EPTEuropean Politico-economics QA Mega-thread - Page 1376
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KwarK
United States42008 Posts
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Sermokala
United States13754 Posts
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mahrgell
Germany3942 Posts
On December 21 2022 03:40 Sermokala wrote: I would be more worried if she were to suddenly die in the next few ways like that prison guard did in Minnesota. I'm not saying mossad would be willing to do a hit on NATO soil but I would not be shocked if they did. There is absolutely nothing secret about those... So your fantasies are kinda weird. It's not like anyone just figured out what she (and the other ones, who were convicted in the last handful of years) did as a job during those times. It was known all the time. The only thing that changed was the rather recent turnaround of Germany deciding to actually convict former KZ employees for assistance to murder. For 70 years the policy was kinda "If we can absolutely certainly prove you've killed someone, we may try to get you" And even then it was mostly forgotten. This changed very recently to "anyone who worked there is guilty in assisting murder, even if no specific action can be pointed at" | ||
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Razyda
524 Posts
https://www.euractiv.com/section/emissions-trading-scheme/news/eu-agrees-co2-tax-on-heating-and-transport-fuels-softened-by-new-social-climate-fund/ "EU legislators agreed early on Sunday (18 December) to introduce a carbon price on buildings and road transport fuels, with a new €87-billion social climate fund established in parallel to cushion the impact on households and help them invest in green solutions. The new carbon price will apply to petrol, diesel and heating fuels such as natural gas whose climate warming emissions have continued to rise over the years despite attempts to decarbonise." "The new scheme will entail higher prices at the pump: up to 10.5 cents for a litre of petrol and 12 cents for diesel, according to a study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Research. Heating fuels like gas, heating oil and coal will see their prices increase as well, to the detriment of poorer EU member states, which rely more heavily on dirty fossil heaters. “Citizens in the EU must expect higher CO2 prices,” explained Michael Bloss, a Green lawmaker who took part in the final negotiations on the ETS. With the ongoing energy crisis, the new scheme could be delayed by a year, until 2028, if energy prices remain “exceptionally high”, the Parliament said in a statement." How detached from reality they are? First of all - timing when they decided on it - massive inflation and energy crisis. Second - lots of people are already struggling, after this it will be so much worse. | ||
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KwarK
United States42008 Posts
On December 22 2022 10:59 Razyda wrote: Ok EU is going insane: https://www.euractiv.com/section/emissions-trading-scheme/news/eu-agrees-co2-tax-on-heating-and-transport-fuels-softened-by-new-social-climate-fund/ "EU legislators agreed early on Sunday (18 December) to introduce a carbon price on buildings and road transport fuels, with a new €87-billion social climate fund established in parallel to cushion the impact on households and help them invest in green solutions. The new carbon price will apply to petrol, diesel and heating fuels such as natural gas whose climate warming emissions have continued to rise over the years despite attempts to decarbonise." "The new scheme will entail higher prices at the pump: up to 10.5 cents for a litre of petrol and 12 cents for diesel, according to a study by the Potsdam Institute for Climate Research. Heating fuels like gas, heating oil and coal will see their prices increase as well, to the detriment of poorer EU member states, which rely more heavily on dirty fossil heaters. “Citizens in the EU must expect higher CO2 prices,” explained Michael Bloss, a Green lawmaker who took part in the final negotiations on the ETS. With the ongoing energy crisis, the new scheme could be delayed by a year, until 2028, if energy prices remain “exceptionally high”, the Parliament said in a statement." How detached from reality they are? First of all - timing when they decided on it - massive inflation and energy crisis. Second - lots of people are already struggling, after this it will be so much worse. Surely a hydrocarbon energy crisis is the perfect time to try to move away from hydrocarbons. Also I don’t think climate collapse from atmospheric CO2 can be convinced to wait a few years until the economy is healthier. Basically how detached from reality can you possibly be? The scientists are saying that we move away from CO2 or the climate collapses and you’re saying “but the economy” | ||
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Razyda
524 Posts
On December 22 2022 11:04 KwarK wrote: Surely a hydrocarbon energy crisis is the perfect time to try to move away from hydrocarbons. Also I don’t think climate collapse from atmospheric CO2 can be convinced to wait a few years until the economy is healthier. Basically how detached from reality can you possibly be? The scientists are saying that we move away from CO2 or the climate collapses and you’re saying “but the economy” I am not saying economy I am saying people lives. I think you may find out, that for massive amounts of people dying in 20-50 years due to climate collapse is preferable to dying in 5 years from starvation/freezing to death. I am honestly more and more convinced that Brexit and Trump happened not because suddenly half+ of voters turned into blood thirsty right wingers, but because people get desperate and dont know what to do anymore. I dont think you understand the situation in which many of blue collar workers are now, particularly in poorer countries of EU are. Many of them are either burning through their savings, or going into debt. Not because they irresponsible, but because they dont have other choice. Throw this at them and then please explain, what they should do? | ||
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Sermokala
United States13754 Posts
People voted for trump and brexit because dumb people would rather side with the person who claims they have an easy solution rather than the person who tells you what the honest but hard truth. Valuing short term relief over long term cures is bad. If you had a solution to the problem that you felt comfortable sharing I believe that you would have wanted to share that. | ||
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arbiter_md
Moldova1219 Posts
Now they can start working on removing the bureaucracy related to deploying renewables and creating mechanisms to turn the nimbys into promoters. Then they can finally have a way forward on reducing their dependency on all sorts of dictators. Also, when making these taxes they should focus on stating the way those money will be spent. So that people see the carrot better than the stick. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4591 Posts
I might understand a lesser of 2 evils angle, but it seems that's not even what you're saying. The entire Trump and Brexit narrative stems from people being disenfranchised and them capitalizing on that fact, seeing an opportunity to cash in on. If you keep blaming it on "dumb people" you'll keep falling for the same thing again and again until the world is so polarized you'll wonder why people were ever choosing or voting to begin with, when "obviously" the dumb people choose for the dumb easy choice and the smart people choose for the smart difficult choice. Get some nuance in your ideology, please. | ||
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KwarK
United States42008 Posts
On December 22 2022 11:34 Razyda wrote: I am not saying economy I am saying people lives. I think you may find out, that for massive amounts of people dying in 20-50 years due to climate collapse is preferable to dying in 5 years from starvation/freezing to death. I am honestly more and more convinced that Brexit and Trump happened not because suddenly half+ of voters turned into blood thirsty right wingers, but because people get desperate and dont know what to do anymore. I dont think you understand the situation in which many of blue collar workers are now, particularly in poorer countries of EU are. Many of them are either burning through their savings, or going into debt. Not because they irresponsible, but because they dont have other choice. Throw this at them and then please explain, what they should do? They should stop voting for billionaires. If you’re poor and desperate then you don’t support the guy who takes what should have been your pay increase as a dividend. You don’t support the guy who outsourced your job. This shit isn’t hard and I’m not sure how you’re not getting it. | ||
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KwarK
United States42008 Posts
On December 22 2022 16:34 Uldridge wrote: If you think the politicians other than Nigel Farage and Donald Trump are "telling hard truths", I can do nothing else than say you're delusional. I might understand a lesser of 2 evils angle, but it seems that's not even what you're saying. The entire Trump and Brexit narrative stems from people being disenfranchised and them capitalizing on that fact, seeing an opportunity to cash in on. If you keep blaming it on "dumb people" you'll keep falling for the same thing again and again until the world is so polarized you'll wonder why people were ever choosing or voting to begin with, when "obviously" the dumb people choose for the dumb easy choice and the smart people choose for the smart difficult choice. Get some nuance in your ideology, please. They literally were. That’s the whole Trump thing. Most politicians on the border: “well it’s a complicated issue and there’s no one size fits all solution to immigration” Trump: “build a wall the entire length of the border and also it’ll be free and somehow jobs” Most politicians on the Middle East: “well it’s complicated, nation building isn’t easy or quick etc.” Trump: “our generals are idiots who don’t know about the element of surprise but I’ll teach them about it and then we’ll kill their families and they’ll love us” Most politicians on trade: “well it’s complicated, we live in a world built on strategic partnerships and even with our rivals there are interdependencies that must be considered” Trump: “so the balance of trade deficit is like a plane filled with hundred dollar bills but like trillions of them and Obama flies that plane to China and he just gives them your money and I’m going to turn that plane around” This isn’t hyperbole. These right wing voters are colossal idiots. Obviously there are idiots on the left too, but there aren’t any smart people on the right. It’s exclusively idiots looking for simple answers to problems they’re incapable of understanding. | ||
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Silvanel
Poland4692 Posts
Personally I have been long time of opinion that renewables wont fix anything and the only road forward is nuclear. So I am not a fan of this legislation. We will end in a dystopian world when only rich people are able to travel or heat their homes. I am like 99% sure that fuel for privet jets will be exempt from this tax. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4591 Posts
I like to think many of them are so disgruntled with the current landscape of bullshit status quo meandering that they'd vote for anything remotely different, even if that means Trump or Brexit. Maybe, the millions of colossal idiots voting like this are a symptom of a society that just doesn't really work for them. Should we just dismiss them? I don't know, maybe I'm too sympathetic to people thinking certain ways.. | ||
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Slydie
1899 Posts
On December 22 2022 16:59 KwarK wrote: They literally were. That’s the whole Trump thing. Most politicians on the border: “well it’s a complicated issue and there’s no one size fits all solution to immigration” Trump: “build a wall the entire length of the border and also it’ll be free and somehow jobs” Most politicians on the Middle East: “well it’s complicated, nation building isn’t easy or quick etc.” Trump: “our generals are idiots who don’t know about the element of surprise but I’ll teach them about it and then we’ll kill their families and they’ll love us” Most politicians on trade: “well it’s complicated, we live in a world built on strategic partnerships and even with our rivals there are interdependencies that must be considered” Trump: “so the balance of trade deficit is like a plane filled with hundred dollar bills but like trillions of them and Obama flies that plane to China and he just gives them your money and I’m going to turn that plane around” This isn’t hyperbole. These right wing voters are colossal idiots. Obviously there are idiots on the left too, but there aren’t any smart people on the right. It’s exclusively idiots looking for simple answers to problems they’re incapable of understanding. This is a rant about general populism, not necessarily right wing politics. Populism is found all over the political spectrum, and I don't think it is possible to have a successful party without at least some degree of populism. I don't think it is fair stick all of Trump's quotes on all of his voters. Trump is becoming irrelevant anyway. | ||
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Mikau313
Netherlands229 Posts
On December 22 2022 17:11 Uldridge wrote: I really wish they are all colossal idiots, really, it would be so easy to dismiss millions of people. I like to think many of them are so disgruntled with the current landscape of bullshit status quo meandering that they'd vote for anything remotely different, even if that means Trump or Brexit. Maybe, the millions of colossal idiots voting like this are a symptom of a society that just doesn't really work for them. Should we just dismiss them? I don't know, maybe I'm too sympathetic to people thinking certain ways.. I'll reserve my sympathy for people who don't vote in fascist wannabe dictators who do nothing but line the pockets of the rich over the back of the people they con into voting for them. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11340 Posts
On December 22 2022 16:59 KwarK wrote: They literally were. That’s the whole Trump thing. Most politicians on the border: “well it’s a complicated issue and there’s no one size fits all solution to immigration” Trump: “build a wall the entire length of the border and also it’ll be free and somehow jobs” Most politicians on the Middle East: “well it’s complicated, nation building isn’t easy or quick etc.” Trump: “our generals are idiots who don’t know about the element of surprise but I’ll teach them about it and then we’ll kill their families and they’ll love us” Most politicians on trade: “well it’s complicated, we live in a world built on strategic partnerships and even with our rivals there are interdependencies that must be considered” Trump: “so the balance of trade deficit is like a plane filled with hundred dollar bills but like trillions of them and Obama flies that plane to China and he just gives them your money and I’m going to turn that plane around” This isn’t hyperbole. These right wing voters are colossal idiots. Obviously there are idiots on the left too, but there aren’t any smart people on the right. It’s exclusively idiots looking for simple answers to problems they’re incapable of understanding. I think that is unfair. Not all of them are idiots. Some of them are grifters who take advantage of the idiots. And some of them are bigotted assholes who think that accepting the idiocy is a necessary evil so they get more of their bigotry. | ||
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Uldridge
Belgium4591 Posts
If you feel screwed over election cycle after election cycle, should you vote for more of the same, or will you try the radically different, because, it might actually bring something different for once? Voting for the same old is interesting if your life is more or less fine, status quo won't necessarily screw you over. You have your chances and priviliges and can just - incrementally - build up your life. Many people have had their fill with how the show was/is ran. I can understand them at least for trying to upset that, maybe as a wake-up call to those that are so entrenched in that system. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21373 Posts
Millennials supposedly being the first generation in modern history that is worse off then their parents (I say supposedly because I haven't looked that much deeper into how true this is) forms a basis for the populists and grifters to feed on. | ||
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Mikau313
Netherlands229 Posts
And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots? If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. | ||
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21373 Posts
On December 22 2022 18:20 Mikau313 wrote: I'm not saying their choice makes logical sense, I'm saying just dismissing them out of hand because they are idiots without atleast some reflection on what drives them to make their dumb choice is probably a mistake.I genuinely don't understand when people make the argument of "politicians screw me over, so I'll vote for somebody who is very clearly going to screw me over worse than any politician would (with a side of everything-phobia and eroding civil rights)". And then you get people who take an issue when people call the people with that awful logic idiots? If you vote against your best interest, for somebody who has made it abundantly clear that he is against your best interests, then you're either an idiot or simply malicious. | ||
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