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is awesome32274 Posts
Start
I just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff.
After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.
She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.
Pause
They were definitely not slaves, neither suffered this "thing". "They", I then though "most people" suited it better.
People with a "soul" are hard to find. People that have a different way of thinking, of expressing themselves, people who act randomly (good random, not bad random).
What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG".
Between all the noise inside my head, spiraling down and accelerating... Because the mind works that way, it auto-feeds itself and once it starts you can't really stop it. I guess some will understand what I mean...
I was reacting myself, one of them. Even when I could see all (well most, well just some) of the solutions to a problem, I usually went with the easier, more accepted ones. The common ones.
Choice
Maybe I was not as free as I though I was. Maybe as the big machine has ways of controlling people (shock therapy, or Goth starters kit), it also had ways to control me and my way of thinking. What can one man do? A jihad anti-robot crusade? Useless.
Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
Rewind
Can’t find the way to express this syndrome?
What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself.
I heard some mumbling and I found myself nodding still as my friend entered the room again. I told him I had to go home and rounded up my list of thoughts on the way home while listening to some music.
The question itself I guess it would be: "is anybody out there?"
Did you realized that maybe there’s a lot more of yourself than you really show. And I don't mean private thoughts, maybe things you want to share but you don’t find a moment or words to do it?
Think, then post, thanks.
ALT + S!
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is awesome32274 Posts
No, theres no ninjas this time, sorry.
edit: i find it very hard to express some of this stuff in english. Sorry if there is any big grammar mistakes.
edit2: Entropy i stole some of your formatting because it looked better 
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
Is there anybody out there?
I assume that all social sentient beings at one point or another, and more than once in their life span, will face such thoughts, will muse about the distinction between the "I" and the collective "us", will wonder about free will & predetermination, and will ponder about the "why" and "if" ..
You just stood at the threshold of an existential crossroad, imbibed by depersonalization and derealization, and on no drugs.. pretty good going. You did not cross it though, you're still standing there, facing the choices, facing reality, facing yourself..
But to answer your question, even if some of us have become comfortably numb, yes we are out here, yes we hear you and yes I too hear you...
Dissociative thought in small doses, owns.
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Austin10831 Posts
Well round one of my thoughts was deleted by my pressing of some key combination that closes tabs on firefox without asking me if I want to close the damn tab. So let's try this again.
Thoughts like this are hard for a reader like me to respond to, simply because notions like this I feel are more debatable on a personal level, through the dynamic of conversation.
That said, I feel what you have said is true to all humans to some extent. The societal environment that someone is brought up in will, by and large, affect how they see themselves in relation to others, and define, on at least a basic level, how they're "supposed" to interact.
While we all are essentially cogs in a machine, the vast difference is that while someone else defines the purpose and function of a specific gear, we have the ability to create our own raison d'etre.
The idea that we are simply cold gears in a massive, impersonal machine seems to exhibit a very bleak world-view. I think it's fair to say that the people who, throughout history, have changed this world for better or for worse were not those who just adapted to the other gears in the machine. That doesn't mean they were broken gears, it meant they redefined themselves, and in turn, the machine as a whole.
On a more individual, intimate level, I'm not sure what you mean.
Of course there are parts of us that wish to express something we can't, for many reasons. My own personal inhibitions have oft thwarted me. Overcoming these inhibitions is part of a personal journey we all partake in.
I'm sorry if this is too scatterbrained or not what you were really asking, sometimes my mind runs away with itself while I'm busy writing, and by the end I don't know where I came from.
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thedeadhaji
39489 Posts
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Man smurg you need to find something simple and sincere to smile at.
Like the grass outside, perhapes.
OMG I saw LS and some silly "emo" post so I automatically thought of smurg!
But it's wow!
How come no way wow ur.....
I'm lost for words...
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no, good post brood.
you too intothewow.
i don't have anything to contribute.
hopefully that will change with some more considered thought.
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I've felt the exact same way as you do. Whenever I go off to college every day I take a look at all the cattle that passes by me every day... People that just go on to do the same old thing day in and day out. The same thing happens when I'm at work. Hundreds of customers that pass through the line without considering a different life. Where are the INNOVATORS these days? I want to be an innovator. I don't want to be a complacent slab of meat and I'm glad that you aren't. And don't worry IntoTheWow, there are people like you and me out there. You just have to look hard to find them .
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good post and I think you are right about people fitting inside the machine without anything special coming out.
I do think that the things people do are for a humane reason though. For instance, I feel from the story your friend wants to get people to laugh, he wants to feel good about himself, tough, and therefore he acts the way he does. You see that that's something that you don't want to do, I like that.
I mean people may act like a robot too like this girl for instance because she might be in a situation like that that's 'random' i guess and act that way to make her feel comfortable.
One of my points that made me write this though, is that that was just one moment, one instance of your lives. Like maybe when she is alone wth her bf, or i bet her parents, she acts differently, she doesn't show the rules of society as much and acts 'randomly'. Around people you don't know she may act more mechanically
To open up a larger metaphor this reminds me of Starcraft. Like if you first start playing starcraft you don't know anything and screw up all the time. When you start learning something then you feel that you must build tanks versus protoss, for example. Then you (or at least I) feel like a machine, protoss=tanks. boring boring boring. But then you realize that tanks work best towards protoss and you want to build tanks versus them. You could build marines, but you have to dance them around more. Nah marines just suck go tanks ill talk about SC later in this post
It's like she could talk to you. but what did she talk to you about I know you didn't listen but let's say you were a newb to conversation then you would say to talk about the weather. but it's like what type of weather, are you optomistic pessimestic (sp)? about it. to get back to Starcraft it's like ok yea you HAVE to build tanks like a machine, but how do you arrange your buildings, when do you move out, when do you research seige. Stuff like that.
If you say that people don't act randomly that's half learned, but that's also because we are all very similar. I mean language theres theories that language started out in different places at the same time, yet its so similar. We are all the same species after all.
Also maybe just talking is the start to MOSTLY every relationship, just like you need to build peons first. I know you have to every game, but you just do. It's like its automatic. There are many parts of automatic things in our life, there must be or we'd all be multitasking to oblivion. This way we do lots of things autmotically and we can use the best part of our existence to finesse
Btw i made a post about the video card, so i thought i should try to contribute in some way. hope i made some sense
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I feel the same way 0.0
Like everyone is there, no particular reason for being there, no where to go, nothing to do, always the same thing, always talk about the same thing, always laugh at the same thing, no point of existence at all. There I am thinking that,watching people talk. I think that I must be different, cause I could never talk about what everyone else was talking about, I was always talking about something new or different if I was talking at all.I could never think of anything meaningful to say to these people (for them as a group) without being the center of attention, and when I'm the center of attention I feel shy or nervous and can no longer think properly, I've heard it all before, if I say what they want it will bore me. So I say nothing.
Then there are times when I say stuff that people don't expect me to say. THey get shocked. Because I say this, they don't know how to respond, I threw them off, they can no longer think, I ended the conversation, total silence.
And there are the innovative thoughts, thoughts that interest people, but leave them clueless, words that NEED silence in order for people to understand, in order for people to respond properly, and the silence makes things awkward, a group of people just sitting there thinking after someone said something does not happen. Someone always says something. Someone always stops the thinking, people are not used to silence, people do not want to think about what they are going to say. They'd rather just say it, as stupid as it may sound, saying something stupid is better (socially) than saying something smart after a few minutes of silence and thought.
People are lazy. They are hypocrites, people are not used to change and prefer things never to change, but always say they want change. They are scared of what they really want, they are scared of what people might think.
I think one on one discussions go a lot further because people dont worry as much about what others might think.
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Russian Federation1953 Posts
is there anybody here?
hello?
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On November 28 2006 23:28 PaleMan wrote:
is there anybody here?
hello?
1/10
You fail, sir
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On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:
What difference did this girl made in the world? 1 more robot?. But its useless dispossing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (conciously or unconciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr.Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG".
keep in mind there is a difference between being "self aware", aware, and unaware. even people who have a zombie-like existence still experience(I believe.. it's only logical).
Maybe i was not as free as i though i was. Maybe as the big machine has ways of controlling people (shock therapy, or "goth starters kit" ), it also had ways to control me and my way of thinking. What can one man do? a jihad anti-robot crusade? useless.
Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has childrens or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. Theres certainly options, but is there freedom?. How can call a decision choosing between black or white?.
you are confusing me. are you asking if free will exists? It's a good question.
I believe that free will does not exist. What is going to happen is based on, in any given moment, what already has happened. Free will is an illusion that goes hand in hand with time.
I do, however, think that will exists. I think that we can try harder to do whatever we do, including but not limited to our understanding of our existence.
What im trying to say is that those i thought were robots, are just limited by education/rules/parametres, i dont even know what to call them now. Maybe it more than one thing.
I call them rules. Guidelines we live by. Guidelines that have come with evolution to make our lives easier. Easier, but not necessarily right.
These rules are a mixture of genetics and memes. They form our very existence, all the way down to what we call the self.
Objects in the world do not truly exist beyond being a concept or an idea. They are just a part of something bigger that we have come to recognize as having specific meaning or value because of evolution.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, theres something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself.
I prefer to think of it like, "if you blow up all the dams, the river can run freely".
If you understand what I mean.
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So youre starting to question existence. Yes, there are people out there, humans and other terrestrial and extraterrestrial beings. Each is a sentient being, with their own thought processes and mechanics. Most will not achieve much, while few will begin to scratch at the surface. However, to focus on the individual is not enough; you need to look at them as a whole, a group, before you see the other picture.
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On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:
I believe that free will does not exist. What is going to happen is based on, in any given moment, what already has happened. Free will is an illusion that goes hand in hand with time.
I do, however, think that will exists. I think that we can try harder to do whatever we do, including but not limited to our understanding of our existence.
How can will exist without free will? If you are choosing to exercise your will in trying harder at what you do, is that choice not an exercise of free will in itself?
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United States42694 Posts
Everyone wonders that from time to time. And people are fairly shallow. But there is more to humanity than that. Find a film, a book, a poem, a painting, a song that you love. It'll remind you why humanity pretty much owns robots. Or just look at yourself, thinking about how humanity can be so automatic and lifeless. They're not all that different from you, chances are all of them have had that thought too. Conceptual questioning of existence gets some points on the human-o-meter as far as I'm concerned.
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On November 29 2006 00:00 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:
I believe that free will does not exist. What is going to happen is based on, in any given moment, what already has happened. Free will is an illusion that goes hand in hand with time.
I do, however, think that will exists. I think that we can try harder to do whatever we do, including but not limited to our understanding of our existence.
How can will exist without free will? If you are choosing to exercise your will in trying harder at what you do, is that choice not an exercise of free will in itself?
I understand what you're saying but I don't think I can explain what I mean more than that. I've given this alot of thought, though.
I think of it kind of like the soul can impose it's existence or it can not. I understand how that can appear a choice but I feel as though it's not... a choice is just a word to describe an event you influence while understanding the reason behind that influence.
I guess what I think is that there aren't really words for what I mean. I understand how this could look like im full of it but I really am trying to organize my thoughts as well as I can.
Maybe it stems from the fact that I spend most of my time thinking about this stuff to myself, rather than talking with other people.. which could lead to alot of my thoughts not having so solid of a structure in language.
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On November 29 2006 00:04 Kwark wrote:
They're not all that different from you, chances are all of them have had that thought too.
The problem is that most of them dismiss these thoughts and instead choose to be slaves(yes I am using the term loosely) to those with influence.
As far as I am concerned, that honestly seems sinful. Purposeful ignorance is detrimental to humanity.
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United States42694 Posts
On November 29 2006 00:24 travis wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 00:04 Kwark wrote:
They're not all that different from you, chances are all of them have had that thought too. The problem is that most of them dismiss these thoughts and instead choose to be slaves(yes I am using the term loosely) to those with influence.
Or choose to just live their lives simply with those they love and be happy. Leave high philosophy to those for whom happiness lies in the abstract. Someone who knows how to be happy and is content when he is happy seems a lot wiser to me.
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On November 29 2006 00:04 Kwark wrote:
Or choose to just live their lives simply with those they love and be happy. Leave high philosophy to those for whom happiness lies in the abstract. Someone who knows how to be happy and is content when he is happy seems a lot wiser to me.
QFT. This is a simple truth that I really can't expand upon. Happiness is paramount (unless your conviction is that this life is only a test and your precise behavior will determine your eventual fate)
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On November 29 2006 00:34 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 00:24 travis wrote:On November 29 2006 00:04 Kwark wrote:
They're not all that different from you, chances are all of them have had that thought too. The problem is that most of them dismiss these thoughts and instead choose to be slaves(yes I am using the term loosely) to those with influence. Or choose to just live their lives simply with those they love and be happy. Leave high philosophy to those for whom happiness lies in the abstract. Someone who knows how to be happy and is content when he is happy seems a lot wiser to me.
Then again they do not actually choose it, society has teached them not to question and do what the others do, there is a lot of people walking around that base their decisions on what others think etc.
These people define happines by how society defines it anyway, so they aren´t happy they are just ignoring reality and their own thoughts.
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On November 29 2006 00:43 whatever wrote:
Then again they do not actually choose it, society has teached them not to question and do what the others do, there is a lot of people walking around that base their decisions on what others think etc.
These people define happines by how society defines it anyway, so they aren´t happy they are just ignoring reality and their own thoughts.
Define "true" happiness then?
I think it's foolish to assume that those who follow the crowd and choose not to repeatedly contemplate the harshness and fulness of reality are not "really" happy. Ignorance truly is bliss, after all.
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I don't think anyone should make assumptions about other people, lumping them into the category of 'slaves, robots, sheep, etc.' You will never ever truly know what another person is thinking and feeling, and to assume that you have some sort of soul or character that they don't is a lonely and arrogant outlook in the end... the reason people tend to think, fear, wonder, want, and believe the same things is because we are all people...
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United States42694 Posts
On November 29 2006 00:43 whatever wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 00:34 Kwark wrote:On November 29 2006 00:24 travis wrote:On November 29 2006 00:04 Kwark wrote:
They're not all that different from you, chances are all of them have had that thought too. The problem is that most of them dismiss these thoughts and instead choose to be slaves(yes I am using the term loosely) to those with influence. Or choose to just live their lives simply with those they love and be happy. Leave high philosophy to those for whom happiness lies in the abstract. Someone who knows how to be happy and is content when he is happy seems a lot wiser to me. Then again they do not actually choose it, society has teached them not to question and do what the others do, there is a lot of people walking around that base their decisions on what others think etc. These people define happines by how society defines it anyway, so they aren´t happy they are just ignoring reality and their own thoughts.
Erm... If they're society robots they wouldn't consider there was somebody or something that was influencing their lives. It's not that they're brainwashed by society into not questioning it. It's because they don't feel the question is important. And I'm not dismissing philosophy as a subject, I studied it and I loved it. I'm dismissing philosophy the moment you let the abstract get in the way of being happy here and now. Who cares why you're happy, society etc... I feel it's enough to simply be happy. If you search for more beyond the company of friends and the love of family then you'll neglect whats important and ultimately leave yourself unfulfilled.
As for the only thinking you're happy. Seems somewhat scientology like to me. "You're actually completely depressed due to these abstract questions without answers. You just think you're happy because the mass media told you that you were. The truth is out there. Give us $500 and we'll tell you all about it". Could you explain the difference between believing, on every single level, that you're happy, and being happy?
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i saw that coming, I would say happiness is facing reality without suffering? if its possible..
Erm... If they're society robots they wouldn't consider there was somebody or something that was influencing their lives. It's not that they're brainwashed by society into not questioning it. It's because they don't feel the question is important.
we re both assuming now so meh..
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On November 29 2006 00:52 whatever wrote:
i saw that coming, I would say happiness is facing reality without suffering? if its possible..
That sounds more like mere existence than happiness.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
didn't really read anything that well, sorry if this is a hijack, sorry again if this isn't very clear, kind of ranting here. i don't do this much, give me a break.
in general i've found very few people who i really regard with the label as human. everybody fancies themselves thinkers and (so) to some extent they really are, but i do not value the people that really just delude and pride themselves in having this 'deep'ness and false clarity that others don't. fakes making pretense at having morality, scum thinking honor and chivalry can redeem the way they treat girls and their friends, religious people who have convinced themselves that they really do have faith but don't have an ounce of integrity... where's their guilt in just existing and never once considering things for themselves?
and then there's all this bullshit about how important it is to not care about others think, to express oneself without restraint, 'dance like nobody's watching,' and so it often feels like everybody is an opportunist who just tries to desperately show how they exhibit these qualities. yes, these are respectable traits, but why does everyone yearn for things that clearly don't suit them?
the people i envy and love the most are those who are still fragile to what others think yet confident enough to assert themselves, worried by small simple things but proud and appreciative of life, composed yet vulnerable to outbursts, people whose morality and values come from careful internal consideration instead of memorized doctrines. they show beauty in their humility and it doesn't matter how different they are from me, but as long as they have that individual ability to act as they'd like, feel awkward in awkward situations, feel comfort in comfortable situations. my best friends are all like this and a few of them are honestly fucking weird people but it's just very, very nice being around them.
god i have so much trouble finding people that i respect at college. so many people have these unmerited self-righteous cocky looks on their faces, how am i even supposed to approach them? and when they talk to me it's always empty or sucking up or revolting in general. you know i've tried so hard and i always give them the benefit of the doubt thinking 'hey we're all human, we all feel and there's no harm in giving this person a chance' but i just can't deal with the inevitable pretentiousness. i'm optimistic, i think people have good intentions but it just really upsets me.
i don't even think i'm that picky, i just hate people with no character and personalities. it's such a fucking shame.
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This is strange, but I'm going to try to say something.
I had this sort of situation a long long time ago, I was 16 turning 17. For whatever reasons (Shallow or not) I had plans, plans to move half way across the state, to educate myself there, to grow up their, etc.
Well you know what happens when your special something isn't so special anymoee (fucking bitch).
So here I am its 2 or 3 months until my senior graduation, I have no plans to attend college in my state, no "major" to speaks of, I even hated my "supposed" major (computer programming). I sat thinking of what I should do?
Don't ask me why, but I chose music, I thought, well hey I've played this damn thing since I was 13, why not take it somewhere, so that day I went to talk to counselers about music colleges and everything seemed to work out.
So fast forward. I'm at college grinding through music classes and basics alike. I'm really not finding anyone outside my music classes to play music with. Then in my Jazz Apperciation, this wacky, colorful, I-am-Christian-But-I-Still-Hit-The-Sauce-And-Smoke-The-Ganja. (I'm serious his whole attitude was almost like an Evangelist, but he dabbled) Anyway we hung out, and supposely his is like a legend in town with his music, but he's no longer in it. He said his ego was growing and he didn't like the reason he was doing it. So then I told him why I played music, I wanted to people to hear me "express myself" He laughed at me a bit. Then he told me something that stuck with me for a long time.
"You know what, you going to change your reasons, I know I did. You never really know why you do it."
This quote came up as I was reading through your post, and I think maybe I know why.
Music doesn't seem to fit into the machine, like video games, and the like. It's a favorite target and scapegoat.
The reasons I play I still do not know, but I think I understand why some listen now, which makes me want to further my playing...Maybe people use Music, whether they are with a group moshing and kicking the shit out of each other, or sulking in their room listening to emo, or singing poppy non-sense going down the road. Maybe its their escape from the machine, from what they are suppose to do in this world. Kind of like a drug.
I feel like I almost fell into that hole, the pitfall where I would be stuck doing a job hated, the faked smiles and empty hi's. (You ever see those people who actually force the "HI!" When you say "How are you? They don't actually respond and keep walking?) Through an accident I ended up doing something I thought was just a hobby.
I dunno you guys are too intellectual and it kicks my fucking ass, so to hell with you, I tried.
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United States42694 Posts
On November 29 2006 00:55 intrigue wrote:
didn't really read anything that well, sorry if this is a hijack, sorry again if this isn't very clear, kind of ranting here. i don't do this much, give me a break.
in general i've found very few people who i really regard with the label as human. everybody fancies themselves thinkers and (so) to some extent they really are, but i do not value the people that really just delude and pride themselves in having this 'deep'ness and false clarity that others don't. fakes making pretense at having morality, scum thinking honor and chivalry can redeem the way they treat girls and their friends, religious people who have convinced themselves that they really do have faith but don't have an ounce of integrity... where's their guilt in just existing and never once considering things for themselves?
and then there's all this bullshit about how important it is to not care about others think, to express oneself without restraint, 'dance like nobody's watching,' and so it often feels like everybody is an opportunist who just tries to desperately show how they exhibit these qualities. yes, these are respectable traits, but why does everyone yearn for things that clearly don't suit them?
the people i envy and love the most are those who are still fragile to what others think yet confident enough to assert themselves, worried by small simple things but proud and appreciative of life, composed yet vulnerable to outbursts, people whose morality and values come from careful internal consideration instead of memorized doctrines. they show beauty in their humility and it doesn't matter how different they are from me, but as long as they have that individual ability to act as they'd like, feel awkward in awkward situations, feel comfort in comfortable situations. my best friends are all like this and a few of them are honestly fucking weird people but it's just very, very nice being around them.
god i have so much trouble finding people that i respect at college. so many people have these unmerited self-righteous cocky looks on their faces, how am i even supposed to approach them? and when they talk to me it's always empty or sucking up or revolting in general. you know i've tried so hard and i always give them the benefit of the doubt thinking 'hey we're all human, we all feel and there's no harm in giving this person a chance' but i just can't deal with the inevitable pretentiousness. i'm optimistic, i think people have good intentions but it just really upsets me.
i don't even think i'm that picky, i just hate people with no character and personalities. it's such a fucking shame.
Lol. Was kinda off topic but resonates with me somewhat. Which I know makes me a hypocrite. I'm allowed to dislike a vice in others while having it myself though. Go read catcher in the rye, you'd like Holden.
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On November 29 2006 00:34 Kwark wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 00:24 travis wrote:On November 29 2006 00:04 Kwark wrote:
They're not all that different from you, chances are all of them have had that thought too. The problem is that most of them dismiss these thoughts and instead choose to be slaves(yes I am using the term loosely) to those with influence. Or choose to just live their lives simply with those they love and be happy. Leave high philosophy to those for whom happiness lies in the abstract. Someone who knows how to be happy and is content when he is happy seems a lot wiser to me.
You can live your life simply with those you love and be happy, and be wise.
It's the lack of the and be wise part that got GWB re-elected, for example.
If you do not think for yourself, someone will do it for you. That someone almost always has an agenda. Call it second hand selfishness if you will.
Don't get me wrong, I understand what you are talking about and think that happiness truly is paramount. I will not criticize a person based on their lifestyle, when their lifestyle does me no direct harm. I will, however, criticize the lifestyle.
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On November 29 2006 00:55 intrigue wrote:
god i have so much trouble finding people that i respect at college. so many people have these unmerited self-righteous cocky looks on their faces, how am i even supposed to approach them? and when they talk to me it's always empty or sucking up or revolting in general.
where do you go to college? I just started this year and I know exactly what you mean. Luckily I have managed to make some new friends, but it really is completely different from the friends I grew up with... already in my dorm people have formed tight groups that don't really interact with each other, and I don't really like that,
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On November 29 2006 00:51 Kwark wrote:
Could you explain the difference between believing, on every single level, that you're happy, and being happy?
Permanence.
I think whatever might be buddhist or think along those lines. As do I(think along those lines, that is.. I am not buddhist.)
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
deep...
this is the kinda shit i think about in my room... alone in a boarding house...
its quite easy to see the stereotypical person and their relationship to the machine.. the machine turns out rolls for each person to fufill.. the leader, the bitch etc..
these questions reflect on who you are as a person, and the responses in the thread confirm thing about them as well.. the ammount of information gathered from a simple block or text.. or even a smile is enough to tell you everytihng about a person..
humans are social creatures.. we seek companionship, acceptance.. it is no different than other animals in the animal kingdom... by this reasoning can we suggest that there is no machine, that it is all in our minds, creating something from nothing to rationalise ones thoughts? breaking this down into simple biology we can say we humans are simply acting out our genetic code/basic animal instincts...
some people can just forget the big picture... some cannot, some must know the answer... i know i am one of those people who cannot, and im not alone there.. happiness comes in many forms, what makes one happy may not make another happy..
so many questions about existance/human nature yet throughout our lives we cannot find the answers to solve our questions... answers lead only to more questions...
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On November 29 2006 00:54 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 00:52 whatever wrote:
i saw that coming, I would say happiness is facing reality without suffering? if its possible.. That sounds more like mere existence than happiness.
Mere existence has to have a state or else it is not.
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On November 29 2006 01:01 Aukai wrote:
I dunno you guys are too intellectual and it kicks my fucking ass, so to hell with you, I tried.
No, I think you've crystallized a very salient point. No matter how 'machinized' and canalized the actions of most people, they have much more going on inside them than simple adherance to society's rules. While it's true that some people listen to some music in an attempt to further sculpt their fake image, I think that most people listen because it agrees with what they really think and allows them to feel good about themselves despite their controlled, ratrace lives. Music may, perhaps, be one of the few things that allows us to see that people other than ourselves are truly people.
Edit & sidenote: Lyrics aren't necessary for music to agree with a person's feelings, just as words aren't necessary to express emotion.
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On November 29 2006 01:11 travis wrote:
Permanence.
I think whatever might be buddhist or think along those lines. As do I(think along those lines, that is.. I am not buddhist.)
If you're talking about nirvana or a state of supreme enlightenment, I wish you luck. For myself and much of the world, I believe less lofty expectations are in order.
On November 29 2006 01:12 travis wrote:
Mere existence has to have a state or else it is not.
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intrigue care to explain how "not care about others think" is bullshit?
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On November 29 2006 01:28 whatever wrote:
intrigue care to explain how "not care about others think" is bullshit?
I think I can tackle that one for him
He's not deriding people who actually don't care about what others think; he's saying that people who pretend not to care what others think in order to fit in with others are contemptible.
Edit:
yes, these [independence from peer pressure] are respectable traits, but why does everyone yearn for things that clearly don't suit them?
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thanks dametri, I agree then
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
if you have a problem with what i said, please state it outright. there's no need to try to make me look stupid by pointing out an obvious typo. i'm not going to correct that out of spite, fuck you =(.
i said it was a respectable trait, the 'bullshit' part pertains more to how it's stressed so blindly. every time someone asks 'how do i become happy?' they get the same set of answers, basically the things i listed in that paragraph. but some people can't help but have insecurities or troubles about others and worry, while others just can, it comes naturally. it's really not a weakness or a fault, if it's the way you are, why not just accept it? why is it considered shallow to have such a basic human social concern? how real someone is doesn't lie in their possession of any of those qualities at all, and to try to blindly lie to yourself about something like that is really stupid.
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On November 29 2006 01:15 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 01:11 travis wrote:
Permanence.
I think whatever might be buddhist or think along those lines. As do I(think along those lines, that is.. I am not buddhist.) If you're talking about nirvana or a state of supreme enlightenment, I wish you luck. For myself and much of the world, I believe less lofty expectations are in order.
No, I have not been persuaded that is attainable. And there is much of buddhism I am in disagreement with. I was just guessing that this was his line of thinking.
prolly shoulda just kept my big mouth shut
Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 01:12 travis wrote:
Mere existence has to have a state or else it is not.
To face reality one must exist. To exist one must have a state. He is saying that the state in which one exists but does not suffer is true happiness.
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On November 29 2006 01:12 travis wrote:
To face reality much one exist. To exist one must have a state. He is saying that the state in which one exists but does not suffer is true happiness.
Yepyepyep
I'm sure that I didn't make myself very clear. What I meant is that facing an arbitrarily defined 'reality' while avoiding suffering doesn't seem like much of a definition of happiness to me; it seems like a state in which one is merely existing. There are plenty of knowledgable people whose minds are open and their wrists unslit - yet would I call all of them happy? Probably not. I don't think the presence of knowledge/openmindedness and the absence of suffering is enough to define happiness.
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what about you Dametri , how do you define happiness?
On November 29 2006 01:11 travis wrote:
I think whatever might be buddhist or think along those lines. As do I(think along those lines, that is.. I am not buddhist.)
I do have read buddhist texts, but then the word reincarnation appears and I think you know what happens
On November 29 2006 01:41 intrigue wrote:
if you have a problem with what i said, please state it outright. there's no need to try to make me look stupid by pointing out an obvious typo. i'm not going to correct that out of spite, fuck you =(.
my english not 100%, I really didnt get it at first
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On November 29 2006 02:00 whatever wrote:
I do have read buddhist texts, but then the word reincarnation appears and I think you know what happens
you should consider being more openminded about it 
very unsure, myself
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On November 29 2006 02:00 whatever wrote:
what about you Dametri , how do you define happiness?
hap‧pi‧ness /ˈhæpinɪs/ - [hap-ee-nis]
–noun
1. the quality or state of being happy.
I win at life
Edit: Nyeh.
No, seriously.. I believe that happiness is a state in which joy and/or euphoria aren't necessarily constant, but in which a person is able to become joyous or euphoric with relative ease. Laughter comes more easily to a happy person; a happy person has a reason to get up in the morning (or whenever they rise) and is able to overcome minor problems without having them impact their day.
Of course, that's just my version of it. I don't think anyone has the same definition of happiness; perhaps some people would be truly happy only existing without suffering.
I doubt it, though. They might be happy only existing if their previous situation was dire - but I don't think it can last.
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On November 29 2006 01:50 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 01:12 travis wrote:
To face reality much one exist. To exist one must have a state. He is saying that the state in which one exists but does not suffer is true happiness. Yepyepyep I'm sure that I didn't make myself very clear. What I meant is that facing an arbitrarily defined 'reality' while avoiding suffering doesn't seem like much of a definition of happiness to me; it seems like a state in which one is merely existing. There are plenty of knowledgable people whose minds are open and their wrists unslit - yet would I call all of them happy? Probably not. I don't think the presence of knowledge/openmindedness and the absence of suffering is enough to define happiness.
At this point humanity is poorly equipped linguistically when it comes to talking about this sort of stuff.
But have you never been doing something, most likely something you generally enjoy, and lose yourself in it?
Have you ever been doing this thing and then 15 minutes later realize you were totally in a rhythm. You were doing great at whatever it was and you felt fantastic during it even though you can't remember exactly how it felt because you weren't aware of your self at the time?
Maybe you get what I mean. I believe this could be an example of what he is talking about, or at least a level of it.
err I am gonna go to bed, kinda getting tired and I can't think very well.
feels like my thoughts are contradicting theirselves alot even though i've sorted out this stuff in my head on multiple occasions before.
anyways, enjoyed this
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On November 29 2006 02:13 travis wrote:
err I am gonna go to bed, kinda getting tired and I can't think very well.
feels like my thoughts are contradicting theirselves alot even though i've sorted out this stuff in my head on multiple occasions before.
Hate that feeling
Feels like you should know the 'answer' so well and so intimately, but your mind feels all wobbly and your logic threads just snap in half.
The good part is that you'll wake up with a clearer picture.
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Whenever I immerse myself in such dissociative thought for too long, I begin doubting everything around me, and if it gets out of hand, can actually physically disorient me for a few moments.
I'll usually grab something with my hand and stare at it for a few seconds to snap out of it. I made a big post about it like a year or 2 ago, wondering if anybody else experienced this sort of thing. I've been able to do it since I was like 10 or 11.
It sort of makes me uncomfortable doing it, like I'm going crazy, so I stopped doing it.
Interestingly, I can't dissociate myself from my surroundings when there is too much distinctive ambient noises, like if a television is on, etc. Anyways, good posts in the thread so far.
At this point humanity is poorly equipped linguistically when it comes to talking about this sort of stuff.
Hey hey now! Just because you can't express yourself well at 2am, doesn't mean that the limits of linguistics have been reached :p
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We're all robots, only a few of us recognise this and a small part of this few change..
Read Robert A. Wilson - Prometheus Rising("Illuminatus!"-Trilogy, some parts of the book are about society and people), it is about how our mind works and how we can change.
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haha I actually posted an essay on this :p
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?currentpage=1&topic_id=43981
My belief:
1. Happiness is not constant, happiness is the change.
2. You get happy when you expect but unsure if something will arrive, but it does.
3. When you aquire this unsure goodness, you become happy
4. You must keep aquiring new unsure goodness to continue to be happy
May I draw a concepts from one of my favorite book, Siddhartha...
"It is no good trying to decept reality. All are perceptoins, you are me and I am you. Nirvana is breaking of perceptions for the ultimate truth, but you can never attain it. Since you live in the world of perception, you might as well love the world you live in. The rock, the grass and the sky they are all the same dream, if they are indeed dream. They are all real, if they are indeed real. You are part of the world, and the world part of you. Love it."
If there is trouble and you lose your marble
Sit down in room and bring a cartboard
Trust your feelings be transferable
Draw on the cartboard with your hand's draw
Draw all your troubles on more and more
Believe all trouble transferable
Burn the cartboard and watch fire roar
Trouble burned transferable
Flames soar trouble transferable
Toast a S'mores and where is trouble?!
haha lol funny poem :p I must be very drowsy...
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Robots. Spot on. None of us is unique in any way. We're just robots following patterns, restricted by our own lack of imagination. Maybe education is actually at fault? Is it anything more then teaching of set patterns, teaching us to improve our lives by limiting our thinking to easily recognizable algorithms?
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On November 29 2006 04:04 Sfydjklm wrote:
Robots. Spot on. None of us is unique in any way. We're just robots following patterns, restricted by our own lack of imagination. Maybe education is actually at fault? Is it anything more then teaching of set patterns, teaching us to improve our lives by limiting our thinking to easily recognizable algorithms?
God I like to see you live a day with out patterns.
You'd die in 2 minutes of existence :p
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On November 29 2006 04:04 Sfydjklm wrote:
Robots. Spot on. None of us is unique in any way. We're just robots following patterns, restricted by our own lack of imagination. Maybe education is actually at fault? Is it anything more then teaching of set patterns, teaching us to improve our lives by limiting our thinking to easily recognizable algorithms?
That's true.
But patterns help us from "re-inventing the wheel" in everything we do. Efficiency versus creativity?
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Belgium8305 Posts
On November 29 2006 01:41 intrigue wrote:
i said it was a respectable trait, the 'bullshit' part pertains more to how it's stressed so blindly. every time someone asks 'how do i become happy?' they get the same set of answers, basically the things i listed in that paragraph. but some people can't help but have insecurities or troubles about others and worry, while others just can, it comes naturally. it's really not a weakness or a fault, if it's the way you are, why not just accept it? why is it considered shallow to have such a basic human social concern? how real someone is doesn't lie in their possession of any of those qualities at all, and to try to blindly lie to yourself about something like that is really stupid.
But why would it be wrong for a person who, as you say, naturally has insecurities and troubles concerning others (and I think this is inherent to everyone who was raised in a society like this one and who isn't a sociopath) to realise that it is, in fact, pointless and almost absurd to worry about these kinds of things when you could just as easily make a conscious effort to ignore them and suffer, practically speaking, no negative consequences?
Hm, that's probably one of the longest sentences I've ever written. I'll try to clarify with an example. Earlier you mentioned the "dance like nobody's watching" thing. I figure that at a party, people (who are social creatures) naturally worry about how they will be perceived by others when they dance and thus conform to a 'standardized' way of dancing to avoid ridicule. However, a person could simply realise that, practically speaking, it really doesn't matter what everyone there thinks of him. They're just a bunch of strangers anyway, so who cares about their opinion?
One could say there is in fact a practical objection: these strangers will be less likely to accept you (e.g. you might blow your chances with some random girl). The way I see it, though, is I wouldn't even want to interact with anyone shallow enough to create a bad impression of me based on the way I dance.
On November 29 2006 02:00 whatever wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 01:11 travis wrote:
I think whatever might be buddhist or think along those lines. As do I(think along those lines, that is.. I am not buddhist.) I do have read buddhist texts, but then the word reincarnation appears and I think you know what happens
I always frown at the reincarnation thing too (I figure that, logically speaking, when something happens, it should be observable and explainable by science, and there's just no way for something like a transfer of consciousness to happen), but a friend of mine who studies philosophy explained it by saying the concept of reincarnation was often misinterpreted by later buddhists. Apparently, what Buddha meant was that when one reaches nirvana, his mind is constantly reborn and thus completely blank and without preconceived notions.
I think I'm gonna address the OP in a short while, my concentration span is rapidly nearing its end.
E: Okay, I read the OP again and I actually have less to say than I thought I would.
Society is indeed a manmade machine, but it is a necessary construction: the alternative is a state of anarchy and I think Hobbes already explained pretty well why that sucks.
When I see everyone just droning about in the streets, I just think it's sad that most of them simply play their role as a cog in the machine and I understand why so many succumb to depression - it's a pretty bleak existence.
The way I figure it is that all one needs to do is realise that society is just one big necessary construction and that you just do the necessary things to function in that society (you get yourself an education, you don't break the law or at least make sure nobody who would care notices it) and for the rest, you just do whatever it is you do that makes you happy.
Personally, I've been really happy pretty much constantly for the past year and a half or so since I realised there's really no use in worrying about trivial stuff and that existence doesn't have a real point so I can just enjoy being lucky enough to be alive and in a prosperous society (being born here and now is like winning a thousand lotteries). I'm even lucky enough to have a bunch of great, like-minded friends.
So, to answer your question: yeah, there's plenty of people out there who do other things than simply function in society. There are way waaaayyy more that don't, but that's their problem.
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hey speak for yourselves guys. im not a robot. if i was a robot i want to be made from laser resistant metal and have the strength of a hundred men and rockets on my lifeless iron feet.
maybe i am a robot. maybe the corporate government society machine is pulling the wool over my eyes. yo man what do we really know man? is this real man?
thousands of thousands have walked this path before us and many have done a better job expressing their feelings about it. so youre a robot following the path of society too. there are lots of books and movies about this very subject if youre interested in someone else's answers.
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
# travis
nice insight, there is a sharp mind hiding behind that ace..
# Yizuo
will check those books, how much did u like the books? does it have boring parts?
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Australia3818 Posts
On November 28 2006 22:28 evanthebouncy~ wrote:
Man smurg you need to find something simple and sincere to smile at.
Like the grass outside, perhapes.
OMG I saw LS and some silly "emo" post so I automatically thought of smurg!
But it's wow!
How come no way wow ur.....
I'm lost for words...
Right? Well for one I don't really make 'silly emo' posts...I don't really remember when I've made an 'emo' post...except for the one that blatantly took the piss out of emos.
Anyhow. Agustin...I have been thinking about this a lot recently...at least pertaining to the 'world and gears' philosophy.
Throughout my life I've also questioned the world and how it works, perhaps been a little annoyed at how things have worked out. I cast my mind back to ancient/prehistoric times and think about the world had no codified structural order. People just did what they did to survive, that's part of the routine they had to follow...structure/routine is inherent in life, it just happens to be what we do.
Think of it like this metaphor...which I'll try to make sound half-feasible.
Imagine life starts as a dot in a large space. The dot has no worries, no direction, no clue of anything else as it were. Eventually the dot finds another dot...they find more dots, several dots become hundreds...regulation, direction & order is now needed in order for the dots to co-exist.
Essentially it's about regulation...you need regulation or things won't work. It just so happens that 'cultivation' is top of the list so we can better ourselves and fit more into the society that has been created around us.
Imagine society took a different turn from the very beginning...imagine our countries were governed like societies in George Orwell's 1984. It'd change the way society was run in the most extreme of ways. We'd all have to adhere to something, forcibly.
If you look at our society I think it's a lot more liberal than we give it credit for, I mean...we aren't actually forced to do things...we have the element of choice.
What's to say you can't pack up your job/normal life, buy flights to another country...pack a bag...and then travel around picking up small jobs whereever you go to keep you going?
I think it's all about breaking routine, or at least realising you don't have to be a product of your own society. Although with regards to that it seems that I am trying to make out that 'being a product' of your own society is a bad thing. In certain ways it is, because it limits your thought, being 'told' and instructed by other people. However, if you're given options...you can make a choice and unlock your creativity and go down a path that you 'seemingly' have created.
I don't think there is anyway in which we can create a routineless life, as we have to stick to the basics...in order to make money to survive in society. If anyone has read the book The Diceman by Luke Rhinehart, you'll see that questions of 'Can we create a truly routineless person? Going from place to place with different personas, lives & thoughts/motivations.'
I think escaping 'reality'/routine for a while is a good way to broaden your horizons, to help you establish more complex thoughts with regards to society. A lot of this ties in with what I'm doing now, I've been away from Australia for almost 7 months now, and I've been throughout Europe and the UK quite extensively (not extremely extensively, just been from place to place and taken time out to see how they live over there, the differences in culture and all that). Sure that doesn't make me the god of wisdom...but meeting different people and hearing what they have to say makes me think differently.
For example: Canadian girl I met in Austria, she had been travelling for 1.5 years away from home...working in Ireland and travelling throughout Europe a lot and making enough to continue. The 'traveller'. That's what I love about life, you can actually get up and make a change...it's just the societal norm of 'finish highschool, go to university, finish university, get a job...a wife kids, family holidays, go to a fucking old persons home, die.' Sort of mentality. Reminds me of the whole trainspotting thing:
Choose Life. Choose a job. Choose a career. Choose a family. Choose a fucking big television, choose washing machines, cars, compact disc players and electrical tin openers. Choose good health, low cholesterol, and dental insurance. Choose fixed interest mortgage repayments. Choose a starter home. Choose your friends. Choose leisurewear and matching luggage. Choose a three-piece suite on hire purchase in a range of fucking fabrics. Choose DIY and wondering who the fuck you are on Sunday night. Choose sitting on that couch watching mind-numbing, spirit-crushing game shows, stuffing fucking junk food into your mouth. Choose rotting away at the end of it all, pissing your last in a miserable home, nothing more than an embarrassment to the selfish, fucked up brats you spawned to replace yourselves. Choose your future. Choose life... But why would I want to do a thing like that?
It's fairly accurate in some societies that this is what life becomes, a dull, monostratal existence that doesn't change...you fill it in with small 'norms' and as such get stuck in a rut.
Personal preference is sometimes controlled too, music wise...a lot of kids like the newest bands arriving on the scene because they are on MTV, or on iTunes, or on MySpace...now, they might like the music because they get drummed into listening to the same shit over and over and over again and it begins to emerge that this is in fact the music they now 'like'. Same shit with emos/punks/goths/ they dress in a way that adheres to their musical tastes/way of expressing themselves. Even though it's blatant they're just subject to another trend that has emerged. The fact is it emerged as the result of an individual somewhere rebelling against a broader societal norm.
You can't be completely free from anything, you can't change the world radically unless you truly are allowed to express creativity freely and grow up in an environment where you aren't forced into study/trade/following in your fathers footsteps etc.
This shit happens regularly with regards to girls/women and fashion/their bodies. You have to 'adhere' that's the main fucking message from society...even though you really don't have to adhere. It's just about how you'll be perceived if you don't follow trends. People make fun of people who are different, for example 'emos'...I mean I guess I make fun of people but then again everyone does.
If people didn't accept everything with a grain of salt then the world would be vastly different than what it is.
I think the main issue is that we can't 'openly' live how we want, because society is governed and maintained by a few individuals who can exert any amount of control they want. We think we're more in control than we really are, we can succeed and inside society...but there are millions of curtains that hide things from our view everywhere we go.
It comes down to the intelligence of most people I guess, most people are rational and tend not to question most of the elements of society...instead they might complain about some things, but they don't really make the biggest effort to change it. This would be down to laziness and not for the fact that in the end they really can't change something...I don't think that's even considered.
For us to make a stand it'd be saying "let's get lots of people together and philosophise together to make a change!" which would be doing what everyone else does...and then we'd be branded emos...or we'd all dress like professors and wear glasses and call ourselves 'individuals'.
There are people out there who think differently of society and act differently compared to the greater whole...but in the end...what can you do? I think there is a way, it's just hard to find the way...in the end we're all just meat being lead around by ideas that aren't our own until they are put into our heads...
Most people don't question everything they are given, and lead happy and fulfilled lives within a society that encourages 'normality' but normality is just something that society has created.
Example: Americanisation of cultures. I'm not sure if it'd be dubbed 'the MTV generation' or 'Reality TV' generation...but you see in a lot of cultures (the UK, Australia are two I can personally comment upon) that younger children are growing up with American shows, American slang, American music & the such like which turn them into children of a different culture despite them not even being in the same country.
I guess globalisation/communications are at such a point now, that you can be immersed in another culture without even being part of the country it originated in...
Another example: Korean culture. Here at TL.net we know a fuck load about Korean culture than most other people, we watch vods, we even use Korean symbols (^_^, -_-; and words 'gosu' which is a bit stupid if you think about it...why would we do that? We aren't Korean.
Some people take it too far and start to eat, speak and act Korean...in the case of a friend I have, he's done it the Japanese way. Because of the easy way he could download anime...and access information about Japanese culture...he talks Japanese...eats Japanese...and dresses like-wise...he even like lolita...which is anime kiddy porn. Bizarre you might say...I do indeed.
Anyhow, there are thousands more things to say...but they all lead along the same lines; you cannot escape what is here. Only way we could do that would be to build a space ship, fly to another planet...erase our memory and go from there.
In the end, I think it's not too important to worry...and just live how you feel (as long as it isn't killing other people) because exterminating life is something that I'm happy for society to be against.
Live your own life.
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efficiency = extinction
creativity = evolution
but i think u all missed the point u all bitch about concious (learned , reasoned..) reactions of people in diferent situations this is totaly irelevant because theyr action are pre-learned , thus predictable (this happens mostly out of comodity , 'fit in' reasons..)
i think most intriguing is the unconcious reaction of people in diferent situations and , based on this , one can awaken 'a lost soul' and make it shine
the most fucked up thing is that people this days aways for something to happen that will bring them to life or give some meaning to it the question is : when the moment comes will they have what it takes to rise above theyr miserable existence ? saddly the answer is no
and if they cant do it why let someone else ? its a vicious circle and those that make it (do rise above) pay a dearest price
(i dont care about the spelling i, suck i my native language too but sorry for my grammar )
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Belgium8305 Posts
On November 29 2006 07:33 Smurg wrote:
Anyhow, there are thousands more things to say...but they all lead along the same lines; you cannot escape what is here. Only way we could do that would be to build a space ship, fly to another planet...erase our memory and go from there.
Funny you should say that. What makes you think things would turn out differently if this happened? I think we'd just go through basically the same steps all over again.
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Austin10831 Posts
Maybe society would act linearly, but would you?
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Belgium8305 Posts
Without a memory, yeah, I do think so.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
On November 28 2006 23:28 PaleMan wrote:
is there anybody here?
hello?
Why make a shit joke on a very good thread.
Nice writeup IntoTheWoW, good read and well written. I really have issues with expressing things in words that I feel. Well people always say Im good at it but Im pretty convinced its not going the way I want normally. I get where I wanna go but not in the way I want to.
Leads to me being a very physical person tbh.
Thank fuck I don't suffer from the ever present "I need to act like this cause it's socially accepted" syndrome.
Some people @ uni just annoy the crap out of me with their fake laughs and fake behavior. Like when I step up and give someone a piece of my mind and the people around act all shocked and stuff This offcourse while they were gossiping and complaining about it amongst themselves like 5 min ago when the person himself wasn't there. Like wtf, you just started about it yourself bitches and now you're acting all like OMGAWD WHAT DID YOU SAY.
Disgusts me those people.
Like you said, bags of meat. Or just plain and simple cattle, even the university schooled ones. So disappointing. Professionally and intellectually they get trained to be inventive, creative, spontaneous and ever aware. But socially they are still just cattle most of them.
Sigh, humans .
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sorry, i found the post hard to understand. i thought that when you were left in the room with her that she would start coming onto you or something. i am not disappointed but that is what i thought would happend. anyways, i just did not understand what you were trying to say, maybe because i am at work and it is hard to concentrate.
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On November 28 2006 23:46 travis wrote:
you are confusing me. are you asking if free will exists? It's a good question.
I believe that free will does not exist. What is going to happen is based on, in any given moment, what already has happened. Free will is an illusion that goes hand in hand with time.
I do, however, think that will exists. I think that we can try harder to do whatever we do, including but not limited to our understanding of our existence.
how could you say free will doesnt exist? wouldnt something like a mailman going postal and shooting up his whole workplace be an example of free will? he has the choice of doing that, its not as if he was forced to. you can subsititute that example for a number of other things as well.
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Wow... what you are suffering is from pansy loneliness.
Sorry friend, but you would not feel this way if you had some good company or a girl with you.
People are more dynamic than some of you give credit for.
Nuances. Nuances.
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Well written. The past few months im feeling this way.
I've been questioning all of everyone's actions -- why they do that, how their like that, etc... Then question my own personality and actions.. it sucks
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is awesome32274 Posts
Well. First of all i though this would be one of those posts with 40 views and 0 replies. Good thing it didnt turn out like that. Lots of posts and thoughts to answer. I dont think i could answer them all or come to think of all of them even if i skipped college today.
As travis said, lots of this thoughts dont have words that represent them. It's kind of sad that we have so much right now we have to share but we dont have the words or expressions or whatever to pass them on. Im not saying it is a conspiracy of the machine not to be words for this, but it makes me wonder. We have words for lots of stuff, but not for this. On the other hand it could be a good thing. Who knows? maybe if we had words for everything we are talking right now, those thoughts would lose sense in the word they are being represented.
It's not the first timei thought of this (funny, is like im excusing myself with everyone about not thinking this for the first time, if you know what i mean), but its the first time i put it into words.
I know the 'world' wouldn't work unless there were certain parametres that limited us. I think we might extinct if we do whatever pleased us / we felt like.
This is hard to put into words but, what i mean is like, i guess some/most (who would know?) people think about this sometime, but most suppress this thinking / do not share it. Im not saying everyone should jump around like a monkey when someone asked them for directions. It would surely kill communication. What im trying to say is that most people i known in my life always choose the easy way. You dont have to take the most bizarre option amongst all the solutions you have at hand. But its kind of sad that we had set ourselves in automatic sometimes as to act in the very same way. Is it in our nature as humans?
If i ever found a person that spoke or acted however he/she felt like, i guess i would knock her out and lock her in a cage to watch her everyday.
I don't hate automatization, because without it i would not be here today. What i do hate is total automatization. Sometimes people can do unexpected things without hurting their "shell" (we have to call it something), but they don't. I dont pretend that people think for hours before they push the button to turn the lights on as they enter a room. I hate people who do they same stuff over and over. Who are so predictable. "How come i know so many, never really knowing anyone".
I know part of life is taking risks without thinking. And of course everyone tries to minimize those risks. Its like people never think or change, they just adapt.
With the word robot i wasnt trying to insult. I guess i just call them robots (not everybody, i guess depends on what we are calling robots) because im on this side of the skull. Maybe if i was on the outside, i would call myself a robot.
I can't get a good organized text. I start thinking of something, but its like i narrow to one idea or question and then, when i think i'm into something, the path opens again into lots of thoughts. Sorry for the disorganized ideas.
My chinese food arrived.
ps: When i first wrote this thread i hitted some bootmark button and erased it all (i was nearly finishing, i had to re-write it all  )
ps2: the music i putted doesnt even have to do i guess (lyrics wise) with what i wrote, its just the music i was listening in my way home, so hopefully people would get what i mean by reading my post and listening to what i was listening.
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Belgium8305 Posts
You seem almost depressed about these conclusions - why?
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in the end we all are bags of meat of someone else , of someome with a higher understanding of things,life....etc
u all look down and see bags of meat
u should look up and see the meat within u
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is awesome32274 Posts
On November 29 2006 08:53 vGl-CoW wrote:
You seem almost depressed about these conclusions - why?
Because we miss so much from "the rest", and "them" from "us"
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Belgium8305 Posts
On November 29 2006 09:08 IntoTheWow wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 08:53 vGl-CoW wrote:
You seem almost depressed about these conclusions - why? Because we miss so much from "the rest", and "them" from "us"
Hm, yeah, I can understand that. Personally it doesn't really bother me because I already have a bunch of friends who share my mentality and world views so I don't really feel like I'm missing out on a lot of input from other people. As for the other way around - I think it's kind of sad for them because it's an existence with so much more problems and worries but ultimately that's their own problem, nobody can really help them but themselves.
I'm kind of annoyed with the arrogant tone this post is putting forth, like me and those who think like me are somehow better than everyone else - I don't think I'm better but I do know I'm different and happier because of it.
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Australia3818 Posts
Agustin, you should try reading 'The Diceman' it's a cool book...dunno if they'd have an Argentinian translation...but it's quite good book. Deals with these sorts of issues.
On November 29 2006 08:05 vGl-CoW wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 07:33 Smurg wrote:
Anyhow, there are thousands more things to say...but they all lead along the same lines; you cannot escape what is here. Only way we could do that would be to build a space ship, fly to another planet...erase our memory and go from there.
Funny you should say that. What makes you think things would turn out differently if this happened? I think we'd just go through basically the same steps all over again.
Cow I mean that's the only way you (you alone) could entirely escape what we have here. Then it'd be up to your decisions how it followed on...I guess it's the basic fact that we're humans and we've adapted to our earth and found all of it's resources.
To put it in the most simple of all terms: 'Lots of stuff depends on other stuff.'
On November 29 2006 07:58 xM(Z wrote:efficiency = extinction creativity = evolution but i think u all missed the point u all bitch about concious (learned , reasoned..) reactions of people in diferent situations this is totaly irelevant because theyr action are pre-learned , thus predictable (this happens mostly out of comodity , 'fit in' reasons..) i think most intriguing is the unconcious reaction of people in diferent situations and , based on this , one can awaken 'a lost soul' and make it shine the most fucked up thing is that people this days aways for something to happen that will bring them to life or give some meaning to it the question is : when the moment comes will they have what it takes to rise above theyr miserable existence ? saddly the answer is no and if they cant do it why let someone else ? its a vicious circle and those that make it (do rise above) pay a dearest price (i dont care about the spelling i, suck i my native language too but sorry for my grammar )
I'd say humanity cannot be erased in it's entirety...even in a subconscious state we'd act out human things. It'd be the same as being in a dream. I had a dream last night which was incredibly long and detailed...I wrote it this morning...it was 7 pages long.
It followed a fairly random pattern, but it still has elements of basic humanity in it...people, words, every day objects etc.
I agree there is probably something special within everyone that isn't 'unlocked' because it's never used/surfaced...but I don't know if that something 'special' is just something that extends to a gift on an instrument, or a natural genius for science...all societal things once again...or at least invented and brought on by human development.
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what in the fuck is with all these deep threads lately? its cool, but its a little odd considering that this is a bw site =p.
smurg, you could always go live on your own in the woods. like im talking real secluded area. youd basically be accomplishing the same thing, escaping automation.
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On November 29 2006 10:07 j0ehoe wrote:
what in the fuck is with all these deep threads lately? its cool, but its a little odd considering that this is a bw site =p.
All your intellectuals are belong to teamliquid
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Australia3818 Posts
On November 29 2006 10:07 j0ehoe wrote:
what in the fuck is with all these deep threads lately? its cool, but its a little odd considering that this is a bw site =p.
smurg, you could always go live on your own in the woods. like im talking real secluded area. youd basically be accomplishing the same thing, escaping automation.
Depends, that's just the ideology behind hermitry really...and I mean, you'd be then left out of anything in the world.
I'm really talking about the way society is at the moment...you can't really escape the way you've been brought up and the way society is. You'd eventually be kicked out of the woods when they need more paper.
If you live that long I guess haha.
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my personal beliefs when we'r born our personalityes are 'created' with a dice roll from wich we cant escape or we can but at the cost of self (witch i think its not worth it)
the dice features mostly genetic heritage from our parents , grandparents...etc , some subconcious survival skills traced back to the time when we came to be and also a 'psihological aspect'
the psihological aspect is my explanation for how can stupidity perpetuate its self ) but it also has an ireffutable proof within a nation with some historical spaning
one can say :japanese are respectful people , romanians are backstabing selfish pricks , hispanics-latino are hot blooded life loving people ...... what im saying is that a particular characteristic of personality can be unherited just by being a part of a nation (even if he moves at an early age he will still exibit national traites)
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Physician
United States4146 Posts
"Agustin, you should try reading 'The Diceman' it's a cool book...dunno if they'd have an Argentinian translation."
(Argentinian = Spanish) I believe he can not only write English, but also read it. /ignore Just j/k really. (I have found that translations usually are never better than the originals language - I seen exceptions though.)+ Show Spoiler +
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Australia3818 Posts
Well, it was a fairly complex book even by english standards I guess...or at least a step above a lot of a lot of books. Not insulting his intelligence or anything.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
your id sounds so dirty -____________________-
would you like to suck on my smurg
i just smurged on your face
sorry guys i'm dripping smurg everywhere
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Australia3818 Posts
Intriguing.
Bm bm tss.
Now keep on topic like I always do.
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I know yout post isn't entirely concerned with what I'm about to post, but it wouldn't make much sense if you didnt understand where im basing my opinion of off. Probably confusing you. I remember being in the same boat as you. I was pretty depressed not for myself but for other people with the same diposition as the one you're describing. Then one day my girlfriend stumbled upon an excerpt from self-reliance by ralph waldo emerson.
1) There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried.
2) Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being.
3) Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs.
4) Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind.
5) What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. This rule, equally arduous in actual and in intellectual life, may serve for the whole distinction between greatness and meanness. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude.
6) There is a mortifying experience in particular, which does not fail to wreak itself also in the general history; I mean "the foolish face of praise," the forced smile which we put on in company where we do not feel at ease in answer to conversation which does not interest us. The muscles, not spontaneously moved, but moved by a low usurping wilfulness, grow tight about the outline of the face with the most disagreeable sensation. For nonconformity the world whips you with its displeasure. And therefore a man must know how to estimate a sour face.
7) The other terror that scares us from self-trust is our consistency; a reverence for our past act or word, because the eyes of others have no other data for computing our orbit than our past acts, and we are loath to disappoint them.
8) Why drag about this corpse of your memory, lest you contradict somewhat you have stated in this or that public place? Suppose you should contradict yourself; what then? It seems to be a rule of wisdom never to rely on your memory alone, scarcely even in acts of pure memory, but to bring the past for judgment into the thousand-eyed present, and live ever in a new day.
9) A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.—'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.'—Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood.
I have more to say, but I think reading this first would make it clearer. Once you read this intothewow, pm me and I can send you a discussion, that really elaborates on my views and your views, that I had with my girlfriend. It is really long to post here and I don't know if you'd even be interested..so... your choice
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IntoTheWow, I have those exact same thoughts each every single day. Maybe we are the same model and came from the same factory. My model number is "person514", what's yours?
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On November 29 2006 06:37 vGl-CoW wrote:
Society is indeed a manmade machine, but it is a necessary construction: the alternative is a state of anarchy and I think Hobbes already explained pretty well why that sucks.
When I see everyone just droning about in the streets, I just think it's sad that most of them simply play their role as a cog in the machine and I understand why so many succumb to depression - it's a pretty bleak existence.
The way I figure it is that all one needs to do is realise that society is just one big necessary construction and that you just do the necessary things to function in that society (you get yourself an education, you don't break the law or at least make sure nobody who would care notices it) and for the rest, you just do whatever it is you do that makes you happy.
I believe you are confusing society with the state, anarchism is the opposite of state not of society.
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On November 29 2006 10:50 Smurg wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 10:07 j0ehoe wrote:
what in the fuck is with all these deep threads lately? its cool, but its a little odd considering that this is a bw site =p.
smurg, you could always go live on your own in the woods. like im talking real secluded area. youd basically be accomplishing the same thing, escaping automation. Depends, that's just the ideology behind hermitry really...and I mean, you'd be then left out of anything in the world. I'm really talking about the way society is at the moment...you can't really escape the way you've been brought up and the way society is. You'd eventually be kicked out of the woods when they need more paper. If you live that long I guess haha.
well, thats not really true either. if you have enough will power, you can tell yourself 'im leaving this shithole and going to X place around the globe to start anew' and do it.
my uncle dropped out of med school and went into family business for a year. he quit that to travel the world, ended up in indonesia somehwere i believe, where he lived for a year doing whatever he pleased. granted, he came back, but what im saying is you can definitely give yourself a drastic change of scenery if you so choose, even if it is just temporary.
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On November 29 2006 11:24 xM(Z wrote:my personal beliefs when we'r born our personalityes are 'created' with a dice roll from wich we cant escape or we can but at the cost of self (witch i think its not worth it) the dice features mostly genetic heritage from our parents , grandparents...etc , some subconcious survival skills traced back to the time when we came to be and also a 'psihological aspect' the psihological aspect is my explanation for how can stupidity perpetuate its self ) but it also has an ireffutable proof within a nation with some historical spaning one can say :japanese are respectful people , romanians are backstabing selfish pricks , hispanics-latino are hot blooded life loving people ...... what im saying is that a particular characteristic of personality can be unherited just by being a part of a nation (even if he moves at an early age he will still exibit national traites)
man this thing keeps getting deeper....
i understand what youre saying, and to a certain extent, im sure your parents and your nationality does have an impact on you. but if youve ever studied psychology, i think youve heard of the clean slate (i think thats what they call it) when youre a baby. basically your minds blank and you learn from experience, which is where i think a majority of your personality comes from.
for example, say youre born in romania to 100% romanian parents. but literally a day after birth, youre moved around the worl to say guatemala. are you still going to be a backstabing selfish romanian prick? =p. possibly to a certain degree, you may have inherited traits natually through genes from your parents. but the bulk of your personality will come from the environment you grow up in.
examples of this would be something like eminem. you could say hes a black acting white guy. he wasnt born like that, he grew up in an urban, primarily black neighborhood.
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
the blank slate idea (tabula rasa) is was used by locke, freud, and aristotle to describe various human traits.
wikipedia:
Generally people now recognise the fact that the entire brain is indeed preprogrammed and organised in order to process sensory input, motor control, emotions, and natural responses. These preprogrammed parts of the brain then learn and refine their ability to perform their tasks.
going with this, a lot has been shown through twin studies etc that everything really is just a mixture of nature + nurture. i don't know why you guys are bringing this stuff up like it's profound.
well i guess if you want to take it further and ask why there are so many hollow mechanized people all around, i'd have to say it's all in the nurture aspect of someone growing up. the friends you make, the ideas you're exposed to, the influences and role models you have. i refuse to believe that it's in someone's genes to be complacent in being a nobody.
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the actions that u do , the way u act , the way u relate to people , your social skills are coming from the enviroment ill give u that what im saying is : that is not who u are , thats how u behave so u'll fit in
...and yes , i'll be a prick i'll just wont show it
if a man has an opinion about something he thinks it first , a woman talks about it first (even if its pure crap) thats how we'r created
now to get back on the topic intothewow stood in that kitcken saw the girl and the first thing he did was to asociate : she is the gf of my lame ass friend so in turn she must share his traits + he was in a shitty mood from all those bad jokes and that is what it took for him to start bashing her with his thoughts in his mind ; she took one look at his facial expresion , read him like a book , panicked and instantly activated her defence mechanism by speaking ... crap i think she just wanted u to give her the benefit of the doubt
maybe u were right , she is just a hollow shell , a mere product of her suroundings but for u to make such an assumption from basicaly nothing its at least wrong , a little snoby , pretentious elitist...etc
besides she's a girl what do u want depth?
aergmgmaegaeg haha man or im full of crap , or im full of crap at least i know its mine :d
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i dont have anythin to contribute really to this post, cept to say, i think its one of the better threads i have read. Good work intothewow
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Australia3818 Posts
On November 29 2006 13:48 j0ehoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 29 2006 11:24 xM(Z wrote:my personal beliefs when we'r born our personalityes are 'created' with a dice roll from wich we cant escape or we can but at the cost of self (witch i think its not worth it) the dice features mostly genetic heritage from our parents , grandparents...etc , some subconcious survival skills traced back to the time when we came to be and also a 'psihological aspect' the psihological aspect is my explanation for how can stupidity perpetuate its self ) but it also has an ireffutable proof within a nation with some historical spaning one can say :japanese are respectful people , romanians are backstabing selfish pricks , hispanics-latino are hot blooded life loving people ...... what im saying is that a particular characteristic of personality can be unherited just by being a part of a nation (even if he moves at an early age he will still exibit national traites) man this thing keeps getting deeper.... i understand what youre saying, and to a certain extent, im sure your parents and your nationality does have an impact on you. but if youve ever studied psychology, i think youve heard of the clean slate (i think thats what they call it) when youre a baby. basically your minds blank and you learn from experience, which is where i think a majority of your personality comes from. for example, say youre born in romania to 100% romanian parents. but literally a day after birth, youre moved around the worl to say guatemala. are you still going to be a backstabing selfish romanian prick? =p. possibly to a certain degree, you may have inherited traits natually through genes from your parents. but the bulk of your personality will come from the environment you grow up in. examples of this would be something like eminem. you could say hes a black acting white guy. he wasnt born like that, he grew up in an urban, primarily black neighborhood.
I'm living in another country at the moment man, I know you can change your scenery.
I was talking about absolute change.
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On November 29 2006 14:17 intrigue wrote:the blank slate idea (tabula rasa) is was used by locke, freud, and aristotle to describe various human traits. wikipedia: Show nested quote +Generally people now recognise the fact that the entire brain is indeed preprogrammed and organised in order to process sensory input, motor control, emotions, and natural responses. These preprogrammed parts of the brain then learn and refine their ability to perform their tasks. going with this, a lot has been shown through twin studies etc that everything really is just a mixture of nature + nurture. i don't know why you guys are bringing this stuff up like it's profound. well i guess if you want to take it further and ask why there are so many hollow mechanized people all around, i'd have to say it's all in the nurture aspect of someone growing up. the friends you make, the ideas you're exposed to, the influences and role models you have. i refuse to believe that it's in someone's genes to be complacent in being a nobody.
-But Not everyones brain is setup the same way. Just like a computer some people have larger hard drives(memory), more ram(multitasking), Better networking cards(communication skills), graphics cards(artistic ability & imagination), or better processors(intelligence speed). They are born with these abilities. Granted you can learn anything but the speed and determination you do this is not just a choice.
Everyone is built to be molded but the tools you came with in your instruction kit just might be broken or missing.
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uugh i do not agree with you at all charlie. errm. people can always upgrade computers. the great thing about the brain is that it learns how to adapt. it truly is a magnificent thing and comparing it to something that remains stagnant, something like a computer, something that is genetic, and dependent on human genes is moronic to say the least. i remember not being able to do sudokus in my head. through practise i can easily do hards all in my head without writing anything down. sometimes i just close my eyes and a lot of the numbers are in their proper places in a matter of seconds. i beleiev all humans possess the proper "equipment" to run about any 'program". I've never had a photographic memory, but through sudokus i started remembering whole lines then eventually whole paragraphs verbatim. my brain adapted to the adrous task i gave it. this equipment literally seems to upgrade it self.
edit- and dont refute with mentall handicapp people because there are exceptions of course. but allegedly people like einstein has a lower iq than people that girl mariyln from parade ( highest IQ) but what has she ever done for us? I have friend whose IQ is techinically higher than einstein's but theya rent geniuses, nor close. in fact they do not possess any talents that my "lower" iqued friends dont have besdes an uncanny ability to be antisocial
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From personal experience all that I can certainly tell so far is that nothing is certain, and bloody sure there ain't no key to happiness in realizing everything around you works mechanically.
Yes, you are much more aware of yourself than all the other fools around you, even though its sad to call them like that.... however lifes goes on for you just like it does for them. It doesn't really help you with anything, all your open-minded mentality.... don't get me wrong, 'open-minded' is the key word in assuring a decent life nowadays.... but crap, life goes on, only making you wonder if it wouldn't be a better (or at least more practical) idea to just shut up, brake your stream of thoughts and live life at a confortable level of numbness......
Go with the flow, better said, with the herd, live like animals (and by that I mean the only purpose of your existence will be survival of the species)...
After all, most of humanity's great philosophers suffered a miserable existence.... yeah their brain twice the normal size didn't brought any of them 1 more drop of happiness...
But maybe I'm a bit pessimistic over here. That's just me.
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Did you realized that maybe there’s a lot more of yourself than you really show. And I don't mean private thoughts, maybe things you want to share but you don’t find a moment or words to do it?
When I was a child, I was a thief. Not the money robbing type, but the abusive sadistic type. I would take things from friends, wait for them to suffer and then somehow give it back to them in a way that they didn't think I stole it from them in the first place. I was experimentalist with emotions, toiling with people, making them cry, making them laugh, making them smile, making them angry, making them feel special, or hated. I researched all the time, looking into tv shows, the way my parents would fight, the patterns in behavior my classmates showed, what personalities seemed favorable, what seemed unfavorable. In the end, I would end up having several different personalities with everyone. I would act like an angel in front of my mother, a domineering savage against my brother, a sad, lonely curious boy in front of girls, and an elitist in front of my friends. But then, I met a person I could not fully calculate. She was a year older than me, blonde with brown eyes. The first time I met her in front of the school's playground, I was somewhat attracted to her at first sight. As I approached her with a stalker-like appearance, she immediately threw a punch at me and called me a "stupid chink!". I was shocked and amused at the same time. As the school aide came to pick me up from the ground and scold at the girl, I told her something strange: I love you. To be honest, I don't quite know why I said that, but the hateful glow in her eyes suddenly turned to a confused one and said,"what are you, some kind of stupid?"
I said, "well if your smarter than me than yeah".
"what makes you think that?"
"obviously you tried to get that point across to me"
"no I think your a stupid chink"
"how come"
"cause you are"
"why does it matter"
"cause you are"
"What if we get married?"
"why do you want that?"
"I think your pretty"
"Your gay."
After that incident, I began questioning the effects I would leave on people. I'm asian, an uncontrollable factor, how would I get her to like me if I'm a stupid chink? I thought about becoming white, changing my hair to blonde, and changing my accent. I asked my mom, why can't I be white? And my mother just look puzzled and told me it was cause of God. So then, I began speculating why the hell God made me Asian, and why make me like a girl who doesn't like me. She explained some things about free will, people have a choice and decide who they like and what they want to be. All that time, thinking I could control everyone just went out into the garbage. I was in fact, never in control of my environment, and it's inhabitants.I was just a piece of the puzzle, a part of the order.
The next time I met her, I was riding on my bike and I saw her crying on the sidewalk.(She actually lived across from my street, quite the convenience.). I tried to ignore her at first, but then she got in the middle of the path and stopped me.
"your chinese right?"
"no I'm korean"
"... I have nothing to do. Let me ride that bike."
"ok"
So I let her ride around the neighborhood, watch her smile from time to time, and I just sat on the sidewalk just staring out into space. AFter awhile, she let me come in into the house and we spent the day playing Yoshi's Island on the snes. Right before I started to head back home, she jumped on my back and told me to be yoshi. It hurt, but I liked it.
From that day forward, we became friends, coming over each other's houses, playing video games together, and making a list of insults at each other for no apparent reason. Then there was this one day she brought super mario 64 and told me she was trying to find yoshi in the game but couldn't. I promised her I would get it for her, borrowed it, and from that day forward, I spent hours on end playing that damn game looking for it. About a month later, I found yoshi ontop of the castle or what not, and I showed it to her. She said, "can't you ride him?" I said no. and then she looked all pissed and what not, and the bitch deleted the file I worked so hard on. Then she said, she was leaving the neighborhood, moving someplace.. She kissed me quick on the cheek and ran out. I didn't know what to do, and I thought it was just one of her stupid ass comments. and that very next day, I didn't see her inside at her house, but just a bunch of men from uhaul picking up stuff and putting them in the truck. I just stood outside, for an hour or so, went home and played mario kart 64. When I saw the truck leave, I had the stupid idea that she was still around, so I went into the empty house and found no one home. I didn't cry, just felt pissed. I shoulda told something to her, a goodbye, anything. I didn't know how to express anything properly, and I realized my failure to communicate with people meaningfully, and all the ideas I wanted to express, were just fucking in my head. (thoughts of happiness, despair, etc.)
I still have that problem, not being able to express myself to other people when I'm in a state. Even on a fucking internet forum, I can't relay my thoughts to each and every one of you in a significant way. All I get through in my head, is that "Quietidiot is just dumbass emo punk on tl.net, fucking rpf-wannabe" is the notion that people get through me. Hilarious in a way, but it just reminds me of how pathetic I can be.
I believe happiness is inexistent, just another word people made up to fill in the gap in between. (although I did not fully get that idea through...fuck...fuck..)
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O yeah, at some point in my life, I believed that everyone around me was just my imagination. Everything was scripted, created out of my insanity, and nothing was real. I tried proving/disproving it, but I found myself looking at paradoxes and dead-ends. My mortal mind cannot understand the brilliant universe that is of an infinite spectrum and level of comprehension so limited.
I also tried disproving the existence of time...
Literally, nearly went crazy doing that.
well not really, just a little exageration
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intrigue
Washington, D.C9933 Posts
quietidiot, i hated your post, i have to be honest with you
so during all this time you spent with this girl, you were never once happy? content? happiness isn't exactly tangible, and so it can perfectly well be a state of being. i had a shitty past i think that kind of reminds me of yours but i knew full well and appreciated the moments when nothing was wrong, when i felt at peace.
even if happiness is just 'the moments in between,' what is bad about that? your body devotes nearly all of its resources to maintain homeostasis, your mind struggles to interpret life in familiar patterns. it's not unreasonable to claim that the absence of pain or discomfort IS a form of pure joy.
nobody's ever really said this to you in response to your posts, but think about it: from what i've seen you're bitter, unappreciative or immature. i mean i find what you have to say often enjoyable but also equally often disgusting. you've had a lot of crap happen to you or you like to think that you have, your self-image or at least the way you like to present yourself is very flawed, and a lot of it probably really isn't your fault, but at least try to be thankful of what you have now.
edit: and please don't take this personally, however hard that is
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I found a dimpled spider, fat and white,
On a white heal-all, holding up a moth
Like a white piece of rigid satin cloth--
Assorted characters of death and blight
Mixed ready to begin the morning right,
Like the ingredients of a witches' broth--
A snow-drop spider, a flower like a froth,
And dead wings carried like a paper kite.
What had that flower to do with being white,
The wayside blue and innocent heal-all?
What brought the kindred spider to that height,
Then steered the white moth thither in the night?
What but design of darkness to appall?--
If design govern in a thing so small.
-Robert Frost
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On November 29 2006 19:09 intrigue wrote:
quietidiot, i hated your post, i have to be honest with you
so during all this time you spent with this girl, you were never once happy? content? happiness isn't exactly tangible, and so it can perfectly well be a state of being. i had a shitty past i think that kind of reminds me of yours but i knew full well and appreciated the moments when nothing was wrong, when i felt at peace.
even if happiness is just 'the moments in between,' what is bad about that? your body devotes nearly all of its resources to maintain homeostasis, your mind struggles to interpret life in familiar patterns. it's not unreasonable to claim that the absence of pain or discomfort IS a form of pure joy.
nobody's ever really said this to you in response to your posts, but think about it: from what i've seen you're bitter, unappreciative or immature. i mean i find what you have to say often enjoyable but also equally often disgusting. you've had a lot of crap happen to you or you like to think that you have, your self-image or at least the way you like to present yourself is very flawed, and a lot of it probably really isn't your fault, but at least try to be thankful of what you have now.
edit: and please don't take this personally, however hard that is
I appreciate your post and what I have posted is actually one of the most poignant childhood memories I have. I swear my grandmother/priest said those exact words at me. I am a cynical bastard, no doubt about it. In that time, I did feel something, but I'm honestly not sure it can classify as "content. Actually, I felt complete. And I felt this emotion only with her, and it's a unique feeling I will never forget. lol, all the girls I've met past her, can't match up to her, she was my perfect one in my mind. (A main reason why I've never had a girlfriend up to the point, everyone just looked the same to me.) But it brings me useless pain, and to me, the past is something you can't do anything about, it's just there for your memories. The present, the future, as I see it, is what that matters, and your right, I should be appreciative that I have all my limbs, not dying of AIDS, a young body, and time. Happiness is always followed by sadness and vice versa. It's sickening, I don't want to deal with it. I just want to be a machine, I just want to contribute to the world so that others don't have to be me. Yes, I realized, I'm weak in that sense, unable to face some of my conflicts, unable to put the past truly behind me. Always trying to rid of these beautiful things that make up a human being. Foolish, stupid, and shameful. I am truly immature.
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this shit just makes me feel depressed
why cant we get back to threads like the testosterone( holy crap spelled that right on first try!) thread?
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Looks like we have a board full of emo cynics who have all questioned existence :o j/k
IMO it's kind of bad (hard to explain, not really bad, but sort of like "pointless") to question our existences and the existences of the universe...
The way I look at the universe, purpose in regards to human beings is on two levels: One, what is the purpose of mankind's existence in the universe? and Two, what is the purpose of mankind's existence to mankind itself?
The answer to the first question, so far, is that humans do not have a purpose in the universe-- arrived at simply because I could not come up with another explanation.
To the second question, I think is where the concept of gears come in. I know the feeling when you sort of just sit there and suddenly have a split-second feeling of how vast the universeworld actually is compared to you, a feeling of being "trapped" in a single perspective without any means of reaching out and just "sensing." There is a yearning to make a difference, to simply transfer ideas into actions without having to go through the hassle of using the physical body.
However, the view of people as gears created and each turning to the forces of other gears, I think, is one that should be abandoned once arrived at. Humans exist in society for the sole purpose of living out their lives, seeking happiness (most important), and fulfilling whatever they fulfill- there is no real "why," it just happens. For those people whose fulfillments have become milestones in history, I think, even if they did question their existence, they surely saw that there was no purpose to being aware of this fact, and simply contented with themselves in being gears. They, through focusing their efforts on being gears, were able to become large and powerful gears that has influence on the entire clock, the human collective, itself.
Sometimes, when I think of the emptiness out there and despair over my insignificance, I envy the mentally retarded who seem to live in their own oblivious worlds. They too, are surely gears that are turned and in turn turn others, but are perfectly content with being gears. After all, we humans are not cold, metal gears. We are warm-blooded gears, and if we focus on simply being gears and accept our position, one day we too might have a chance to become a large and powerful gear that would influence the machine that is the human collective, one that will stay in place even after our deaths.
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+ Show Spoiler +On November 29 2006 12:06 dancefayedance!~ wrote:I know yout post isn't entirely concerned with what I'm about to post, but it wouldn't make much sense if you didnt understand where im basing my opinion of off. Probably confusing you. I remember being in the same boat as you. I was pretty depressed not for myself but for other people with the same diposition as the one you're describing. Then one day my girlfriend stumbled upon an excerpt from self-reliance by ralph waldo emerson. + Show Spoiler +1) There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried. 2) Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being. 3) Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs. 4) Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. 5) What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. This rule, equally arduous in actual and in intellectual life, may serve for the whole distinction between greatness and meanness. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude. 6) There is a mortifying experience in particular, which does not fail to wreak itself also in the general history; I mean "the foolish face of praise," the forced smile which we put on in company where we do not feel at ease in answer to conversation which does not interest us. The muscles, not spontaneously moved, but moved by a low usurping wilfulness, grow tight about the outline of the face with the most disagreeable sensation. For nonconformity the world whips you with its displeasure. And therefore a man must know how to estimate a sour face. 7) The other terror that scares us from self-trust is our consistency; a reverence for our past act or word, because the eyes of others have no other data for computing our orbit than our past acts, and we are loath to disappoint them. 8) Why drag about this corpse of your memory, lest you contradict somewhat you have stated in this or that public place? Suppose you should contradict yourself; what then? It seems to be a rule of wisdom never to rely on your memory alone, scarcely even in acts of pure memory, but to bring the past for judgment into the thousand-eyed present, and live ever in a new day. 9) A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.—'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.'—Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood. I have more to say, but I think reading this first would make it clearer. Once you read this intothewow, pm me and I can send you a discussion, that really elaborates on my views and your views, that I had with my girlfriend. It is really long to post here and I don't know if you'd even be interested..so... your choice
this reminds me of the transcendentalists (or how ever you spell that). look <---- the fact that i had to write that shows that it is human nature to appeal to other human beings. i think people act differently around different people in order to show that different person that they will be worthwhile (this mostly occurs with people and their gf or bf). i do not know why this happens but it is very over abundant for some reason. maybe it just mixes things up and/or disguises the monotony of every day life? one of my friends from school used to be a video game nerd guy who played WoW 12 hours a day. now he is a very socially liked person who smokes weed, drinks and hangs out with many people daily. he doesnt care about school, but he likes a certain teacher who knows that he doesnt care and in a way supports him. i know this because one day he wrote a paper about how little he really cares about school and he got a 100%, which is a very rare grade to get.
he is what i would call a non-conformist but does he do it for himself or to please other people with his presence? he seems to be fine and "happy" but my other friend mentioned to me that he was moderately depressed. does it take away from yourself to please others? if so, is it because you don't have any time to yourself to reflect on ideas.
another thought i had was about the "routine" argument and how monotony can get very repetitive and boring but nobody seems to care. nobody stands out and says, HEY WHY?! i have found the answer. it works. most people here have access to heated housing, apartments, dorms or w/e. you have money enough to afford a computer and internet, or you are able to get to a library and post on an online forum. you probably play sc, eat 3 meals a day most days, jack off regularly and drink plenty of coke. people are wondering why nobody steps up and says "why are we still doing this"? you know why? its because IT WORKS. if you changed things drastically to the point where everything was different (i.e. school was held at random times or w/e) FUCK I DONT KNOW WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS. this goes all teh way back to the beginning of this thread. i have an idea, i cant express it, FUCK ME!!!!! can someone help me out by chance? think of something im talking about and go deeper?? this sucks.
anyway, if a very poor person read this thread chances are that he would say "well shit, they have it pretty damn good what are they complaining about? the fact is, the grass is always greener on the other side of the highway and change always happen when you least expect it.
also i think happiness is remembering things that make you laugh or make you feel good about what you have done. im sure many people enjoy playing SC (being "happy" while playing it) but when you are playing sc are you saying to yourself "what a fucking blast i am having RIGHT NOW"? no! later when you watch a replay or talk to the obs of the game is when you feel good about it. same goes with any physical activities. when you start thinking about how happy you are, the feeling goes away.
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i wish i was one of those robots. I am sad atm, i wish to write a rant but i dont feel like drawing attention with a new thread, nor do i know if this is the correct topic to post one, read if you care:
+ Show Spoiler +
Today it ends another cycle. I wish i could have ended it sooner, but it was not in my hands, it never was. Lately i started to have a feeling things had changed, and today i found myself right.
It all happened when i admitted to myself that i liked her. I was trying so hard to think i didnt, but in the bottom, i did. And she poped it out with her amazing ability to read me. So yes we started dating regularly (2 or 3 times per week) for a long time. I asked her 3 times if she would be my gf, and she awnsered to all the same awnser: "i do like you, im just not ready yet". Fine, i got tired at the 3rd try. I told her ok ggnore, i wont see you anymore for a while, neither i want to talk to you. She was my best (female) friend atm. So i was totally broke, she realized and told me to give her a chance. I felt like she did had interest. So i said yes. But i told her, that if she was really sure, that if she didnt, it didnt have to continue. She said yes please dont leave me.
4 days later, she comes to my house, and tells me there is no chemistry between us, and we should drop it. I tried to act normally and told her, ok np, as you wish. Later she had a crisis;; she told herself she was a fool for letting me go, and she was in a very bad shape. I had to go to her house, to comfort her. We kissed. Wow... i thought that she didnt meant that at all, she was just unsure.
Things continued the same way, and she had a lot of trouble. So i naturally noticed, and told her, how about if we're friends? you need one more than a boyfriend... She said that she would appreciate it, but she'd reallly like to keep me the way i was. I accepted, mainly because i thought things would go the way i wanted someday.
Today, almost 1 1/2 months after that happened, i asked her how things were going. I didnt have any thought about tellng her to become my gf. She said that she's under a lot of troubles right now, and she sees me as a friend. Game over myself.
I hate this section of my life. Im sure i had an anti-girl vaccum when i was born.
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On November 29 2006 19:58 [jOyO] wrote: + Show Spoiler +On November 29 2006 12:06 dancefayedance!~ wrote:I know yout post isn't entirely concerned with what I'm about to post, but it wouldn't make much sense if you didnt understand where im basing my opinion of off. Probably confusing you. I remember being in the same boat as you. I was pretty depressed not for myself but for other people with the same diposition as the one you're describing. Then one day my girlfriend stumbled upon an excerpt from self-reliance by ralph waldo emerson. + Show Spoiler +1) There is a time in every man's education when he arrives at the conviction that envy is ignorance; that imitation is suicide; that he must take himself for better, for worse, as his portion; that though the wide universe is full of good, no kernel of nourishing corn can come to him but through his toil bestowed on that plot of ground which is given to him to till. The power which resides in him is new in nature, and none but he knows what that is which he can do, nor does he know until he has tried. 2) Trust thyself: every heart vibrates to that iron string. Accept the place the divine providence has found for you, the society of your contemporaries, the connection of events. Great men have always done so, and confided themselves childlike to the genius of their age, betraying their perception that the absolutely trustworthy was seated at their heart, working through their hands, predominating in all their being. 3) Society everywhere is in conspiracy against the manhood of every one of its members. Society is a joint-stock company, in which the members agree, for the better securing of his bread to each shareholder, to surrender the liberty and culture of the eater. The virtue in most request is conformity. Self-reliance is its aversion. It loves not realities and creators, but names and customs. 4) Whoso would be a man must be a nonconformist. He who would gather immortal palms must not be hindered by the name of goodness, but must explore if it be goodness. Nothing is at last sacred but the integrity of your own mind. 5) What I must do is all that concerns me, not what the people think. This rule, equally arduous in actual and in intellectual life, may serve for the whole distinction between greatness and meanness. It is the harder, because you will always find those who think they know what is your duty better than you know it. It is easy in the world to live after the world's opinion; it is easy in solitude to live after our own; but the great man is he who in the midst of the crowd keeps with perfect sweetness the independence of solitude. 6) There is a mortifying experience in particular, which does not fail to wreak itself also in the general history; I mean "the foolish face of praise," the forced smile which we put on in company where we do not feel at ease in answer to conversation which does not interest us. The muscles, not spontaneously moved, but moved by a low usurping wilfulness, grow tight about the outline of the face with the most disagreeable sensation. For nonconformity the world whips you with its displeasure. And therefore a man must know how to estimate a sour face. 7) The other terror that scares us from self-trust is our consistency; a reverence for our past act or word, because the eyes of others have no other data for computing our orbit than our past acts, and we are loath to disappoint them. 8) Why drag about this corpse of your memory, lest you contradict somewhat you have stated in this or that public place? Suppose you should contradict yourself; what then? It seems to be a rule of wisdom never to rely on your memory alone, scarcely even in acts of pure memory, but to bring the past for judgment into the thousand-eyed present, and live ever in a new day. 9) A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines. With consistency a great soul has simply nothing to do. He may as well concern himself with his shadow on the wall. Speak what you think now in hard words, and to-morrow speak what to-morrow thinks in hard words again, though it contradict every thing you said to-day.—'Ah, so you shall be sure to be misunderstood.'—Is it so bad, then, to be misunderstood? Pythagoras was misunderstood, and Socrates, and Jesus, and Luther, and Copernicus, and Galileo, and Newton, and every pure and wise spirit that ever took flesh. To be great is to be misunderstood. I have more to say, but I think reading this first would make it clearer. Once you read this intothewow, pm me and I can send you a discussion, that really elaborates on my views and your views, that I had with my girlfriend. It is really long to post here and I don't know if you'd even be interested..so... your choice this reminds me of the transcendentalists (or how ever you spell that). look <---- the fact that i had to write that shows that it is human nature to appeal to other human beings. i think people act differently around different people in order to show that different person that they will be worthwhile (this mostly occurs with people and their gf or bf). i do not know why this happens but it is very over abundant for some reason. maybe it just mixes things up and/or disguises the monotony of every day life? one of my friends from school used to be a video game nerd guy who played WoW 12 hours a day. now he is a very socially liked person who smokes weed, drinks and hangs out with many people daily. he doesnt care about school, but he likes a certain teacher who knows that he doesnt care and in a way supports him. i know this because one day he wrote a paper about how little he really cares about school and he got a 100%, which is a very rare grade to get. he is what i would call a non-conformist but does he do it for himself or to please other people with his presence? he seems to be fine and "happy" but my other friend mentioned to me that he was moderately depressed. does it take away from yourself to please others? if so, is it because you don't have any time to yourself to reflect on ideas. another thought i had was about the "routine" argument and how monotony can get very repetitive and boring but nobody seems to care. nobody stands out and says, HEY WHY?! i have found the answer. it works. most people here have access to heated housing, apartments, dorms or w/e. you have money enough to afford a computer and internet, or you are able to get to a library and post on an online forum. you probably play sc, eat 3 meals a day most days, jack off regularly and drink plenty of coke. people are wondering why nobody steps up and says "why are we still doing this"? you know why? its because IT WORKS. if you changed things drastically to the point where everything was different (i.e. school was held at random times or w/e) FUCK I DONT KNOW WHERE IM GOING WITH THIS. this goes all teh way back to the beginning of this thread. i have an idea, i cant express it, FUCK ME!!!!! can someone help me out by chance? think of something im talking about and go deeper?? this sucks. anyway, if a very poor person read this thread chances are that he would say "well shit, they have it pretty damn good what are they complaining about? the fact is, the grass is always greener on the other side of the highway and change always happen when you least expect it. also i think happiness is remembering things that make you laugh or make you feel good about what you have done. im sure many people enjoy playing SC (being "happy" while playing it) but when you are playing sc are you saying to yourself "what a fucking blast i am having RIGHT NOW"? no! later when you watch a replay or talk to the obs of the game is when you feel good about it. same goes with any physical activities. when you start thinking about how happy you are, the feeling goes away.
Who ever thought a thread that started off with, "the biggest pimple WTF?" would get not only 100 + posts. But a lengthy post like this.
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On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:StartI just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff. After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.
What is wrong with making people laugh? I agree that making fun of others in order to do so isn't good (especially if that person is in the same room) but at least he is trying. You on the other hand are sitting there silent, by yourself, even though you are with the company of others. What is the point of being around other people? To connect. Certianly not the only point of our existence but it is a very important one. To connect with people, share views, experiences, understanding etc.
Now you call her a "Pile of flesh" this is very arrogant, you do not even listen to what she has to say and you have the nerve to call her a pile of flesh?
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.
Supposed to do... would you rather be sitting there in total silence? You seem to think that everyone should share your views, and that if they don't they are boring or... a robot.
Sorry but you are an ignorant person if that's what you think. She is probably trying to get to know you so that maybe you can find some common ground, something you are both interested in for a converation, but instead you choose to be anti-social and ignore her.
What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG".
What difference have you made in the world? Not everyone is going to be the next Einstein but everyone does have goals, everyone wants to be important and to make a difference. The point is, you live your life how you want to. It is your life afterall. You seem like you are saying some people aren’t living the right way, that somehow you have found a better way to live and only some people realise it.
Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
How is this the only life one can choose? There are many more things to life than this, in this paragraph it’s made to sound like that is all. This goes off into the “what is our purpose?” crap. Your purpose is to live your life, do what you feel is best, what you ENJOY (obviously within limitation) and what makes you happy.
What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself.
The fact is people cannot act the way they might always want, for instance could you ignore your boss at work if he were to start talking to you about something you aren’t interested in? No, you wouldn’t. Maybe you don’t see the reason in small talk, other people do. It’s how we connect with each other, it does not mean that that is how deep they go. Have you ever tried talking about this with your friend? Maybe he thinks the exact same thing about you.
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RE: feeling like you have to do what other people do
it's not good to conform without a reason, but neither is it good to be different without a reason.
being a rebel without a cause is just as undesirable as being a mindless follower, if not more so. you shouldn't pride yourself on being different, but instead pride yourself on doing the right things.
and sometimes, the right thing to do is that way just BECAUSE everybody else does it that way. if the custom for showing appreciation is by clapping, then clapping is much better way to show appreciation than raising a finger.
i've heard it argued that trying too hard to be different is, ironically, a cry for attention; and also an excuse for a feeling of elitism, kinda like conspiracy theorists.
RE: feeling like everything people do is habitual/scripted
there's numerous decent reasons why that girl might've started smalltalk other than just habit. 70% of people are extroverts, meaning they love to talk. she's probably one, and probably figured you were too, so in her mind starting the conversation might make you both happy. also by chit-chatting, you might've found out she's not as horrible as originally conceived; so there's potential for a meaningful friendship or something. and talking also usually makes most people (maybe 70%) feel more at ease, even if it's just boring smalltalk. in most cases, starting chitchat would be the right thing to do.
encoding this sort of logic into habit is just a way of remembering what's worked well or what you've thought through in the past, so you don't have to think it through from the basics every time. this is kinda like how you probably just have the opening starcraft builds memorized, like how to split your peons, when to build your first supply, etc., and don't have to think about them every time you play. it's good to be able to find the logic behind your habits and change them if need be, but habit is generally a good thing.
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On November 30 2006 00:35 KoveN- wrote:
...
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
...
good post
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On November 29 2006 00:00 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:
I believe that free will does not exist. What is going to happen is based on, in any given moment, what already has happened. Free will is an illusion that goes hand in hand with time.
I do, however, think that will exists. I think that we can try harder to do whatever we do, including but not limited to our understanding of our existence.
How can will exist without free will? If you are choosing to exercise your will in trying harder at what you do, is that choice not an exercise of free will in itself?
Your question doesn't make sense.
It's like how can a hamburger exist without free hamburger.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
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On November 30 2006 02:04 0x64 wrote:
Your question doesn't make sense.
It's like how can a hamburger exist without free hamburger.
Reread our posts and think about it some more.
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Netherlands19135 Posts
Still a good thread btw and a good read. Might post another reply later with a content that reflects a bit more on the replies since my last post in the thread.
But don't forget that in todays society nothing is simple anymore to alot of people. Pressure to succeed it everywhere, stress, socially accepted crap. This kinda stuff has the tendency to drive alot of people to escapism and apathy.
It worth taking a look at the "why" certain people are that way. Especially in modern (western?) social perspective.
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[QUOTE]On November 30 2006 00:35 KoveN- wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:
[url=http://www.goear.com/listen.php?v=fa35999]Start[/url]
I just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff.
After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.[/quote]
What is wrong with making people laugh? I agree that making fun of others in order to do so isn't good (especially if that person is in the same room) but at least he is trying. You on the other hand are sitting there silent, by yourself, even though you are with the company of others. What is the point of being around other people? To connect. Certianly not the only point of our existence but it is a very important one. To connect with people, share views, experiences, understanding etc.
Now you call her a "Pile of flesh" this is very arrogant, you do not even listen to what she has to say and you have the nerve to call her a pile of flesh?
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
[quote]She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.[/quote]
Supposed to do... would you rather be sitting there in total silence? You seem to think that everyone should share your views, and that if they don't they are boring or... a robot.
Sorry but you are an ignorant person if that's what you think. She is probably trying to get to know you so that maybe you can find some common ground, something you are both interested in for a converation, but instead you choose to be anti-social and ignore her.
[quote]What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG". [/quote]
What difference have you made in the world? Not everyone is going to be the next Einstein but everyone does have goals, everyone wants to be important and to make a difference. The point is, you live your life how you want to. It is your life afterall. You seem like you are saying some people aren’t living the right way, that somehow you have found a better way to live and only some people realise it.
[quote]Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
How is this the only life one can choose? There are many more things to life than this, in this paragraph it’s made to sound like that is all. This goes off into the “what is our purpose?” crap. Your purpose is to live your life, do what you feel is best, what you ENJOY (obviously within limitation) and what makes you happy.
[quote]What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself. [/quote]
The fact is people cannot act the way they might always want, for instance could you ignore your boss at work if he were to start talking to you about something you aren’t interested in? No, you wouldn’t. Maybe you don’t see the reason in small talk, other people do. It’s how we connect with each other, it does not mean that that is how deep they go. Have you ever tried talking about this with your friend? Maybe he thinks the exact same thing about you.
[/QUOTE]
nice rebuttle
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On November 30 2006 02:25 Plexa wrote:think about it
Explain this nonsense.
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is awesome32274 Posts
Answered in Bold.
[QUOTE]On November 30 2006 00:35 KoveN- wrote:
[QUOTE]On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:
[url=http://www.goear.com/listen.php?v=fa35999]Start[/url]
I just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff.
After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized.[/quote]
What is wrong with making people laugh? I agree that making fun of others in order to do so isn't good (especially if that person is in the same room) but at least he is trying. You on the other hand are sitting there silent, by yourself, even though you are with the company of others. What is the point of being around other people? To connect. Certianly not the only point of our existence but it is a very important one. To connect with people, share views, experiences, understanding etc.
You dont know the guy. I know the guy. I 've known the guy for more than 8 years and hes always like that. Its not like he just tries to make the girl laught. He's always like trying so hard to make people laught it is pretty sad.
Now you call her a "Pile of flesh" this is very arrogant, you do not even listen to what she has to say and you have the nerve to call her a pile of flesh?
With the word robot i wasnt trying to insult. I guess i just call them robots (not everybody, i guess depends on what we are calling robots) because im on this side of the skull. Maybe if i was on the outside, i would call myself a robot.
Im only being "arrogant" in my thinking in that moment, because i came to think of it like that. Imagine you started thinking the world was nothing to you but a program (matrix like). Would you call the other people in a mannerful way when you are thinking atm that they are nothing but an algorithm?
Im just lost in my though
Everyone is different, some people have things in common with others but everyone is unique. You can't go up to someone and start talking about life and the universe, you need to build raport with someone first. No wonder geeks are so anti-social, I guess now I see why. You fail to realise the simple things, the subtle conversation that might not seem to have a point or a goal conversation wise, you need to get to know someone first, then you can start to see what they are like, how they see the world etc.
This is exxactly what i am questioning, and you make it seem that it has to be THIS way. Why do you have to fake in the outside things for, maybe, a long time in order to achieve a connection with other person?. Imagine you like, i dont know death metal. You are in a pub, and you start to talk to a cheerleader looking-like girl. Would you mention death metal in your first moments of speaking? No. Why? Isnt exactly what you like? Chances are that maybe if you play like a fool, you will continue to talk to the girl, even if its not the real you. Dont get me wrong, its not like irl i act like im writing here. I will fake stuff, drunk in a bar if i want to bang a girl. Geeks anti-social? rofl, i dont know why you have to attack someone because just of some though. I dont know what it has to do with the whole conversation we are having.
[quote]She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside.[/quote]
Supposed to do... would you rather be sitting there in total silence? You seem to think that everyone should share your views, and that if they don't they are boring or... a robot.
Sorry but you are an ignorant person if that's what you think. She is probably trying to get to know you so that maybe you can find some common ground, something you are both interested in for a converation, but instead you choose to be anti-social and ignore her.
You suppose wrong again. I already know the girl (if you can ever really known someone, SOMETHING WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS TOPIC). And I already mentioned the silence thing. It is no the talking that i dont like. The automatized talking. The phrase: "she only talked because she had to" is only a though i had in my mind, to continue with what i was thinking.
[quote]What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: "Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG". [/quote]
What difference have you made in the world? Not everyone is going to be the next Einstein but everyone does have goals, everyone wants to be important and to make a difference. The point is, you live your life how you want to. It is your life afterall. You seem like you are saying some people aren’t living the right way, that somehow you have found a better way to live and only some people realise it.
Exactly. I said that i was on the outside of myself, maybe i would call myself a robot. I don't know why you try to attack me so hard
[quote]Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white?
How is this the only life one can choose? There are many more things to life than this, in this paragraph it’s made to sound like that is all. This goes off into the “what is our purpose?” crap. Your purpose is to live your life, do what you feel is best, what you ENJOY (obviously within limitation) and what makes you happy.
[quote]What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing.
Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself. [/quote]
The fact is people cannot act the way they might always want, for instance could you ignore your boss at work if he were to start talking to you about something you aren’t interested in? No, you wouldn’t. Maybe you don’t see the reason in small talk, other people do. It’s how we connect with each other, it does not mean that that is how deep they go. Have you ever tried talking about this with your friend? Maybe he thinks the exact same thing about you.
[/QUOTE]
Next time read the whole thread. (or at least my posts) before answering.
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On November 30 2006 07:33 SuperJongMan wrote:Explain this nonsense.
ALL IN ALL
YOURE ALL JUST BRICKS IN THE WALL
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Maybe you should read Kafka ?
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is awesome32274 Posts
I read kafka, camus, etc in high school. The point is im trying to make this a "thoughts thread" rather than I said that because camus said it too and he has a big e-penis so no one can go against it. Because those threads end in people quoting sources all over and not adding nothing themselves. :<
edit: thanks anyway
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On November 29 2006 14:17 intrigue wrote:the blank slate idea (tabula rasa) is was used by locke, freud, and aristotle to describe various human traits. wikipedia: Show nested quote +Generally people now recognise the fact that the entire brain is indeed preprogrammed and organised in order to process sensory input, motor control, emotions, and natural responses. These preprogrammed parts of the brain then learn and refine their ability to perform their tasks. going with this, a lot has been shown through twin studies etc that everything really is just a mixture of nature + nurture. i don't know why you guys are bringing this stuff up like it's profound. well i guess if you want to take it further and ask why there are so many hollow mechanized people all around, i'd have to say it's all in the nurture aspect of someone growing up. the friends you make, the ideas you're exposed to, the influences and role models you have. i refuse to believe that it's in someone's genes to be complacent in being a nobody.
i brought it up because one of the posters stated that they believe that being from a certain country is going to predispose you to certain traits. i think he said spanish party, romanians back stab, etc etc. i was just simply trying to provide a different perspective. i was actually gonna mention the twin thing too, but ive got no home computer atm.
to smurg:
what country did you live in and where are you now? if youre going from somewhere from the us to australia, the change is probalby minimal at best. id imagine going from a developed country to a third world country would be a major change.
what do you mean by absolute change?
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Wat Kafka writings deal with this?
i wanna check some out
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You dont know the guy. I know the guy. I 've known the guy for more than 8 years and hes always like that. Its not like he just tries to make the girl laught. He's always like trying so hard to make people laught it is pretty sad.
Yeah.. that really does sound sad... wtf ? I am assuming things because you aren't telling the full story. This is the way I am reading it, all in all your first post didn't really explain much at all, as you say it's tough to express and I agree but reading this paragraph just doesn't make sense. To me making people laugh is a wonderful quality in a person. You are right though, I don't know him but you need to provide a better description.
This is a limitation of the internet when it comes to discussing something like this. It goes far deeper then a just one particular event, I would have to have met you and your friend to be able to elaborate further, maybe I'm missing the point of your post, I don't know, this is getting pretty confusing.
Im only being "arrogant" in my thinking in that moment, because i came to think of it like that. Imagine you started thinking the world was nothing to you but a program (matrix like). Would you call the other people in a mannerful way when you are thinking atm that they are nothing but an algorithm?
Im just lost in my though
The matrix is real maen. No, seriously, it's all in your head.
This is exxactly what i am questioning, and you make it seem that it has to be THIS way. Why do you have to fake in the outside things for, maybe, a long time in order to achieve a connection with other person?. Imagine you like, i dont know death metal. You are in a pub, and you start to talk to a cheerleader looking-like girl. Would you mention death metal in your first moments of speaking? No. Why? Isnt exactly what you like? Chances are that maybe if you play like a fool, you will continue to talk to the girl, even if its not the real you. Dont get me wrong, its not like irl i act like im writing here. I will fake stuff, drunk in a bar if i want to bang a girl. Geeks anti-social? rofl, i dont know why you have to attack someone because just of some though. I dont know what it has to do with the whole conversation we are having.
Why fix what isn't broken? There are alot of people that do act the way they want. I know people that could not care less what people think of them, they don't do it to seem cool but are just like that. Other's want to fit in, so they might disguise themselves to certain people in order to do so.
Personally I don't see anything wrong, it is their choice. Everyone wants to belong, it's just that some have a different way of achieving it, because everyone is different.
You suppose wrong again. I already know the girl (if you can ever really known someone, SOMETHING WE ARE DISCUSSING IN THIS TOPIC). And I already mentioned the silence thing. It is no the talking that i dont like. The automatized talking. The phrase: "she only talked because she had to" is only a though i had in my mind, to continue with what i was thinking.
Obviously you don't really know her then. No one is a robot, they might apear that way on the outside, maybe that is all she is letting you see. She would have reasons, maybe she doesn't like you, maybe she feels you don't want to know her. I know I wouldn't try to get to know someone that just ignored me.
One point I'd like to make, and it ties in with how people percieve things, it doesn't really matter what I would write in my posts, you saw it as an attack and imediately went on the defensive, and disregarded all of what I had to say where as others saw it differently.
This is human nature, I'm not saying I don't do it as well. We all do. Everyones views and beliefs has an extremely strong efect on how they percieve things. Someone that truly believes something, however false it may be will go to any extent to defend it.
Next time read the whole thread. (or at least my posts) before answering.
I'm reading this on and off at work, I am sorry I can't help it missing some things.
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is awesome32274 Posts
Well sorry for not writting a whole bio on the guy im calling an idiot for making people laught AT ALL COSTS. You missed the caps part i guess.
If you dont have info, ask for it. Dont assume things.
I told you, im not using the word robot literally. Its just an expression to explain a way of behaving. Im just thinking of something here.
I taked it offensive. Because you took one phrase of mine and answered by writting something about geeks. Where the fuck did that came from?
The matrix is real maen. No, seriously, it's all in your head.
what kind of answer is that? i'm making an analogy.
Thanks for ruining the discussion on the thread btw.
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On November 30 2006 03:02 Dametri wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2006 02:04 0x64 wrote:
Your question doesn't make sense.
It's like how can a hamburger exist without free hamburger.
Reread our posts and think about it some more.
I think he is telling you that the "free" in free will is an illusion, if I interpreted his post correctly.
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lol ok. I ruined the thread now, whatever.
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is awesome32274 Posts
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You made this thread to hear peoples oppinions and thoughts, I gave you mine and now you're telling me to shut up? How old are you?
Oh, I missed the caps, it's all SO clear now, thank you. lol.
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Aotearoa39261 Posts
On November 30 2006 07:44 j0ehoe wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2006 07:33 SuperJongMan wrote:On November 30 2006 02:25 Plexa wrote:think about it Explain this nonsense. ALL IN ALL YOURE ALL JUST BRICKS IN THE WALL Gold star for you!
now take it the next step further...
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is awesome32274 Posts
On November 30 2006 21:38 KoveN- wrote:
You made this thread to hear peoples oppinions and thoughts, I gave you mine and now you're telling me to shut up? How old are you?
Oh, I missed the caps, it's all SO clear now, thank you. lol.
Yeah i also said, "think then post", seems you mixed those up.
I answer every question or answer you put. You just prefer to answer with "lol". Nice.
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On November 30 2006 21:17 IntoTheWow wrote:Well sorry for not writting a whole bio on the guy im calling an idiot for making people laught AT ALL COSTS. You missed the caps part i guess. If you dont have info, ask for it. Dont assume things. I told you, im not using the word robot literally. Its just an expression to explain a way of behaving. Im just thinking of something here. I taked it offensive. Because you took one phrase of mine and answered by writting something about geeks. Where the fuck did that came from? what kind of answer is that? i'm making an analogy. Thanks for ruining the discussion on the thread btw.
I find it funny you are getting so worked up about what someone says on the internet, are you really that insecure? It was not a personal attack, I was saying it as I just had that particular thought while I was writing, it was more reflecting then an attack against you.
You need to relax buddy.
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is awesome32274 Posts
Go post stupid post in other threads. Im just pissed because everyone was having a nice discussion about something. But theres always an idiot that has to appear with the lol-attitude to come post stupid shit in the wrong place.
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On November 30 2006 21:55 IntoTheWow wrote:
Go post stupid post in other threads. Im just pissed because everyone was having a nice discussion about something. But theres always an idiot that has to appear with the lol-attitude to come post stupid shit in the wrong place.
I am being real, you seem like a closed minded hipocrite. What is a "lol attitude" exactly? This just proves that you shrugged off my previous posts, labeling me as this... even though I have added alot to this discussion.
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is awesome32274 Posts
Ok, someone ban this idiot or ban me.
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You guys are going nowhere with that. Give it up.
Back on topic:
It seems to me that if you start all the way back since when we were amebae and connect the dots you will end up seeing that all people have basic rules of behavior that they follow unconsciously, like regular animals do, basic needs, the survival instinct, so one gets to a point when everyone seems to have their particular way of dealing with life, surviving, and you find that a good way of going about it is trying to be different, since logically doing things the same way as everyone else is not going to give you any kind of edge, so you start to see other people as unfitting and try to be distinct in an attempt to be "better", as in law of the fittest.
But also, other people might no go that way, or might give up that point of view for other ones, so they wont have as much of this need of being different as one does because they are concentrating in another idea of how to go about life. For instance, in the last several years, I try to influence other people more because that way it seems natural that it will make me more "fit", "better", so I do that by doing things the way I think they should be done, being nice to everyone and so on, playing by the rules that I think are good. I end up doing things that others might not bother doing because they are "too good" to go that way themselves.
As long as i've had that kind of view (that is, that other people seem dull and that I have to be "better" somehow) its affected my way of doing things. For example, I do not pay much attention in class because i see patterns in the group behavior that make me think everyone else is a robot and don't think for themselves when studying, and it makes me refuse to do things that way.
So the main idea that I want to put in the spotlight is that we have evolved as biological machines but the basics are still there if you dig down enough into the behaviors, so any way other choose to act is natural in that it must have an undisclosed originality, its their attempt of filling their basic needs. I think they might look like robots but in fact they are doing what they think is best with the resources they have at hand (their body, intellect, and so on) to get through their problems, because biologically it is what everyone has been set to do, survive, play with the probabilities and hope for the best. Very few people might gamble with that and end up doing things in an original way, but its understandable given the intuitively known probabilities.
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On November 30 2006 21:45 Plexa wrote:Show nested quote +On November 30 2006 07:44 j0ehoe wrote:On November 30 2006 07:33 SuperJongMan wrote:On November 30 2006 02:25 Plexa wrote:think about it Explain this nonsense. ALL IN ALL YOURE ALL JUST BRICKS IN THE WALL Gold star for you! now take it the next step further...
YES, GOLD STAR!!!!! next step..?? ;x
this thread made me go listen to floyd for a while yesterday
anyway....why are you two flaming the shit outta each other? this was a good thread...
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yeah seems i got here too late :/
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Or she was just trying to be social and nice.
Believe it or not but being social is instictual for many people.
Girls are far more socially adept than guys, go out to any club and you'll see that. Girls in groups with guys trying to mingle, its always the guys talking to the girls. Or the GUYS buying GIRLS the drinks.
Was it this way in caveman times? Hell no .. guys just went up and fucked girls. In our modern society however pussy has more monetary value than dick (bunch of bullshit) because guys cower to the social tactics girls employ (holding out on guys .. getting them to buy them stuff .. etc).
What I'm saying is you might think that the girl's automatic reaction to start a conversation was tastless and superficial .. but from her point of view its simply a matter of improving the situation at hand (an awkward silence if I might assume).
What does she have to lose out of it? She knows by talking she'll befriend you .. or at least keep you on a neutral level with her.
Its kind of like that game RISK .. in a social environment it definetaly helps to "befriend" individuals one at a time (taking over the room as you would the world in the game RISK). Lots of reasons for this .. one being if I befriend that cockblock at 10 PM then when I'm trying to take her friend back to my house at 2 AM she won't try and drag her friend away from me.
Point being don't automatically assume you know other people's motives and if someone is doing something "without thinking" (like a robot), then this is probably something that has worked for them over time and they've "adapted to" .. if it brought negative consequences upon them I'd hardly believe they would do it "automatically" or without thinking about it.
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On November 28 2006 21:46 IntoTheWow wrote:StartI just came back from a friend's house who happened to be with his girlfriend. Shallow, cold, empty.. Oh well... He was telling a story about when we where kids (he has the "pissing old aunt" attitude, I can't stand it sometimes). Thing is he always tells this kind of stories even if he has to humiliate lots of people just to steal a laugh from his girlfriends, whatever. He’s not really a friend, but a guy I have known for a long time, and I guess that’s why I keep up with this kind of stuff. After some time he managed to get his girlfriend to laugh about something he said, and walked to the kitchen to do something. I didn’t know exactly what because I wasn’t really paying attention. I came back from my thoughts just to find myself in a room alone with this "pile of flesh". There was, of course, and uncomfortable silence. I was thinking of an excuse to leave, but then she started talking about something as I nodded without listening. That’s when I realized. She only started talking because that is what she was supposed to do. There was no decision behind that act. Just an urge from inside to speak; like she needed to (the phone is ringing, Neo). That is just a reflex. I started thinking of all the people that act with reflex based actions daily. The "hi", repugnance, filling silence with shallow words, etc. I though about all the people that live under the illusion of thinking their actions come from their will only, and not because they are imposed from outside. Pause They were definitely not slaves, neither suffered this "thing". "They", I then though "most people" suited it better. People with a "soul" are hard to find. People that have a different way of thinking, of expressing themselves, people who act randomly (good random, not bad random). What difference did this girl made in the world? One more robot? But its useless disposing of her. As we know, the world is a machine made from millions of gears and parts (or people) who are supposed to act in a certain way to action other mechanisms in other people. Broken pieces usually end in a newspaper picture, inside a bag or in front of a judge. No matter how bad the piece works (consciously or unconsciously), they only way of living inside the machine is adapting themselves to the other gears. We can't go against the guy with the thick glasses saying something like: " Dr. Ferguson, even if your logic tells you that killing them is not a crime because they never lived, you are WRONG". Between all the noise inside my head, spiraling down and accelerating... Because the mind works that way, it auto-feeds itself and once it starts you can't really stop it. I guess some will understand what I mean... I was reacting myself, one of them. Even when I could see all (well most, well just some) of the solutions to a problem, I usually went with the easier, more accepted ones. The common ones. ChoiceMaybe I was not as free as I though I was. Maybe as the big machine has ways of controlling people (shock therapy, or Goth starters kit), it also had ways to control me and my way of thinking. What can one man do? A jihad anti-robot crusade? Useless. Everybody studies at least once in their life, finds a companion, has children or a pet. You do that or you don't. We know what people usually do though. There’s certainly options, but is there freedom? How can call a decision choosing between black and white? RewindCan’t find the way to express this syndrome? What I am trying to say is that those I thought were robots are just limited by education/rules/parameters. I don’t even know what to call them now. Maybe it is more than one thing. Maybe behind those locks in their minds, there’s something special hiding, trying to find moments or words to express itself. I heard some mumbling and I found myself nodding still as my friend entered the room again. I told him I had to go home and rounded up my list of thoughts on the way home while listening to some music. The question itself I guess it would be: "is anybody out there?" Did you realized that maybe there’s a lot more of yourself than you really show. And I don't mean private thoughts, maybe things you want to share but you don’t find a moment or words to do it? Think, then post, thanks. ALT + S!
sounds like teenage angst.
you will grow out of it and learn to accept life as what it is.
and make the most of it.
or you can handle it the emo way.
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I pretty much completely agree with rhcp's post, and I have nothing real to add to this.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://foros.3dgames.com.ar/images/smilies/cat.gif)
![[image loading]](http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/3489/brickwallvs2.jpg)
