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On February 03 2018 03:34 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 03:30 sharkie wrote:On February 03 2018 03:19 Artisreal wrote:On February 03 2018 03:07 sharkie wrote:On February 03 2018 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On February 01 2018 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On February 01 2018 18:23 TheDwf wrote:
(3) Young males perceived as “Arabs” or “Blacks” are 20 times more likely to be controlled than the rest of the population. Time and time again, numerous studies have proved the reality of contrôles au faciès [racial profiling] in identity checks. The French State has been condamned for “discriminatory controls” in 2016 by our highest judicial instance. During the trial, the State defended itself saying, in substance: “I'm looking for undocumented strangers, it is only natural that I control Arabs and Blacks more!” (I'm not even kidding.). Yes, a truly oppressive use of logic. A white in France is just as likely to be an undocumented foreigner as an arab or a black. Also, I am certain there are statistics somewhere showing that whites in France commit as many crimes as arabs/blacks do, even adjusting for different population size. A friend of mine doesn't want to use the trains anymore because he's been controlled so fucking much. I've never been controlled in my entire life. He's got an afro haircut and has a rather light brasilian brown as his skin colour. Guess what, I'm white and blonde. Great society we're making here. Fucking great. Is this post for real? I am happy when I am checked for a ticket since I always buy one. Haha, tell your friend to stop being so sensitive It is not about a ticket. It's about having to open your suitcase and being searched. If what you said was true I would have totally gone and submitted official complaints because that is pure harassment. You live in Germany, that stuff works there. But if it is different officers every time, which is likely, what will change?
I don't know about the US but checking suitcases of people is not the norm in Germany. This is harassment and it will change if official complaints are made. Those officers will be told to stop that behaviour especially if they keep doing it to the same person. Not saying anything in this case will only promote their behaviour even more.
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Agree, this sounds strange.
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Indeed. Definitively not normal in german trains. Maybe something that happens in trains that go through a non-open border, like outside of the EU?
It fits stories about stuff happening when entering the eastern block states before 1990, but i assume that is not the situation being talked about here?
Normal situation within germany:
Long distance trains: Tickets almost always get checked, for everyone on the train. If you are only on it for one station, the conductor might miss you though.
Short distance/public city transportation: ticket checks are rare, and probably at least slightly profiled, but usually the conductors check everyone on one train car. They do seem to start with people who they think look suspicious though, and a racial component might be involved
Opening luggage: Doesn't happen. I would go wtf if a train conductor asked me to open my luggage, as that is simply not within their job. I do a 4+ hour train ride about 2-6 times a year for 10 years now, and have never seen that happen. Neither have i ever heard or read about it happening in a german train.
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I think he's just talking about police asking his friend to show what's in his pocket/bag/suitcase. That in itself is not strange. The frequency might be.
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What Sent. said.
He's not asked by the train personell but singled out by authorities on the train stations. Mainly something like Berlin central or similar. Basically no matter where in the republic.
"Randomly" searched.
he doesn't even look dangerous or something. The sweet teddy bear he is...
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On February 03 2018 04:37 Sent. wrote:
I think he's just talking about police asking his friend to show what's in his pocket/bag/suitcase. That in itself is not strange. The frequency might be.
I've never really seen this in the train or at a train station either and I have quite a few friends who have a darker skin.
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I read today some CIA guidelines for avoiding arising suspicions/being seearch at airports. Its pretty basic stuff and among other things there is behvior. Being nervous, acting weird etc, is quick way to being searched. I saw this in person at Frankfurt airport. There was a guy (white) looking nervous, sweating, looking around like he is scared etc. He was pulled from the line for detailed check by armed police (not usual aiport security). I was sure he was either sick or smuggling/doing drugs. Anyway my point is police, border guards, aiport and train security has some guidelines what to look for. If You do some things from the list its a quick way to get checked in detail.
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Or the police/boarder guard or whatever in his area could be racially profiling him and stopping him because he is black. Coming from the US, the Boston police and not the LA police. One of those is way more racist and terrible. And both of them are not the undying nightmare that is the Chicago police department. We all live in different parts of the world.
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When the far-right does "racial profiling" ...
Italy: failed Northern League candidate held over migrant shootings
A failed election candidate for Italy’s far-right Northern League has been arrested after a gunman targeted African migrants in a two-hour drive-by shooting spree in the Italian city of Macerata.
Luca Traini, 28, was arrested after six people were shot in the small city near Italy’s east coast, 200km (125 miles) east of Rome. Police said the attack appeared to be racially motivated.
A video posted by the newspaper Il Resto di Carlino showed armed officers arresting a man with an Italian flag draped over his shoulders in the city centre, near where he apparently fled his car on foot.
“He drove around in his car and when he saw any coloured people he shot them,” Marcello Mancini, a Macerata resident, told Reuters. Romano Carancini, the city’s mayor, confirmed that six foreign nationals, all of them black, had been wounded in the shooting spree. One had life-threatening injuries, he said.
The ruling centre-left Democratic party said Traini had stood as a candidate for the Northern League at local elections last year and also accused him of firing shots at one of their offices in Macerata before he was arrested.
The Northern League’s leader, Matteo Salvini, distanced himself from the shooting, but said unrestrained immigration was causing social strife. “I can’t wait to get into government to restore security, social justice and serenity to Italy,” he said.
The shootings happened days after a Nigerian was arrested in connection with the death of an 18-year-old Italian woman, Pamela Mastropietro, whose dismembered body was discovered hidden in two suitcases near Macerata.
Rightwingers campaigning before national elections on 4 March have leapt on Mastropietro’s death to promote their anti-migrant message. The suspect, Innocent Oseghale, who was denied asylum last year but has remained in Italy, has refused to talk to police.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/feb/03/driver-opens-fire-african-migrants-italian-city-macerata
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And here I thought you didn't like using anecdotes to support an argument... I also can't help but notice you do not apply the same standard to the Nigerians as you do to the right-wingers.
Hypocrite.
+ Show Spoiler +I'm obviously not defending the shooter - the man is deranged (as is anyone who dismembers another person, much more so in the case of an 18-year old girl). But considering your very own outrage over racial profiling based supposedly on anecdotal evidence (according to countries which records ethnicity, it's actually statistically very sound), the hypocrisy simply becomes too much.
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I don't understand your post at all.
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Anecdotes are bad. Regardless of whether they confirm or refute our personal convictions.
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On February 04 2018 22:18 Ghostcom wrote:
Anecdotes are bad. Regardless of whether they confirm or refute our personal convictions.
I am not using any "anecdote," + Show Spoiler +nice to see that shooting people in the streets based on their ethnicity is an "anecdote" to you by the way 
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On February 04 2018 22:22 TheDwf wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 22:18 Ghostcom wrote:
Anecdotes are bad. Regardless of whether they confirm or refute our personal convictions. I am not using any "anecdote," + Show Spoiler +nice to see that shooting people in the streets based on their ethnicity is an "anecdote" to you by the way I share an information regarding a probably racist attack.
Ah but you are. You are using this "information" to characterize the far-right and frame them all as deranged lunatics who are just waiting for a chance to open fire on innocents.
+ Show Spoiler +Since you want to exchange petty insults and strawmen: Nice to see that you don't consider the dismemberment of an 18-year old girl worthy of talking about - that news broke a week ago but you didn't feel like sharing that. Your hypocrisy goes even deeper than I thought possible.
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On February 04 2018 22:30 Ghostcom wrote:Show nested quote +On February 04 2018 22:22 TheDwf wrote:On February 04 2018 22:18 Ghostcom wrote:
Anecdotes are bad. Regardless of whether they confirm or refute our personal convictions. I am not using any "anecdote," + Show Spoiler +nice to see that shooting people in the streets based on their ethnicity is an "anecdote" to you by the way I share an information regarding a probably racist attack. Ah but you are. You are using this information to characterize the right-wingers. + Show Spoiler +Since you want to exchange petty insults and strawmen: Nice to see that you don't consider the dismemberment of an 18-year old girl worthy of talking about - that news broke a week ago but you didn't feel like sharing that. Your hypocrisy goes even deeper than I thought possible.
I really don't understand how you reason. I talk about a far-right attack, and somehow I am "characterizing the right-wingers"? Hu?
+ Show Spoiler +That must be because as a left-winger, I thoroughly endorse crime!
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The appropriate comment to your news article isn't "When the far-right does "racial profiling" ..." if you want to avoid anecdotes. It is "Deranged man goes on racist shooting spree".
+ Show Spoiler +Whether you endorse crime or not I'll leave up to you. I merely replied to your stupid accusations with your own branch of "logic" - if you take issue with that, maybe revise the way you post.
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On February 04 2018 23:02 Ghostcom wrote:The appropriate comment to your news article isn't "When the far-right does "racial profiling" ..." if you want to avoid anecdotes. It is "Deranged man goes on racist shooting spree". + Show Spoiler +Whether you endorse crime or not I'll leave up to you. I merely replied to your stupid accusations with your own branch of "logic" - if you take issue with that, maybe revise the way you post.
Why deranged? Is there any proof of mental health problem with the guy? Or is it a case of this:
+ Show Spoiler +
As for the "anecdote" part, I still don't get what you're trying to say. Do you claim that this attack is an "anecdote" because this behaviour is not representative of the far-right? In which case yes for shooting people in the streets, but no for being xenophobic and racist; which is how he seemingly chose his targets. So there's definitely a link.
What "stupid accusations"? And you might be the one who needs to revise the way you post, since pretty much each time I read you here you seem overly passive aggressive...
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May i intersect here, before you bite each others head off?
The point Ghostcom is making that anecdotal evidence is not a good source of policy, and also not very good at supporting an argument. The common fallacy here works along the lines of "x happened to me, so it must happen a lot", or "I hear about x all the time, it must be very common". "Anecdotal" in this case does not mean "funny story that happened to me", it means "singular account of something happening" as opposed to empirical evidence, meaning "mathematically valid statistical proof"
On the other hand, anecdotal evidence is good for starting conversations and figuring out directions in which to lead empirical investigations. A world in which only empirically proven facts are ever mentioned does not work very well either, because it lacks the questions that the empirical science tries to answer.
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On February 04 2018 23:23 Simberto wrote:
May i intersect here, before you bite each others head off?
The point Ghostcom is making that anecdotal evidence is not a good source of policy, and also not very good at supporting an argument. The common fallacy here works along the lines of "x happened to me, so it must happen a lot", or "I hear about x all the time, it must be very common". "Anecdotal" in this case does not mean "funny story that happened to me", it means "singular account of something happening" as opposed to empirical evidence, meaning "mathematically valid statistical proof"
On the other hand, anecdotal evidence is good for starting conversations and figuring out directions in which to lead empirical investigations. A world in which only empirically proven facts are ever mentioned does not work very well either, because it lacks the questions that the empirical science tries to answer.
Ghostcom's assertion that retitling TheDwf's article as some non-sequitur "deranged man..." story would "avoid anecdotes" suggests that you are interpreting his criticism far too liberally. Choosing to label the attacker a deranged man or a former right-wing political candidate does nothing to the anecdotal quality of the story posted. Given available information, however, one is far more accurate than the other.
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There might be also a slight misunderstanding due to language. In Portugal for example, 'anedota' is usually used as a synonym for joke and it's never really used in the same meaning as 'anecdotal evidence'. The word might be used in the same way in France which might explain why TheDwf took particular offense in it. Just speculating.
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EPT![[image loading]](https://i.imgur.com/elnLWs9.jpg?1)
