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KovacsFlorian
204 Posts
On December 07 2006 02:34 Dendra wrote: i'd throw the knife at him-if i miss i'd run around until i manouver him so i can pick up the knife,then run some more and throw the knife again-and so on :D what if he picks the knife after your first failed attempt ? gg no re | ||
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KovacsFlorian
204 Posts
How many of you used a bat before to hit something and how many of you used a knife to stab something? The guy with the knife would hesitate to rush with an all-in forward move against the guy that swings the bat. The guy with the bat doesn't need precision. He'll just hit in a general area, starting from knees, up to the head. The blow is circular; if it's in range, it will not miss. The guy with the knife can not go for the head or hands because they are too fast moving targets. It will go for the torso. But to get in range, he needs to avoid the bat swing. And as I said, the determined bat swing has very high changes of sucess. Any serious fight has an very important emotional part. The system is full of adrenaline. A full bat swing is like a discharge of anger. Hit like a train whatever mother fucker it is in front of you! The guy with the knife must control he's anger to get in range without being hit. And control is hard to achieve of you are not trained in fighting. When you are angry and full of adrenaline, there is no room for logical thoughts, reason. You won't even see the bat coming. It will smash you like a potato. In a real fight, if you have no training, you'll never get the counter timming right. Timming is the most hard thing to achieve. You can train your strength, execution... But you'll get the timming right, only after alot of training. The bat guy doesn't need timming. The knife guy does. We are talking here about 0.2 / 0.3 seconds timing. | ||
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MaGnIfIcA
Norway2312 Posts
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EarthServant
United States106 Posts
There are only a few kill shots with a knife, and all are pathetically hard to hit on an unweakened opponent. Those are in the middle of the lower back (talking about the kidney area, or the liver) and both are difficult to hit if the person faces towards you and knows the most basic defensive manuevering (keeping distance, especially when the opponent has a deadly weapon), the neck (same concept), the blood supply running through the groin, the chest between the ribs for a hit on the heart (impossible unless extremely well trained, and even then very difficult). The general rule in the fight with the knife would require the knife to be held knife blade pointing down in the leading (jab) hand. This enables you to use the knife for quick blocks while moving backwards that will slash at the opponents hands and/or forearms. This also allows you to punch and fight as you would regularly. Against the bat, there are a few problems, however. The bat will never be an instant kill weapon. First off, if you see your opponent, with both hands on the end of the bat, about to swing, you simply rush right into your opponent, and you can immediately jab the knife into the gut, fight over (this is because a swing takes a very long time, in real world fighting, you don't want to be running around trying to 'dodge' the bat). If, however, you hold the bat around it's center, you are enabled to punch, kick, or otherwise fight without having to have the bat in both hands. In addition, the extremely hard end of the bat can be used to parry your opponent, and can also be used to hit your opponent as if with a very hard fist with about one foot of extra range. A few jabs to the lead shoulder could do as much as breaking the clavicle or dislocating the shoulder, and at a minimum will slow down the opponents jabbing hand. It could even force them to use the opposite hand as their jab hand in the worst case. A jab to the face could quickly break the jaw, and I have heard that is among the most painful experiences. Also, it could break the skin above the eye, resulting in bleeding into the face. Trust me, this is 'fight over'. The major downside to this style is that the jab hand is slowed somewhat. Another, different but perhaps less effective option is bat in back hand, because it only allows you to attack with the bat after you have the opponent off balance. This is difficult. So, from my perspective, it is a matter of how you want to fight. Slow and methodical, or hope for mistake and quick kill. The knife fighter is waiting for an error, and the bat fighter is attacking with a number of jabs every minute trying to reduce the fighting capabilities of the opponent. From that perspective, I believe the bat fighter will win. It is harder to defend than to attack. | ||
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Chobo.Ov
62 Posts
BATS FTW!!!! | ||
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oddeye
Canada716 Posts
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TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
Also earthservant possibly put it very nice but i dont know if he really knows what he is talking about or if is just making shit up cause that bat technique seemed really weird but might be true. if that would be the case then maybe id vouch for the bat instead ;O But ill never settle for it! | ||
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Sadist
United States7225 Posts
and if the bat is on the defense its over, by attacking them you could potentially get stabbed, although i still feel you would win, but on the defense the knife person cant do a damn thing | ||
Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
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Sadist
United States7225 Posts
On December 07 2006 11:01 Klogon wrote: The batters KNOW the pitch is coming. This is why it is illegal in baseball for the pitcher to "fake" a pitch by not throwing the ball -- it would give the pitcher more advantage than he already has. Thus "fakes" of attacking WOULD slow down a batter somewhat as he can't keep swinging recklessly and that extra .6 seconds added for decision making of "is this for real?" could make the difference. Plus, those are major league batters. tthem being major league batters has to do with their ability to see the pitch and hand eye coordination along with power. They see pitches better than other people honestly from experience and such, reaction is part of it, but honestly if you are going by reaction in baseball you will be a horrible hitter. And ya you are right they cant stop becuase theyd balk the batter. Anyway, you can swing a bat in less than a second and a person is way bigger than a baseball so i dont see what your point is. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
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exalted
United States3612 Posts
The thread involves someone who doesn't have a lot of fighting experience: I believe at the higher echelons of skill, knife gains more and more advantage - this isn't really what the thread is about. I doubt few, if any here, have significant training (especially in the BvK matchup) fighting-wise, and so the decision is really the item that YOU would choose. I am a knifeman, but I must say there is one big hole in the arguments of a lot of pro-knifers: you cannot "sacrifice your arm" to deliver a winning blow to the head with a knife. I must agree with most of the pro-batters here in that you will reel backwards from simply the force of the blow and the sheer pain, and the batter will be quick to follow up with further blows leading to death. Therefore most of the knife 'theorycutting' should revolve around getting into critical hit range / forcing the batter to only be able to deliver half-hits (that aren't bone snapping) | ||
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shinigami
Canada423 Posts
The knife is a sword type weapon, and can deal large DPS with a chance to "open wounds"**. Unless the bat user has a viable stunlock build, he will die fast from the "open wounds" modifier on the knife. However, the bat suffers a penalty "To Hit" of 30% because it can be grabbed on to. Through these calculations, the bat user is at a disadvantage. His build is more of a tanker and is better used in PVE, rather than PVP. *This modifier stuns the target for 2 seconds, and has a 24% chance to activate on strike***. **This modifier lowers enemy HP by 2% every 3 seconds for a maximum of 30 seconds with a 95% chance to activate on hit****. ***Strike means simply by attacking. ****Hit means to actually land a blow. | ||
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ToT)Testie(
Canada723 Posts
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
The real debate here is whether the power delivered by the bat will be quick and power enough to get the knife before the knife get into too close. And personally, I disagree with exalted when he says higher skill = better for knife... I think with higher skill, the bat's range advantage is amplified. | ||
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TreK
Sweden2089 Posts
On December 07 2006 11:11 exalted wrote: To add a few thoughts to the thread: The thread involves someone who doesn't have a lot of fighting experience: I believe at the higher echelons of skill, knife gains more and more advantage - this isn't really what the thread is about. I doubt few, if any here, have significant training (especially in the BvK matchup) fighting-wise, and so the decision is really the item that YOU would choose. I am a knifeman, but I must say there is one big hole in the arguments of a lot of pro-knifers: you cannot "sacrifice your arm" to deliver a winning blow to the head with a knife. I must agree with most of the pro-batters here in that you will reel backwards from simply the force of the blow and the sheer pain, and the batter will be quick to follow up with further blows leading to death. Therefore most of the knife 'theorycutting' should revolve around getting into critical hit range / forcing the batter to only be able to deliver half-hits (that aren't bone snapping) That totally depends on how big of a swing you allow the batter to make, bigger/harder swing = easier to dodge and the closer you get before you get hit by the bat the less damage it will do and the less time he will have to adept to the recoil it has. I dont know if you will "fall over from pain and force" from a batblow to your forearm/shoulder or whatever, since i havent experienced anything near that myself so argueing over that would be impossible unless someone has had experience with it | ||
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Sadist
United States7225 Posts
On December 07 2006 11:14 ToT)Testie( wrote: None of us here can swing a bat half as fast as a major leaguer. ? uh.... half? You are out of your mind, ibet youve never even picked up a baseball bat before if you say that | ||
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Sadist
United States7225 Posts
that is a slow motion of a batting swing, notice theres very little cranking up, and you arent going to dodge a baseball bat im sorry, youd have to jump back to dodge or something, but you sure as fuck wont duck and dodge. heres another one in real time http://www.youtube.com/v/U_22xnqv00c http://www.youtube.com/v/eE5t8_1LcxM which looks like a horrible girly swing to me, then maybe you have a case. But if anyoen with any power at all swings a bat at you, you will die. edit: why are the imbedded videos not working? | ||
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Klogon
MURICA15980 Posts
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Sun
United States551 Posts
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