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On February 03 2018 00:16 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On February 02 2018 23:30 Big J wrote:
If your only job is to attend parliament and you get a ton of tax money for it you have to attend. Everything else is a grave violation of democratic representation.
If it is clear that parties vote in line beforehand, even for outsiders like us, then this is a grave violation of MP's being obligated to represent in their own best concsience and over party interests. Then there is something fundamentally wrong with the current parliamentary systems. I guess we're lucky then that attending parliament isn't the only job of an MP. There is no reason for everyone to be around in cases where the outcome is non-controversial across party lines. In Germany for example any of the parliamentary groups or 5% of the people attending has the ability to push for postponing a vote until at least half of all MPs are around which is designed to stop any sudden surprises (e.g. one parliamentary group showing up in full force all of a sudden against agreed upon consensus). The only reason to do that in other cases is to piss everyone else off. Since 1990 our parliament was pretty consensus driven so these cases were rather rare, but it's a decent spot to disrupt the procedure and throw away the tax payers money if any of the parliamentary groups choose to do so. That is something people should be annoyed by if it's done without a proper reason. Saying "in this case I can fully accept the position of my party" is a choice made based on one's conscience after all. For cases where you have a lot of dissent within parties you simply agree to have everyone show up. That's why our vote for same-sex marriage had 623 votes total (a lot of people from one party voted for something different than the majority view of their party) and the NetzDG came through with ~50. Both are completely legitimate, by design, so that MPs can spend their time (and hence our money) more efficiently.
Which other job does an MP have? Of course they can have secondary jobs, pretty much all of them are working most of their time for their parties. But that's not a part of their job as MP of the republic that pays them, that's just their private hobby (or in case the party pays them, their secondary job which obviously should be forbidden alltogether. Someone earning 8k € from the republic should obviously work 10 hours a day at minimum for said republic and shouldn't have the spare time for other jobs. Probably even more, since the norm for top managers is quite beyond that).
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On February 01 2018 22:13 Karpfen wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2018 18:23 TheDwf wrote:
(3) Young males perceived as “Arabs” or “Blacks” are 20 times more likely to be controlled than the rest of the population. Time and time again, numerous studies have proved the reality of contrôles au faciès [racial profiling] in identity checks. The French State has been condamned for “discriminatory controls” in 2016 by our highest judicial instance. During the trial, the State defended itself saying, in substance: “I'm looking for undocumented strangers, it is only natural that I control Arabs and Blacks more!” (I'm not even kidding.). Yes, a truly oppressive use of logic. A white in France is just as likely to be an undocumented foreigner as an arab or a black. Also, I am certain there are statistics somewhere showing that whites in France commit as many crimes as arabs/blacks do, even adjusting for different population size.
A friend of mine doesn't want to use the trains anymore because he's been controlled so fucking much.
I've never been controlled in my entire life.
He's got an afro haircut and has a rather light brasilian brown as his skin colour.
Guess what, I'm white and blonde.
Great society we're making here. Fucking great.
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I've never been controlled in my entire life.
How often do you travel by train?
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My brother is as white as you get and got in controls all the time while he had long hair (all else he dressed pretty normal).
Police doesn't profile by race, they do by looks/type.
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On February 03 2018 02:24 Velr wrote:
My brother is as white as you get and got in controls all the time while he had long hair (all else he dressed pretty normal).
Police doesn't profile by race, they do by looks/type.
"Data doesn't exist, here is my anecdotal evidence which proves that I am true and you are wrong"
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I don't say the data is wrong. I say just because it shows racial profiling it doesn't necessarily mean racism.
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On February 03 2018 02:37 Velr wrote:
I don't say the data is wrong. I say just because it shows racial profiling it doesn't necessarily mean racism.
You said that "police doesn't profile by race". It's wrong. Young; male; dressed in a certain way are also parameters, but "race" is definitely one too.
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On February 03 2018 02:24 Sent. wrote:How often do you travel by train?
On average during the recent years I'd say 1,5 to two times per month (return). Long distance trains.
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On February 03 2018 02:37 Velr wrote:
I don't say the data is wrong. I say just because it shows racial profiling it doesn't necessarily mean racism.
Although I disagree with this point, let’s take it a step further:
Racial profiling doesn’t always mean racism, but it does empower racists and undermine peoples trust in the rule of law. By allowing it, it gives racists a powerful tool and justification for their bigotry. It also confirm that police are selecting who they stop based on race, rather than their actions.
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I see how it is problematic, I just think the jump to "systemic racism" is done a bit quickly. I know full well that this makes me sound like a right winger, which I'm not, but i don't see an actual practical solution for the problem.
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On February 03 2018 02:46 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:24 Sent. wrote:I've never been controlled in my entire life. How often do you travel by train? On average during the recent years I'd say 1,5 to two times per month (return). Long distance trains.
Maybe it's different in German long distance trains, but here controllers don't pick their "victims", they just start from the first or last car and control everyone on their path until the whole train is checked.
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On February 03 2018 02:51 Velr wrote:
I see how it is problematic, I just think the jump to "systemic racism" is done a bit quickly. I know full well that this makes me sound like a right winger, which I'm not, but i don't see an actual practical solution for the problem.
By "systemic" I meant the logic of the institution, and not every single cop. Just precising.
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On February 03 2018 02:20 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 01 2018 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On February 01 2018 18:23 TheDwf wrote:
(3) Young males perceived as “Arabs” or “Blacks” are 20 times more likely to be controlled than the rest of the population. Time and time again, numerous studies have proved the reality of contrôles au faciès [racial profiling] in identity checks. The French State has been condamned for “discriminatory controls” in 2016 by our highest judicial instance. During the trial, the State defended itself saying, in substance: “I'm looking for undocumented strangers, it is only natural that I control Arabs and Blacks more!” (I'm not even kidding.). Yes, a truly oppressive use of logic. A white in France is just as likely to be an undocumented foreigner as an arab or a black. Also, I am certain there are statistics somewhere showing that whites in France commit as many crimes as arabs/blacks do, even adjusting for different population size. A friend of mine doesn't want to use the trains anymore because he's been controlled so fucking much. I've never been controlled in my entire life. He's got an afro haircut and has a rather light brasilian brown as his skin colour. Guess what, I'm white and blonde. Great society we're making here. Fucking great.
Is this post for real? I am happy when I am checked for a ticket since I always buy one.
Haha, tell your friend to stop being so sensitive
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On February 03 2018 02:51 Velr wrote:
I see how it is problematic, I just think the jump to "systemic racism" is done a bit quickly. I know full well that this makes me sound like a right winger, which I'm not, but i don't see an actual practical solution for the problem.
Systematic racism isn’t always due to human bias. Laws can be written that negatively impact a specific demographic completely without malice. It happens all the time on the weirdest thing. We had a school in my state that enacted a dress code, including hair styles. They strictly enforced it, which caused them to suspend every black girl in the school for hair extensions(black folks have unique issues with their hair and extensions are a way to avoid them). The school doubled down, even though they wrote a rule that negatively impacted a specific race. Then the state stepped in and said “Yo, knock it off please. This is both racist and deeply stupid.” There was no malice in writing the rule. Though there was a little malice in doubling down on the rule.
Racism is the result, rather than the intent. Or at least that is how people use the word in relation to laws. Racial profiling is just one of those things that will always lead to more criminal charges against a specific race.
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Nice contrast between the quality of the two posts above.
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On February 03 2018 03:07 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On February 01 2018 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On February 01 2018 18:23 TheDwf wrote:
(3) Young males perceived as “Arabs” or “Blacks” are 20 times more likely to be controlled than the rest of the population. Time and time again, numerous studies have proved the reality of contrôles au faciès [racial profiling] in identity checks. The French State has been condamned for “discriminatory controls” in 2016 by our highest judicial instance. During the trial, the State defended itself saying, in substance: “I'm looking for undocumented strangers, it is only natural that I control Arabs and Blacks more!” (I'm not even kidding.). Yes, a truly oppressive use of logic. A white in France is just as likely to be an undocumented foreigner as an arab or a black. Also, I am certain there are statistics somewhere showing that whites in France commit as many crimes as arabs/blacks do, even adjusting for different population size. A friend of mine doesn't want to use the trains anymore because he's been controlled so fucking much. I've never been controlled in my entire life. He's got an afro haircut and has a rather light brasilian brown as his skin colour. Guess what, I'm white and blonde. Great society we're making here. Fucking great. Is this post for real? I am happy when I am checked for a ticket since I always buy one. Haha, tell your friend to stop being so sensitive
It is not about a ticket.
It's about having to open your suitcase and being searched.
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On February 03 2018 03:19 Artisreal wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 03:07 sharkie wrote:On February 03 2018 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On February 01 2018 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On February 01 2018 18:23 TheDwf wrote:
(3) Young males perceived as “Arabs” or “Blacks” are 20 times more likely to be controlled than the rest of the population. Time and time again, numerous studies have proved the reality of contrôles au faciès [racial profiling] in identity checks. The French State has been condamned for “discriminatory controls” in 2016 by our highest judicial instance. During the trial, the State defended itself saying, in substance: “I'm looking for undocumented strangers, it is only natural that I control Arabs and Blacks more!” (I'm not even kidding.). Yes, a truly oppressive use of logic. A white in France is just as likely to be an undocumented foreigner as an arab or a black. Also, I am certain there are statistics somewhere showing that whites in France commit as many crimes as arabs/blacks do, even adjusting for different population size. A friend of mine doesn't want to use the trains anymore because he's been controlled so fucking much. I've never been controlled in my entire life. He's got an afro haircut and has a rather light brasilian brown as his skin colour. Guess what, I'm white and blonde. Great society we're making here. Fucking great. Is this post for real? I am happy when I am checked for a ticket since I always buy one. Haha, tell your friend to stop being so sensitive It is not about a ticket. It's about having to open your suitcase and being searched.
If what you said was true I would have totally gone and submitted official complaints because that is pure harassment. You live in Germany, that stuff works there.
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On February 03 2018 03:30 sharkie wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 03:19 Artisreal wrote:On February 03 2018 03:07 sharkie wrote:On February 03 2018 02:20 Artisreal wrote:On February 01 2018 22:13 Karpfen wrote:On February 01 2018 18:23 TheDwf wrote:
(3) Young males perceived as “Arabs” or “Blacks” are 20 times more likely to be controlled than the rest of the population. Time and time again, numerous studies have proved the reality of contrôles au faciès [racial profiling] in identity checks. The French State has been condamned for “discriminatory controls” in 2016 by our highest judicial instance. During the trial, the State defended itself saying, in substance: “I'm looking for undocumented strangers, it is only natural that I control Arabs and Blacks more!” (I'm not even kidding.). Yes, a truly oppressive use of logic. A white in France is just as likely to be an undocumented foreigner as an arab or a black. Also, I am certain there are statistics somewhere showing that whites in France commit as many crimes as arabs/blacks do, even adjusting for different population size. A friend of mine doesn't want to use the trains anymore because he's been controlled so fucking much. I've never been controlled in my entire life. He's got an afro haircut and has a rather light brasilian brown as his skin colour. Guess what, I'm white and blonde. Great society we're making here. Fucking great. Is this post for real? I am happy when I am checked for a ticket since I always buy one. Haha, tell your friend to stop being so sensitive It is not about a ticket. It's about having to open your suitcase and being searched. If what you said was true I would have totally gone and submitted official complaints because that is pure harassment. You live in Germany, that stuff works there.
But if it is different officers every time, which is likely, what will change?
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After 3 years of lots of long distance travelling (Cologne-Karlsruhe/Regensburg) several times a month I never saw someone being checke :-O
Not saying I don't believe it, just surprised this even exists. Literally never seen it. He should really complain officially.
To make clear: Like Artisreal only talking about searching the suitcase etc. Checking the ticket is 95% normal. Only if the train is absolutely packed or you completly ignore the "anybody entered since the last stop?"-question.
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On February 03 2018 02:59 Sent. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 03 2018 02:46 Artisreal wrote:On February 03 2018 02:24 Sent. wrote:I've never been controlled in my entire life. How often do you travel by train? On average during the recent years I'd say 1,5 to two times per month (return). Long distance trains. Maybe it's different in German long distance trains, but here controllers don't pick their "victims", they just start from the first or last car and control everyone on their path until the whole train is checked.
Its not different. At least on hight speed train near Frankfurt i used last year.
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EPT
