the complaints of idiots because none of those things are related to their problem of economic and social disenfranchisement.
Its like the poor person protesting the ACA. They are protesting because they have no money, but they are protesting against the wrong thing because government aid means they don't end up paying more but this time they will have actual healthcare coverage so they can get treatment if they get sick instead of not being able to afford treatment, getting more and more ill, losing their job and then ending up homeless.
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United States43380 Posts
On December 23 2022 02:14 Razyda wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2022 00:24 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake. Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News. Do you even realise how elitist your post is? In summary: people who happened to have disagree with you are unable to understand intelligent message idiots, morons following a fascist, racists and Fox news watchers. Thats some first class labeling. "After all, these are the complaints of idiots" - you mean when people complain that they cant afford food, or heating? Now read carefully what you just said (I actually wonder if you even realise what you said here): "We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints" Brexit and Trump were answer to this very attitude. And you know what? The more of this "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" there will be, the more extreme this answer will become. Also "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" why use so many words to say "poor people"?
I don’t see any way of describing these people without coming across as elitist. I am better than them. Elitist isn’t really the attack you seem to think it is, if you’re not better than them then I feel sorry for you.
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On December 23 2022 06:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2022 02:14 Razyda wrote:On December 23 2022 00:24 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake. Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News. Do you even realise how elitist your post is? In summary: people who happened to have disagree with you are unable to understand intelligent message idiots, morons following a fascist, racists and Fox news watchers. Thats some first class labeling. "After all, these are the complaints of idiots" - you mean when people complain that they cant afford food, or heating? Now read carefully what you just said (I actually wonder if you even realise what you said here): "We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints" Brexit and Trump were answer to this very attitude. And you know what? The more of this "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" there will be, the more extreme this answer will become. Also "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" why use so many words to say "poor people"? I don’t see any way of describing these people without coming across as elitist. I am better than them. Elitist isn’t really the attack you seem to think it is, if you’re not better than them then I feel sorry for you.
You're smarter than them. Deciding that it makes you a better human being is a separate point.
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United States43380 Posts
On December 23 2022 12:59 Nebuchad wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2022 06:35 KwarK wrote:On December 23 2022 02:14 Razyda wrote:On December 23 2022 00:24 KwarK wrote:On December 22 2022 18:23 Gorsameth wrote:On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote:
I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)".
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots?
If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake. Sure, it’s worth considering why he was able to capture the idiot vote so easily and why the intelligent message was unable to be properly communicated in ways that idiots can understand. In a democracy idiots get as much say as everyone else, I’m not saying that we shouldn’t learn lessons from Brexit or Trump. To me the lesson is that neoliberalism needs to do more to promote wealth equality and social cohesion to prevent being flanked by a fascist at the head of an army of morons. We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints. After all, these are the complaints of idiots. When they proclaim that they’re mostly upset about CRT the solution isn’t to reintroduce segregation, it’s to turn off Fox News. Do you even realise how elitist your post is? In summary: people who happened to have disagree with you are unable to understand intelligent message idiots, morons following a fascist, racists and Fox news watchers. Thats some first class labeling. "After all, these are the complaints of idiots" - you mean when people complain that they cant afford food, or heating? Now read carefully what you just said (I actually wonder if you even realise what you said here): "We can recognize the danger posed by economically and socially disenfranchised idiots without giving undue importance to their identified complaints" Brexit and Trump were answer to this very attitude. And you know what? The more of this "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" there will be, the more extreme this answer will become. Also "economically and socially disenfranchised idiots" why use so many words to say "poor people"? I don’t see any way of describing these people without coming across as elitist. I am better than them. Elitist isn’t really the attack you seem to think it is, if you’re not better than them then I feel sorry for you. You're smarter than them. Deciding that it makes you a better human being is a separate point.
It’s not about being smarter, though I am that. We’re talking about deplorables here, the racists, sexists, etc. The people who have no sense of agency in their lives and blame others for their own failings. There are plenty of people less smart than me who are better people than me. Just not them.
This is irrelevant to the main thrust of my previous argument though. I just objected to the attempted gotcha of “you sound like an elitist”. It didn’t address the substance of anything I’d said but even if I did sound like an elitist, who cares.
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On December 23 2022 04:16 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On December 23 2022 02:34 Neneu wrote:On December 22 2022 23:05 Artisreal wrote:On December 22 2022 19:48 Neneu wrote:On December 22 2022 18:46 Harris1st wrote:On December 22 2022 17:08 Silvanel wrote:
This is exactly what PiS needs to win elections again in Poland. They have been saying for a long time that price increases are the fault of EU. Lo and behold, here it comes.
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. Care to explain your reasoning behind this? I mean if fusion core technology is as good as it seems and will actually be available in the next 5-10 years, yeah sure nuclear is the way to go. The current nuclear isn't cutting it though. IMO A lot of downsides and the only upside is, that it's reliableReneweable is basically free energy after the initial invest. The only downside beeing that it's not reliable (yet) since storing is so difficult and expensive Germany stopped taxing this initial invest for 2023 for example which to me seems a step in the right direction. There's a few upsides you forgot. It has the lowest environmental impact of all electricity generation and also almost no CO2 emissions. Therefor in any scenario in IPCC reports where we are able to stay below 1.5 degrees global heating, it relies on a large increase of nuclear power generation. It is crazy how small the environmental impact of current nuclear power is compared to any other power generatinon, with minimal polution, waste and land requirements. It is also the energy generation that kills the least amount of people. Natural gas e.g. have historically killed 38 times more people per kWh produced. If you compare it with coal it is 387 times per kWh. There are a lot of upsides with nuclear power, if you want the safest future for your kids. What's the fastest a new reactor can realistically be built? 15 years? A bit llate for 1.5 degrees, isn't it? Though if I'm honest I can't really see any other way than continued use of nuclear as a bridge technology. though I'm not knowledgeable enough to say whether a similar trap looms that Germany fell into with over reliance on russian gas. It's not like we have to stop caring about power generation, climate change and co2 emissions in 15 years. Nor are we likely to have solved the problem of having reliable power during the days with little sun and wind (which typically is the time when you need it the most, since those days are usually during winter and are very cold), by relying on renewables. Sure you could have gas for power generation during those days, but then you are just trading in a type of power generation that pollutes more, kills more people on average, and have a higher enviornmental impact. That sounds like a really shitty solution. Your objection doesn't make any sense, since you will have even greater power demands in 15 years. We will still continue to reduce co2 emissions in 15 years. Environmental impact will still matter in 15 years (which once again, nuclear have the lowest of any power generation). Do you think the IPCC report scenarios imagined the nuclear power plants to magically just be built within a few years? Infrastructure usually take a long time to build. Yet we do it. I'm not quite clear whether you understood my post in a different way to what i set it out to convey, but I'll reiterate. Nuclear currently is about as helpful as starting a fracking business. Will the price it offers will even remotely be competitive without state guaranteed revenue? If any power company is of that opinion, please build more power plants but don't ask for daddy state to guarantee prices. Do it with market forces. The state is gonna be busy with supporting industry with the zero carbon transition.
Carbon emissions for nuclear energy are lower than for renewable energy over their lifetime.
Whatever you believe the problems with nuclear energy are (and there aren't nearly as many as the anti-nuclear lobby would have you believe), carbon emissions aren't one of them.
You're better than to regurgitate things that are objectively not true.
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EPT
