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+ Show Spoiler +On November 29 2006 12:06 dancefayedance!~ wrote:I know yout post isn't entirely concerned with what I'm about to post, but it wouldn't make much sense if you didnt understand where im basing my opinion of off. Probably confusing you. I remember being in the same boat as you. I was pretty depressed not for myself but for other people with the same diposition as the one you're describing. Then one day my girlfriend stumbled upon an excerpt from self-reliance by ralph waldo emerson. + Show Spoiler +1) There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried. 2) Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being. 3) Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs. 4) Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. 5) What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. This rule, equally arduous in actual and in intellectual life, may serve for the whole distinction between greatness and meanness. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude. 6) There is a mortifying experience in particular, which does not fail to wreak itself also in the general history; I mean "the foolish face of praise," the forced smile which we put on in company where we do not feel at ease in answer to conversation which does not interest us. The muscles, not spontaneously moved, but moved by a low usurping wilfulness, grow tight about the outline of the face with the most disagreeable sensation. For nonconformity the world whips you with its displeasure. And therefore a man must know how to estimate a sour face. 7) The other terror that scares us from self-trust is our consistency; a reverence for our past act or word, because the eyes of others have no other data for computing our orbit than our past acts, and we are loath to disappoint them. 8) Why drag about this corpse of your memory, lest you contradict somewhat you have stated in this or that public place? Suppose you should contradict yourself; what then? It seems to be a rule of wisdom never to rely on your memory alone, scarcely even in acts of pure memory, but to bring the past for judgment into the thousand-eyed present, and live ever in a new day. 9) A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.—'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.'—Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood. I have more to say, but I think reading this first would make it clearer. Once you read this intothewow, pm me and I can send you a discussion, that really elaborates on my views and your views, that I had with my girlfriend. It is really long to post here and I don't know if you'd even be interested..so... your choice
this reminds me of the transcendentalists (or how ever you spell that). look <---- the fact that i had to write that shows that it is human nature to appeal to other human beings. i think people act differently around different people in order to show that different person that they will be worthwhile (this mostly occurs with people and their gf or bf). i do not know why this happens but it is very over abundant for some reason. maybe it just mixes things up and/or disguises the monotony of every day life? one of my friends from school used to be a video game nerd guy who played WoW 12 hours a day. now he is a very socially liked person who smokes weed, drinks and hangs out with many people daily. he doesnt care about school, but he likes a certain teacher who knows that he doesnt care and in a way supports him. i know this because one day he wrote a paper about how little he really cares about school and he got a 100%, which is a very rare grade to get.
he is what i would call a non-conformist but does he do it for himself or to please other people with his presence? he seems to be fine and "happy" but my other friend mentioned to me that he was moderately depressed. does it take away from yourself to please others? if so, is it because you don't have any time to yourself to reflect on ideas.
another thought i had was about the "routine" argument and how monotony can get very repetitive and boring but nobody seems to care. nobody stands out and says, HEY WHY?! i have found the answer. it works. most people here have access to heated housing, apartments, dorms or w/e. you have money enough to afford a computer and internet, or you are able to get to a library and post on an online forum. you probably play sc, eat 3 meals a day most days, jack off regularly and drink plenty of coke. people are wondering why nobody steps up and says "why are we still doing this"? you know why? its because IT WORKS. if you changed things drastically to the point where everything was different (i.e. school was held at random times or w/e) FUCK I DONT KNOW WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS. this goes all teh way back to the beginning of this thread. i have an idea, i cant express it, FUCK ME!!!!! can someone help me out by chance? think of something im talking about and go deeper?? this sucks.
anyway, if a very poor person read this thread chances are that he would say "well shit, they have it pretty damn good what are they complaining about? the fact is, the grass is always greener on the other side of the highway and change always happen when you least expect it.
also i think happiness is remembering things that make you laugh or make you feel good about what you have done. im sure many people enjoy playing SC (being "happy" while playing it) but when you are playing sc are you saying to yourself "what a fucking blast i am having RIGHT NOW"? no! later when you watch a replay or talk to the obs of the game is when you feel good about it. same goes with any physical activities. when you start thinking about how happy you are, the feeling goes away.
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i wish i was one of those robots. I am sad atm, i wish to write a rant but i dont feel like drawing attention with a new thread, nor do i know if this is the correct topic to post one, read if you care:
+ Show Spoiler + Today it ends another cycle. I wish i could have ended it sooner, but it was not in my hands, it never was. Lately i started to have a feeling things had changed, and today i found myself right.
It all happened when i admitted to myself that i liked her. I was trying so hard to think i didnt, but in the bottom, i did. And she poped it out with her amazing ability to read me. So yes we started dating regularly (2 or 3 times per week) for a long time. I asked her 3 times if she would be my gf, and she awnsered to all the same awnser: "i do like you, im just not ready yet". Fine, i got tired at the 3rd try. I told her ok ggnore, i wont see you anymore for a while, neither i want to talk to you. She was my best (female) friend atm. So i was totally broke, she realized and told me to give her a chance. I felt like she did had interest. So i said yes. But i told her, that if she was really sure, that if she didnt, it didnt have to continue. She said yes please dont leave me.
4 days later, she comes to my house, and tells me there is no chemistry between us, and we should drop it. I tried to act normally and told her, ok np, as you wish. Later she had a crisis;; she told herself she was a fool for letting me go, and she was in a very bad shape. I had to go to her house, to comfort her. We kissed. Wow... i thought that she didnt meant that at all, she was just unsure.
Things continued the same way, and she had a lot of trouble. So i naturally noticed, and told her, how about if we're friends? you need one more than a boyfriend... She said that she would appreciate it, but she'd reallly like to keep me the way i was. I accepted, mainly because i thought things would go the way i wanted someday.
Today, almost 1 1/2 months after that happened, i asked her how things were going. I didnt have any thought about tellng her to become my gf. She said that she's under a lot of troubles right now, and she sees me as a friend. Game over myself.
I hate this section of my life. Im sure i had an anti-girl vaccum when i was born.
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On November 29 2006 19:58 [jOyO] wrote: + Show Spoiler +On November 29 2006 12:06 dancefayedance!~ wrote:I know yout post isn't entirely concerned with what I'm about to post, but it wouldn't make much sense if you didnt understand where im basing my opinion of off. Probably confusing you. I remember being in the same boat as you. I was pretty depressed not for myself but for other people with the same diposition as the one you're describing. Then one day my girlfriend stumbled upon an excerpt from self-reliance by ralph waldo emerson. + Show Spoiler +1) There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried. 2) Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being. 3) Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs. 4) Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. 5) What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. This rule, equally arduous in actual and in intellectual life, may serve for the whole distinction between greatness and meanness. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude. 6) There is a mortifying experience in particular, which does not fail to wreak itself also in the general history; I mean "the foolish face of praise," the forced smile which we put on in company where we do not feel at ease in answer to conversation which does not interest us. The muscles, not spontaneously moved, but moved by a low usurping wilfulness, grow tight about the outline of the face with the most disagreeable sensation. For nonconformity the world whips you with its displeasure. And therefore a man must know how to estimate a sour face. 7) The other terror that scares us from self-trust is our consistency; a reverence for our past act or word, because the eyes of others have no other data for computing our orbit than our past acts, and we are loath to disappoint them. 8) Why drag about this corpse of your memory, lest you contradict somewhat you have stated in this or that public place? Suppose you should contradict yourself; what then? It seems to be a rule of wisdom never to rely on your memory alone, scarcely even in acts of pure memory, but to bring the past for judgment into the thousand-eyed present, and live ever in a new day. 9) A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.—'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.'—Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood. I have more to say, but I think reading this first would make it clearer. Once you read this intothewow, pm me and I can send you a discussion, that really elaborates on my views and your views, that I had with my girlfriend. It is really long to post here and I don't know if you'd even be interested..so... your choice this reminds me of the transcendentalists (or how ever you spell that). look <---- the fact that i had to write that shows that it is human nature to appeal to other human beings. i think people act differently around different people in order to show that different person that they will be worthwhile (this mostly occurs with people and their gf or bf). i do not know why this happens but it is very over abundant for some reason. maybe it just mixes things up and/or disguises the monotony of every day life? one of my friends from school used to be a video game nerd guy who played WoW 12 hours a day. now he is a very socially liked person who smokes weed, drinks and hangs out with many people daily. he doesnt care about school, but he likes a certain teacher who knows that he doesnt care and in a way supports him. i know this because one day he wrote a paper about how little he really cares about school and he got a 100%, which is a very rare grade to get. he is what i would call a non-conformist but does he do it for himself or to please other people with his presence? he seems to be fine and "happy" but my other friend mentioned to me that he was moderately depressed. does it take away from yourself to please others? if so, is it because you don't have any time to yourself to reflect on ideas. another thought i had was about the "routine" argument and how monotony can get very repetitive and boring but nobody seems to care. nobody stands out and says, HEY WHY?! i have found the answer. it works. most people here have access to heated housing, apartments, dorms or w/e. you have money enough to afford a computer and internet, or you are able to get to a library and post on an online forum. you probably play sc, eat 3 meals a day most days, jack off regularly and drink plenty of coke. people are wondering why nobody steps up and says "why are we still doing this"? you know why? its because IT WORKS. if you changed things drastically to the point where everything was different (i.e. school was held at random times or w/e) FUCK I DONT KNOW WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS. this goes all teh way back to the beginning of this thread. i have an idea, i cant express it, FUCK ME!!!!! can someone help me out by chance? think of something im talking about and go deeper?? this sucks. anyway, if a very poor person read this thread chances are that he would say "well shit, they have it pretty damn good what are they complaining about? the fact is, the grass is always greener on the other side of the highway and change always happen when you least expect it. also i think happiness is remembering things that make you laugh or make you feel good about what you have done. im sure many people enjoy playing SC (being "happy" while playing it) but when you are playing sc are you saying to yourself "what a fucking blast i am having RIGHT NOW"? no! later when you watch a replay or talk to the obs of the game is when you feel good about it. same goes with any physical activities. when you start thinking about how happy you are, the feeling goes away.
Who ever thought a thread that started off with, "the biggest pimple WTF?" would get not only 100 + posts. But a lengthy post like this.
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On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:StartI just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff. After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.
What is wrong with making people laugh? I agree that making fun of others in order to do so isn't good (especially if that person is in the same room) but at least he is trying. You on the other hand are sitting there silent, by yourself, even though you are with the company of others. What is the point of being around other people? To connect. Certianly not the only point of our existence but it is a very important one. To connect with people, share views, experiences, understanding etc.
Now you call her a "Pile of flesh" this is very arrogant, you do not even listen to what she has to say and you have the nerve to call her a pile of flesh?
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.
Supposed to do... would you rather be sitting there in total silence? You seem to think that everyone should share your views, and that if they don't they are boring or... a robot.
Sorry but you are an ignorant person if that's what you think. She is probably trying to get to know you so that maybe you can find some common ground, something you are both interested in for a converation, but instead you choose to be anti-social and ignore her.
What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG".
What difference have you made in the world? Not everyone is going to be the next Einstein but everyone does have goals, everyone wants to be important and to make a difference. The point is, you live your life how you want to. It is your life afterall. You seem like you are saying some people aren’t living the right way, that somehow you have found a better way to live and only some people realise it.
Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
How is this the only life one can choose? There are many more things to life than this, in this paragraph it’s made to sound like that is all. This goes off into the “what is our purpose?” crap. Your purpose is to live your life, do what you feel is best, what you ENJOY (obviously within limitation) and what makes you happy.
What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself.
The fact is people cannot act the way they might always want, for instance could you ignore your boss at work if he were to start talking to you about something you aren’t interested in? No, you wouldn’t. Maybe you don’t see the reason in small talk, other people do. It’s how we connect with each other, it does not mean that that is how deep they go. Have you ever tried talking about this with your friend? Maybe he thinks the exact same thing about you.
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RE: feeling like you have to do what other people do
it's not good to conform without a reason, but neither is it good to be different without a reason.
being a rebel without a cause is just as undesirable as being a mindless follower, if not more so. you shouldn't pride yourself on being different, but instead pride yourself on doing the right things.
and sometimes, the right thing to do is that way just BECAUSE everybody else does it that way. if the custom for showing appreciation is by clapping, then clapping is much better way to show appreciation than raising a finger.
i've heard it argued that trying too hard to be different is, ironically, a cry for attention; and also an excuse for a feeling of elitism, kinda like conspiracy theorists.
RE: feeling like everything people do is habitual/scripted
there's numerous decent reasons why that girl might've started smalltalk other than just habit. 70% of people are extroverts, meaning they love to talk. she's probably one, and probably figured you were too, so in her mind starting the conversation might make you both happy. also by chit-chatting, you might've found out she's not as horrible as originally conceived; so there's potential for a meaningful friendship or something. and talking also usually makes most people (maybe 70%) feel more at ease, even if it's just boring smalltalk. in most cases, starting chitchat would be the right thing to do.
encoding this sort of logic into habit is just a way of remembering what's worked well or what you've thought through in the past, so you don't have to think it through from the basics every time. this is kinda like how you probably just have the opening starcraft builds memorized, like how to split your peons, when to build your first supply, etc., and don't have to think about them every time you play. it's good to be able to find the logic behind your habits and change them if need be, but habit is generally a good thing.
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On November 30 2006 00:35 KoveN- wrote: ... Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc. ...
good post
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On November 29 2006 00:00 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote: I believe that free will does not exist. What is going to happen is based on, in any given moment, what already has happened. Free will is an illusion that goes hand in hand with time.
I do, however, think that will exists. I think that we can try harder to do whatever we do, including but not limited to our understanding of our existence.
How can will exist without free will? If you are choosing to exercise your will in trying harder at what you do, is that choice not an exercise of free will in itself?
Your question doesn't make sense. It's like how can a hamburger exist without free hamburger.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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On November 30 2006 02:04 0x64 wrote: Your question doesn't make sense. It's like how can a hamburger exist without free hamburger.
Reread our posts and think about it some more.
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Netherlands19124 Posts
Still a good thread btw and a good read. Might post another reply later with a content that reflects a bit more on the replies since my last post in the thread.
But don't forget that in todays society nothing is simple anymore to alot of people. Pressure to succeed it everywhere, stress, socially accepted crap. This kinda stuff has the tendency to drive alot of people to escapism and apathy.
It worth taking a look at the "why" certain people are that way. Especially in modern (western?) social perspective.
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[QUOTE]On November 30 2006 00:35 KoveN- wrote: [QUOTE]On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote: [url=http://www.goear.com/listen.php?v=fa35999]Start[/url]
I just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff.
After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.[/quote]
What is wrong with making people laugh? I agree that making fun of others in order to do so isn't good (especially if that person is in the same room) but at least he is trying. You on the other hand are sitting there silent, by yourself, even though you are with the company of others. What is the point of being around other people? To connect. Certianly not the only point of our existence but it is a very important one. To connect with people, share views, experiences, understanding etc.
Now you call her a "Pile of flesh" this is very arrogant, you do not even listen to what she has to say and you have the nerve to call her a pile of flesh?
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
[quote]She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.[/quote]
Supposed to do... would you rather be sitting there in total silence? You seem to think that everyone should share your views, and that if they don't they are boring or... a robot.
Sorry but you are an ignorant person if that's what you think. She is probably trying to get to know you so that maybe you can find some common ground, something you are both interested in for a converation, but instead you choose to be anti-social and ignore her.
[quote]What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG". [/quote]
What difference have you made in the world? Not everyone is going to be the next Einstein but everyone does have goals, everyone wants to be important and to make a difference. The point is, you live your life how you want to. It is your life afterall. You seem like you are saying some people aren’t living the right way, that somehow you have found a better way to live and only some people realise it.
[quote]Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
How is this the only life one can choose? There are many more things to life than this, in this paragraph it’s made to sound like that is all. This goes off into the “what is our purpose?” crap. Your purpose is to live your life, do what you feel is best, what you ENJOY (obviously within limitation) and what makes you happy.
[quote]What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself. [/quote]
The fact is people cannot act the way they might always want, for instance could you ignore your boss at work if he were to start talking to you about something you aren’t interested in? No, you wouldn’t. Maybe you don’t see the reason in small talk, other people do. It’s how we connect with each other, it does not mean that that is how deep they go. Have you ever tried talking about this with your friend? Maybe he thinks the exact same thing about you. [/QUOTE]
nice rebuttle
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On November 30 2006 02:25 Plexa wrote:think about it
Explain this nonsense.
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is awesome32251 Posts
Answered in Bold.
[QUOTE]On November 30 2006 00:35 KoveN- wrote: [QUOTE]On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote: [url=http://www.goear.com/listen.php?v=fa35999]Start[/url]
I just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff.
After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.[/quote]
What is wrong with making people laugh? I agree that making fun of others in order to do so isn't good (especially if that person is in the same room) but at least he is trying. You on the other hand are sitting there silent, by yourself, even though you are with the company of others. What is the point of being around other people? To connect. Certianly not the only point of our existence but it is a very important one. To connect with people, share views, experiences, understanding etc.
You dont know the guy. I know the guy. I 've known the guy for more than 8 years and hes always like that. Its not like he just tries to make the girl laught. He's always like trying so hard to make people laught it is pretty sad.
Now you call her a "Pile of flesh" this is very arrogant, you do not even listen to what she has to say and you have the nerve to call her a pile of flesh?
With the word robot i wasnt trying to insult. I guess i just call them robots (not everybody, i guess depends on what we are calling robots) because im on this side of the skull. Maybe if i was on the outside, i would call myself a robot.
Im only being "arrogant" in my thinking in that moment, because i came to think of it like that. Imagine you started thinking the world was nothing to you but a program (matrix like). Would you call the other people in a mannerful way when you are thinking atm that they are nothing but an algorithm? Im just lost in my though
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
This is exxactly what i am questioning, and you make it seem that it has to be THIS way. Why do you have to fake in the outside things for, maybe, a long time in order to achieve a connection with other person?. Imagine you like, i dont know death metal. You are in a pub, and you start to talk to a cheerleader looking-like girl. Would you mention death metal in your first moments of speaking? No. Why? Isnt exactly what you like? Chances are that maybe if you play like a fool, you will continue to talk to the girl, even if its not the real you. Dont get me wrong, its not like irl i act like im writing here. I will fake stuff, drunk in a bar if i want to bang a girl. Geeks anti-social? rofl, i dont know why you have to attack someone because just of some though. I dont know what it has to do with the whole conversation we are having.
[quote]She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.[/quote]
Supposed to do... would you rather be sitting there in total silence? You seem to think that everyone should share your views, and that if they don't they are boring or... a robot.
Sorry but you are an ignorant person if that's what you think. She is probably trying to get to know you so that maybe you can find some common ground, something you are both interested in for a converation, but instead you choose to be anti-social and ignore her.
You suppose wrong again. I already know the girl (if you can ever really known someone, SOMETHING WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS TOPIC). And I already mentioned the silence thing. It is no the talking that i dont like. The automatized talking. The phrase: "she only talked because she had to" is only a though i had in my mind, to continue with what i was thinking.
[quote]What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG". [/quote]
What difference have you made in the world? Not everyone is going to be the next Einstein but everyone does have goals, everyone wants to be important and to make a difference. The point is, you live your life how you want to. It is your life afterall. You seem like you are saying some people aren’t living the right way, that somehow you have found a better way to live and only some people realise it.
Exactly. I said that i was on the outside of myself, maybe i would call myself a robot. I don't know why you try to attack me so hard
[quote]Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
How is this the only life one can choose? There are many more things to life than this, in this paragraph it’s made to sound like that is all. This goes off into the “what is our purpose?” crap. Your purpose is to live your life, do what you feel is best, what you ENJOY (obviously within limitation) and what makes you happy.
[quote]What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself. [/quote]
The fact is people cannot act the way they might always want, for instance could you ignore your boss at work if he were to start talking to you about something you aren’t interested in? No, you wouldn’t. Maybe you don’t see the reason in small talk, other people do. It’s how we connect with each other, it does not mean that that is how deep they go. Have you ever tried talking about this with your friend? Maybe he thinks the exact same thing about you. [/QUOTE]
Next time read the whole thread. (or at least my posts) before answering.
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On November 30 2006 07:33 SuperJongMan wrote:Explain this nonsense.
ALL IN ALL YOURE ALL JUST BRICKS IN THE WALL
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Maybe you should read Kafka ?
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is awesome32251 Posts
I read kafka, camus, etc in high school. The point is im trying to make this a "thoughts thread" rather than I said that because camus said it too and he has a big e-penis so no one can go against it. Because those threads end in people quoting sources all over and not adding nothing themselves. :<
edit: thanks anyway
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On November 29 2006 14:17 intrigue wrote:the blank slate idea (tabula rasa) is was used by locke, freud, and aristotle to describe various human traits. wikipedia: Show nested quote +Generally people now recognise the fact that the entire brain is indeed preprogrammed and organised in order to process sensory input, motor control, emotions, and natural responses. These preprogrammed parts of the brain then learn and refine their ability to perform their tasks. going with this, a lot has been shown through twin studies etc that everything really is just a mixture of nature + nurture. i don't know why you guys are bringing this stuff up like it's profound. well i guess if you want to take it further and ask why there are so many hollow mechanized people all around, i'd have to say it's all in the nurture aspect of someone growing up. the friends you make, the ideas you're exposed to, the influences and role models you have. i refuse to believe that it's in someone's genes to be complacent in being a nobody.
i brought it up because one of the posters stated that they believe that being from a certain country is going to predispose you to certain traits. i think he said spanish party, romanians back stab, etc etc. i was just simply trying to provide a different perspective. i was actually gonna mention the twin thing too, but ive got no home computer atm.
to smurg:
what country did you live in and where are you now? if youre going from somewhere from the us to australia, the change is probalby minimal at best. id imagine going from a developed country to a third world country would be a major change.
what do you mean by absolute change?
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Wat Kafka writings deal with this? i wanna check some out
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You dont know the guy. I know the guy. I 've known the guy for more than 8 years and hes always like that. Its not like he just tries to make the girl laught. He's always like trying so hard to make people laught it is pretty sad.
Yeah.. that really does sound sad... wtf ? I am assuming things because you aren't telling the full story. This is the way I am reading it, all in all your first post didn't really explain much at all, as you say it's tough to express and I agree but reading this paragraph just doesn't make sense. To me making people laugh is a wonderful quality in a person. You are right though, I don't know him but you need to provide a better description.
This is a limitation of the internet when it comes to discussing something like this. It goes far deeper then a just one particular event, I would have to have met you and your friend to be able to elaborate further, maybe I'm missing the point of your post, I don't know, this is getting pretty confusing.
Im only being "arrogant" in my thinking in that moment, because i came to think of it like that. Imagine you started thinking the world was nothing to you but a program (matrix like). Would you call the other people in a mannerful way when you are thinking atm that they are nothing but an algorithm? Im just lost in my though
The matrix is real maen. No, seriously, it's all in your head.
This is exxactly what i am questioning, and you make it seem that it has to be THIS way. Why do you have to fake in the outside things for, maybe, a long time in order to achieve a connection with other person?. Imagine you like, i dont know death metal. You are in a pub, and you start to talk to a cheerleader looking-like girl. Would you mention death metal in your first moments of speaking? No. Why? Isnt exactly what you like? Chances are that maybe if you play like a fool, you will continue to talk to the girl, even if its not the real you. Dont get me wrong, its not like irl i act like im writing here. I will fake stuff, drunk in a bar if i want to bang a girl. Geeks anti-social? rofl, i dont know why you have to attack someone because just of some though. I dont know what it has to do with the whole conversation we are having.
Why fix what isn't broken? There are alot of people that do act the way they want. I know people that could not care less what people think of them, they don't do it to seem cool but are just like that. Other's want to fit in, so they might disguise themselves to certain people in order to do so.
Personally I don't see anything wrong, it is their choice. Everyone wants to belong, it's just that some have a different way of achieving it, because everyone is different.
You suppose wrong again. I already know the girl (if you can ever really known someone, SOMETHING WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS TOPIC). And I already mentioned the silence thing. It is no the talking that i dont like. The automatized talking. The phrase: "she only talked because she had to" is only a though i had in my mind, to continue with what i was thinking.
Obviously you don't really know her then. No one is a robot, they might apear that way on the outside, maybe that is all she is letting you see. She would have reasons, maybe she doesn't like you, maybe she feels you don't want to know her. I know I wouldn't try to get to know someone that just ignored me.
One point I'd like to make, and it ties in with how people percieve things, it doesn't really matter what I would write in my posts, you saw it as an attack and imediately went on the defensive, and disregarded all of what I had to say where as others saw it differently.
This is human nature, I'm not saying I don't do it as well. We all do. Everyones views and beliefs has an extremely strong efect on how they percieve things. Someone that truly believes something, however false it may be will go to any extent to defend it.
Next time read the whole thread. (or at least my posts) before answering.
I'm reading this on and off at work, I am sorry I can't help it missing some things.
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