I saw this posted on another forum, started discussing with friends, and wanted to post it here to see TL's thoughts:
The conditions are as follows:
-Both fighters have the same body type, same skill set, nobody has a clear advantage over the other. -You cannot use any outside weapons, bite, or do anything other than use the weapons you have. -You can use the weapons in any way you'd like. -It is a fight to the death.
Now which weapon would you take: A single butterfly knife
or a standard Louisville slugger.
Each weapon is to be used against the other weapon.
I think the bat would win. A blow to the forearm would send that knife straight out of his hand. Unless the guys have some crazy martial arts training which allows them to parry the bat somehow... even then, would it be enough?
Well considering they both are mirror images against one another the person holding the bat would win because the bat > the knife easily due to its size. None of this fancy martial arts stuff would prevail because they both are equally matched concerning fighting abilities. It basically comes down to Bat > Knife or Knife > Bat
Most real figths end up with the persons rushing in fast and grappeling it out. The bat is useless in such a situation, while the butterfly is the perfect weapon. The guy with the bat needs to take out the knife in one hit. That's hard since you need to actually swing the bat and get a clean hit at someplace where it matters. You could break his other arm and it's not sure that it would stop him. So if the knife guy can dodge the first hit or make it glances he runs up, hugs the other guy and stabs in him the stomach untill he dies.
On November 26 2006 09:50 exalted wrote: Assume two regular people (imagine you were in the situation, which would YOU choose)
The "knife being thrown = gg" argument therefore doesn't apply.
Oh yeah, bat for sure. You'd have your fucking skull bashed in unless you throw your arm in the way, in which case your shit will be ruined quickly for you have no arms...
On November 26 2006 09:53 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Most real figths end up with the persons rushing in fast and grappeling it out. The bat is useless in such a situation, while the butterfly is the perfect weapon. The guy with the bat needs to take out the knife in one hit. That's hard since you need to actually swing the bat and get a clean hit at someplace where it matters. You could break his other arm and it's not sure that it would stop him. So if the knife guy can dodge the first hit or make it glances he runs up, hugs the other guy and stabs in him the stomach untill he dies.
he just said they have equal skill.. u're just saying the knife guy's faster than the bat guy and can dodge him better, wtf o.O
the bat would be too slow unless the guy's prepared in a batter's ready stance (or too weak if he tries to jab with it or just swing it back and forth or something).
so assume batter's stance. if batman's right handed then his left shoulder will be facing forwards.
the knife guy knows which way the bat would be coming from. knife guy could lunge in and stab around the back, or back of neck with his right hand, possibly having to block with his left arm (and having it broken or something), but then it'd be gg
On November 26 2006 09:57 Polemarch wrote: hmm... i think the knife would win...
the bat would be too slow unless the guy's prepared in a batter's ready stance (or too weak if he tries to jab with it or just swing it back and forth or something).
so assume batter's stance. if batman's right handed then his left shoulder will be facing forwards.
the knife guy knows which way the bat would be coming from. knife guy could lunge in and stab around the back, or back of neck with his right hand, possibly having to block with his left arm (and having it broken or something), but then it'd be gg
but maybe in mid lunge the bat would've knocked the brains out of the lunging small knife guy already ;O!!!
On November 26 2006 09:53 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Most real figths end up with the persons rushing in fast and grappeling it out. The bat is useless in such a situation, while the butterfly is the perfect weapon. The guy with the bat needs to take out the knife in one hit. That's hard since you need to actually swing the bat and get a clean hit at someplace where it matters. You could break his other arm and it's not sure that it would stop him. So if the knife guy can dodge the first hit or make it glances he runs up, hugs the other guy and stabs in him the stomach untill he dies.
he just said they have equal skill.. u're just saying the knife guy's faster than the bat guy and can dodge him better, wtf o.O
even if they have equal skill, the knife guy will be relatively faster, cuz the bat is heavier and needs more commitment to an attack than the knife.
On November 26 2006 09:53 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Most real figths end up with the persons rushing in fast and grappeling it out. The bat is useless in such a situation, while the butterfly is the perfect weapon. The guy with the bat needs to take out the knife in one hit. That's hard since you need to actually swing the bat and get a clean hit at someplace where it matters. You could break his other arm and it's not sure that it would stop him. So if the knife guy can dodge the first hit or make it glances he runs up, hugs the other guy and stabs in him the stomach untill he dies.
he just said they have equal skill.. u're just saying the knife guy's faster than the bat guy and can dodge him better, wtf o.O
even if they have equal skill, the knife guy will be relatively faster, cuz the bat is heavier and needs more commitment to an attack than the knife.
lets assume a normal person can do 20 push-ups :op
On November 26 2006 09:58 alffla wrote: but maybe in mid lunge the bat would've knocked the brains out of the lunging small knife guy already ;O!!!
i think it depends on how good both people are.
if they're both tough enough to be willing to take a hit and do some quick moves i think the knife guy would win. i think that's not asking too much of average people
if it's a noob game though, the knife guy would piss his pants and just run cuz he doesn't want to get hurt
On November 26 2006 09:57 Polemarch wrote: hmm... i think the knife would win...
the bat would be too slow unless the guy's prepared in a batter's ready stance (or too weak if he tries to jab with it or just swing it back and forth or something).
so assume batter's stance. if batman's right handed then his left shoulder will be facing forwards.
the knife guy knows which way the bat would be coming from. knife guy could lunge in and stab around the back, or back of neck with his right hand, possibly having to block with his left arm (and having it broken or something), but then it'd be gg
but maybe in mid lunge the bat would've knocked the brains out of the lunging small knife guy already ;O!!!
On November 26 2006 10:04 BlackJack wrote: very important detail being left out is where the fight will be taking place and how much space the fighers have. W
Assume a basketball-court, all outside entrances sealed for the fight.
On November 26 2006 10:04 BlackJack wrote: very important detail being left out is where the fight will be taking place and how much space the fighers have. W
i think there are just too many factors to take into consideration and the scenario needs to be more specific in general
On November 26 2006 09:53 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Most real figths end up with the persons rushing in fast and grappeling it out. The bat is useless in such a situation, while the butterfly is the perfect weapon. The guy with the bat needs to take out the knife in one hit. That's hard since you need to actually swing the bat and get a clean hit at someplace where it matters. You could break his other arm and it's not sure that it would stop him. So if the knife guy can dodge the first hit or make it glances he runs up, hugs the other guy and stabs in him the stomach untill he dies.
he just said they have equal skill.. u're just saying the knife guy's faster than the bat guy and can dodge him better, wtf o.O
even if they have equal skill, the knife guy will be relatively faster, cuz the bat is heavier and needs more commitment to an attack than the knife.
lets assume a normal person can do 20 push-ups :op
well in order for batman to knock knife guy's skull out or whatever, he's gonna have to do a huge swing. otherwise knife guy can just take the pussy hit and start stabbing.
On November 26 2006 10:08 lawl mart v2.0 wrote: well if it was an open area i would go with the knife, because you run faster with a knife and you can get away ;;
all exits sealed, you'd just tire yourself out to a steady pursuit.
On November 26 2006 09:53 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: Most real figths end up with the persons rushing in fast and grappeling it out. The bat is useless in such a situation, while the butterfly is the perfect weapon. The guy with the bat needs to take out the knife in one hit. That's hard since you need to actually swing the bat and get a clean hit at someplace where it matters. You could break his other arm and it's not sure that it would stop him. So if the knife guy can dodge the first hit or make it glances he runs up, hugs the other guy and stabs in him the stomach untill he dies.
he just said they have equal skill.. u're just saying the knife guy's faster than the bat guy and can dodge him better, wtf o.O
No I didn't. I said that it takes longer to use the bat efficently. It's almost impossible to dodge a butterfly in melee so it doesn't matter much, it's a much faster weapon. Furthermore while the bat has range you need a good swing to transmit power efficently so you can't move around as much because that leaves you open. The knife will be on the offensive jumping back and forth and probing for a weakness, the bat needs to be lined up to get 1 good shot in before the knife guy closes. Since getting such a hit is hard for a normal person I'm with the guy who has the knife. If both were perfect it would be no contest because whoever hits first wins in such a situation, but they aren't.
On November 26 2006 10:08 lawl mart v2.0 wrote: well if it was an open area i would go with the knife, because you run faster with a knife and you can get away ;D
haha, if this was a CS forum they'd be saying the other guy could just switch weapons to knife to match your speed
who cares if the knife guy is faster, he can just jump around like a monkey and tire himself out while the bat guy just leans on the basketball pole and swings at him to make him back away, lOl
YOu can take 1 bat swing, you can't take one knife stab. Plus as soon as the knife guy closes to the 1 ft distance the bat is ineffective. (imagine trying to hit someone with a bat that is right up against you, you can't get a good hit).
I have knife, I try to bait him into swinging. Once he swings I jump in and stabb him and take his weak ass off balance arms in wrong position swing.
Alternatively if I can't get him to swing I jump in, put up my left arm to take his bat swing while I stabb him in the belly with my right arm.
My left arm breaks, and I crawl away while he bleeds out and dies
On November 26 2006 10:22 pooper-scooper wrote: Knife > bat.
YOu can take 1 bat swing, you can't take one knife stab. Plus as soon as the knife guy closes to the 1 ft distance the bat is ineffective.
I have knife, I try to bait him into swining. Once he swings I jump in and stabb him and take his weak ass off balance arms in wrong position swing.
Alternatively if I can't get him to swing I jump in, put up my left arm to take his bat swing while I stabb him in the belly with my right arm.
My left arm breaks, and I crawl away while he bleeds out and dies
woot, nice.
i figure most knife guys could get in range without taking a really hard hit anyway. if batman doesn't swing early... get in really quick towards batman's back where the swing would be weaker and start knifing.
Range is always the most important aspect in a fight with weapons. For instance, bow staff > katana blade. He's only gonna swing when it's a guaranteed hit, which it will surely be at any point in time the knifer is within 5 feet of him. He'll just wear him down with repeated blows before going in for the final strike. Plus a bat does a lot more damage per capita than a knife. You can get stabbed almost anywhere with a knife and walk away from it. One hit with a bat anywhere on your body and something is breaking. People cant attack very well with a broken spine/leg/ribcage/arm/skull.
On November 26 2006 10:22 pooper-scooper wrote: Knife > bat.
YOu can take 1 bat swing, you can't take one knife stab. Plus as soon as the knife guy closes to the 1 ft distance the bat is ineffective.
I have knife, I try to bait him into swining. Once he swings I jump in and stabb him and take his weak ass off balance arms in wrong position swing.
Alternatively if I can't get him to swing I jump in, put up my left arm to take his bat swing while I stabb him in the belly with my right arm.
My left arm breaks, and I crawl away while he bleeds out and dies
woot, nice.
i figure most knife guys could get in range without taking a really hard hit anyway. if batman doesn't swing early... get in really quick towards batman's back where the swing would be weaker and start knifing.
how about the bat guy can run away just as well as you can 'jump in and stab his stomach then wait for him to bleed and die'
then you tell me how the hell in the world the guy with the butterfly knife is going to get first hit?
what kind of pussies are holding these sluggers, if its too heavy then why isnt it baby tyke bat vs butter knife
sword is WAY better than a bat. you don't have to wind up nearly as much as a bat to do enough damage (so it's effectively faster), and you can stab.
sword is a one-shot gg weapon, whereas a bat is not
like i said, what kind of panzy is holding this bat if its too heavy and slow for him, weight is hardly the factor in consideration
its about length as mentioned earlier, that's my main point, you gona get ur brain wacked or arm wacked, and not like the bat guy is just going to stand there and not try to dodge all the lame ass jab attempts, and when you get hit first how fast are you going to recover to lunge at him with your small little knife? once he does the damage he's already got the upper hand and can defend either by dodging/running etc,
there is no instant counter attack like playing street fighter on your playstation
On November 26 2006 10:30 alffla wrote: how about the bat guy can run away just as well as you can 'jump in and stab his stomach then wait for him to bleed and die'
fair enough, the batman could run away, that's probably the smartest thing for him to do.
but if he's running away, he's unable to swing his bat well... so he's just running away.
On November 26 2006 10:35 lil.sis wrote: yeah it takes a lot of momentum to get the bat going
plus it would be relatively easy for the knife guy to stay out of range until the bat guy takes a missed swing
i say knife
if you want to stay out of range you might as well take a nap on the court, and he's not going to swing if you're out of range, and if you dodge you gona get tired also
ppl who said the baseball bat wins are stupid. real fights don't look like boxing or martial arts. it's infight all the way. the only way you can avoid an infight is by running away. if the bat-guy is lucky he hits the other guy but who cares? the knife will still find its way.
? towheover said you can take a blow from a bat but not a stab from a knife
You can kill people with 1 blow from a bat, people dont die immediately from stab wounds unless its in their neck or something
Someone with a knife would get fucked up, people are acting like a baseball bat is retardedly heavy or something, it at most weighs a few 2-4 lbs and the person would be ruined if they got hit once
On November 26 2006 10:39 Asta wrote: ppl who said the baseball bat wins are stupid. real fights don't look like boxing or martial arts. it's infight all the way. the only way you can avoid an infight is by running away. if the bat-guy is lucky he hits the other guy but who cares? the knife will still find its way.
ya, sure doesnt matter, who cares if you get whacked in the head with a louisville slugger, i m sure the knife will find its way
On November 26 2006 10:42 Cloud wrote: If the guy with the bat doesnt knock out the knife guy in the first 2-3 blows, hes as good as dead.
People dont recover from blows with a bat, if you get hit with a bat you will be on the ground unless the guy swinging it is a pussy
it doexnt matter where they hit you really, unless it was in your arm which in that case that arm would probably be broken and goopd luck trying to grab a bat full swing from someone with 1 arm and stab with the other, its just not happening
On November 26 2006 10:37 Way wrote: like i said, what kind of panzy is holding this bat if its too heavy and slow for him, weight is hardly the factor in consideration
its about length as mentioned earlier, that's my main point, you gona get ur brain wacked or arm wacked, and not like the bat guy is just going to stand there and not try to dodge all the lame ass jab attempts, and when you get hit first how fast are you going to recover to lunge at him with your small little knife? once he does the damage he's already got the upper hand and can defend either by dodging/running etc,
there is no instant counter attack like playing street fighter on your playstation
it's not that the bat guy is unable to carry the bat, geez. it's that he has to wind up and swing it with lots of momentum. that's what makes it slower.
bringing swords and bows into this question is like talking about a blessed +3 quarterstaff... pointless.
As I have some experience with weapon assessment. The knife guy would definately win.
Why? The bat guy can't make a full swing cause if he does it takes him way to long to recover from the swing. At best he can get one big hit in and then get stabbed about 10 times in rapid succession which will be fatal.
Long story short and I cba to totally analyse this cause its a shit thread to get started with. Unless the guy with the bat takes the guy with the knife out in one hit (which he should get due to reach), which seems *very* unlikely he's pretty much done for. You're prolly better off with some martial skill with your bare hands against a knife then with a heavy bat.
On November 26 2006 10:22 pooper-scooper wrote: Knife > bat.
YOu can take 1 bat swing, you can't take one knife stab. Plus as soon as the knife guy closes to the 1 ft distance the bat is ineffective. (imagine trying to hit someone with a bat that is right up against you, you can't get a good hit).
I have knife, I try to bait him into swinging. Once he swings I jump in and stabb him and take his weak ass off balance arms in wrong position swing.
Alternatively if I can't get him to swing I jump in, put up my left arm to take his bat swing while I stabb him in the belly with my right arm.
My left arm breaks, and I crawl away while he bleeds out and dies
On November 26 2006 10:37 Way wrote: like i said, what kind of panzy is holding this bat if its too heavy and slow for him, weight is hardly the factor in consideration
its about length as mentioned earlier, that's my main point, you gona get ur brain wacked or arm wacked, and not like the bat guy is just going to stand there and not try to dodge all the lame ass jab attempts, and when you get hit first how fast are you going to recover to lunge at him with your small little knife? once he does the damage he's already got the upper hand and can defend either by dodging/running etc,
there is no instant counter attack like playing street fighter on your playstation
it's not that the bat guy is unable to carry the bat, geez. it's that he has to wind up and swing it with lots of momentum. that's what makes it slower.
bringing swords and bows into this question is like talking about a blessed +3 quarterstaff... pointless.
you dont need to wind up and shit and you act like that takes more than a s plit second anyway, hes not there sitting on a pitch, hes trying to hit the person in the face.
On November 26 2006 10:37 Way wrote: like i said, what kind of panzy is holding this bat if its too heavy and slow for him, weight is hardly the factor in consideration
its about length as mentioned earlier, that's my main point, you gona get ur brain wacked or arm wacked, and not like the bat guy is just going to stand there and not try to dodge all the lame ass jab attempts, and when you get hit first how fast are you going to recover to lunge at him with your small little knife? once he does the damage he's already got the upper hand and can defend either by dodging/running etc,
there is no instant counter attack like playing street fighter on your playstation
it's not that the bat guy is unable to carry the bat, geez. it's that he has to wind up and swing it with lots of momentum. that's what makes it slower.
bringing swords and bows into this question is like talking about a blessed +3 quarterstaff... pointless.
same thing, its neglecting your stupid argument about momentum, because the same can be said for the sword, length is a greater factor than your momentum idea
you dont need to land a killing blow on your first strike you land a blow with the bat and already the knife guy is at a disadvantage and has to recover and try to aim and hit on target
On November 26 2006 10:42 Cloud wrote: If the guy with the bat doesnt knock out the knife guy in the first 2-3 blows, hes as good as dead.
People dont recover from blows with a bat, if you get hit with a bat you will be on the ground unless the guy swinging it is a pussy
it doexnt matter where they hit you really, unless it was in your arm which in that case that arm would probably be broken and goopd luck trying to grab a bat full swing from someone with 1 arm and stab with the other, its just not happening
A fight to the death, the guy with the knife is charging at the other guy with the most speed he can, the guy with the bat swings, the other blocks with his arm, or ducks if the swing is too high, the bat probably breaks the arm, but the speed alone the other guy had will be enough to thrust the unblockable knife into him.
Now, how difficult is it to swing hard enough to knock out the other guy while stabbed than it is to continuosly stab him with your other arm broken and probably sore on other parts of the body.
Now that i think about it, in those conditions if the bat guy doesnt knock out the knife guy in the first blow hes as good as dead.
take the bat, step away abit, crouch just a bit, and and when he tries to move go for the legs, lets see him try to dodge a baseball bat to the knees. And i dont think charging full speed would help, if you get smacked on your arm with a baseball bat full force i think ur just gonna go down, u cant *block with arm* ur acting like it doesent hurt or doesent knock you sideways
if you get hit with a bat you are going to be on the floor, a knife wouldnt do much for you while we are on the floor
If we are talking real life situations bat easily > knife, just askyourself personally if you would feel comfortable taking on someone with a knife whos weidling a baseball bat
On November 26 2006 10:52 Sadist wrote: if this is based on real life just ask yourself one question
Someone tries to rob a convenience store with a butterfly knife, a man pulls out a baseball bat from behind the counter, who runs away?
thats right, good ol american baseball > that piece of shit butterfly knife
Erm no, i dont think so.
Since youre just giving stupid examples how about this one:
You, unarmed, with no training at all and whatever, would prefer fighting a guy with a knife, in which a single injury could mean death, or a guy with a bat when broken bones can be mended.
And a knife wouldnt do much for you when you are on the floor?
Wtf you dont need basically any strenght to thrust a knife into someones flesh, its the bat that is useless once you get stabbed.
On November 26 2006 10:37 Way wrote: like i said, what kind of panzy is holding this bat if its too heavy and slow for him, weight is hardly the factor in consideration
its about length as mentioned earlier, that's my main point, you gona get ur brain wacked or arm wacked, and not like the bat guy is just going to stand there and not try to dodge all the lame ass jab attempts, and when you get hit first how fast are you going to recover to lunge at him with your small little knife? once he does the damage he's already got the upper hand and can defend either by dodging/running etc,
there is no instant counter attack like playing street fighter on your playstation
it's not that the bat guy is unable to carry the bat, geez. it's that he has to wind up and swing it with lots of momentum. that's what makes it slower.
bringing swords and bows into this question is like talking about a blessed +3 quarterstaff... pointless.
same thing, its neglecting your stupid argument about momentum, because the same can be said for the sword, length is a greater factor than your momentum idea
you dont need to land a killing blow on your first strike you land a blow with the bat and already the knife guy is at a disadvantage and has to recover and try to aim and hit on target
you do need a first killing blow with the bat, or you're dead. nyovne and cloud have said it better than i did.
knife could go to the organs to kill, if gets ur leg or arm its just a wound, a broken skull means death too, and a bat to the kidneys, stomac, liver, or other organs coudl proly kill too
Sadist that example isn't exactly relevant because the robber isn't looking to kill the convenience store clerk (and therefore face murder charges), he's just looking for an easy victim - him wielding the knife 90% is just posturing and a bluff (so if the convenience store clerk raises him with the intention of going to a fight, he'll most likely back down)
This is a fight to the death, where one of them will die. There is definitely a psychological edge for the person with the bat, because most people don't really have a hard time hitting hard with the bat, while with the knife most people would be more "hesitant" to use it in a deadly life-killing way.
On November 26 2006 10:52 Sadist wrote: if this is based on real life just ask yourself one question
Someone tries to rob a convenience store with a butterfly knife, a man pulls out a baseball bat from behind the counter, who runs away?
thats right, good ol american baseball > that piece of shit butterfly knife
Erm no, i dont think so.
Since youre just giving stupid examples how about this one:
You, unarmed, with no training at all and whatever, would prefer fighting a guy with a knife, in which a single injury could mean death, or a guy with a bat when broken bones can be mended.
And a knife wouldnt do much for you when you are on the floor?
Wtf you dont need basically any strenght to thrust a knife into someones flesh, its the bat that is useless once you get stabbed.
people recover from stab wounds
people have brain damage from baseball bat shot to the head
both are deadly, but if i was worknig at a store and someone tried to rob me with a knife and i had a baseball bat you better believe theyd run away or get knocke dthe fuck out
and if you get hit with a baseball bat full force at all believe me you will be on the ground i dont care how strong you are or think you are, an average person(if this is what we are discussing) would get completely destroyed if they tried to use a knife against a bat, they are ninjas or something. And if you are going to block my bat with yoru arm, i will dodge your knife with my body, and pull my bat back and beat your ass. Go ahead, throw your knife, ill knock it straight back into your face barry bonds style
On November 26 2006 10:53 Sadist wrote: if you get hit with a bat you are going to be on the floor, a knife wouldnt do much for you while we are on the floor
If we are talking real life situations bat easily > knife, just askyourself personally if you would feel comfortable taking on someone with a knife whos weidling a baseball bat
i wouldn't feel comfortable with it because i don't want to kill anyone, and i know there's a good chance of me taking a hit and getting an arm broken or something. but if i'm determined to kill you with the knife, i know i could do it.
On November 26 2006 10:53 Sadist wrote: if you get hit with a bat you are going to be on the floor, a knife wouldnt do much for you while we are on the floor
If we are talking real life situations bat easily > knife, just askyourself personally if you would feel comfortable taking on someone with a knife whos weidling a baseball bat
i wouldn't feel comfortable with it because i don't want to kill anyone, and i know there's a good chance of me taking a hit and getting an arm broken or something. but if i'm determined to kill you with the knife, i know i could do it.
YAAAAAA RIGHT
youd have to sneak up on me or something, because if i see you coming with a bat you are going to be crippled for the rest of your life if you lunge at me with a knife
The biggest misconception in this thread is that people think you can take a full force shot from a baseball bat and not be staggered in the least bit and continue what you are doing, if you get hit full force you will be on the ground and thats all there is to it honestly. If you get hit in the arm you will still fall over, people dont chop with bats, if you block with your arm it would still hit you in the head from the force if you tried to block high, and if you blocked your midscection youd get hit in your ribs and immediately collapse to the ground
On November 26 2006 10:52 Sadist wrote: if this is based on real life just ask yourself one question
Someone tries to rob a convenience store with a butterfly knife, a man pulls out a baseball bat from behind the counter, who runs away?
thats right, good ol american baseball > that piece of shit butterfly knife
Erm no, i dont think so.
Since youre just giving stupid examples how about this one:
You, unarmed, with no training at all and whatever, would prefer fighting a guy with a knife, in which a single injury could mean death, or a guy with a bat when broken bones can be mended.
And a knife wouldnt do much for you when you are on the floor?
Wtf you dont need basically any strenght to thrust a knife into someones flesh, its the bat that is useless once you get stabbed.
people recover from stab wounds
people have brain damage from baseball bat shot to the head
both are deadly, but if i was worknig at a store and someone tried to rob me with a knife and i had a baseball bat you better believe theyd run away or get knocke dthe fuck out
People of equal strength wont do more than break the arms bones when swinging, and they wont be able to swing hard enough to stop the momentum from the guy with the knife who was just running with all his strenght.
And also, a stab is always more dangerous than a baseball bat blow.
Brain damage from getting a blow in the head, how about getting your brain stabbed, brain damage too?
for the knife to be used to its full potential the person has to have some kind of training, the bat does not, any retard can swing, its just about keeping distance, and you dont only have the bat, kicking is also a good way for keeping distance
On November 26 2006 10:52 Sadist wrote: if this is based on real life just ask yourself one question
Someone tries to rob a convenience store with a butterfly knife, a man pulls out a baseball bat from behind the counter, who runs away?
thats right, good ol american baseball > that piece of shit butterfly knife
Erm no, i dont think so.
Since youre just giving stupid examples how about this one:
You, unarmed, with no training at all and whatever, would prefer fighting a guy with a knife, in which a single injury could mean death, or a guy with a bat when broken bones can be mended.
And a knife wouldnt do much for you when you are on the floor?
Wtf you dont need basically any strenght to thrust a knife into someones flesh, its the bat that is useless once you get stabbed.
people recover from stab wounds
people have brain damage from baseball bat shot to the head
both are deadly, but if i was worknig at a store and someone tried to rob me with a knife and i had a baseball bat you better believe theyd run away or get knocke dthe fuck out
People of equal strength wont do more than break the arms bones when swinging, and they wont be able to swing hard enough to stop the momentum from the guy with the knife who was just running with all his strenght.
And also, a stab is always more dangerous than a baseball bat blow.
Brain damage from getting a blow in the head, how about getting your brain stabbed, brain damage too?
if you charge at someone with a knife you will get hit in the face by the bat and be out cold, you cant block that sorry and odds are the persons knife would not pierce a persons skull so you better aim for something else.
People here arent thinking logically at all and have seen one too many bruce lee movies
the knife person has to know some vital points to stab for maximum efficiency, a stab is not a killing blow just like that, you could take it in the torso and still it does not mean a organ would be hit, the bat doesent search organs, but bones, and bones are everywhere ^^
On November 26 2006 10:52 Sadist wrote: if this is based on real life just ask yourself one question
Someone tries to rob a convenience store with a butterfly knife, a man pulls out a baseball bat from behind the counter, who runs away?
thats right, good ol american baseball > that piece of shit butterfly knife
Erm no, i dont think so.
Since youre just giving stupid examples how about this one:
You, unarmed, with no training at all and whatever, would prefer fighting a guy with a knife, in which a single injury could mean death, or a guy with a bat when broken bones can be mended.
And a knife wouldnt do much for you when you are on the floor?
Wtf you dont need basically any strenght to thrust a knife into someones flesh, its the bat that is useless once you get stabbed.
people recover from stab wounds
people have brain damage from baseball bat shot to the head
both are deadly, but if i was worknig at a store and someone tried to rob me with a knife and i had a baseball bat you better believe theyd run away or get knocke dthe fuck out
People of equal strength wont do more than break the arms bones when swinging, and they wont be able to swing hard enough to stop the momentum from the guy with the knife who was just running with all his strenght.
And also, a stab is always more dangerous than a baseball bat blow.
Brain damage from getting a blow in the head, how about getting your brain stabbed, brain damage too?
if you charge at someone with a knife you will get hit in the face by the bat and be out cold, you cant block that sorry and odds are the persons knife would not pierce a persons skull so you better aim for something else.
People here arent thinking logically at all and have seen one too many bruce lee movies
Its not like its impossible to duck from a swing to the head.
On November 26 2006 11:07 Cloud wrote: Its not like its impossible to duck from a swing to the head.
while lunging?
Just ask yourself about this, no one in their right mind would even try to attack someone with a knife when the other person has a bat unless they were a trained fighter. Youve got to be retarded to be the average person and even try that
wait, how are you supose to grab the bat, the bat guy stands about 2 feet from you, if you try to come close who is to say he is going for the arms, head, or whatever, why not legs, groin, somekinda chep shot
On November 26 2006 11:13 BeSiGeR wrote: its not obvious, im telling you i would rather go for the knees, once u hit those its over anyway, and its easier to keep distance that way
and once they are on the ground its over
powerful post!
motherfuckers doing combat rolls and shit, the average person cant do that and you know it.
To get his knees you have to be very close to him, and even if you break them, its gonna be even harder to stop his momentum than if you hit him in the upper parts of his body.
u dont have to be any closer to hit the knees than the head, crouch a little, and it might be somewhat easy to duck , but i dont think u can jump fast enough, or high enough if the bat is going knee high or a bit above, and i think a starting distance would have to be defined too coz im thinking its like 4-5 feet apart, and not enough to charge and build up momentum, but dont know, nobody menitoned distance, but to be fair its gotta be more than 4 feet
Seriously, all this ninja shit about someone actually standing after a good bat blow and all this bullshit about a bat being hard to swing is ridiculous.
-A bat is not hard to swing if you can do a couple push-ups. -A blow from a bat hurts like a bitch, breaks bones and almost certainly destorys your balance. -Once off balance and in pain the person tries to continue 3 feet foward. Whats stopping the guy from then moving to the side or kicking the dumb bitch as he tumbles to the turf...
On November 26 2006 11:20 Wysp wrote: Seriously, all this ninja shit about someone actually standing after a good bat blow and all this bullshit about a bat being hard to swing is ridiculous.
-A bat is not hard to swing if you can do a couple push-ups. -A blow from a bat hurts like a bitch, breaks bones and almost certainly destorys your balance. -Once off balance and in pain the person tries to continue 3 feet foward. Whats stopping the guy from then moving to the side or kicking the dumb bitch as he tumbles to the turf...
The knife guy gets his shit ruined.
Balance doesnt count when you have your whole momentum on your side after running and you just have to point your knife towards the other guys chest and let momentum take care of the rest.
On November 26 2006 11:21 Cloud wrote: And also if the guy is lunging at you and then throws the knife, how the hell do you stop that.
I like my chances better when he throws the knife, as I know I cannot throw a knife properly to penetrate a person. The best scenario with a thrown knife is a slashing wound.
On November 26 2006 11:20 Wysp wrote: Seriously, all this ninja shit about someone actually standing after a good bat blow and all this bullshit about a bat being hard to swing is ridiculous.
-A bat is not hard to swing if you can do a couple push-ups. -A blow from a bat hurts like a bitch, breaks bones and almost certainly destorys your balance. -Once off balance and in pain the person tries to continue 3 feet foward. Whats stopping the guy from then moving to the side or kicking the dumb bitch as he tumbles to the turf...
The knife guy gets his shit ruined.
Balance doesnt count when you have your whole momentum on your side after running and you just have to point your knife towards the other guys chest and let momentum take care of the rest.
it counts because if you hit someone and they have momentum you can knock them off their line ala people who want to detonate a bomb on an asteroid causing it to go off its current line
[/QUOTE]Balance doesnt count when you have your whole momentum on your side after running and you just have to point your knife towards the other guys chest and let momentum take care of the rest.[/QUOTE]
well if the knife guy can duck from a head shot, i think bat guy could also sidestep, i mean its kinda stupid just standing while he is runing full speed at you, and we still have to define the starting positions
On November 26 2006 11:22 BeSiGeR wrote: not everyone knows how to throw a knife, and it could miss too
You dont need to know how to throw a knife, missing a throw when hes that close is retarded, just take a well balanced knife like that one, throw it against a wall or whatever, and you will see that its not so damn hard to throw a knife.
who is seriously suggesting that a knife > bat when both persons are of equal skill? who the hell charges against a bat with a knife even if the knife guy goes buck wild and charges in, it's not 100% that he would 1 hit kill the bat wielder.
On November 26 2006 11:21 Cloud wrote: And also if the guy is lunging at you and then throws the knife, how the hell do you stop that.
knock it into the cheap seats or into his eyeballs
Oh yeah, just like you are able to hit a baseball thrown at you with full strenght every single time, you will be able to hit a spinning knife just the same.
On November 26 2006 11:22 BeSiGeR wrote: not everyone knows how to throw a knife, and it could miss too
You dont need to know how to throw a knife, missing a throw when hes that close is retarded, just take a well balanced knife like that one, throw it against a wall or whatever, and you will see that its not so damn hard to throw a knife.
youd better make sure it lands in his throat or cuts a nerve or something otherwise you will be fucked
On November 26 2006 11:27 Spike wrote: who is seriously suggesting that a knife > bat when both persons are of equal skill? who the hell charges against a bat with a knife even if the knife guy goes buck wild and charges in, it's not 100% that he would 1 hit kill the bat wielder.
it's the other way around... the bat needs to one-hit kill
because otherwise once they get in close, the bat guy is DEAD.
if charging in with the knife isn't something most people wouldn't do, it's only because they're not imagining themselves in a fight to the death.
there are knives made for throwing, and for stabing, i dont think a buterfly is balanced enough for throwing, someone has one at home to try throwing it for results ??
On November 26 2006 11:27 Spike wrote: who is seriously suggesting that a knife > bat when both persons are of equal skill? who the hell charges against a bat with a knife even if the knife guy goes buck wild and charges in, it's not 100% that he would 1 hit kill the bat wielder.
it's the other way around... the bat needs to one-hit kill
because otherwise once they get in close, the bat guy is DEAD.
if charging in with the knife isn't something most people wouldn't do, it's only because they're not imagining themselves in a fight to the death.
we're talking about average people here, try reading the posts above you, and you dont need to oen hit kill, you will be staggered like a motherfucker if you get hit with a bat or you will get the wind knocked out of you OR you will get knocked down or knocked out or die.
If you are on the ground or staggered at all its over
On November 26 2006 11:27 Spike wrote: who is seriously suggesting that a knife > bat when both persons are of equal skill? who the hell charges against a bat with a knife even if the knife guy goes buck wild and charges in, it's not 100% that he would 1 hit kill the bat wielder.
it's the other way around... the bat needs to one-hit kill
because otherwise once they get in close, the bat guy is DEAD.
if charging in with the knife isn't something most people wouldn't do, it's only because they're not imagining themselves in a fight to the death.
a bat isn't a 1 hit kill weapon and doesn't need to be one either. depending on the persons strength, it can break bones, knock you back, stun, etc a good hit with a bit will leave the knife holder in disarray.
If they both knew how to fight the knife would win. It's a lot easier to into kill range with it than people think. Besides, the only thing that Bas Rutten fears in street fights are knives, so that's my choice
On November 26 2006 11:21 Polemarch wrote: how are people arguing for the bat imagining the guy with the bat holding it?
i'm picturing standing with it wound up like a baseball batter; and standing facing about 45 degrees towards the knife guy
Yup that seems to be what everyone is doing. As if the bat guy is just some retarded lug that can't move and only has one shot. He can side-step, back up, jab with the bat, swing with the bat, etc.
If you think you can just put your left arm up and charge him, the bat guy will simply switch hands with the bad and smash your face in with a left-handed swing. Even if he is not left-handed, it doesn't take much force to break a face with a baseball bat.
if the bat guy doesnt kill on the first blow he's dead - stupid ass remark, not even going to comment on this
knife wound > bat hit - depends where, whats with all you people that play too much video games or read up on all this ninja shit, you guys are making it sound like if you get stabbed once with a knife you're as good as dead. It can hurt like a bitch but the stun a bat will give you I guarantee is more than enough, that and I think its a given the bat wielder will get the first shot at you. If you stab my arm and i whack your stupid ass head with a bat, what are you going to be doing?
If you want to talk about all this charge to the death shit, if you charge at someone like a dumbmotherfuk, how difficult you think it will be to dodge your stupid ass attack and whack you to death at the same time
On November 26 2006 11:21 Polemarch wrote: how are people arguing for the bat imagining the guy with the bat holding it?
i'm picturing standing with it wound up like a baseball batter; and standing facing about 45 degrees towards the knife guy
Yup that seems to be what everyone is doing. As if the bat guy is just some retarded lug that can't move and only has one shot. He can side-step, back up, jab with the bat, swing with the bat, etc.
If you think you can just put your left arm up and charge him, the bat guy will simply switch hands with the bad and smash your face in with a left-handed swing. Even if he is not left-handed, it doesn't take much force to break a face with a baseball bat.
wound up like a batter? you watch too much ESPN or something, any non scrawny guy can hold a bat with 1 hand or any stance he chooses
if you want to argue stupidly like this, i ll degrade to your level
weee, i ll be creative, i picture your butterfly knife guy set up wearing an apron and holding a cutting board doing cooking in the kitchen like a live at home mommy
edit: just adding on to what blackjack is saying, but he got it covered good already
Well, given regular people, its most likely will depend on luck. Whoever defends has the advantage. If you attack with your bat and miss youre wide open. If you attack with your bat and hit him, in a place or a manner that doesnt impair him much, youre wide open. If you attack him with a knife youll most likely get your hands broken.
An even ended stick would be so much more usefull in a situation like this. Bat is a one hit weapon, because if this hit goes wrong, you need time to recover from swing, and get it back in a swing position. And to whoever said one knife would doesnt kill you, well, youre wrong. If the knifer got close enough to stab you, why should he go back? He got close, you cant swing, youre dead.
On November 26 2006 11:22 BeSiGeR wrote: not everyone knows how to throw a knife, and it could miss too
You dont need to know how to throw a knife, missing a throw when hes that close is retarded, just take a well balanced knife like that one, throw it against a wall or whatever, and you will see that its not so damn hard to throw a knife.
youd better make sure it lands in his throat or cuts a nerve or something otherwise you will be fucked
Lands on the throat? Cuts a nerve? This isnt a fucking sharpened pencil dude, any area near the chest where a knife hits you is mortal.
And once your knife lands on him, your fists and feet will prove much stronger than a stabbed guy with a bat
weee, i ll be creative, i picture your butterfly knife guy set up wearing an apron and holding a cutting board doing cooking in the kitchen like a live at home mommy
Yeah, cos thats what butterfly knives are usually used for. =/
On November 26 2006 11:42 Way wrote: if the bat guy doesnt kill on the first blow he's dead - stupid ass remark, not even going to comment on this
knife wound > bat hit - depends where, whats with all you people that play too much video games or read up on all this ninja shit, you guys are making it sound like if you get stabbed once with a knife you're as good as dead. It can hurt like a bitch but the stun a bat will give you I guarantee is more than enough, that and I think its a given the bat wielder will get the first shot at you. If you stab my arm and i whack your stupid ass head with a bat, what are you going to be doing?
If you want to talk about all this charge to the death shit, if you charge at someone like a dumbmotherfuk, how difficult you think it will be to dodge your stupid ass attack and whack you to death at the same time
Youre the one that plays too many ninja games, just dodge a guy who is sprinting at full speed at you with a knife? Yeah because its so easy, right? you dumbfuck.
And yeah, a knife would hurt like a bitch, would hurt MUCH more than a swing towards any part of the body that you can BLOCK.
And whats so retarded about "If the bat guy doesnt knock out the knife guy in the first blow hes as good as dead", once the knife guy is on top of him after the first swing, bat is no longer useful and its a knife vs whatever is left of the other guy.
On November 26 2006 11:42 Way wrote: if the bat guy doesnt kill on the first blow he's dead - stupid ass remark, not even going to comment on this
knife wound > bat hit - depends where, whats with all you people that play too much video games or read up on all this ninja shit, you guys are making it sound like if you get stabbed once with a knife you're as good as dead. It can hurt like a bitch but the stun a bat will give you I guarantee is more than enough, that and I think its a given the bat wielder will get the first shot at you. If you stab my arm and i whack your stupid ass head with a bat, what are you going to be doing?
If you want to talk about all this charge to the death shit, if you charge at someone like a dumbmotherfuk, how difficult you think it will be to dodge your stupid ass attack and whack you to death at the same time
Youre the one that plays too many ninja games, just dodge a guy who is sprinting at full speed at you with a knife? Yeah because its so easy, right? you dumbfuck.
And yeah, a knife would hurt like a bitch, would hurt MUCH more than a swing towards any part of the body that you can BLOCK.
And whats so retarded about "If the bat guy doesnt knock out the knife guy in the first blow hes as good as dead", once the knife guy is on top of him after the first swing, bat is no longer useful and its a knife vs whatever is left of the other guy.
If a guy is sprinting at me with a knife, i'm going to fucking move and hit him in the back of the head with my bat.
I would love to see you "block" a swinging bat and be unrattled enough to continue your attack with the knife.
Have you ever been in a fight or seen it, decaf?, when theres a guy that suddenly runs at you 2 meters away, you dont ever get the chance to "dodge him and hit him in the head", he will in most cases be able to grab you around your waist and then knock you to the ground.
And anyone who is fighting for his fucking life will find the pain of a swinging bat towards his arm a little obstacle to stab the other guy.
Would take the knife, sure a bat has longer reach, but if you just brace yourself and absorb the blow, you can disarm him, or just simply stab him in the chest a few times. Sure you will have some broken ribs, but you'll heal in time, he'll be dead.
Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
EDIT: Okay, I'm thinking about it more, and the knife guy for sure. The bat guy doesn't know for sure WHEN the knife guy may attack (he has to defend because attacking is suicidal here). So if you picture it, the bat guy must have the bat cocked back waiting for the opportunity to strike. He swings too early and he's done for and he knows it. If he swings late or not hard enough, he's done. There's just too much "perfect" to do. The knife guy can fake a few times and then jump in. The surprise of it usually would allow the swing to be less than full force. I'd say the best way to use the bat may even to use the butt of it and bring it down on the knife assalients head if he gets in that close without bat guy taking a swing yet, and try to knock him out or just temprary ground the guy, even if it means taking a shot in the stomach with the knife. Then it's just a matter of stabbing the knife guy with his open weapon when he's out for a while -- but this is a really dependent on where you get stabbed -- a heart strike would be fatal fast.
On November 26 2006 12:22 NotSorry wrote: Would take the knife, sure a bat has longer reach, but if you just brace yourself and absorb the blow, you can disarm him, or just simply stab him in the chest a few times. Sure you will have some broken ribs, but you'll heal in time, he'll be dead.
It depends are they equally better with a knife then a bat...
if equally good with both then its a tie... actually its a tie anyways if theyr equal on every aspect...
but the bat has more range, fuck actually it depends on if the strength and accuracy is equally good like if they could equally kill with one bat blow or does it take two, like then the knife would win due to sharpness and deadliness, no this debate is just fucked up...
also if they both were accurate at throwing, then its a tie cause if theyr good at thrownig bats then one hit head = gg but knife (almos anywhere to torso->head) =gg no re...
SO BASICLY TIE, BECAUSE THE DEBATE WAS NOT ACCURATELY MADE OUT, SO IF THEY ARE EQUAL WITH BOTH WEAPONS ITS A DAMN TIE...
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
again you're just being overly biased.
the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum
the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
yeah... it's not THAT hard to close the range. the bat has like maybe like 3 foot range where it's effective? and if the bat's swung prematurely, it leaves a huge opening for the knife guy to close in.
so the knife guy just has to be able to close in from 3 feet or so. and once he's close (like right next to) to the guy with the bat, the torque at that distance will be much less, so the attack will be much less damaging too. and while that's happening, you've already stabbed the guy once, and you're in close so can keep stabbing
Depends on their skill level, even if theyre the same. If theyre both slow but strong, bat's the way to go for concussive damage. But if theyre both fast and agile, knife just does more hurt that the swing of a bat could.
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
again you're just being overly biased.
the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum
the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job.
40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure.
And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: EDIT: Okay, I'm thinking about it more, and the knife guy for sure. The bat guy doesn't know for sure WHEN the knife guy may attack (he has to defend because attacking is suicidal here). So if you picture it, the bat guy must have the bat cocked back waiting for the opportunity to strike. He swings too early and he's done for and he knows it. If he swings late or not hard enough, he's done. There's just too much "perfect" to do. The knife guy can fake a few times and then jump in. The surprise of it usually would allow the swing to be less than full force. I'd say the best way to use the bat may even to use the butt of it and bring it down on the knife assalients head if he gets in that close without bat guy taking a swing yet, and try to knock him out or just temprary ground the guy, even if it means taking a shot in the stomach with the knife. Then it's just a matter of stabbing the knife guy with his open weapon when he's out for a while -- but this is a really dependent on where you get stabbed -- a heart strike would be fatal fast.
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
again you're just being overly biased.
the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum
the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job.
40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure.
And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
I think the sword was an excellent analogy, as people are failing to understand the ability of the bat to damage. Also, when people think of sword fighter they think of an ability to wield a sword and move at the same time... something even more possible with the lighter baseball bat.
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
again you're just being overly biased.
the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum
the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job.
40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure.
And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
the scenario is already given that the two fighters have equal skill, and all you're doing is taking the subject like some lameass math problem
how do i compare a sword with a bat? because i m just trying to reinforce the image that a heavier object that is longer does not make it more difficult to hit someone with a lot shorter weapon, since apparently so many of you see the guy with the knife as some dodging genius that can avoid these bat strikes, and that the bat makes it much more difficult to get a hit on a guy with a knife
its not that hard to picture that and you still don't bother to see the context of why i wrote about the sword in teh first place, so why dont you stop being a fag and think about what you say first?
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
again you're just being overly biased.
the knife guy does his thing? so I guess the bat guy is just going to sit on his ass and wait for the knife guy to stab him and he has this "40-60%" (i dont even know where the hell you come up with these stupid %s) chance to fuck up, good job being a physics nerd by talking about angular momentum
the sword analogy was used as a specific example to explain that length will normally get you first hit no matter what type of weapon you are using, dont bother saying stupid shit if you havent even read the content of my argument to start with
Doing his thing is stabbing. Not hard. Good job.
40-60 is arbitrary numbers that basically make it 50-50 but which way it leans depends on arguments, so I just made it so it could go either way, but the average would be about half. I mean, seriously, do you think you would easily be able to time a swing JUST perfectly exactly when the guy jumps at you? You don't know WHEN he's jumping at you. And if you lunch foward and swing (which is much easier to read based on body language) a miss or even a weak strike = 100% failure.
And the sword argument is the analogy for a fucking retard. How do you compare a sword with a bat? The main basis for this "fight" simulation is the one-strike deadly kill that is short range versus long range non-deadly-with-one-strike. Way to take all the advantages of the former and give it to the latter, fucking moron. That's why it doesn't make sense. So why dont you think about it before saying stupid shit.
I think the sword was an excellent analogy, as people are failing to understand the ability of the bat to damage. Also, when people think of sword fighter they think of an ability to wield a sword and move at the same time... something even more possible with the lighter baseball bat.
**with the bat you will break an arm at best. with a knife you will kill. knife win** what the fuck, a bat cant kill ?? ok thats good to know next time i get my skull cracked with a bat
Hard to say, but if the guy with the knife come close and is not close to failing unconcious you are pretty fucked because you will die and maybe not him.
you need to swing bat really hard at head to fracture skull = kill or swing hard at ribs to break ribs = kill or swing hard at legs and break legs = no mobility and then kill
but knife
stab into the sides of the body, neck, thigh and then twist knife when inside wound = gg no re bleeding
just block his bat swing and break your forearm and then counter stab, he wont be able to retract bat and swing again.
On November 26 2006 11:22 BeSiGeR wrote: not everyone knows how to throw a knife, and it could miss too
You dont need to know how to throw a knife, missing a throw when hes that close is retarded, just take a well balanced knife like that one, throw it against a wall or whatever, and you will see that its not so damn hard to throw a knife.
youd better make sure it lands in his throat or cuts a nerve or something otherwise you will be fucked
Lands on the throat? Cuts a nerve? This isnt a fucking sharpened pencil dude, any area near the chest where a knife hits you is mortal.
And once your knife lands on him, your fists and feet will prove much stronger than a stabbed guy with a bat
I was talking about you throwing a knife, because it better do damage enough to make it so i couldnt hit you in the face with my bat while you are unarmed.
A single stab wound or a knife being thrown at you wont disable you unless you are hit in certain spots.
If you threw a knife and it landed in my stomach, sure it would fuck me up really bad depending on how hard you through it and how far it went in, but id still be able to hit you in the face with my bat for a short while
and its true, a bat is no heavier than a sword for the most part so i dont see how you ninja freaks are making it seem like the agility of the person with the bat would be fucked yet if a person had a sword it wouldnt matter
I stand by what i was saying that no average person in their right mind would try fighting another average person with a knife if they had a bat. Youd need to sneak up on them or something or be right ontop of them because all ittakes is one decent hit with a bat and you are disoriented or on the ground
On November 26 2006 12:52 fusionsdf wrote: with the bat you will break an arm at best. with a knife you will kill. knife win
Knife blows aren't always fatal. Slashing is far easier with a knife than stabbing. Hell, a stab to the gut is the easiest potential fatal blow to score, but is not an 'instant kill.' A slash to the chest is insanely painful but the ribcage is still effective against a slash and against many stabs.
Baseball bat wins, sorry. You're not even going to get close enough to knick your baseball wielding counter-part.
erm. swing hard,?? ever been hit in the head with solid wood?? if the force is just enough to send you to the floor u are a dead man, how cant you people see that the bat doesent have to kill with one hit, it just has to send you to the ground, the next 4-5 hits will kill you, we got so many fucking terminators here who wouldnt even flinch at a bat smashing their arms.
The bat's damage is weak unless you have tons of momentum.
With a sword, it doesn't really matter how hard you're slicing off someone's head. But to build up enough momentum to have a deadly bat swing, you have to wind up alot, which means it's slower and that you're much less adaptable than with a sword.
I think it all comes down to the upper body strength of the individuals, and whether the bat guy can take 2 (powerful-enough) swings faster than the knife guy can run up to him from out of the bat's range.
Personally, I might be better off with the knife. But I can't comment on the average male adult because I have no idea how easily a guy like that can wield a baseball bat (and I imagine most other people here shouldn't comment on it either).
On November 26 2006 12:59 pyrogenetix wrote: id take knife
you need to swing bat really hard at head to fracture skull = kill or swing hard at ribs to break ribs = kill or swing hard at legs and break legs = no mobility and then kill
but knife
stab into the sides of the body, neck, thigh and then twist knife when inside wound = gg no re bleeding
just block his bat swing and break your forearm and then counter stab, he wont be able to retract bat and swing again.
yea w/e rigged toss LOLZ
yea k then i'll like
just block his knife stab and then bleed from my forearm and then counter swing, then he wont be able to stab again.
I would like to say that we lack certain informations. What are the starting stances, How heavy is the bat, what is a 'normal' guy?
I think the knife guy would win. Klogon has already summed it up quite nice. An average guy is not able to swing the bat with sufficient force to break an arm unless he is lucky with the hit. If he is to hit with a critical bash he has to put all his power behind. If he swings too early he will lose balance for a critical second (while missing), and if he swings a little too late he will not gain enough speed. He has to time it perfect to inflict serious damage. Trust me when I say halfhearted blows with a bat is 'easily' blocked. The knife guy has all the advantage he could possibly want. He could fake some attack and catch the bat guy off-balance ( if he swings he will be offbalance - if he doesn't the knifer could rush in). When you're offbalanced for half a second, the knife guy could rush in, stab, and then grabble.
If the bat had a proper handle like a sword the outcome might be very different, but it doesn't. That's one reason the sword analogy is flawed. A sword is lethal even if it's a soft hit, a bat is not. The sword is also deadly when used to stick with, very unlike a bat.
I think that using the bat as a sword and pooking the guy in the chest migth actually be a good idea. Keeps him away from you and if you get him off balance you migth have time to either connect a real hit or use a two handed grip to punch his knife/arm to the side and then nail him in the head with the other end. Basically using the bat like a rifle (although it wouldn't be as good as one).
On November 26 2006 13:10 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: I think that using the bat as a sword and pooking the guy in the chest migth actually be a good idea. Keeps him away from you and if you get him off balance you migth have time to either connect a real hit or use a two handed grip to punch his knife/arm to the side and then nail him in the head with the other end. Basically using the bat like a rifle (although it wouldn't be as good as one).
You can't poke with a bat. That's stupid: he will just grab it and then you're finished.
A lot of people think it's going to be a 20 second fight where the knife guy just charges the bat guy, gets his arm broken, then guts him. The bat guy knows that he is at a huge advantage when he is at least arms length away, and at a huge disadvantage when they are on top of each other. He will not say "let me just stand still and swing the bat as hard as I can and hopefully kill him." He is going to be skipping around, jabbing, poking, hitting ribs, hitting kneecaps, sidestepping, juking, hitting the arm with the knife etc. Unless you think he is really that retarded that he will think "well he is charging me, so let me just hit his unarmed arm as hard as I can and then get stabbed"
On November 26 2006 13:07 Cambium wrote: The knife guy will definitely win. It's much easier to block a bat swing than to dodge a knife stab. As well, a stab is much more fatal.
I totally disagree. If I tried to lunge at myself with a knife I would turn my hand to mush. If I went for the more traditional stabbing motion of the 1 armed hug into the gut, I would have myself beaten to the ground before I could get nearly close enough to gain leverage. As for slashing, what an awkward motion considering the range advantage of the bat wielding self. As for throwing, I'm fairly decent but I highly doubt my ability, especially with the often bottom/top (depending on construction) heavy butterfly knife.
I do not see an effective attack for the knife user. I do not see an effective defense for the knife user.
EDIT: I consider my size an ability slightly above an average Canadian. I'm a strong sprinter I can run 2.4km in 8 minutes no problem, I can jog indefinatly. About 30~ push-ups, sit-ups until I puke. I passed the now defunct Canadian Armed Forces fitness test no problem with my worst score being in the grip test. I'm about 5'11" and weight a bit over 160 pounds.
Iunno if this is the criteria we want for the fight, and if we accept this I will certainly not claim to be an expert based on that fact that I fit the criteria. (In the spirit of fair debate.)
On November 26 2006 13:07 Kochen wrote: I would like to say that we lack certain informations. What are the starting stances, How heavy is the bat, what is a 'normal' guy?
I think the knife guy would win. Klogon has already summed it up quite nice. An average guy is not able to swing the bat with sufficient force to break an arm unless he is lucky with the hit. If he is to hit with a critical bash he has to put all his power behind. If he swings too early he will lose balance for a critical second (while missing), and if he swings a little too late he will not gain enough speed. He has to time it perfect to inflict serious damage. Trust me when I say halfhearted blows with a bat is 'easily' blocked. The knife guy has all the advantage he could possibly want. He could fake some attack and catch the bat guy off-balance ( if he swings he will be offbalance - if he doesn't the knifer could rush in). When you're offbalanced for half a second, the knife guy could rush in, stab, and then grabble.
If the bat had a proper handle like a sword the outcome might be very different, but it doesn't. That's one reason the sword analogy is flawed. A sword is lethal even if it's a soft hit, a bat is not. The sword is also deadly when used to stick with, very unlike a bat.
Edit: so many answers while i typed
again, why are you discussing the lethal difference between the sword and the bat? i've only said a million times its about the length and how that works to the advantage of the bat user ... read previous posts, too lazy to explain this now
Guys guys, its a total 50% chance for either. Any more arguing is just assuming too much. One good swing of the bat, if it connects, would down the knife guy, especially if it connected with the head. If the swing was too hard and missed, batman is screwed. Otherwise, it all depends on whether or not batman's first swing connects. One it is all it takes.
This is all scenerio action/reaction, I'd say the bat dude gets to do the action as the knife does the counter or reaction, Kinda like pvz.
Scenerio 1: Bat swings at you, all you do is block with your arm and stab, im sorry bat guy will not be fast enough to dodge OUT OF ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, since both players are equally fast/strong, and knfe guy has the momentum advantage. Its like knife guy has a +1, but both in the beginning are 5's 5+1 (momentum advantage) > 5.
Scenerio 2. Batter crouches and goes for your legs, IF your running at them and they hit you straight up on the kneecap, you will fall forward, and with your arms reached out YOU CAN DEFINATELY stab him anywhere from his neck/chest/head. Because from your knee ---> tip of ur hand, You exceed in range as your falling towards him, he has no time to dodge,parry, HEADSHOT with a knife.
If both are equally fast strong, There is no way in hell the batter is gonna get a K.O in 1 shot, all a knifer has to do is sacrifice his arm, unless the bat swing is below waist (in which it wud be hard) but then scenerio 2 reaction comes into play.
Umm....What if he threw the bat? I mean to throw a knife you need to be good with it and stick him, but If you put alot of momentum into a throw with a bat it doesn't matter what side hits him, then you can just walk up and kick his ass for using a punk ass knife.
I'd take bat anyday >_> I mean I can still live for another 5 minutes after been poked in the belly by a kinfe but a blow w/ a bat to the head normally knocks you out cold straight away and then you can proceed to beat his brains out.
And bat swing has automatically knock back, so each time you get hit w/ a bat you go backward/side ways away from your target ~_~ This is a classical debate, as stated in Chinese weaponary proverb: "An inch longer, an inch more of strength; An inch shorter, an inch more of danger" Which means the longer weapon has more strength(the bat) while the shorter one is more dangerous(the knife). Note the danger is in both ways for knife because you risk both of you and your opponent by getting really close ^_^
On November 26 2006 13:24 Aukai wrote: Umm....What if he threw the bat? I mean to throw a knife you need to be good with it and stick him, but If you put alot of momentum into a throw with a bat it doesn't matter what side hits him, then you can just walk up and kick his ass for using a punk ass knife.
how heavy are those louisville sluggers anyway? o.O
im not even gona argue any more, it just making me nervous, il just say for the last time, U CANT take a hit that smashes your arm into pieces and continue like nothing happened, whats with all this *i block and take a broken arm* crap , you are not terminator, u fill flinch, u will feel pain, u will stumble
On November 26 2006 13:22 Protoss-Fighting wrote: This is all scenerio action/reaction, I'd say the bat dude gets to do the action as the knife does the counter or reaction, Kinda like pvz.
Scenerio 1: Bat swings at you, all you do is block with your arm and stab, im sorry bat guy will not be fast enough to dodge OUT OF ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, since both players are equally fast/strong, and knfe guy has the momentum advantage. Its like knife guy has a +1, but both in the beginning are 5's 5+1 (momentum advantage) > 5.
Scenerio 2. Batter crouches and goes for your legs, IF your running at them and they hit you straight up on the kneecap, you will fall forward, and with your arms reached out YOU CAN DEFINATELY stab him anywhere from his neck/chest/head. Because from your knee ---> tip of ur hand, You exceed in range as your falling towards him, he has no time to dodge,parry, HEADSHOT with a knife.
If both are equally fast strong, There is no way in hell the batter is gonna get a K.O in 1 shot, all a knifer has to do is sacrifice his arm, unless the bat swing is below waist (in which it wud be hard) but then scenerio 2 reaction comes into play.
its spelt scenario, and you're from the US? scenario 1: knife guy momentum advantage lol? if you let the bat guy get first hit on you as some sort of sacrificial move you're going to be thrown off balance and you're giving the bat guy advantage, not the other way around. this is not street fighter, you dont get hit with something and you do a counter attack for bonus points and expect your body to feel nothing when you first get hit
scenario 2: dumbass scenario you must've been taking a shit when you made this scenario up
i personally feel more comfortable with a bat, because i've played lots of baseball (which these two average fighters should also have done), and because it has a lot of range.
if i had the knife though, i would try running fast towards the batter, try to feint him into swinging high and then dive low and take out his feet (with a tackle, not your knife lol...), you may take a hit whose strength will depend on your feint's success, but even a full strength downward swing is better than a straight swing, and at least you'd take him off his feet, at which point a knife has advantage, because you can just start jabbing shit.
EDIT: that's just what i'd do if i had the knife, i'd much rather have the bat though :/
about the crouching thing... someone earlier suggested it as a strategy to use when wielding the bat. but try crouching and pretending you're swinging a bat. it's weak as hell, because you don't get the strength from twisting your body and waist.
i.e. it wouldn't do any damage, so knifer would destroy batman in that scenario even worse
On November 26 2006 13:42 Polemarch wrote: about the crouching thing... someone earlier suggested it as a strategy to use when wielding the bat. but try crouching and pretending you're swinging a bat. it's weak as hell, because you don't get the strength from twisting your body and waist.
i.e. it wouldn't do any damage, so knifer would destroy batman in that scenario even worse
getting low defies all logic in this fight. You lower your mobility and make yourself vunerable to the leverage of height/length.
On November 26 2006 13:42 Polemarch wrote: about the crouching thing... someone earlier suggested it as a strategy to use when wielding the bat. but try crouching and pretending you're swinging a bat. it's weak as hell, because you don't get the strength from twisting your body and waist.
i.e. it wouldn't do any damage, so knifer would destroy batman in that scenario even worse
getting low defies all logic in this fight. You lower your mobility and make yourself vunerable to the leverage of height/length.
wont getting low give you a lower centre of gravity or w/e?
anyway i play tennis and all, before you swing (or actually you should be at all times) you have to crouch slightly, one leg in front of the other.
squating ---> suicide, might aswell bash your own head with the bat and save the knife guy some trouble, on the + side this thread is doing a nice job of increasing my post count
On November 26 2006 13:42 Polemarch wrote: about the crouching thing... someone earlier suggested it as a strategy to use when wielding the bat. but try crouching and pretending you're swinging a bat. it's weak as hell, because you don't get the strength from twisting your body and waist.
i.e. it wouldn't do any damage, so knifer would destroy batman in that scenario even worse
getting low defies all logic in this fight. You lower your mobility and make yourself vunerable to the leverage of height/length.
wont getting low give you a lower centre of gravity or w/e?
anyway i play tennis and all, before you swing (or actually you should be at all times) you have to crouch slightly, one leg in front of the other.
otherwise i get shitty shots. o.O
Your getting lower so you can use your core muscles in the shot, by lowering yourself in this situation you expose the back of your head and decrease maneuverability. Thats if you have knife, I can't think why you'd want to crouch with the bat and remove your advantage of range.
On November 26 2006 13:42 Polemarch wrote: about the crouching thing... someone earlier suggested it as a strategy to use when wielding the bat. but try crouching and pretending you're swinging a bat. it's weak as hell, because you don't get the strength from twisting your body and waist.
i.e. it wouldn't do any damage, so knifer would destroy batman in that scenario even worse
getting low defies all logic in this fight. You lower your mobility and make yourself vunerable to the leverage of height/length.
wont getting low give you a lower centre of gravity or w/e?
anyway i play tennis and all, before you swing (or actually you should be at all times) you have to crouch slightly, one leg in front of the other.
otherwise i get shitty shots. o.O
Your getting lower so you can use your core muscles in the shot, by lowering yourself in this situation you expose the back of your head and decrease maneuverability. Thats if you have knife, I can't think why you'd want to crouch with the bat and remove your advantage of range.
hmm exposing back of my head and decreasing maneuverability?
and crouching would give more power to my swing though wouldn't it..
also i think in a crouched position it'd be a better position to run away with as well. you dont see olympic runners standing straight as a telephone pole at the start positions right ==
If both fighters are trained with the weapons, I'd say the knife.
If both fighters were unskilled with physical combat, I'd say the bat.
Explanation: it's difficult to hit someone with a bat in the right way so as to disable them. Once the knife-fighter gets in close, it's over. I went to a mainly caldean high school, so I got in a lot of fights with the arrogant Italian-wannabes. I've notices that in fist fights, it's hard to get a solid punch on another person, much more so than it looks as a bystander. People move, or throw their arms up, or you don't throw it straight. I'd assume the same principles apply to using a bat or other non-fist objects.
On November 26 2006 13:42 Polemarch wrote: about the crouching thing... someone earlier suggested it as a strategy to use when wielding the bat. but try crouching and pretending you're swinging a bat. it's weak as hell, because you don't get the strength from twisting your body and waist.
i.e. it wouldn't do any damage, so knifer would destroy batman in that scenario even worse
getting low defies all logic in this fight. You lower your mobility and make yourself vunerable to the leverage of height/length.
wont getting low give you a lower centre of gravity or w/e?
anyway i play tennis and all, before you swing (or actually you should be at all times) you have to crouch slightly, one leg in front of the other.
otherwise i get shitty shots. o.O
Your getting lower so you can use your core muscles in the shot, by lowering yourself in this situation you expose the back of your head and decrease maneuverability. Thats if you have knife, I can't think why you'd want to crouch with the bat and remove your advantage of range.
hmm exposing back of my head and decreasing maneuverability?
and crouching would give more power to my swing though wouldn't it..
also i think in a crouched position it'd be a better position to run away with as well. you dont see olympic runners standing straight as a telephone pole at the start positions right ==
What you're talking about is natural posture in movement, when you say crouch think of the first James Bond video game/ Perfect Dark crouching.
On November 26 2006 14:43 oneofthem wrote: bat. I would honestly not be able to use a knife or gun. I will maybe use a bat to hit the guy's arms or something. :/
yeah i know i'm a little lamb waiting to be slaughtered on the streets.
On November 26 2006 12:25 Klogon wrote: Basically, the guy on the defence has the advantage. If you're the guy with the bat, and you try to attack, you'd do so by swinging back and forth, which would allow openings due to the recovery time of swinging a heavy object at a high velocity. Those of you who say "it is only 4 lbs at most" aren't factoring in the speed and torque at which a bat is swung. Angular momentum is greater than you'd think for an object with the length of a bat. If you are gonig for damage, you're swinging the thing FAST and hard, otherwise it is quiet useless. So the bat's swing must be dead on and precise.
But then again, the knife guy doesn't want to get hit, because if it he gets hit and doesn't manage to inflict damage on the bat guy, he's at a major disadvantage. Imagine being hit, then bat guy managing to get away from knife guy and then back to square one. Of course, that really only applies when knife guy charges or if the bat guy manages to get a clean hit while attacking, which seems fairly unlikely.
Most people here seem to assume the knife is the first to attack, probably based on a real life situations where the "knife" is often the aggressor because it is a deadly weapon, but the person who is on defence in this senario is one with the upper hand.
That said, it is far easier to inflict battle winning damage with a knife than a bat. Meaning, there is less room for error once you are within striking distance. If the bat man will mess up 40-60% of the time with this swing against a charging knife guy, he's dead everytime he messes up. But the knife guy will be victorious 100% when he gets within striking distance and does his thing.
Assuming both know it is for death, I'd give it to the knife man. If it is a normal street fight, I'd give it to the bat because noboday wants a broken arm and a homocide trial awaiting them. It just takes a lot more for a man to knowingly BREAK his own arm and then STAB another man than it takes just to swing a bat at somebody's body, although a headstrike would take a lot. So basically it gets down to the psychology of it.
Oh, and I'd like to add that the sword analogy doesn't apply because a sword is a deadly weapon which one hit gaurantees victory while the same doesn't apply for a bat. It's like saying the knife guy having a pair of chopsticks is the same thing -- it really isn't.
EDIT: Okay, I'm thinking about it more, and the knife guy for sure. The bat guy doesn't know for sure WHEN the knife guy may attack (he has to defend because attacking is suicidal here). So if you picture it, the bat guy must have the bat cocked back waiting for the opportunity to strike. He swings too early and he's done for and he knows it. If he swings late or not hard enough, he's done. There's just too much "perfect" to do. The knife guy can fake a few times and then jump in. The surprise of it usually would allow the swing to be less than full force. I'd say the best way to use the bat may even to use the butt of it and bring it down on the knife assalients head if he gets in that close without bat guy taking a swing yet, and try to knock him out or just temprary ground the guy, even if it means taking a shot in the stomach with the knife. Then it's just a matter of stabbing the knife guy with his open weapon when he's out for a while -- but this is a really dependent on where you get stabbed -- a heart strike would be fatal fast.
^ Concludes the thread.
The people argumenting the bat side are always leaving out convenient details and things stated against them. Just read Klogon's post, it pretty much sums it up. Good post Klogon and well argumented.
On November 26 2006 14:49 oneofthem wrote: i would say you understand very little about anarchy. any violence is coercion and therefore an archy.
Now you're just being circumstancial. Under anarchy people mostly envision a state of society, not the order in a single event. So before you start down this path you might want to specify the course of action or circumstance you're argumenting here.
Consistent violence is almost always a sure road to anarchy for civilised people since it leads to (civil) war or a means to keep society in a state of disorder by use of terrorism. Though I concur it can be used to impose order onto things through coercion, take Nazi Germany for example or Sovjet Russia. (Im sure theres western countries as well but these spring to mind first, sorry to be stereotypical)
But a state in archy or order will rarely exist on basis of violence and even more rarely will keep existing on that basis due to human nature. Anarchy on the other hand will in practise almost always involve violence, again due to its basis in human nature.
Anyway I'm taking the thread away and hijacking, sorry. This is for another thread, might be interesting for someone to start one and have a good discussion concerning it. Could be interesting as long as people keep it civil and stay precise about what it's state they are argumenting about.
please do not debate offtopic things here. for one i will say that that discussion is framed by my definition of anarchy, and the situation is one in which blackjack did not understand what i meant by anarchist. The politics side of things is not that important for me now, i'd rather talk about ethics and what is ethics, something along those lines.
Knife wins. You can take a bat hit to your arm, it takes a real big swing to break it, and even if its breaks you probably have the knife in the other hand anyway and then you just have to stab him and it's over.
On November 26 2006 12:55 BeSiGeR wrote: **with the bat you will break an arm at best. with a knife you will kill. knife win** what the fuck, a bat cant kill ?? ok thats good to know next time i get my skull cracked with a bat
you really just expect the knife guy to stand there and get hit? If someone swings a large object toward your head, you dont react?
The person with the knife will ward off the blow with their hand. If they are stupid enough to use their knife hand to block, the knife will fall and it will become a grapple over control of the bat. If he uses his other arm to block, gg. if he dodges it, or he deflects it, no chance in hell for the bat guy. This quesion isnt even close.
Butterfly knives are scary. You can cut yourself if you don't know how to use one. Of course, a well trained balisong-wielding guy can slice up a bat-wielding guy pretty badly.
Analyzing a street fight with physics is stupid, because anyone who has been in/seen a street fight knows that bat>knife, EASILY
Unless you're fucking 350 pounds of pure muscle and even then, if someone breaks your arm when you "block with it and then you have the knife in the other hand its over," you're going to fucking scream, drop the knife, and fall down because HE JUST BROKE YOUR ARM WITH A PIECE OF WOOD.
The person with the knife will ward off the blow with their hand. If they are stupid enough to use their knife hand to block, the knife will fall and it will become a grapple over control of the bat. If he uses his other arm to block, gg. if he dodges it, or he deflects it, no chance in hell for the bat guy. This quesion isnt even close.
.....lol.
If they are supposed to be of equal skill, then all you people saying that the knife guy would dodge and take openings are wrong again, because the bat guy is supposed to be that skilled too.
On November 26 2006 17:13 yubee wrote: the easiest way to all kill with the knife would be to lunge in, wait for the swing, then parry the baseball bat with the knife
pa CHING!
then after than use your quarter circle back spin kick but first glue the knife onto your foot with crazy glue
You may be onto something there, lets ask Chuck how he feels about this.
Well the guy with the bat of course will move around. When knifer comes close, he'll swing toward arm / whatever he can hit, manuver, and try to keep the distance. But this is only assuming the knife guy is on the offensive... assuming knifer is like charging. But manuvering and getting extra hits is key for the batter. That seems fairly hard though... this isn't a video game fighting game. People in real life move with far better agility and things move quickly. Just because the bat swings doesn't mean it will even land with much force. It's like how somebody mentioned in a real street fight it is rare that a punch will land directly with full force. There has to be velocity and accuracy... the end of the bat must strike the target, not near the base. THAT is where the analogy of the sword and the bat falls apart.
A sword can slice. You don't need to bring it around, use all your muscles, and swing the bastard to inflict damage. Small cuts here and there jabbing here and there, etc is very effective. Plus, unlike against a batter, a knifer would never be able to charge a sword... think sword stab > knife stab. Is that so hard to grasp?
For some of the heavier bats or if the guy is holding his knife all out away from his body and not protecting it much, I can also see somebody holding the fat part of the bat and using the skinnier side for the increased speed to use as a sort of disarming device against the knife. Someone who knows how do that properly would have a great advantage because the handicap of a heavy object with slow recovery is greatly reduced. But this approach also decreases the immediate danger factor of the bat -- a swing is unlikely to do as much damage so blocking the strikes will become more effective for the knifer. But it is a compromise a weaker batter may take.
On November 26 2006 12:53 Way wrote: that and you still don't bother to see the context of why i wrote about the sword in teh first place, so why dont you stop being a fag and think about what you say first?
On November 26 2006 17:00 DarK]N[exuS wrote: Ok several things:
Analyzing a street fight with physics is stupid, because anyone who has been in/seen a street fight knows that bat>knife, EASILY
Unless you're fucking 350 pounds of pure muscle and even then, if someone breaks your arm when you "block with it and then you have the knife in the other hand its over," you're going to fucking scream, drop the knife, and fall down because HE JUST BROKE YOUR ARM WITH A PIECE OF WOOD.
The person with the knife will ward off the blow with their hand. If they are stupid enough to use their knife hand to block, the knife will fall and it will become a grapple over control of the bat. If he uses his other arm to block, gg. if he dodges it, or he deflects it, no chance in hell for the bat guy. This quesion isnt even close.
.....lol.
If they are supposed to be of equal skill, then all you people saying that the knife guy would dodge and take openings are wrong again, because the bat guy is supposed to be that skilled too.
Its not about skill. I'll ask you again. If someone swings something big at you, you wont react?
I find it hard to believe anyone here has ever defended themselves against baseball bat or knife attacks, so it's funny watching everyone present this moment by moment timeline of exactly what will happen when 1 swings or the other, but the biggest crux of this stupid argument is the fact that both men are equally skilled. Theres not going to be a wild crazy swing that misses and is followed up with a stab to the gut, because the batman would already see this coming. Therefore all you can look at is the weapon. A baseball bat by itself is more damaging in one hit than a knife against anything. Against a tree, against bricks, against a car, and against the human body. You place a baseball bat and a knife side by side on a table and give someone one hit against an object and ask them which of the items will do the most damage, what do you think theyre going to pick? A knife cant do shit unless used repeatedly, i.e. multiple stabbings. All it takes is one hit from a baseball bat ANYWHERE on the body and you are essentially worthless at this point. You arent going to block a bat with your arm, because your entire arm is going to cave in and your whole body is going to contort to the impact and flail over on the ground as the bat moves through you like a battering ram.
after getting hit once by someone who isn't a weakling swinging with a bat, you are basically incapable of doing anything else. all these people saying "absorb" or "block" the bat swing simply have never taken a bat to the arm or side before. yeah ok, you'll block it with your arm, which will shatter into many pieces and you'll still be able to run and stab the bat guy, sure.
and theres no fucking way he's going to miss with the bat. i mean you're not fucking mario or ryu from streetfighter, you are normal human being who cannot move fast enough to dodge a bat.
this is whats going to happen. bat guy walks up to you, swings, hits you, you maybe or maybe not get off a slash or stab at his arms or shoulder or leg or whatever. once you get hit once and some bones break or you are stunned, its over because the next time you're getting hit in the head.
i'm not about to read through 11 pages, but i can tell you i've been cracked with a bat before and it didn't kill me. with a knife, you could just lunge and one cut to the throat = gg. plus, there's a longer swing time with a bat.
On November 26 2006 19:13 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: i'm not about to read through 11 pages, but i can tell you i've been cracked with a bat before and it didn't kill me. with a knife, you could just lunge and one cut to the throat = gg. plus, there's a longer swing time with a bat.
Ok so you've been hit by a bat (we'll go ahead and assume it was by a very strong martial arts practitioner), have you ever been stabbed with a knife? Theres only two places youre going to die relatively quickly when stabbed with a knife, the heart or the neck. And whaddya know, those are two of the most difficult if not down right impossible places to successfully and coordinately pinpoint a strike.
But don't you get +10 style points from using the knife? I mean, it even has a sexy name. It's not just any knife, it's a butterfly knife. Goddamn, if I were the batter I'd shit my pants just going up against such a sexy weapon.
On November 26 2006 19:13 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: i'm not about to read through 11 pages, but i can tell you i've been cracked with a bat before and it didn't kill me. with a knife, you could just lunge and one cut to the throat = gg. plus, there's a longer swing time with a bat.
Ok so you've been hit by a bat (we'll go ahead and assume it was by a very strong martial arts practitioner), have you ever been stabbed with a knife? Theres only two places youre going to die relatively quickly when stabbed with a knife, the heart or the neck. And whaddya know, those are two of the most difficult if not down right impossible places to successfully and coordinately pinpoint a strike.
no, i've never been stabbed. i'd be dead. my point exactly. and how hard is it to stab someone in the neck? i don't really know how to argue that, i'm missing how it's so hard. plus, the first thing i would do is get the bat out of the other guy hand's (which would be alot easier than trying to take a knife)
On November 26 2006 18:04 NewbSaibot wrote: I find it hard to believe anyone here has ever defended themselves against baseball bat or knife attacks, so it's funny watching everyone present this moment by moment timeline of exactly what will happen when 1 swings or the other, but the biggest crux of this stupid argument is the fact that both men are equally skilled. Theres not going to be a wild crazy swing that misses and is followed up with a stab to the gut, because the batman would already see this coming. Therefore all you can look at is the weapon. A baseball bat by itself is more damaging in one hit than a knife against anything. Against a tree, against bricks, against a car, and against the human body. You place a baseball bat and a knife side by side on a table and give someone one hit against an object and ask them which of the items will do the most damage, what do you think theyre going to pick? A knife cant do shit unless used repeatedly, i.e. multiple stabbings. All it takes is one hit from a baseball bat ANYWHERE on the body and you are essentially worthless at this point. You arent going to block a bat with your arm, because your entire arm is going to cave in and your whole body is going to contort to the impact and flail over on the ground as the bat moves through you like a battering ram.
Thats the stupidest experiment ever. Its not about who will do more damage against a wall. If you honestly believe that if someone takes a knife and is allowed to stab anywhere they want -- and that the victim will not die and will not be significantly hurt, then I don't have any further words to waste on you.
A baseball bat against a person who doesnt strike back, wont dodge, and wont block will one hit ko. almost certainly the person will survive - may even avoid brain damage and have nothing worse thatn a serious concusion. A knife will kill.
But thats beside the point. These guys arent knights, and they arent going to take turns like some retarded version of roshambo. Both will try to block, and both will try to dodge.
The crucial thing to note is that the knife-wielder is the attacker, while the bat-wielder is the defender. I will go for the aggressor in this fight to the death.
To calm all doubt. I will stand face to face with you. Right up close. Just try to hit me hard. Like siege tanks against zealots.
On November 26 2006 19:50 fusionsdf wrote: A baseball bat against a person who doesnt strike back, wont dodge, and wont block will one hit ko. almost certainly the person will survive - may even avoid brain damage and have nothing worse thatn a serious concusion.
You obviously have absolutely no concept of human fragility, so i too am done with this conversation.
On November 26 2006 19:50 fusionsdf wrote: A baseball bat against a person who doesnt strike back, wont dodge, and wont block will one hit ko. almost certainly the person will survive - may even avoid brain damage and have nothing worse thatn a serious concusion.
You obviously have absolutely no concept of human fragility, so i too am done with this conversation.
Um what? I've been there while someone got struck in the head with a baseball bat.
And that still has absolutely nothing to do with the problem. Both can take out the other in one hit. Im going to assume you believe this.
That doesnt matter. The point is that the batter has a minimum range while the knife fighter doesnt. The max range for the bat isnt long enough to make him invincible. All of his attacks are easier to read than knife attacks.
Knife = autodeath upon a good hit. Any other slash with cause severe bleeding, ect. Bat = You get hit without full force, your still able to attack. Can't attack when closer then 2 feet.
If this isn't settled by tomorrow, I'm posting a video on YouTube to show you all why knives >>>> baseball bats.
wow this is riduclous. no one just stands in one spot flailing their arms around. if you've got a knife, tackle the guy with the bat, slice his jug, end.
You wouldn't swing the bat like you're hitting a baseball unless you're retarded. You'd kinda poke and jab with it like it were a staff. Bat wins, easy.
On November 26 2006 20:54 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: wow this is riduclous. no one just stands in one spot flailing their arms around. if you've got a knife, tackle the guy with the bat, slice his jug, end.
if u just run at a person with a bat he would have to swing at that moment so that bat hits yr body while u passing its range limit therefore hed have to be able to predict yr location at the time therefore ud have to be moving with same speed and hed have to be pretty coordinated just get it right - if guy hits u with anything lower then heavy part of that bat, u are fine and if say when he swings u just back off and then jump at him its over knife for sure. im not that dumb)
On November 26 2006 20:59 a-I)rei wrote: if u just run at a person with a bat he would have to swing at that moment so that bat hits yr body while u passing its range limit therefore hed have to be able to predict yr location at the time therefore ud have to be moving with same speed and hed have to be pretty coordinated just get it right - if guy hits u with anything lower then heavy part of that bat, u are fine and if say when he swings u just back off and then jump at him its over knife for sure. im not that dumb)
On November 26 2006 20:47 fusionsdf wrote: Um what? I've been there while someone got struck in the head with a baseball bat.
You've been there when someone just stood still, and let someone else strike them at full power into their head? This was the scenerio you brought up saying how a bad would only knock someone out. Maybe, just MAYBE cause a concussion if theyre lucky. Laff. If i hit you full strength with a baseball bat to the head you would die instantly. Your skull would completely fracture and your brain would hemorrhage.
That doesnt matter. The point is that the batter has a minimum range while the knife fighter doesnt. The max range for the bat isnt long enough to make him invincible. All of his attacks are easier to read than knife attacks.
Minimum range? The advantage here is the maximum range. The bat enables him to attack you at a distance where you cannot retaliate. You will always be at a distance too far to even reach him. Yes the attacks are telegraphed, and the only way the bat is going to subdue you is with a very very strong hit. However he is only going to deal that hit when he knows it will impact. If he see's you pull away, he withdraws the swing. If the swing makes contact, you're through. It's simple math.
The only confusion here is that some people believe you can duck and cover and let someone wallop you at 100% with a baseball bat, then just look up and stick your puny arm forward and boom they go down from being stabbed one time in the thigh or general torso area. People survive getting stabbed all the time. I wish there were more acts of baseball violence however a bat is not as concealable as a knife and therefore not as popular.
On November 26 2006 20:54 AmorVincitOmnia wrote: wow this is riduclous. no one just stands in one spot flailing their arms around. if you've got a knife, tackle the guy with the bat, slice his jug, end.
Yes the attacks are telegraphed, and the only way the bat is going to subdue you is with a very very strong hit. However he is only going to deal that hit when he knows it will impact. If he see's you pull away, he withdraws the swing. If the swing makes contact, you're through. It's simple math.
imagine 2 guys one swinging one hopping around waiting for a chance who u think gona get tired and stabbed
On November 26 2006 21:06 evanthebouncy~ wrote: Bat is not a weapon Knife is a weapon I'd use bat to avoid charges >_>
haha if a cop saw you hitting someone with a bat you'd still get charged with assault with a deadly weapon and have to go to jail, minor or not (i don't know how old you are).
On November 26 2006 10:39 Asta wrote: ppl who said the baseball bat wins are stupid. real fights don't look like boxing or martial arts. it's infight all the way. the only way you can avoid an infight is by running away. if the bat-guy is lucky he hits the other guy but who cares? the knife will still find its way.
I'd love to pop you in the face with the end of a bat and see you continue to come at me. I guarantee you that if the guy uses it in a more spear-like fashion the guy with the knife loses. You can come all you want, but you won't be able to get in close enough to do damage. After your nose is broken, and half of your teeth are knocked out from being hit multiple times by a bat in the face, I guarantee you're exhausted, and you're going to fall. That means I can take your knife and kill you with it, or bash your skull with the bat.
Also, if you get hit with a bat, full swing, you're going down. You cannot take a hit from a baseball bat. Anyone who says they can are lying to themselves. I doubt many of you have the pain tolerance to take a few cracked ribs, or a busted elbow to keep going and try to take someone on. At the least, you're slowed down enough for the guy with the bat to move away.
On November 26 2006 10:52 Sadist wrote: if this is based on real life just ask yourself one question
Someone tries to rob a convenience store with a butterfly knife, a man pulls out a baseball bat from behind the counter, who runs away?
thats right, good ol american baseball > that piece of shit butterfly knife
Erm no, i dont think so.
Since youre just giving stupid examples how about this one:
You, unarmed, with no training at all and whatever, would prefer fighting a guy with a knife, in which a single injury could mean death, or a guy with a bat when broken bones can be mended.
And a knife wouldnt do much for you when you are on the floor?
Wtf you dont need basically any strenght to thrust a knife into someones flesh, its the bat that is useless once you get stabbed.
We aren't living in video game world here, broken bones hurt pretty fucking badly last I checked (and I've broken bones, they hurt to break). Not many people can tolerate broken bones to the point that they have the ability to attack unfazed by it.
On November 26 2006 11:10 Cloud wrote: Yeah, while lunging, i mean wtf its specially easier to duck or roll forward while lunging.
Besides its obvious that the bat guy is going to swing to your head, so you will be always try to be ready to roll.
And no, any average person would not run while having a knife when the other guy has a bat.
Anyone can use a knife, not everyone can swing hard enough to knock out cold a guy whos running towards you like if hells was chasing him.
It's a hell of a lot easier to KO a guy running at you, because you get the combined force of the blows. Imagine running face first into a brick wall, it's going to hurt. Now, imagine your face is a baseball, and you're getting hit by a baseball bat, it's going to KO you.
On November 26 2006 11:22 BeSiGeR wrote: not everyone knows how to throw a knife, and it could miss too
You dont need to know how to throw a knife, missing a throw when hes that close is retarded, just take a well balanced knife like that one, throw it against a wall or whatever, and you will see that its not so damn hard to throw a knife.
A butterfly knife is not well-balanced. Try throwing one sometime. Hell, the fucking thing might close itself before it hits the guy, then what? He's got your knife, and his bat.
On November 26 2006 20:50 to miss the mark wrote: How can you say that a bat wins?
Knife = autodeath upon a good hit. Any other slash with cause severe bleeding, ect. Bat = You get hit without full force, your still able to attack. Can't attack when closer then 2 feet.
If this isn't settled by tomorrow, I'm posting a video on YouTube to show you all why knives >>>> baseball bats.
I dare you to let me hit you full swing with a baseball bat and still be able to do anything. Does that mean I would prefer the bat? No, not really. The knife is less conspicuous and easier to carry around. Who would win in baseball bat vs knife depends a lot on both technique and available open space (less space to move makes the bat more clumsy, with movements more predictable).
At the highest level in an open space the bat has the advantage due to it's reach since the fighter with the bat will hold his opponent at range and trying to step inside that range means taking a critical blow that at best for the guy with the knife will "merely" limit his ability to move quickly and at worst will kill him on the spot (and if you think a good hit to the head or a hard enough hit to the chest is not fatal, then you are dreaming).
If a guy came at me with a knife.. and I had a bat. I would feel REALLY good about my chances. Likewise, if I had a knife and the other guy had a fucking metal bat I would probably reconsider a direct face to face confrontation.
Don't really need justification other then this is merely how I would feel.
I don't reckon you could get close enough to stab the guy without being hit with a bat at least once. Unless he's a fucktard or you're a ninja. But equal skills, you're gonna get hit. And being hit with a baseball bat, doubt you'll be in any position to stab anything if it connects well. Baseball bat would win.
i cant beleive that 12 pages later, and me screaming countless times , people are still coming up with this* block with arm* crap. good work iron man, hand > wood
look, its been 13 pages, someone had to do it or the whole thread would get ruined, boxer is related to EVERYTHING, and nada, well he just stands there looking pretty, anyways i think the poll is settling this debate
On November 27 2006 01:35 Tezumai wrote: If you were to miss with the bat you would be fucked. 5 stabs in the throat, ggnore. Thus, the bat is ineffective at short range.
Therefor I would rather take the butterfly and wait for the batterguy to make his move.
Once again, there is more than one way to attack with a baseball bat. You don't have to swing it like you're hitting a baseball. It's a far more versatile tool than that. You can poke/jab with it right to the other guys face, kinda like a spear stab.
i dont know why should we stop with the starcraft jokes, i mean its all related, just look at those pro gaming coaches, wielding bats all the time, now only if one player would stand up to them with a knife !!
On November 26 2006 11:04 BeSiGeR wrote: for the knife to be used to its full potential the person has to have some kind of training, the bat does not, any retard can swing, its just about keeping distance, and you dont only have the bat, kicking is also a good way for keeping distance
True. Using the knife effectively is not easy. Anyone used a bat before to hit something. I don't know if the same goes for knife...
How many of you used a bat before to hit something and how many of you used a knife to stab something? The guy with the knife would hesitate to rush with an all-in forward move against the guy that swings the bat.
The guy with the bat doesn't need precision. He'll just hit in a general area, starting from knees, up to the head. The blow is circular; if it's in range, it will not miss.
The guy with the knife can not go for the head or hands because they are too fast moving targets. It will go for the torso. But to get in range, he needs to avoid the bat swing. And as I said, the determined bat swing has very high changes of sucess.
Any serious fight has an very important emotional part. The system is full of adrenaline. A full bat swing is like a discharge of anger. Hit like a train whatever mother fucker it is in front of you! The guy with the knife must control he's anger to get in range without being hit. And control is hard to achieve of you are not trained in fighting. When you are angry and full of adrenaline, there is no room for logical thoughts, reason. You won't even see the bat coming. It will smash you like a potato.
1) People assume a knife stab is lethal no matter where on the body you hit. 2) People assume the bat man knows exactly when the knife man is going to attack for real. 3) People assume they can take a bat blow anywhere on the body without staggering the least. 4) People assume the bat man can swing the bat five times a second at full speed without losing balance for as much as a nanosecond. 5) People assume too much about an average guy.
I would personally go for the knife, and keep my distance until the bat man loses his precious balance a short second while he misjudged a swing.
On November 27 2006 04:27 Kochen wrote: There are a lot of misconceptions in this thread
1) People assume a knife stab is lethal no matter where on the body you hit. 2) People assume the bat man knows exactly when the knife man is going to attack for real. 3) People assume they can take a bat blow anywhere on the body without staggering the least. 4) People assume the bat man can swing the bat five times a second at full speed without losing balance for as much as a nanosecond. 5) People assume too much about an average guy.
I would personally go for the knife, and keep my distance until the bat man loses his precious balance a short second while he misjudged a swing.
In a real fight, if you have no training, you'll never get the counter timming right. Timming is the most hard thing to achieve. You can train your strength, execution... But you'll get the timming right, only after alot of training. The bat guy doesn't need timming. The knife guy does. We are talking here about 0.2 / 0.3 seconds timing.
When i was kid, me and my best friend had a argument whether a sap or a knife was a better weapon. Since we didn't have the internet to help us, we decided to settle it using substitute weapons. I got a piece of cheap plywood about 12 inches long, he got a long sock weighted with batteries.
So we square off, sizing each other up. The sock/battery has a longer range, but to do damage it needs to be moving. So i decide to I ducked just inside his swinging range, he swung, i ducked back, then stepped back in, putting my right arm over his neck and shoulder, and drove the plywood into his stomach - where it shattered.
I look back at this and wonder - wtf was i thinking?
btw - i didn't win the argument, he said all it proved is i was better with a weapon.
didn't read any arguments but I say the knife, definitely
with the bat you get one swing. if you swing too hard and put too much behind it, it wouldn't be that hard to dodge it or at least block it well(which isn't going to even break the arms of the most guys).
the knife, however, is deadly in close combat, which is where this fight is going to quickly go.
not to mention that if one of them is good at it, they can throw the knife.
On November 26 2006 12:59 pyrogenetix wrote: id take knife
you need to swing bat really hard at head to fracture skull = kill or swing hard at ribs to break ribs = kill or swing hard at legs and break legs = no mobility and then kill
but knife
stab into the sides of the body, neck, thigh and then twist knife when inside wound = gg no re bleeding
just block his bat swing and break your forearm and then counter stab, he wont be able to retract bat and swing again.
yea w/e rigged toss LOLZ
yea k then i'll like
just block his knife stab and then bleed from my forearm and then counter swing, then he wont be able to stab again.
yes but joo need two hands on bat to swing it hard.
unless you stick the bat up ur ass and do a beyonce ass wiggle and crack pavement... then... no.
the US government for some reason (not at all completely unlikely) made a clone of you.
he (or she... for the female forumers) is an exact copy of you because this time the scientists didnt fuck up and make a retard clone.
you two are going to fight to the death.
would you honestly choose a long piece of blunt wood instead of a sharp piece of metal.
would you honestly want to go 1v1 all in fight club shit vs yourself with a bat, knowing that if you miss, that knife from your clone is going straight into your body somewhere.
knife > bat. Why? because person w/knife can block the bat w/his other arm while the other dude is going to have to take a knife thrust. Knife has one big advantage, one hit one kill. Bat are blunt, you can break a bone but it won't go through. Can you block a knife w/your arm? w/o reeling in pain!? Can you hold the knife while trying to swing your bat? And you must have some slow reaction if you see his bat coming at you and not dodge it I mean, he has to swing that damn thing all you have to do is just thrust your knife or cut his throat.
Knife > bat. If you use the bat, once you are finished killing your opponent, all you can do with it is play baseball or bust up a piñata. I think a knife has more uses after that. Otherwise you just wasted money on a bat. Or you have the chance of returning the knife. It probably won't get damaged if you bought it brand new. A baseball bat probably would get blood stains if you killed a person with it. With the knife, just make sure you keep the stickers on and you should be good. Alot of people use knifes for cooking too, but i'm not sure about baseball bats. You could use it for meat though, but I think they made something specially for hitting meat.
The knife is a more efficient weapon as far as energy expended vs dmg is concerned, but the bat is superior in the amount of energy it can deliver per swing. I would say the bat is more powerful in an ideal fight with ideal strategies, due to length, and first strike. But the outcome depends on the power and endurance of the two combatants.
On November 27 2006 06:54 Chobo_Abe wrote: knife > bat. Why? because person w/knife can block the bat w/his other arm while the other dude is going to have to take a knife thrust. Knife has one big advantage, one hit one kill. Bat are blunt, you can break a bone but it won't go through. Can you block a knife w/your arm? w/o reeling in pain!? Can you hold the knife while trying to swing your bat? And you must have some slow reaction if you see his bat coming at you and not dodge it I mean, he has to swing that damn thing all you have to do is just thrust your knife or cut his throat.
It's fairly hard to kill a guy with a knife that size. You're talking neck or heart, hard to hit places. And to get that close you're going to have to take a blow from the bat on your arm (if you're lucky) and still be fit to aim. I'd say having your arm broken would distract you somewhat. The knife guy always gets hit first with equal skill, so it comes down to how he reacts to being hit with a bat. I think he'd flinch when the bone cracked.
On November 27 2006 06:54 Chobo_Abe wrote: knife > bat. Why? because person w/knife can block the bat w/his other arm while the other dude is going to have to take a knife thrust. Knife has one big advantage, one hit one kill. Bat are blunt, you can break a bone but it won't go through. Can you block a knife w/your arm? w/o reeling in pain!? Can you hold the knife while trying to swing your bat? And you must have some slow reaction if you see his bat coming at you and not dodge it I mean, he has to swing that damn thing all you have to do is just thrust your knife or cut his throat.
It's fairly hard to kill a guy with a knife that size. You're talking neck or heart, hard to hit places. And to get that close you're going to have to take a blow from the bat on your arm (if you're lucky) and still be fit to aim. I'd say having your arm broken would distract you somewhat. The knife guy always gets hit first with equal skill, so it comes down to how he reacts to being hit with a bat. I think he'd flinch when the bone cracked.
And of course you wouldnt flinch after being stabbed in the stomach...
On November 27 2006 20:17 fusionsdf wrote: And of course you wouldnt flinch after being stabbed in the stomach...
You cant stab someone in the stomach when you cant get within 5 feet of them.
I didn't know knife's can reach 5 ft.
Seriously, the bat does have the range advantage and it's not the terrible, clumsy weapon that people think it is. In the hands of an experienced fighter in a wide open space, it's actually quite a devastating and a very lethal weapon.
As I have said before, the knife is still far more practical since it is far, far, far less conspicuous and also substantially easier to carry. On top of that, if the enemy does not know your location or intent, it is easier to make a move quietly and suddenly. In that sense, the knife is preferred. As for just on an open field in broad daylight, give me the bat. You won't get close enough to stab, and the knife shown is not suitable as a throwing weapon (if it were, that would yet again change things).
On November 27 2006 20:17 fusionsdf wrote: And of course you wouldnt flinch after being stabbed in the stomach...
You cant stab someone in the stomach when you cant get within 5 feet of them.
I didn't know knife's can reach 5 ft.
Seriously, the bat does have the range advantage and it's not the terrible, clumsy weapon that people think it is. In the hands of an experienced fighter in a wide open space, it's actually quite a devastating and a very lethal weapon.
As I have said before, the knife is still far more practical since it is far, far, far less conspicuous and also substantially easier to carry. On top of that, if the enemy does not know your location or intent, it is easier to make a move quietly and suddenly. In that sense, the knife is preferred. As for just on an open field in broad daylight, give me the bat. You won't get close enough to stab, and the knife shown is not suitable as a throwing weapon (if it were, that would yet again change things).
Because we all know how many bat-wielders are in jail for murders. If bats were more effective, they would be used.
Also the range of the bat is insufficient, and the swing too slow.
On November 27 2006 06:54 Chobo_Abe wrote: knife > bat. Why? because person w/knife can block the bat w/his other arm while the other dude is going to have to take a knife thrust. Knife has one big advantage, one hit one kill. Bat are blunt, you can break a bone but it won't go through. Can you block a knife w/your arm? w/o reeling in pain!? Can you hold the knife while trying to swing your bat? And you must have some slow reaction if you see his bat coming at you and not dodge it I mean, he has to swing that damn thing all you have to do is just thrust your knife or cut his throat.
so you're saying a knife wound to the arm would cause more reeling in pain than a fully swung bat to the arm breaking your bone? bias much?
On November 27 2006 21:31 fusionsdf wrote: Because we all know how many bat-wielders are in jail for murders. If bats were more effective, they would be used.
Also the range of the bat is insufficient, and the swing too slow.
Ak-47's are more effective than knives. Rocket Propelled Grenade launchers are more effective than knives. Gee, why dont people use these to mug victims on the street? Oh yea thats right, because theyre fuckin inconcealable. Unless you intend to hide a baseball bat up your sleeve the same thing applies. We arent debating what is the most effective weapon for murdering people without their knowledge. We are debating that if given the choice of two weapons, against an armed opponent, where the both of you are engaged in open combat, which of the 2 is the most effective? And the simple answer is a bat, because it prevents the attacker from getting close enough to strike, and can deal unruly levels of damage incapacitating his attacks before ever reaching you.
As for that video, it's just as unrealistic as it tries to present knife disarmament techniques. Nobody walks head first towards a cop in plain view and then suddenly rushes him with a knife, that is just psychopathic randomness. And if someone is going to just randomly stab you on the streets unprovoked and without indication, there isnt shit you can do about it anyway! They also fail to take into account reflex action. Your body is going to instinctively and reflexively pull your arms up for cover, crouch, curl up into a ball, anything besides just stand there and have your head chopped off, especially once the first cut makes contact, much like putting your hand on a hot burner, youre going to fuckin move in a panic. Youre probably still fucked if someone just bursts into a murderous stabbing spree, but with a gun you can probably take the 5-10 random uncoordinated slashes and jabs to the arm and gut until you get your piece out and start shooting back indiscriminately. A bullet doesnt just go in and out like in a movie. One shot anywhere on the body and a softball size amount of flesh is going to get destroyed on the inside, most likely disabling the stabber, whereas you probably manage to come out with the various slice wounds on your body.
Im glad they show the importance of keeping distance and range against your opponent though, so that they cant get close enough to stab you.
On November 27 2006 21:31 fusionsdf wrote: Because we all know how many bat-wielders are in jail for murders. If bats were more effective, they would be used.
Also the range of the bat is insufficient, and the swing too slow.
Ak-47's are more effective than knives. Rocket Propelled Grenade launchers are more effective than knives. Gee, why dont people use these to mug victims on the street? Oh yea thats right, because theyre fuckin inconcealable. Unless you intend to hide a baseball bat up your sleeve the same thing applies. We arent debating what is the most effective weapon for murdering people without their knowledge. We are debating that if given the choice of two weapons, against an armed opponent, where the both of you are engaged in open combat, which of the 2 is the most effective? And the simple answer is a bat, because it prevents the attacker from getting close enough to strike, and can deal unruly levels of damage incapacitating his attacks before ever reaching you.
As for that video, it's just as unrealistic as it tries to present knife disarmament techniques. Nobody walks head first towards a cop in plain view and then suddenly rushes him with a knife, that is just psychopathic randomness. And if someone is going to just randomly stab you on the streets unprovoked and without indication, there isnt shit you can do about it anyway! They also fail to take into account reflex action. Your body is going to instinctively and reflexively pull your arms up for cover, crouch, curl up into a ball, anything besides just stand there and have your head chopped off, especially once the first cut makes contact, much like putting your hand on a hot burner, youre going to fuckin move in a panic. Youre probably still fucked if someone just bursts into a murderous stabbing spree, but with a gun you can probably take the 5-10 random uncoordinated slashes and jabs to the arm and gut until you get your piece out and start shooting back indiscriminately. A bullet doesnt just go in and out like in a movie. One shot anywhere on the body and a softball size amount of flesh is going to get destroyed on the inside, most likely disabling the stabber, whereas you probably manage to come out with the various slice wounds on your body.
Im glad they show the importance of keeping distance and range against your opponent though, so that they cant get close enough to stab you.
What a shitty analogy. People dont use ak-47s and RPGs because they are hard to get. Shotguns are used. Rifles are sometimes used. Handguns and knives are most often used. How often are bats fucking used? I mean, all you have to do is grab a piece of wood, metal or anything relatively light and hard and you now have a bat. Its the most obtainable fucking weapon on the planet and still no one uses it.
The whole concealment arguement is bullshit anyways, and shows that you watch far too many movies. Most murders are unplanned and people dont walk around like fucking crack-squads of ninjas like some shitty knock off martial arts movie. Concealment matters, but in most cases, you are just going to grab the most dangerous thing you can get your hands on. If you grab a bat instead of a knife, you deserve to be darwin'ed
. And if someone is going to just randomly stab you on the streets unprovoked and without indication, there isnt shit you can do about it anyway! They also fail to take into account reflex action. Your body is going to instinctively and reflexively pull your arms up for cover, crouch, curl up into a ball, anything besides just stand there and have your head chopped off, especially once the first cut makes contact, much like putting your hand on a hot burner, youre going to fuckin move in a panic.
dont troll so hard. I doubt even you would make such a ridiculous arguement with a straight face.
Knives are easy as fuck to dodge huh? we just react automatically. But Im supposed to be afraid of a fucking bat? Go watch the video again and stop trolling. If motherfucking cops with specific knife defense training cant do shit against a knife wielder 12 feet away, why do you think you would be all of a sudden invincible waving a bat as fast as you can ( have fun )? Fuck. You might as well just yell at him really loud and hope he runs off. Next just throw your shoe at him okay?
If anyone can react fast enough to make that whole video pointless, then they will react more effectively to a bat. If you think that the video was unrealistic, replace that knife with a bat. Do you still think the batwielder would knock out some cops before getting 9mm to the face?
Youre probably still fucked if someone just bursts into a murderous stabbing spree, but with a gun you can probably take the 5-10 random uncoordinated slashes and jabs to the arm and gut until you get your piece out and start shooting back indiscriminately. A bullet doesnt just go in and out like in a movie. One shot anywhere on the body and a softball size amount of flesh is going to get destroyed on the inside, most likely disabling the stabber, whereas you probably manage to come out with the various slice wounds on your body.
what the hell is wrong with you? You go off on a tangent about guns not being like hollywood, but still cling to your hollywood notion of knives? You really think you could shrug off even one slash? You amaze me beyond all words.
What a shitty analogy. People dont use ak-47s and RPGs because they are hard to get. Shotguns are used. Rifles are sometimes used. Handguns and knives are most often used. How often are bats fucking used? I mean, all you have to do is grab a piece of wood, metal or anything relatively light and hard and you now have a bat. Its the most obtainable fucking weapon on the planet and still no one uses it.
Just because a bat is easy to acquire does not mean it makes any sense to use one to mug someone. Again, why the fuck have you strayed off into this tangent about mugging people when we are talking about a competitive fight? Of course a bat is not all that often used in a mugging because anyone who sees someone walking down the street at night with a baseball bat in their hand is probably gonna walk the other way dipshit. A knife is choice because it is CONCEALABLE. Read again, CONCEALABLE. This is what makes for an effective crime, not the ease of obtainability. Criminals would use a pistol every single time if it were easier to obtain. If knives were impossible to obtain then yes, mother fuckers would use bats, 2x4's with a nail, a stick on the side of the road, their bare hands, whatever they could.
The whole concealment arguement is bullshit anyways, and shows that you watch far too many movies. Most murders are unplanned and people dont walk around like fucking crack-squads of ninjas like some shitty knock off martial arts movie. Concealment matters, but in most cases, you are just going to grab the most dangerous thing you can get your hands on. If you grab a bat instead of a knife, you deserve to be darwin'ed
You make no fucking sense here whatsoever. Again, criminals dont walk up on someone with a knife sticking out in their hand. They pull that shit from behind cover. Not so easy to do with a bat. And again, no one is doubting that a knife is better when it comes to sneaking up on someone and murdering them you dumb fuck, again, totally off topic. And hell the fuck no a piece of wood or a metal pipe is not equivalent to a baseball bat, otherwise the MLB would probably start using them. The baseball bat is a piece of scientifically engineered mechanical usefulness, given decades upon decades of study and research and simulation into how to produce the most power with the lightest frame.
Ill use the table scenario again. Place a baseball bat, a metal pipe, and 2x4 piece of would on the table and ask someone to choose one to beat something to shit. What the fuck do you think theyre going to choose? Maybe the pipe? Because maybe they might be more comfortable with it? Maybe the rectangular piece of wood? Hell no, obviously a bat is infinitely superior to any of these rudimentary objects.
Knives are easy as fuck to dodge huh? we just react automatically. But Im supposed to be afraid of a fucking bat? Go watch the video again and stop trolling. If motherfucking cops with specific knife defense training cant do shit against a knife wielder 12 feet away, why do you think you would be all of a sudden invincible waving a bat as fast as you can ( have fun )? Fuck. You might as well just yell at him really loud and hope he runs off. Next just throw your shoe at him okay?
I didnt say dodge you stupid fuck, i said not just stand there like the video presents. Like most martial arts videos, the victim always just stands perfectly still while he gets his ass dealt with. If the only training these cops receive in knife attacks is to pull their firearm then sweden or whoever these guys are have some pretty shitty cops. I'm pretty sure not too many cops here in the states have lost to a fuckin knife fight. And AGAIN, these videos are demonstrating unprovoked ATTACK! We are debating a planned competitive attack! Pay the fuck attention and stay on course. If the cop knew that someone was gonna fight him with a knife, im sure his gun would already be pulled you fuckin douche. Just like the bat argument, the bat is already pulled out, the fighters facing each other, and THEN they are allowed to attack, to see who wins. I'd beat your ass with a baseball bat too if you had a gun, so long as i just randomly came up to you on the sidewalk and started attacking you with it, like these videos show.
what the hell is wrong with you? You go off on a tangent about guns not being like hollywood, but still cling to your hollywood notion of knives? You really think you could shrug off even one slash? You amaze me beyond all words
You, like all the other knife proponents, assume knife = automatic death, as if nobody has ever survived being stabbed before. A knife isnt a fuckin jedi light-saber. You can be stabbed and walk away from it, and the most likely places you would be stabbed at in an attack are going to be the arms, chest, back, legs, etc. All completely survivable wound areas. Im not saying it's going to be pretty, or that your chances are even good. But again, this is all going back to your loss of focus and arguing about criminal homicide instead of mutual engagement.
for the record, if i had a baseball bat holstered in my belt, and you had a knife hidden behind your back, and at 20 feet you bolted for me, you would win.
Assuming the person wielding the bat has ANY physical strength whatsoever, the guy with the knife is toast. I would consider myself to have average strength for an 18 year old. I can do 50 or so pushups, but considering that I'm also lighter than the average person(I'm only 145 lbs), I'm only about as strong as someone who is 180 or so and can do 20 pushups. I can get enough momentum with a bat with ONE ARM to make sure the guy with the knife is screaming before he even has a chance to hit me. There's no way in hell the knife guy can win this fight.
PJA and etc IDIOTS u obviously never held a knife in your hands try it some day i can slice yr face 3 piece in 1 second same second u swing yr bat at me i would fake a move and just plain jump on you U HAVE TO BE RETARDED NOT TO REALISE THAT U HAVE TO HIT ME WITH HEAVY PART OF THE BAT NOT BELOW THAT u realise that yr chance is 10-15 inch of wood that HAS TO HIT A CRUCIAL SPOT ON MY BODY? CAN U HIT INCOMING OBJECT WITH UNPREDICTABLE MOVEMENT AND SPEED? ARE U SO FUCKING SURE??? AND THIS OBJECT IS GONA TRY TO DODGE A BLOW? AND U MOST LIKELY GOT 1 SWING? YES U CAN SURVIVE KNIFE WOUND BUT SINCE U ENGAGED IN CLOSE COMBAT U ARE DONE U CAN SURVIVE 5 BUT NOT 10 STABS KK? god dumb kids
On November 28 2006 19:57 a-I)rei wrote: PJA and etc IDIOTS u obviously never held a knife in your hands try it some day i can slice yr face 3 piece in 1 second
No you can't.
same second u swing yr bat at me i would fake a move and just plain jump on you
What if bat-man doesn't swing first?
U HAVE TO BE RETARDED NOT TO REALISE THAT U HAVE TO HIT ME WITH HEAVY PART OF THE BAT NOT BELOW THAT u realise that yr chance is 10-15 inch of wood that HAS TO HIT A CRUCIAL SPOT ON MY BODY?
You mean like your fat head? Elbow? Hand? Wrist? Collar bone? Hip?
CAN U HIT INCOMING OBJECT WITH UNPREDICTABLE MOVEMENT AND SPEED? ARE U SO FUCKING SURE??? AND THIS OBJECT IS GONA TRY TO DODGE A BLOW? AND U MOST LIKELY GOT 1 SWING?
Can you do the same with a bat that's likely to be moving faster? Bat-man could also just run and keep his distance.
YES U CAN SURVIVE KNIFE WOUND BUT SINCE U ENGAGED IN CLOSE COMBAT U ARE DONE U CAN SURVIVE 5 BUT NOT 10 STABS KK? god dumb kids
Who said it was close combat? Bat-man has the advantage of range, as long as he keeps his distance knife-dude can't do much and bat-man could start swinging for knife-dude's fingers or something.
Who said it was close combat? Bat-man has the advantage of range, as long as he keeps his distance knife-dude can't do much and bat-man could start swinging for knife-dude's fingers or something.
Then the bat wielder is fighting defensively, and the knife man will eventually win as a result.
Who said it was close combat? Bat-man has the advantage of range, as long as he keeps his distance knife-dude can't do much and bat-man could start swinging for knife-dude's fingers or something.
Then the bat wielder is fighting defensively, and the knife man will eventually win as a result.
Bat-man could wait till knife-dude tries to make a move and crack him in the face and backup. Rinse and repeat.
On November 28 2006 17:18 fusionsdf wrote: The whole concealment arguement is bullshit anyways, and shows that you watch far too many movies. Most murders are unplanned and people dont walk around like fucking crack-squads of ninjas like some shitty knock off martial arts movie. Concealment matters, but in most cases, you are just going to grab the most dangerous thing you can get your hands on. If you grab a bat instead of a knife, you deserve to be darwin'ed
Concealment unimportant? ASDF WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU SMOKING? I've got news: if a crimninal stands out as a criminal, he will get arrested, end of story. Any case where someone is intentionally killed is going to involve one or more criminal, so your whole "going to grab the most dangerous thing" argument goes right out the window. You're the one watching too many movies.
Do you even know why people buy THAT KNIFE? Switch knives and butterfly knives are choice weapons you would choose BECAUSE YOU PLAN ON CONCEILING IT. That's kind of the whole point of them.
If you are going merely for efficiency of the weapon, then rather than getting a butterfly knife, you should invest in one of these:
Or even
In order, those are a Bowie knife, a machete and a 13" dagger, all of which are better killing tools than a puny little butterfly knife.
And if self defense is your goal, then this is the type of knife you will carry...
In other words, a steak knife.
The reason you get a switch knife or butterfly knife is BECAUSE it's an easily concealable weapon.
u know what, we should make a big TL.net get together and have all the ppl who pick bat go up against all the ppl who pick knife. 1v1 of course. and of course to be fair make it so that they are up against ppl of similar size, weight, age etc etc scooby dooby doo.
seriously im in, id slash the next motherfucking douchebag who chooses bat right this instant.
that way all the idiots choosing bat would shut up, AND this thread will come to the correct conclusion, which is that knife > bat.
edit: ok ok let me make this more clearer
how does a bat work? a bat is based on the principle of channeling brute power to break or fracture stuff.
how does a knife work? a knife is used to cut and slice stuff up.
therefore, based on those principles, how would everything all work out.
well lets see. having played baseball for a bit, i have come to realize that after swinging a bat, i need at least 2 seconds to bring it back into a swinging position to deal out my next swing. if i somehow miss my target and my arms are in the "end of swing" position, my whole body is left defenceless to anything (this does not exclude knives).
if you ppl say "lol noob it takes me like 0.3 seconds to retreat bat to attack position again" then well, im guessing your bat is made of beech wood or is suffering seriously from a termite attack, and therefore, will weigh something like three turds of shit.
now since a bat, as we all agreed upon, is based in that the effectiveness of its attacks is based on breaking stuff by brute power, will not be breaking much if it is too light.
on the contrary if it is too heavy, we are back at homebase.
now... think of the knife.
just think. hold that thought in your head. savour it.
a knife has the advantage of being significantly lighter than the bat, thus giving the attacker agility, and the possibility of attacking at a faster rate (than a bat)
it also works on the principle of *cutting* and *slashing*, and by definition, it is to part stuff with ease. if you are cutting your food up, you are not rubbing a blunt piece of metal against your food until it all falls apart and bits of fibre is still clinging onto the original piece.
no... no no no
now lets go back to the battlefield.
one attacker deals damage on the basis of fracturing and breaking. the other on cutting and slashing.
the individual with the bat has one good swing before the individual with the knife will begin to attack, maybe not even being able to get in an attack at all before suffering a knife attack.
but the individual with the knife, he controls the fight. he can rush in, fake, run out, attack multiple times and all because his weapon is much lighter.
even if the individual with the bat is able to block one, two, or maybe even three attack of the knife, how long will he be able to dodge and or block attacks coming at him so fast, and also blocking with something that moves so slowly, because yet again, we are at the dilemma of the bat being too heavy or too light.
so please, think very carefully before you pick up that bat and start swinging.
i would use the knife. the bat has more range but it is heavier causing you do be slower. if the guy using the bat swings and missed then he will be stabbed. he has to make sure that he does hit the guy. and even if he hits the guy he has to make sure he does some serios damage because the guy with a knife still may stab him, it would be hard for him to miss and if he hit the hit would be fatal..
Knife obviously. All you n00bs saying you'd break a bone with a bat - yeah right, lol. Train to lift that bat properly first. Then train to wield it with enough speed. Then train to be precise enough with it. Then die from 10 stab wounds
Yes I think Knife is the correct answer. If the Bat was something easier to wield, like a powerful stick or something, then the Staff would have the advantage, but since the Bat is unwieldy, I think it is too hard to manipulate properly.
Also, with the "jabbing" potential of the Bat, you greatly reduce your range, plus he can block it with the palm of his other hand as well (and if you jab using two hands, he's practically in knife range)
I've been reading this and was thinking "bat was better, bat is better, bat is better"...
...but now that I think about it, in a fight against someone of my own size I'd rather hold the knife. To hit with a bat powerful enough you need a wide swing, sure, if that hits it's target it's pretty much over, but you'd have to be down or just standing there to get hit like that. And I'd rather take a medium-powerful bat hit in the hand than a knife in my torso. I don't mind a broken arm, but I would totally mind being stabbed. Powerful blows are not as easy as they look. It would be nice to see, but in real life I'd rather take the chance of being hit with a bat rather than being stabbed. I can still run with a broken arm, and I can stab with both hands, but I can't run with my guts on the outside, or swing a bat powerful enough with one hand (unless I'd hit his head or something, but that's rather unlikely).
I'm pretty good with a butterfly knife and i know that even regular knives are pretty hard to throw directly into a target let alone a butterfly knife with the handles flipping all over. I'd take a bat vs myself with a butterfly knife. I mean cmon imagine trying to engage yourself in combat with a knife when your other self has a bat, you cant even get in striking range without risking death.
there's no need to imagine what happens in this mu, it has happend countless number of times throughout history.
in the STONEAGE ppl used wooden clubs (sometimes with a stone head attached making it a mace) as the main weapon, but when the art of bronze making was discovered, ppl were able to make short bronze swords of approx 1 feet long. all over the world, new armies equipped with the swords dominated armies with the old weapons, and won battle after battle. soon enough every army used swords, and human kind entered the BRONZEAGE.
(note: although called swords, these early bronze weapons were really just long knives, also bronze is quite soft and bends easily, it's far inferior than morden iron/steel/alloy knives.)
so there... no more arguing pls, bat is a much less effective weapon. hitting an moving opponent critically is similar to hitting a sweet shot, imagine your first time playing baseball, was it easy even to hit the ball? and you only get one chance, if you miss it's gg. too many ppl here are influenced by american culture, iconizing the bat as a badass weapon, no one i know in china would choose the bat
yes because all americans love baseball and think that anything related to it that can be used as a weapon must be the best choice when choosing something to defend yourself. damn those americans for making the bat known as a universal tool of destruction.
Me and a friend purchased some kendo Shinais for some non lethal Ass bashing vs each other.
I've found that it was really difficult to get a clean hit in and if you miss hit its really hard to recover. That was an even fight, now imagine the bat user misses, due to the fact that its harder to hit a guy with a bat either at close range or just offensively, a stab or just starts you to bleeding. The knife is all about the close range, so there is little chance of missing and then in a prolonged fight bleeding drains your energy like fuck.
So bat user needs to keep knife user at range and not over commit to a haymaker blow. Constant lighter bludgeoning will win the fight, unless you were to chance the SMash bros super swing and knock his stock right the fuck out.
Also note: I'd rather be shot than cut to fuck. That Tommy LEe jones movie hunted i think showed me i dont like getting cut.
On November 29 2006 07:33 pyrogenetix wrote: how does a knife work? a knife is used to cut and slice stuff up.
No. If you actually want to kill you will stab with a knife.
Personally I would choose a knife, but there are advantages the bat has, and if the user is smart they would use them:
First of course is range. If you knife people think is going to be easy to close on a bat-man your wrong. The bat-man (provided they know what they are doing) will be punching and kicking as well. If you close on a bat-man they will punch you once you are inside the range of the bat, or kick you to create distance so you can be batted at again. Also, you can use a bat interchangebly between one and two hands to either stop knife attacks after you close, or add more power with two hands. The problem with blocking is especially elevated if you slash like pyrogenetix suggested. Yet another comes from the fact that it's going to be a lot easier for the bat-man to one hit KO you or break a bone severely than it is for knife guy to close and hit a vital area in the initial phases of the fight.
The key to this (and why I would choose knife) is that if you succeed in closing, a stab would permanentally incapacitate an opponent instantly, not to mention the bat becomes near useless once your in close (hence punching and kicking from the bat-man, which in the end isn't effective vs. a knife armed fighter.You'd be better off to drop the bat and fight to disarm the knife guy.
On December 06 2006 08:40 AmirOssanloo wrote: Why do you think you all have to use a bat like how they use it in the sport?
First of all you dont SWING with a bat in a fight, what are you stupid?!? You use it like a spear...Fast hits like a snake attack. You go for the throath, the nose, the knees.
If you now decide to do something else then going for snake attacks. As far as thoes bats I held in my hands, you have a very good grip on the top of the bat, as well as the bottom of it.
Just turn it around! Light side towards enemy = a fast weapon. 1, 2, 3 medium light hits, turn it around, and swing it...Geez, Now I practise and compete in martial arts, bat is the choise...
The End~~
i can kick your ass like a snake
and if you use a bat like a spear its going to get taken away from you...idiot
[QUOTE]On December 06 2006 08:53 AmirOssanloo wrote: Statix....Plz tell me how you are going to take my bat from me, WITH ONE HAND?
Would you throw away your knife to grab my bat, so I then with the already force I have towards you punch you?
Sorry
--- if you cant take a bat when its being used in a stabbing motion you must be a shitty ass martial artist... even a fucking street bum can perry a bat and stab you instantly
Those who choose the knife think to dance around their opponent and take shots when necessary. Real fights may not work like that? They can, even for regular people. They are correct. You know who uses bats as a weapon other than poor people? Dumb people from the ghetto. If they all carried knives they'd be much more dangerous.
The knife would win. You would simply have to temper how you move and not be a dumbass while you fight. If he makes a strike the odds of you being able to dodge are much higher than if you make a strike. You could throw your whole body into a quick lunge if one of his strikes miss, and bounce back rather easily. He cannot do the same unless he is using it to jab. Because he's weilding a cumbersome weapon.
A man cannot charge you after a mistake in a fight with a bat. Go to your garage, pick up your bat and think of how you would fight with it. With a bat you're much slower unless you're a major leaguer. Which we aren't.
I'd choose the knife. The bat could be used well, but the knife can go for the kill within 1 good shot, or 2-3 good ones. Despite the distance advantage, when you rush someone with a knife you can get in there within the bats range if he ever goes for a power swing, taking the brunt of it on your back while you are already in short range and can inflict multiple stab wounds, fast. You could either keep the close range distance, or retreat and wait until he bleeds to death.
If someone wacks you hard with a bat, unless it is in the temple, you're probably not going down.
On December 06 2006 09:09 ToT)Testie( wrote: pro knife
Don't take his post too seriously, Testie is pro-knife more because he would rather his opponent have the bat. This is because he is not worried about bat swings to the head, since his hair provides +3 infantry armor against head-related attacks...
On December 06 2006 09:09 ToT)Testie( wrote: Those who choose the knife think to dance around their opponent and take shots when necessary. Real fights may not work like that? They can, even for regular people. They are correct. You know who uses bats as a weapon other than poor people? Dumb people from the ghetto. If they all carried knives they'd be much more dangerous.
The knife would win. You would simply have to temper how you move and not be a dumbass while you fight. If he makes a strike the odds of you being able to dodge are much higher than if you make a strike. You could throw your whole body into a quick lunge if one of his strikes miss, and bounce back rather easily. He cannot do the same unless he is using it to jab. Because he's weilding a cumbersome weapon.
A man cannot charge you after a mistake in a fight with a bat. Go to your garage, pick up your bat and think of how you would fight with it. With a bat you're much slower unless you're a major leaguer. Which we aren't.
I'd choose the knife. The bat could be used well, but the knife can go for the kill within 1 good shot, or 2-3 good ones. Despite the distance advantage, when you rush someone with a knife you can get in there within the bats range if he ever goes for a power swing, taking the brunt of it on your back while you are already in short range and can inflict multiple stab wounds, fast. You could either keep the close range distance, or retreat and wait until he bleeds to death.
If someone wacks you hard with a bat, unless it is in the temple, you're probably not going down.
Uh bats arent that heavy its not like you cant stop the momentum at all, I dont know how strong some of you are but i dont consider myself very strong but id murder someoen with a baseball bat with ease. And fi you get hit with a bat you are going to be on the floor unconcious if its anywhere in your head, not just your temple. And if you get hit with a bat ANd stab someone, you sure as fuck wont be running away, youll be dead before they are =[. No one in their right mind would rob someone with a knife if they have their bat already out in their hands
Its a tough call id say, if i was to defend myself i would pick the bat since it would be easier for me to handle possibly. But as some said before, you can pretty much see how the guy will swing his bat on you...and if he just randomly swings all the time to change which side he starts swinging from then he will just tire himself out eventually and make him slower id guess. (its not REALLY hard to dodge someone swinging a bat even if he is going pretty offensive towards you)
If he is standing ready to swing and waiting for you to make a move you can possibly just put your knife in the hand which he isnt going to swing on and try to "rush" ( :D ) him and take 1 hit (my guess is you will always take 1 hit ... maybe hard maybe not very hard from the bat onless you make a perfect dodge when he does a big swing in which the bat guy is dead anyways) but then try to go in for a vital stab, because my guess is that if you invest all your power in the swing to try to disable your opponent with a as hard as possible swing then you possibly wont be able to dodge his stab attempt when he gets close ;O
So basically if it was a life and death fight and i have the knife i will try to make him think im a leftie and try to jump around him alittle and when he least expect it change hands with the knife and rush him and pull my left hand up to protect my head aaaand try to stab him in the stommac i guess.
If i was the batguy and it was life and death id try to make sure nomatter if i miss or not with my batswing ill not let him get in range to get a full bodypower stab on me, if he goes very offensive with the knife ill maybe try running alittle and if he goes offguard turn around and smack him in the rib/belly area (aiming higher would make dodging too easy i guess) on his knifeside I think basically if it was a real life and death situation you would never go down unless you prettymuch faint from a batswing and yes breaking your arm would probably make you more than distracted but adrenaline pumping would possibly save your life then ;o
but yea i dont really know how much agility you can actually have with a bat, but ye i do get the feeling that if a knife guy rushes you for real and you choose to swing at him and lets say you break his arm then you pretty much have to ditch the bat cause i seriously doubt you can use it again in that closecombat in which it will be broken arm + knife against 2 arms ;p and if he misses his stab in any way i doubt he can recover in any way cause 2 hands can pretty easily disarm a knifeguy with just holding and using your strength
On December 06 2006 07:09 lykk wrote: ok knife vs bat...
there's no need to imagine what happens in this mu, it has happend countless number of times throughout history.
in the STONEAGE ppl used wooden clubs (sometimes with a stone head attached making it a mace) as the main weapon, but when the art of bronze making was discovered, ppl were able to make short bronze swords of approx 1 feet long. all over the world, new armies equipped with the swords dominated armies with the old weapons, and won battle after battle. soon enough every army used swords, and human kind entered the BRONZEAGE.
(note: although called swords, these early bronze weapons were really just long knives, also bronze is quite soft and bends easily, it's far inferior than morden iron/steel/alloy knives.)
so there... no more arguing pls, bat is a much less effective weapon. hitting an moving opponent critically is similar to hitting a sweet shot, imagine your first time playing baseball, was it easy even to hit the ball? and you only get one chance, if you miss it's gg. too many ppl here are influenced by american culture, iconizing the bat as a badass weapon, no one i know in china would choose the bat
thats the dumbest arguement ever, of course a fucking sword is better than a club lol, its basically just a sharp club.
A LITTLE ASS KNIFE vs a Bat though youd be retarded to try to fight. Lol no one in china would choose a baseball bat? Are you retarded? I guarantee you no average punk is robbing me if its just him with a knife and me with my bat already out. Hed die and id get arrested on murder charges. And contrary to popular belief, not many people even like baseball in america anymore so this has absolutely nothing to do with that, it has to do with common sense. No one in their right mind tries to attack someone who has a baseball bat unless they are some 10 lb skinny geek who cant swing at all. Id take Putter or My wedge vs a knife too, yodu be fucking dead if you got hit with that moreso than a bat
On December 06 2006 09:07 AmirOssanloo wrote: Wow you sure think people stab in slowmotion?
With the speed that the bats comes towards you, there is no way you would grab it (especially (as i say please try to think abit) you hold the knife in your MAIN HAND...right)?
Most likely you will either try to parray with your main hand, or if you had some training you would use your secondary hand to AVOID it, but no...not grab it..
Even if you grab a bat with one hand I can with my both hand and the power from my bat make you out of balance and force you to let go, or i could just while you hold it take my left hand...
put it at the bottom of the bat, with my right hands force swing it towards your face...now this does not even take a split second, and since you are consentrated on the bat during this time, dont tell my "I WOULD STABB YOU"!!!
also, if you grabb my bat, i could just make a kick towards your groin or a puschkick in the stomach....
If you were to put any amount of power into a swing a smart knife fighter would be able to catch you on the back swing by rushing in. By that time your bat would be near ready again, and the knife fighter would stop the swing by blocking your hands on the bat and stabbing you. Since your in mid swing it would be unlikely that you would be able to retaliate with a kick or punch.
If you went for the fast attack approach it would be very possible for the knife guy to grab the bat (NOT remove the bat) and slow your response time enough to get in close and stab you if not land a kick on you.
AAARGH this is difficult because both fighters are equal skill... Bat has range and power advantage, and is defensive in nature. Knife has speed and deadliness advantage, and is aggressive in nature. I have a hard time deciding even though I'm leaning towards knife.
On December 06 2006 08:40 AmirOssanloo wrote: Why do you think you all have to use a bat like how they use it in the sport?
First of all you dont SWING with a bat in a fight, what are you stupid?!? You use it like a spear...Fast hits like a snake attack. You go for the throath, the nose, the knees.
If you now decide to do something else then going for snake attacks. As far as thoes bats I held in my hands, you have a very good grip on the top of the bat, as well as the bottom of it.
Just turn it around! Light side towards enemy = a fast weapon. 1, 2, 3 medium light hits, turn it around, and swing it...Geez, Now I practise and compete in martial arts, bat is the choise...
The End~~
LOL @ Bat like a spear
Bats are like 32+ inches long, a spear? Are you retarded? And yOU DO swing a bat, its like 3-4 lbs at most, its not like you cant stop your swing. Maybe if you havent played baseball you wouldnt choose the bat, but if you have played baseball at all or arent a 10lb skinny nerd youd choose a bat. And switching the bat between hands and trying tos wing one handed is dumb, Then you could die, you wouldnt hit someone even close to hard enough with one hand to bring them down, maybe if you used your dominant hand you could hit them sort of hard but theyd probably still be standing. Anyone who has a baseball bat try going outside and swinging it for a second with 2 hands vs 1 and then take a knife outside and try to wield it, youd get raped by a bat.
and If say i do swing, and i hit you but its not a flush hit and you rush in, im going to kick the shit out of you with a big foot in yoru chest to get you away, it probably wont hurt you but you wont be getting in close on me
are some of you even aware how lethal a butterfly knife is? This just isn't any knife. Half a dozen of my buddies had butterfly knives in school, guns, nightsticks and what not.. Gang/Mafia related shit. I don't associate myself with them anymore, but I have seen more than enough of their dealings and I can say the bat would lose every single time. But, then again these guys know how to wield their weapons while the other guys... lets just say they were big guys with no brain power. This is different from your average Joe, but with enough practice (i.e. bat dude played baseball; butterfly knife loves fooling around with his toy) the knife would take it. Range means shit in this case when you know how to tackle a guy. I'd destroy anyone with a wooden bat anyday.
btw i dont know if anyone has seen "mind, body and kickass moves" serie on discovery but there was one episode with chineese or some asian ( i dont really remember ) specialforces which was specialised with knives and they pretty much owned any guy with a pistol if they got into a 5-6 yard range (or something like that, honestly i dont remember that well) if the gun had its safety on, they were so unbelievably fast at just when they least expected it rush towards closecombat :>
On December 06 2006 09:09 ToT)Testie( wrote: pro knife
Don't take his post too seriously, Testie is pro-knife more because he would rather his opponent have the bat. This is because he is not worried about bat swings to the head, since his hair provides +3 infantry armor against head-related attacks...
On December 06 2006 10:26 NewbSaibot wrote: sweet, now we can argue about which is better, gun or knife. I cant wait to see the retards take that one up.
na was just trying to say that in that episode i saw how fast you can actually rush towards someone to engage closecombat...;p
Since this arguement is for two EQUAL fighters, the bat definitely wins. Hell the bat wins in any fight, assuming the guy who has the bat isn't retarded.
Knife. You seriously underestimate how fast you can close in on someone and how useless a baseball bat is in grappling. You guys think you're gonna have enough time to land a perfect fullpower swing to the cranium against your opponent or what? If you have a knife and the bat guy takes a swing, step back, then lunge. If he doesn't swing, feint and lure the attack and at best he'd only hurt you a bit while you just plunge the knife in his gut for a GG. Wake up for fucks sake.
I say we have a tournament of Knife vs Bat fights, Im sure if we tracked hovz down he could make a thread about it on 2p2 and he might get some takers.
Lets put it this way, If the guy with the knife tries to attack me its over, if i try to attack him he could potentially do some harm, but if he lunges at me hes dead.
I think the Knife would win. If the guy with a baseball bat misses once, he's out of balance and the guy with a knife can easily strike. Also remember that the guy with the knife as one free hand that the batter doesn't have. In a "to death" fight, I would gladly block a baseball bat with my forearm (hense probably breaking it) to strike my opponent with a fatal shot with my knife. If you're quick enough, you can even stop the guy with the baseball bat in mid motion.
On December 06 2006 07:09 lykk wrote: ok knife vs bat...
there's no need to imagine what happens in this mu, it has happend countless number of times throughout history.
in the STONEAGE ppl used wooden clubs (sometimes with a stone head attached making it a mace) as the main weapon, but when the art of bronze making was discovered, ppl were able to make short bronze swords of approx 1 feet long. all over the world, new armies equipped with the swords dominated armies with the old weapons, and won battle after battle. soon enough every army used swords, and human kind entered the BRONZEAGE.
(note: although called swords, these early bronze weapons were really just long knives, also bronze is quite soft and bends easily, it's far inferior than morden iron/steel/alloy knives.)
so there... no more arguing pls, bat is a much less effective weapon. hitting an moving opponent critically is similar to hitting a sweet shot, imagine your first time playing baseball, was it easy even to hit the ball? and you only get one chance, if you miss it's gg. too many ppl here are influenced by american culture, iconizing the bat as a badass weapon, no one i know in china would choose the bat
thats the dumbest arguement ever, of course a fucking sword is better than a club lol, its basically just a sharp club.
A LITTLE ASS KNIFE vs a Bat though youd be retarded to try to fight. Lol no one in china would choose a baseball bat? Are you retarded? I guarantee you no average punk is robbing me if its just him with a knife and me with my bat already out. Hed die and id get arrested on murder charges. And contrary to popular belief, not many people even like baseball in america anymore so this has absolutely nothing to do with that, it has to do with common sense. No one in their right mind tries to attack someone who has a baseball bat unless they are some 10 lb skinny geek who cant swing at all. Id take Putter or My wedge vs a knife too, yodu be fucking dead if you got hit with that moreso than a bat
lmao a bronze sword is a sharp club?? do you know why iron age comes after bronze age? because iron is a much better material than bronze. bronze swords are SHORT because any longer they'll bend and break, plus it's edge is not very sharp, it's not very easy to pierce hides with it, still the bronze sword wielding armies raped bigger club wielding ones ALL OVER THE WORLD. you are just imagining what would happen in the mu, it's all trash talk, the experiment has already been carried out. and yes, it was a fight to the death.
We'll if I had a clone, I'd hold the knife and my clone would hold the bat. + Show Spoiler +
Ok, it's a fight to the death. I (original) throw the knife directly in between my clone's eyes. However, being my clone, it throws the bat in the knife's path. The two collide mightily in mid-air and the bat splits in half. Both the knife and the bat fall to the ground. It is time for hand-to-hand combat! I close in, as does my clone. We stare each other in the eyes, as the sun sets. The moon rises. We are still staring at each other. Although there is no movement, we are battling in our minds, constantly trying to overpower each other. There is no physical opening. As the moon rises up above our heads, my clone strikes! I do a jumping reverse roundhouse kick to his face. Seeing this, my clone stops abruptly and does a back flip while rotating in mid-air and kicks at my face. But I am just as good. I block quickly with my left palm and then kick his right foot in mid air. My clone loses his balance momentarily. However, he manages to balance by doing a one-hand handstand. I sweep to take him down. My clone utilizes my sweeping leg's momentum to stand up-right again. The fight is dead even. We both launch an attack at the same time. Who's going to win?
But seriously, I believe I (knife) would win because I have more maneuverability. If the bat is swung too hard, the motion would be obvious and easy to dodge/block. However, if the bat is swung with as little motion as possible, then it wouldn't have enough strength to do sufficient damage. Since I am agile and have quick reflexes, a knife would suit me better.
Ok after being on the fence I have now been fully converted to bat after testing one in my garage... Anyone who knows what they're doing with a bat could dish out serious one sided ownage to a butterfly knife user.
On December 06 2006 19:25 Dexxus wrote: Ok after being on the fence I have now been fully converted to bat after testing one in my garage... Anyone who knows what they're doing with a bat could dish out serious one sided ownage to a butterfly knife user.
Yes, thats the problem. Everyone here saying knife, even the ones challenging us to pick up a bat and try it, havent even picked up a bat themselves. Theyre just assuming they know how weak it's going to be. My company has a softball team and I posed this question to a couple of them, having a bat readily available they each took hold of it and in about 2 seconds said "the bat, definitely the bat". I could go on and list all the examples they gave, ones much more realistic than here, about how the bat is superior, but it would fall on deaf ears because the anti-bat users have never even picked up a bat, and are so convinced they are right, they never will.
On December 06 2006 19:25 Dexxus wrote: Ok after being on the fence I have now been fully converted to bat after testing one in my garage... Anyone who knows what they're doing with a bat could dish out serious one sided ownage to a butterfly knife user.
what did you hit in your garage? something moving? we are not talking about some zombie as your opponent. and yes bat is better vs zombie as proven in shaun of the dead and diablo2 (50% more damage)
On December 06 2006 07:09 lykk wrote: ok knife vs bat...
there's no need to imagine what happens in this mu, it has happend countless number of times throughout history.
in the STONEAGE ppl used wooden clubs (sometimes with a stone head attached making it a mace) as the main weapon, but when the art of bronze making was discovered, ppl were able to make short bronze swords of approx 1 feet long. all over the world, new armies equipped with the swords dominated armies with the old weapons, and won battle after battle. soon enough every army used swords, and human kind entered the BRONZEAGE.
(note: although called swords, these early bronze weapons were really just long knives, also bronze is quite soft and bends easily, it's far inferior than morden iron/steel/alloy knives.)
so there... no more arguing pls, bat is a much less effective weapon. hitting an moving opponent critically is similar to hitting a sweet shot, imagine your first time playing baseball, was it easy even to hit the ball? and you only get one chance, if you miss it's gg. too many ppl here are influenced by american culture, iconizing the bat as a badass weapon, no one i know in china would choose the bat
thats the dumbest arguement ever, of course a fucking sword is better than a club lol, its basically just a sharp club.
A LITTLE ASS KNIFE vs a Bat though youd be retarded to try to fight. Lol no one in china would choose a baseball bat? Are you retarded? I guarantee you no average punk is robbing me if its just him with a knife and me with my bat already out. Hed die and id get arrested on murder charges. And contrary to popular belief, not many people even like baseball in america anymore so this has absolutely nothing to do with that, it has to do with common sense. No one in their right mind tries to attack someone who has a baseball bat unless they are some 10 lb skinny geek who cant swing at all. Id take Putter or My wedge vs a knife too, yodu be fucking dead if you got hit with that moreso than a bat
lmao a bronze sword is a sharp club?? do you know why iron age comes after bronze age? because iron is a much better material than bronze. bronze swords are SHORT because any longer they'll bend and break, plus it's edge is not very sharp, it's not very easy to pierce hides with it, still the bronze sword wielding armies raped bigger club wielding ones ALL OVER THE WORLD. you are just imagining what would happen in the mu, it's all trash talk, the experiment has already been carried out. and yes, it was a fight to the death.
you are a fucking moron if you think that some bronze age swords apply to a butterfly knife vs a baseball bat at all.
First of all i dont know how their clubs were but a bat ahs a smaller handle and is top heavy so you get more force when you swing it.
Either you A)are an amazing knife user B) are collosus or C) A little skinny nerd with no coordination at all, because if you have ever played baseball and didnts wing like a girl youd be able to kill someoen with a baseball bat
I dont feel like bringing physics into it but basicly with the amount of force that bad gets it can easily DESTROY a persons skull. It could DESTROY a persons forearm. It could SHATTER an entire hand in one swiing. now lets see what a butterfly knife can do. Hm........ stab you? thats about it. I take the large blunt object anyday.
On December 06 2006 07:09 lykk wrote: ok knife vs bat...
there's no need to imagine what happens in this mu, it has happend countless number of times throughout history.
in the STONEAGE ppl used wooden clubs (sometimes with a stone head attached making it a mace) as the main weapon, but when the art of bronze making was discovered, ppl were able to make short bronze swords of approx 1 feet long. all over the world, new armies equipped with the swords dominated armies with the old weapons, and won battle after battle. soon enough every army used swords, and human kind entered the BRONZEAGE.
(note: although called swords, these early bronze weapons were really just long knives, also bronze is quite soft and bends easily, it's far inferior than morden iron/steel/alloy knives.)
so there... no more arguing pls, bat is a much less effective weapon. hitting an moving opponent critically is similar to hitting a sweet shot, imagine your first time playing baseball, was it easy even to hit the ball? and you only get one chance, if you miss it's gg. too many ppl here are influenced by american culture, iconizing the bat as a badass weapon, no one i know in china would choose the bat
thats the dumbest arguement ever, of course a fucking sword is better than a club lol, its basically just a sharp club.
A LITTLE ASS KNIFE vs a Bat though youd be retarded to try to fight. Lol no one in china would choose a baseball bat? Are you retarded? I guarantee you no average punk is robbing me if its just him with a knife and me with my bat already out. Hed die and id get arrested on murder charges. And contrary to popular belief, not many people even like baseball in america anymore so this has absolutely nothing to do with that, it has to do with common sense. No one in their right mind tries to attack someone who has a baseball bat unless they are some 10 lb skinny geek who cant swing at all. Id take Putter or My wedge vs a knife too, yodu be fucking dead if you got hit with that moreso than a bat
lmao a bronze sword is a sharp club?? do you know why iron age comes after bronze age? because iron is a much better material than bronze. bronze swords are SHORT because any longer they'll bend and break, plus it's edge is not very sharp, it's not very easy to pierce hides with it, still the bronze sword wielding armies raped bigger club wielding ones ALL OVER THE WORLD. you are just imagining what would happen in the mu, it's all trash talk, the experiment has already been carried out. and yes, it was a fight to the death.
you are a fucking moron if you think that some bronze age swords apply to a butterfly knife vs a baseball bat at all.
First of all i dont know how their clubs were but a bat ahs a smaller handle and is top heavy so you get more force when you swing it.
Either you A)are an amazing knife user B) are collosus or C) A little skinny nerd with no coordination at all, because if you have ever played baseball and didnts wing like a girl youd be able to kill someoen with a baseball bat
the only moron is the one who gets upset and start calling other morons, and pls don't try so hard explaining how a baseball bat is made and what it looks like. so you think the stonage club was a stick and the bronze sword a katana... fine i'll just knife your guts to shit then
On December 06 2006 19:54 Sadist wrote: a sword and a knife isnt the same thing, and if you think bronze knives/sword apply to a butterfly knife discussion you are retarded.
The people in this thread supporting bat seem to be the people who's posts I tend to read in the forum.
Weird.
NewbSabiot is saying what me and few others have been saying this entire thread and perhaps made better examples. Pick up well built wooden bat and think how you'd ever get near a guy your size wielding it. Seriously. Go to a goddamned sports shop. Even try a aluminum bat, its just as light and stronger.
Jackie chan would win with just a scarf, after all.
You can't take someone down with one swing with a bat unless it connects to their head. It's blunt. You can shatter a bone. But where are you planning on hitting them? It's life or death situation, no ones just gonna curl up because extreme pain wacked them somewhere on the body. Guys in the major leagues have recovery time after they've swung a bat, after all. And their forearms are like tree trunks and they're built to run the second they swing. But you still see them follow through. And it's not about having strength to stop the weight of the bat. It's about having strength to stop the momentum, efficiently and in time.
And once a guy is between your arms, the hell are you going to do with a bat? Hit him on the back of the head at an awkward angle with 1 arm?
The guy with the knife would leave injured, but once you're stabbed twice or more you're very likely going to be a lot worse off from a guy who can then bide his time and retreat until your wounds are too much. Any guy with a knife can be quick and agile. Even a straight and quick lunge with the body is easier & faster to bounce back than with the momentum of swinging a heavy object.
And regardless of how strong you are, do you think you can swing a bat twice by the time someone stabs 3 times?
Kick? As Richard Pryor said, people in life stab awkwardly. You'd probably get your leg cut as he avoids a clumsy kick because you just swung a fucking bat and are already off balance.
Edit: Those that say bat are bad strategically at bw. I'm calling it.
Bat for sure, stabbing someone in a fight doesn't really stop them, might slow em down but with all the adrenaline, doesn't really come to affect them until after (unless you stab the in the eye or something...) but a bat, it will knock the shit out of you and break you bones no matter how pumped you are.
-Major league players put their entire bodies into swing. Pick up a fucking bat and play with it and say you couldn't compromise a person your same size who is trying to get close enough to deliver a debilitating stab.
-How the hell does he get so close? Swing and move, its easy. Doesn't require super knife sliding upslashing bruce lee shit.
-Consider how getting hit with a 10lb medicine ball sets off your balance. Now consider the leverage you get from this bat combined with snappy swing.
-Why does it matter how many times you can swing compared to a stab? This point is moot.
REMEMBER WHAT WAS MENTIONED IN THE FIRST POST, ASSUME YOUR OPPONENT IS YOURSELF.
Yea I don't get this "Dodge the bat swing and then rush with the knife" mentality. I think "Block the bat" is equally wrong. Getting hit anywhere with a bat is going to fuck you up. Basically, as I said 15 pages ago, bat guy would win most likely without taking a hit.
On December 06 2006 20:23 ToT)Testie( wrote: Jackie chan would win with just a scarf, after all.
You can't take someone down with one swing with a bat unless it connects to their head. It's blunt. You can shatter a bone. But where are you planning on hitting them? It's life or death situation, no ones just gonna curl up because extreme pain wacked them somewhere on the body. Guys in the major leagues have recovery time after they've swung a bat, after all. And their forearms are like tree trunks and they're built to run the second they swing. But you still see them follow through. And it's not about having strength to stop the weight of the bat. It's about having strength to stop the momentum, efficiently and in time.
And once a guy is between your arms, the hell are you going to do with a bat? Hit him on the back of the head at an awkward angle with 1 arm?
The guy with the knife would leave injured, but once you're stabbed twice or more you're very likely going to be a lot worse off from a guy who can then bide his time and retreat until your wounds are too much. Any guy with a knife can be quick and agile. Even a straight and quick lunge with the body is easier & faster to bounce back than with the momentum of swinging a heavy object.
And regardless of how strong you are, do you think you can swing a bat twice by the time someone stabs 3 times?
Kick? As Richard Pryor said, people in life stab awkwardly. You'd probably get your leg cut as he avoids a clumsy kick because you just swung a fucking bat and are already off balance.
Edit: Those that say bat are bad strategically at bw. I'm calling it.
Ok since obviously we cant have medical attention you will die from a broken arm too i guess
and if you really think you wont fall over from getting hit in your arm you are retarded. I bet if it was a hockey stick you would say its better than a knife
If I assume my opponent is myself, then the knife would win because I'm a martial artist. I'm quick, agile, and have fast reflexes (on top of above-average strength). If you had some training in fighting, you would pick knife. I can simulate the scenario in my head, and the knife wins. Do you know how strong attacks are in Tae Kwon Do? My punches can break 3 one inch boards and my side kick can break 4 one inch boards. And martial artists block that or take the hit without suffering too much damage. So my answer? Depends on the person.
On November 26 2006 09:39 exalted wrote: I saw this posted on another forum, started discussing with friends, and wanted to post it here to see TL's thoughts:
The conditions are as follows:
-Both fighters have the same body type, same skill set, nobody has a clear advantage over the other. -You cannot use any outside weapons, bite, or do anything other than use the weapons you have. -You can use the weapons in any way you'd like. -It is a fight to the death.
Now which weapon would you take: A single butterfly knife
or a standard Louisville slugger.
Each weapon is to be used against the other weapon.
Please explain your answers.
edit: I don't know how to make a poll
Butterfly knife FTW.
The bat will NOT kill anybody quickly enough. The knife, on the other hand, will dominate. If you get at least a couple of swipes in, the guy bleeds, gets weak, and you stab him at a weak point.
There's only one way to settle this. We have to find two crazies who are roughly the same size to settle it.
We should get the guys from jackass to figure this out. That or we should sign a bill that really, really crazy people are allowed to be used as test subjects for extremely important arguments such as this on television. Nation asks: "What vs what" then they have to have a poll to see if people agree 50/50.
It's got a George Carlin-esque feel to it. Yeah, we should prisoners too.
thanks for not reading anything but the first post. You make me want to smash my skull into my monitor. atleast comment on some of the content currently on the table goshdarnit.
On December 06 2006 20:23 ToT)Testie( wrote: Edit: Those that say bat are bad strategically at bw. I'm calling it.
Those who are strategically good at starcraft have no athleticism. Someone find that clip of boxer throwing a baseball pitch.
Athleticism has little to do with pitching skills. Pitching skills is mostly proper form and practice. Clearly, Boxer has never played much baseball in his life due to soccer and SC.
On December 06 2006 20:52 ToT)Testie( wrote: There's only one way to settle this. We have to find two crazies who are roughly the same size to settle it.
We should get the guys from jackass to figure this out. That or we should sign a bill that really, really crazy people are allowed to be used as test subjects for extremely important arguments such as this on television. Nation asks: "What vs what" then they have to have a poll to see if people agree 50/50.
It's got a George Carlin-esque feel to it. Yeah, we should prisoners too.
That's an awesome idea~ Who knows where we can get two test subjects? It's a scientific experiment after all. I'm sure lots of people would gladly do this.
On December 06 2006 20:57 ToT)Testie( wrote: btw aluminum bat doesn't count Wysp ;p. If you started using an aluminum bat, we get a longer knife.
Like a chef's knife.
i'm just trying to get something to click. wood hurts. a lot.
Ok, well if I had a bat. And I had a knife. I'd kick my bat weilding selfs ass.
If Sammy Sosa had a bat, and Sammy Sosa had a knife... that might be more interesting. I think the average joe, and still even most athletes would rather have a knife. ;p
People, if you had some sort of martial arts / combat training, you'd easily block/parry the bat's attacks. To a trained eye, the bat is SLOW. But if it was two really fat people fighting, then I'd pick the bat too. That would be disgusting, actually...
it's useless trying to argue the bat is just as deadly as the knife, the whole point of the argument is range vs damage, what's the point if you say the bat can dish out as much dmg as the knive with ease and it's longer. yeah bat might have POTENTIAL to dish out the same or even more dmg, but it require much more skill and effort and luck, in a fight to the death, you'll not be hitting a stationary object, and you can't time everything correctly, have you ever been in a fist fight against someone of your own level? heck it's not even easy to land a solid punch, most fights end up to a grappling affair and that's were the knife owns.
On December 06 2006 21:17 lykk wrote: it's useless trying to argue the bat is just as deadly as the knife, the whole point of the argument is range vs damage, what's the point if you say the bat can dish out as much dmg as the knive with ease and it's longer. yeah bat might have POTENTIAL to dish out the same or even more dmg, but it require much more skill and effort and luck, in a fight to the death, you'll not be hitting a stationary object, and you can't time everything correctly, have you ever been in a fist fight against someone of your own level? heck it's not even easy to land a solid punch, most fights end up to a grappling affair and that's were the knife owns.
knife ftfw!!
the whole punching arguement has to do with reach and such, a bat gives you HUGE reach over someone, and youd be able to hit someone hard enough quiet easily to knock them off balance, the only chance they would have is to somehow block your arm before you get the bat going but that shit isnt happening.
it's useless trying to argue the bat is just as deadly as the knife, the whole point of the argument is range vs damage, what's the point if you say the bat can dish out as much dmg as the knive with ease and it's longer. yeah bat might have POTENTIAL to dish out the same or even more dmg, but it require much more skill and effort and luck, in a fight to the death, you'll not be hitting a stationary object, and you can't time everything correctly, have you ever been in a fist fight against someone of your own level? heck it's not even easy to land a solid punch, most fights end up to a grappling affair and that's were the knife owns.
i vote for knife. I agree with sadist's point that a bat blow to the head is deadly. But I think that it isn't so easy executing a square bat blow to the head. think about it this way, a bat swing from start to point of contact is much slower than a punch. not only is it heavy, but it has to travel in an arc. and landing a square punch to the head aint so easy.
I think the main point here is not if a clean blow to the head by a bat hurts. It obviously will be a knockout. But rather how difficult would it be to land a clean blow. If it was me vs. myself, I think I'd have a hard time landing a clean knockout hit with the bat without leaving myself completely exposed in case I miss. There is just too high a probability that the blow is a glancing blow that will surely hurt but won't be the knockout that the batman will need. Now, I was very immobile, then I'd go for the bat, because I'd have a harder time dodging the bat's range. But I consider myself an average guy and me vs myself,, I'd pick the knife.
wtf stop using same argument and btw fighting with weapons and fists are different it wont end up being a grappling affair, grappling only happens when both fighters are unarmed -.-''
On December 06 2006 21:17 lykk wrote: it's useless trying to argue the bat is just as deadly as the knife, the whole point of the argument is range vs damage, what's the point if you say the bat can dish out as much dmg as the knive with ease and it's longer. yeah bat might have POTENTIAL to dish out the same or even more dmg, but it require much more skill and effort and luck, in a fight to the death, you'll not be hitting a stationary object, and you can't time everything correctly, have you ever been in a fist fight against someone of your own level? heck it's not even easy to land a solid punch, most fights end up to a grappling affair and that's were the knife owns.
knife ftfw!!
the whole punching arguement has to do with reach and such, a bat gives you HUGE reach over someone, and youd be able to hit someone hard enough quiet easily to knock them off balance, the only chance they would have is to somehow block your arm before you get the bat going but that shit isnt happening.
Actually, all you have to do is grab the hand that's holding the bat. That would be an instinctive reaction too. And if the person holding the bat tries to minimize the swing to prevent that from happening, the swing lacks power. The problem with the bat lies in it's dependence on requiring lots of time to strike. There's too much action required. It really comes down to whether or not the two people were trained for combat.
you don't need formal training to swing a club and take a step. you control the fight's initiative if your opponent has no attack. zugzwang!
people's arguments are becoming too self reliant. We can't argue about someone else's mind. When a christian claims to have heard god speaking to him there is nothing you can say to refute him but 'you're insane.' This is what its become.
Now, I say we consider this.
if we were to boil this argument down to the most possible man, I believe any person who operates through logic, and not insanity, most conceed the bat is superior. The average person is strong enough to swing a bat, quick enough to wield a knife. But, the bat's superior range causes the pernicious threat of the knife to be irrelevant.
the counter argument to this is 'the bat doesn't stop the knife wielders attack.' so terribly false. thought and reality says that our man will atleast fall down.
Now, what I've said in a few lines: We can't argue when someone claims they've heard god or would kick their own ass with a knife. Inorder for this to be a debate it has to be an external example that can be reasoned with. Therefore I proposed the most average man.
In this situation I feel the bat is superior. Simply through ease of use and initiative.
edit: I just want to add that i hate lykk without creating a new post. its not because he chooses the knife's side either.
edit: I hate this thread so much yet I can't leave it alone. Gargh.
Wysp. If you had some training in weapons combat, you would know that a knife is superior to a bat. And the original question did not ask for the average man, just two men of equal skill level. To which I responded that it depends on their skill level. The knife will win out of the better trained two and the bat will win out of the lesser trained two.
Who bumped this retarded thread..? A better question... I understand the spurt of posts when this thread was first conceived.. But after serious consideration, who is really able to debate this topic? There isn't even enough information to answer the question.
Here's a BW analogy to instantly fall in love with: "Are DT-rushes instant win PvT if both players are equal skill?" - let's assume both players are 1-month-been-playing noobs. A DT-rush is just a BO, it's quite easy to execute, whereas defending against a DT-rush (micro, turret placement, scan timing) is arguably harder. The ease of DT-rush execution tips favor to the P player, even at equal skills. - now let's assume both players are face-stomping Korean gosu. A DT-rush can be easily out-micro'd, tipping the favor to the T player.
So this means you have to consider "how much skill does effective bat-weilding require", "ditto for butterfly knife", "what is the skill level of the combatants (high or low)." This stratifies the results: eg, both combatants have poor aim; bat wins. eg2, both combatants know how to throw butterfly effectively, and do so regularly and are considered professional butterfly-knife-throwers; knife wins.
On December 06 2006 21:35 infinity21 wrote: Wysp. If you had some training in weapons combat, you would know that a knife is superior to a bat. And the original question did not ask for the average man, just two men of equal skill level. To which I responded that it depends on their skill level. The knife will win out of the better trained two and the bat will win out of the lesser trained two.
anyways, I'm off to sleep.
HENCE THE ARGUMENT CANNOT BE RESOLVED. It requires a change in resolution!
btw I'd be glad to fight you. Just let me find my bat...
edit: this is my last post here. I can no longer bear the medium this argument is in.
On December 06 2006 21:37 We Are Here wrote: oh but swords "are" much better than knives because of their range...
i'm talking about these "swords", they are bronze age swords and not much longer than the knife, these "swords" donimated clubs during the the trasition from stone age to bronze age.
um ye altho its impossible to know, i dont understand the argument of swing and move...how are you gonna backpedal after a swing faster than a guy running/attacking you straight forward or whatever. Doing a jumpmotion to one of the sides following the motion of the stab might get you enough time to avoid the first stad perhaps, i dont know...but you still wont have time or balance for another swing anyways and he'll just keep comming..broken arm or not ;p
But yea i guess the question is if the batguy will be able to get in more than 1 swing or not, if he is unable to dodge after a powerful hit then he will be dead...because i doubt you'll ever be able to hit the head with the bat, not only to mention how easy it is to dodge a batswing towards the head.
Also as the bat guy you would probably want to hit from maxrange, hence you will most probably swing when you think you will hit from maxrange or else your swing will come too late if he chooses to randomly charge you then or? and dodging a batswing from max range if you lure your opponent to swing cant be that hard, hence the next batswing will become less powerful and even then you can lure your opponent to do a 2nd swing to make him loose even more balance etc :< i think you get my point.
Donno is it possible for the batguy to aim for the legs? haha :p That would definatly make the knifeguy not able to stab, but i guess it would be too hard to do that :<
But basically just imagining in my head a guy going full speed towards me with a knife and i basically have 1 swing to make him unstable enough for me to be able to manouver myself out of range of his 1st 2nd and 3rd stab attempt seems very hard to me
i'd throw the knife at him-if i miss i'd run around until i manouver him so i can pick up the knife,then run some more and throw the knife again-and so on :D
On December 07 2006 02:34 Dendra wrote: i'd throw the knife at him-if i miss i'd run around until i manouver him so i can pick up the knife,then run some more and throw the knife again-and so on :D
what if he picks the knife after your first failed attempt ? gg no re
True. Using the knife effectively is not easy. Anyone used a bat before to hit something. I don't know if the same goes for knife...
How many of you used a bat before to hit something and how many of you used a knife to stab something? The guy with the knife would hesitate to rush with an all-in forward move against the guy that swings the bat.
The guy with the bat doesn't need precision. He'll just hit in a general area, starting from knees, up to the head. The blow is circular; if it's in range, it will not miss.
The guy with the knife can not go for the head or hands because they are too fast moving targets. It will go for the torso. But to get in range, he needs to avoid the bat swing. And as I said, the determined bat swing has very high changes of sucess.
Any serious fight has an very important emotional part. The system is full of adrenaline. A full bat swing is like a discharge of anger. Hit like a train whatever mother fucker it is in front of you! The guy with the knife must control he's anger to get in range without being hit. And control is hard to achieve of you are not trained in fighting. When you are angry and full of adrenaline, there is no room for logical thoughts, reason. You won't even see the bat coming. It will smash you like a potato.
In a real fight, if you have no training, you'll never get the counter timming right. Timming is the most hard thing to achieve. You can train your strength, execution... But you'll get the timming right, only after alot of training. The bat guy doesn't need timming. The knife guy does. We are talking here about 0.2 / 0.3 seconds timing.
Swinging a bat is time consuming. You would want to hold the bat at it's center and aim for either the lead shoulder or the face for a straight blow with the end of the bat. A well trained knife fighter knows to fight like a boxer, and will most likely try to either dodge to the outside and stab you below the arm during a swing, or will try to get just past you and stab you in the back of the leg rather than go for anything miraculous (or an instant kill).
There are only a few kill shots with a knife, and all are pathetically hard to hit on an unweakened opponent. Those are in the middle of the lower back (talking about the kidney area, or the liver) and both are difficult to hit if the person faces towards you and knows the most basic defensive manuevering (keeping distance, especially when the opponent has a deadly weapon), the neck (same concept), the blood supply running through the groin, the chest between the ribs for a hit on the heart (impossible unless extremely well trained, and even then very difficult).
The general rule in the fight with the knife would require the knife to be held knife blade pointing down in the leading (jab) hand. This enables you to use the knife for quick blocks while moving backwards that will slash at the opponents hands and/or forearms. This also allows you to punch and fight as you would regularly. Against the bat, there are a few problems, however.
The bat will never be an instant kill weapon. First off, if you see your opponent, with both hands on the end of the bat, about to swing, you simply rush right into your opponent, and you can immediately jab the knife into the gut, fight over (this is because a swing takes a very long time, in real world fighting, you don't want to be running around trying to 'dodge' the bat). If, however, you hold the bat around it's center, you are enabled to punch, kick, or otherwise fight without having to have the bat in both hands. In addition, the extremely hard end of the bat can be used to parry your opponent, and can also be used to hit your opponent as if with a very hard fist with about one foot of extra range. A few jabs to the lead shoulder could do as much as breaking the clavicle or dislocating the shoulder, and at a minimum will slow down the opponents jabbing hand. It could even force them to use the opposite hand as their jab hand in the worst case. A jab to the face could quickly break the jaw, and I have heard that is among the most painful experiences. Also, it could break the skin above the eye, resulting in bleeding into the face. Trust me, this is 'fight over'. The major downside to this style is that the jab hand is slowed somewhat. Another, different but perhaps less effective option is bat in back hand, because it only allows you to attack with the bat after you have the opponent off balance. This is difficult.
So, from my perspective, it is a matter of how you want to fight. Slow and methodical, or hope for mistake and quick kill. The knife fighter is waiting for an error, and the bat fighter is attacking with a number of jabs every minute trying to reduce the fighting capabilities of the opponent.
From that perspective, I believe the bat fighter will win. It is harder to defend than to attack.
Also earthservant possibly put it very nice but i dont know if he really knows what he is talking about or if is just making shit up cause that bat technique seemed really weird but might be true.
if that would be the case then maybe id vouch for the bat instead ;O
holding the bat around its center? Are you fucking retarded? I swear someo f you havent held baseball bats before, and it doesnt take a long time to swing a bat, check out a major league game. Pitches coming 90+ mph from 60'6" away and the batter hits it, you can swing a bat in a split second
and if the bat is on the defense its over, by attacking them you could potentially get stabbed, although i still feel you would win, but on the defense the knife person cant do a damn thing
The batters KNOW the pitch is coming. This is why it is illegal in baseball for the pitcher to "fake" a pitch by not throwing the ball -- it would give the pitcher more advantage than he already has. Thus "fakes" of attacking WOULD slow down a batter somewhat as he can't keep swinging recklessly and that extra .6 seconds added for decision making of "is this for real?" could make the difference. Plus, those are major league batters.
On December 07 2006 11:01 Klogon wrote: The batters KNOW the pitch is coming. This is why it is illegal in baseball for the pitcher to "fake" a pitch by not throwing the ball -- it would give the pitcher more advantage than he already has. Thus "fakes" of attacking WOULD slow down a batter somewhat as he can't keep swinging recklessly and that extra .6 seconds added for decision making of "is this for real?" could make the difference. Plus, those are major league batters.
tthem being major league batters has to do with their ability to see the pitch and hand eye coordination along with power.
They see pitches better than other people honestly from experience and such, reaction is part of it, but honestly if you are going by reaction in baseball you will be a horrible hitter.
And ya you are right they cant stop becuase theyd balk the batter.
Anyway, you can swing a bat in less than a second and a person is way bigger than a baseball so i dont see what your point is.
I dont think swinging a bat takes much more time than slashing with the knife. Just get into a batting stance and uncork it, it will fly. The proper swing takes power from rotational motion of the waist, something a knife cut can't take full advantage of. It is not just a stick of wood, the bat is pretty hard. Treat it as a lighter stone club.
The thread involves someone who doesn't have a lot of fighting experience: I believe at the higher echelons of skill, knife gains more and more advantage - this isn't really what the thread is about. I doubt few, if any here, have significant training (especially in the BvK matchup) fighting-wise, and so the decision is really the item that YOU would choose.
I am a knifeman, but I must say there is one big hole in the arguments of a lot of pro-knifers: you cannot "sacrifice your arm" to deliver a winning blow to the head with a knife. I must agree with most of the pro-batters here in that you will reel backwards from simply the force of the blow and the sheer pain, and the batter will be quick to follow up with further blows leading to death.
Therefore most of the knife 'theorycutting' should revolve around getting into critical hit range / forcing the batter to only be able to deliver half-hits (that aren't bone snapping)
The bat is a club type weapon, able to deal moderate amounts of damage with a chance to "stun"*. The knife is a sword type weapon, and can deal large DPS with a chance to "open wounds"**.
Unless the bat user has a viable stunlock build, he will die fast from the "open wounds" modifier on the knife. However, the bat suffers a penalty "To Hit" of 30% because it can be grabbed on to.
Through these calculations, the bat user is at a disadvantage. His build is more of a tanker and is better used in PVE, rather than PVP.
*This modifier stuns the target for 2 seconds, and has a 24% chance to activate on strike***. **This modifier lowers enemy HP by 2% every 3 seconds for a maximum of 30 seconds with a 95% chance to activate on hit****. ***Strike means simply by attacking. ****Hit means to actually land a blow.
That's exaclty the thing... because there is that extra delay in the batter not knowing WHEN to swing, the chances of the knifer getting in close enough for the blow from the bat to be fatal is reduced SIGNIFICANTLY. Plus to put a lot of power into a bat, it does take more time and more recovery time... look at the major league batters and their form, set up, and follow through. Does one seriously think they could swing with that much power every second? No, it's not efficient, so the swing must be slowed down to more of a fighting style... but as you increase the speed of the set up and the follow through, you slowly lose power.
The real debate here is whether the power delivered by the bat will be quick and power enough to get the knife before the knife get into too close.
And personally, I disagree with exalted when he says higher skill = better for knife... I think with higher skill, the bat's range advantage is amplified.
On December 07 2006 11:11 exalted wrote: To add a few thoughts to the thread:
The thread involves someone who doesn't have a lot of fighting experience: I believe at the higher echelons of skill, knife gains more and more advantage - this isn't really what the thread is about. I doubt few, if any here, have significant training (especially in the BvK matchup) fighting-wise, and so the decision is really the item that YOU would choose.
I am a knifeman, but I must say there is one big hole in the arguments of a lot of pro-knifers: you cannot "sacrifice your arm" to deliver a winning blow to the head with a knife. I must agree with most of the pro-batters here in that you will reel backwards from simply the force of the blow and the sheer pain, and the batter will be quick to follow up with further blows leading to death.
Therefore most of the knife 'theorycutting' should revolve around getting into critical hit range / forcing the batter to only be able to deliver half-hits (that aren't bone snapping)
That totally depends on how big of a swing you allow the batter to make, bigger/harder swing = easier to dodge and the closer you get before you get hit by the bat the less damage it will do and the less time he will have to adept to the recoil it has.
I dont know if you will "fall over from pain and force" from a batblow to your forearm/shoulder or whatever, since i havent experienced anything near that myself so argueing over that would be impossible unless someone has had experience with it
that is a slow motion of a batting swing, notice theres very little cranking up, and you arent going to dodge a baseball bat im sorry, youd have to jump back to dodge or something, but you sure as fuck wont duck and dodge.
This thread is still going on? Jesus. lol to all those yelling, 'throw the frickin' knife.' A butterfly knife isn't a throwing knife, so don't even bother arguing. It is a close range/hunting knife that can slice n' dice anything.
so you are gonna kick him after you swing, id like for you to pick up a bat swing it with the force you want to hit the other guy with and then try to kick someone comming for you
Thing is, who really controls the fight? I say the knifer. They don't tire half as easily and the person with the bat WANTS to keep you at a distance. They will end up swinging out of sheer fear if you play it right. They can't rush you after all. You can rush them at any moment they make a mistake.
Go to your kitchen, act like a crazy person, grab a big kitchen knife and make a few stabbing motions. If anyone catches you, assure them you're not planning anything. Or.. assure them of nothing, your preference really. Anyway, then go pick up your bat, and swing it.
Swing the bat constantly for 30 seconds. Stab with the knife constantly for 30 seconds. A lot more stabs than swings.
Then, plant your feet like any athlete would when you swing as well. If you don't plant and power up, it's not doing enough damage to take you out.
Then, take the knife. Lunge with it a few times. Different angles, realize how versatile it is. And the speed with which it moves. A bat does not add such an incredible amount of distance that it cannot be closed within a few steps.
Say they fake stab at you. Or they make some feints. The person with the bat swings, to keep the knife at a distance. Knowing 2/3rds to 80% of the length of his weapon is useless when hitting someone.
Any kick after a bat swing will at best be off balance, and have little real power behind it and will only make the bat user more awkward at fighting.
You step into that swing after falling back, giving them time to recoil but they swing again. However you'd be within the bats range. It wouldn't knock you out or kill you if you got hit with the middle of the bat, only the end. You must connect with the end of the bat, and even then... I can't see someone taking a single body shot with a bat and not surviving. Pain means very little when your goal is to kill the other person not hurt them and make them say "ow ow I give up"
If they swing, you can jump in 2 steps in which it'd be a close range fight and you'd end up with nothing more than a bruise because you couldn't connect with the end of the bat. 1. You can't reverse the momentum after it's reached the halfway point, and if you do you're already fucked because your weapon will do no damage what so ever because of the awkward control you have. 2. If you complete the swing, it will take you some seconds to swing again.
The slow motion video you showed only proves the knifes case. Same with the other video. All these men have time where they plant, and get ready. After swinging once it will take them time to swing again. You cannot swing when one is in close range.
People won't fly away when they are hit with anything but the very end of the bat. There'll be a "thud" as it connects with a large object that weighs a lot. Go hit something heavy yet planted to the ground fairly sturdily (as we are) with a baseball bat.
Athletic or not, it is due to momentum and the motions that bats will always take longer to swing. And to have enough power to do damage, you need to power that swing up. You can't just keep the knife user at bay by holding it like a sword, and poking at him. It's designed, and weighed for it's purpose, swinging from one side to another. Most other motions are awkward.
As I said, bat users suck at strategy. And athletic or not these users have the same type of build. An athletic person could close distance just as easily with the knife, if not a bit faster. And a full extension of your arm, and a stab is far quicker than a wide swing with an object. And athletic may mean a blunt weapon may do even less damage as vitals are padded by muscles which may end up damaged, but have done their job protecting vital areas. A knife tears muscles easily, and quickly.
god this thread is awful. so many ridiculous theories, reminds me of little boys playing with plastic army men and arguing over who 'shot' each other first.
On December 07 2006 12:16 ToT)Testie( wrote: Thing is, who really controls the fight? I say the knifer.
Swing the bat constantly for 30 seconds. Stab with the knife constantly for 30 seconds. A lot more stabs than swings.
Say they fake stab at you. Or they make some feints.
You step into that swing after falling back, giving them time to recoil but they swing again. However you'd be within the bats range. It wouldn't knock you out or kill you if you got hit with the middle of the bat, only the end. You must connect with the end of the bat, and even then... I can't see someone taking a single body shot with a bat and not surviving. Pain means very little when your goal is to kill the other person not hurt them and make them say "ow ow I give up"
If they swing, you can jump in 2 steps in which it'd be a close range fight and you'd end up with nothing more than a bruise because you couldn't connect with the end of the bat. 1. You can't reverse the momentum after it's reached the halfway point, and if you do you're already fucked because your weapon will do no damage what so ever because of the awkward control you have. 2. If you complete the swing, it will take you some seconds to swing again.
As I said, bat users suck at strategy.
You talk about control, about fake stabs, feints, momentum, timing, strategy ... NONE of this happends into a REAL fight. Most of the real, determined, anger-dominated fights are 4-5 seconds one-charge events. When your system is full of adrenaline all the bullshit about feints..., fake stabs..., control... is long gone. Only the animalic instincts / reflexes remain. The knife user needs precision, emotions control, uber timing. If you aren't trained in martial arts (as the hypothesis for this thread was) you will not have strike precision, timing or control.
The bat user does not need precision. He will hit in a general area, starting from knees, up to the head. He doesn't need control. It will just hit you as hard as he can.
So I think an untrained bat user will beat an untrained knife user.
On December 07 2006 12:16 ToT)Testie( wrote: Thing is, who really controls the fight? I say the knifer.
Swing the bat constantly for 30 seconds. Stab with the knife constantly for 30 seconds. A lot more stabs than swings.
Say they fake stab at you. Or they make some feints.
You step into that swing after falling back, giving them time to recoil but they swing again. However you'd be within the bats range. It wouldn't knock you out or kill you if you got hit with the middle of the bat, only the end. You must connect with the end of the bat, and even then... I can't see someone taking a single body shot with a bat and not surviving. Pain means very little when your goal is to kill the other person not hurt them and make them say "ow ow I give up"
If they swing, you can jump in 2 steps in which it'd be a close range fight and you'd end up with nothing more than a bruise because you couldn't connect with the end of the bat. 1. You can't reverse the momentum after it's reached the halfway point, and if you do you're already fucked because your weapon will do no damage what so ever because of the awkward control you have. 2. If you complete the swing, it will take you some seconds to swing again.
As I said, bat users suck at strategy.
You talk about control, about fake stabs, feints, momentum, timing, strategy ... NONE of this happends into a REAL fight. Most of the real, determined, anger-dominated fights are 4-5 seconds one-charge events. When your system is full of adrenaline all the bullshit about feints..., fake stabs..., control... is long gone. Only the animalic instincts / reflexes remain. The knife user needs precision, emotions control, uber timing. If you aren't trained in martial arts (as the hypothesis for this thread was) you will not have strike precision, timing or control.
The bat user does not need precision. He will hit in a general area, starting from knees, up to the head. He doesn't need control. It will just hit you as hard as he can.
So I think an untrained bat user will beat an untrained knife user.
The best strategy with a knife against a bat is to run into the guy, like crashing bullrush style and plant it and yank.
So it's 1 swing and hurt the guy enough to win the grapple that ensues unless you manage to stop him dead cold (not likely), and avoid getting stabbed. But of course if it's just a stab and not so much more and you managed to break one of his arms you wouldn't be in such a bad situation perhaps. 2 arms against 1 in wrestling, you get the knife or lock his arm and rip out his eyes etc..
A fight to the death is way different from a streetfight, so I think this one can't easily be determined.
I still lean toward the knife though, but I reserve myself and vote:
This isn't an anger dominated, testostrone driven fight. Normal street fights become fights because of uncontrolled anger. This is different, so both parties should be able to think with a clearer mind. Adrenaline may be pumping, but you can still think.
On December 07 2006 12:16 ToT)Testie( wrote: Thing is, who really controls the fight? I say the knifer.
Swing the bat constantly for 30 seconds. Stab with the knife constantly for 30 seconds. A lot more stabs than swings.
Say they fake stab at you. Or they make some feints.
You step into that swing after falling back, giving them time to recoil but they swing again. However you'd be within the bats range. It wouldn't knock you out or kill you if you got hit with the middle of the bat, only the end. You must connect with the end of the bat, and even then... I can't see someone taking a single body shot with a bat and not surviving. Pain means very little when your goal is to kill the other person not hurt them and make them say "ow ow I give up"
If they swing, you can jump in 2 steps in which it'd be a close range fight and you'd end up with nothing more than a bruise because you couldn't connect with the end of the bat. 1. You can't reverse the momentum after it's reached the halfway point, and if you do you're already fucked because your weapon will do no damage what so ever because of the awkward control you have. 2. If you complete the swing, it will take you some seconds to swing again.
As I said, bat users suck at strategy.
You talk about control, about fake stabs, feints, momentum, timing, strategy ... NONE of this happends into a REAL fight. Most of the real, determined, anger-dominated fights are 4-5 seconds one-charge events. When your system is full of adrenaline all the bullshit about feints..., fake stabs..., control... is long gone. Only the animalic instincts / reflexes remain. The knife user needs precision, emotions control, uber timing. If you aren't trained in martial arts (as the hypothesis for this thread was) you will not have strike precision, timing or control.
The bat user does not need precision. He will hit in a general area, starting from knees, up to the head. He doesn't need control. It will just hit you as hard as he can.
So I think an untrained bat user will beat an untrained knife user.
Nowhere in the original post does it say the people were untrained for combat. It simply states "-Both fighters have the same body type, same skill set, nobody has a clear advantage over the other." If you were ever trained to fight, then you would know that the first thing you learn is to keep cool and not letting your emotions take over. In that cool mental state, the knife has a clear advantage over the bat. The knife user will dance around, inviting the bat user to swing and miss. It's very hard for a bat user to exploit an opening in the knife user but not so hard the other way around. The knife user can simply frustrate and tire out the bat user before moving in for the kill. Imagine the knife user as a boxer and the bat user as a baseball player. The boxer has a much easier time controlling timing and distance compared to the bat user.
On November 26 2006 09:39 exalted wrote: -You cannot use any outside weapons, bite, or do anything other than use the weapons you have.
Oh I didn't remember this part... Ok, if you can't kick then GG bat.
On December 07 2006 14:23 fusionsdf wrote: Wow. Have you ever been in a fight? Let alone a fight with objects? You dont kick
You never kick. Not because its unmanly. Or because it looks stupid.
You dont kick in a fight because you will get your ass kicked for even attempting it.
The arguement for ninja-swinging the bat was more realistic.
WTF... You can EASILY take someones ankle out with a kick. IDK what kind of fighting you do but it sounds like "macho-jock" style where your up in someones face. It doesn't take that much skill to kick someone, and the kick I was referring to was more of a push to create distance.
I remember my friend who took martial arts telling me about how they teach you to fight someone with a baseball bat, since it is a common item. He was taught to quickly step into the swing because if you get hit with the end of the back, you're fucked, but if you get hit with the middle of the bat, it's not so bad. They taught him to take the hit in the ribs as far into the handle of the bat as possible, then to bring your arm down over the bat to pin it there. It will hurt, but if you have a knife in the other hand, its GG. No idea how viable that all is, but its what I remember.
On December 07 2006 12:16 ToT)Testie( wrote: Thing is, who really controls the fight? I say the knifer. They don\'t tire half as easily and the person with the bat WANTS to keep you at a distance. They will end up swinging out of sheer fear if you play it right. They can\'t rush you after all. You can rush them at any moment they make a mistake.
Who controls the fight ? maybe not the guy with the bat but HELL NOT the guy with the knife! Try to \'\'rush\'\' me with you\'re knife and you\'ll see that the closer you\'ll get will be 1.5 meters before your body collapses on the ground.
Go to your kitchen, act like a crazy person, grab a big kitchen knife and make a few stabbing motions. If anyone catches you, assure them you\'re not planning anything. Or.. assure them of nothing, your preference really. Anyway, then go pick up your bat, and swing it.
Swing the bat constantly for 30 seconds. Stab with the knife constantly for 30 seconds. A lot more stabs than swings.
This fight won\'t be 30 sec of missed stikes.... one oponent will make ONE good move and it will be over.
Then, plant your feet like any athlete would when you swing as well. If you don\'t plant and power up, it\'s not doing enough damage to take you out.
Not enough damage to take you out? I played baseball for 10 years and I can assure you that unless I\'m standing on one foot dancing like a fuck* clown my swing will be powerfull enough to take you out in 1 shot.
Then, take the knife. Lunge with it a few times. Different angles, realize how versatile it is. And the speed with which it moves. A bat does not add such an incredible amount of distance that it cannot be closed within a few steps.
True. The knife is very versatile. But the range of the bat makes all the difference. It adds at least one meter of range wich is enough to get away from any knife strikes.
Say they fake stab at you. Or they make some feints. The person with the bat swings, to keep the knife at a distance. Knowing 2/3rds to 80% of the length of his weapon is useless when hitting someone.
You can\'t fake an attack that easily without receiving an unforgivable strike. The 1.5 meter you have to cross is long enough for your opponent to time his swing and hit you with a critical hit.
Any kick after a bat swing will at best be off balance, and have little real power behind it and will only make the bat user more awkward at fighting.
Assuming you survived the swing....wich I doubt will ever happen
You step into that swing after falling back, giving them time to recoil but they swing again. However you\'d be within the bats range. It wouldn\'t knock you out or kill you if you got hit with the middle of the bat, only the end.
Have you ever hold a bat in your hand? Even the middle of the bat would crush you down. And unless you have 0 aiming skills, hitting a target as large and slow as a human body with the tip of the bat is ridiculously easy... Just think of it a little bit... A single diagonal blow aiming from your left shoulder to the right side of your hip would be the safest strike assuming that you highly underestimate your aiming potential...And even that easy stike would be powerfull.
You must connect with the end of the bat, and even then... I can\'t see someone taking a single body shot with a bat and not surviving. Pain means very little when your goal is to kill the other person not hurt them and make them say \"ow ow I give up\"
Ok you seriously underestimate the power of the bat... I can\'t see someone taking a single body shot with a bat and surviving it. Oh yeah you\'ll survive it but you\'ll be on the ground totally defenseless.
If they swing, you can jump in 2 steps in which it\'d be a close range fight and you\'d end up with nothing more than a bruise because you couldn\'t connect with the end of the bat. 1. You can\'t reverse the momentum after it\'s reached the halfway point, and if you do you\'re already fucked because your weapon will do no damage what so ever because of the awkward control you have. 2. If you complete the swing, it will take you some seconds to swing again.
You won\'t have time to do your 2-3 feint steps... you won\'t have time to take advantage of a missed bat strike. Even if he misses his strike ( I still dont see how it would be possible) he can jump backward or simply hit you with the other side of the bat or even take another full swing.. I mean hold a bat in your hand and swing... it takes fractions of a second to recover from a missed swing.
The slow motion video you showed only proves the knifes case. Same with the other video. All these men have time where they plant, and get ready. After swinging once it will take them time to swing again. You cannot swing when one is in close range.
Again... assuming he manages to get in close range... I mean ...your not playing broodwar and microing some shit out of a ling ......its real life you\'re trying to approcha someone who as a bat in his hands...
Athletic or not, it is due to momentum and the motions that bats will always take longer to swing. And to have enough power to do damage, you need to power that swing up. You can\'t just keep the knife user at bay by holding it like a sword, and poking at him. It\'s designed, and weighed for it\'s purpose, swinging from one side to another. Most other motions are awkward.
Yes you can simply keep the knife user at bay by holding it like a sword, and poking at him. YOu can simply walk towards him with the bat aiming upward above your shoulder and nobody will be able to approach you. the bat dont weights a fuck*n ton... its a baseball bat it is made to be quick.
As I said, bat users suck at strategy.
Leave starcraft please.....
And athletic or not these users have the same type of build. An athletic person could close distance just as easily with the knife, if not a bit faster. And a full extension of your arm, and a stab is far quicker than a wide swing with an object.
You talk like if a swing takes 3 seconds to perform... it takes AT MOST 0.5 seconds... You dont need to hold the bat far behind you in order to have enough power to take your opponent in on shot.
And athletic may mean a blunt weapon may do even less damage as vitals are padded by muscles which may end up damaged, but have done their job protecting vital areas. A knife tears muscles easily, and quickly.
padded by muscles..... lol..... You\'re getting hit by a f***** club man.......
On December 07 2006 17:08 rockstar101 wrote: I remember my friend who took martial arts telling me about how they teach you to fight someone with a baseball bat, since it is a common item. He was taught to quickly step into the swing because if you get hit with the end of the back, you're fucked, but if you get hit with the middle of the bat, it's not so bad. They taught him to take the hit in the ribs as far into the handle of the bat as possible, then to bring your arm down over the bat to pin it there. It will hurt, but if you have a knife in the other hand, its GG. No idea how viable that all is, but its what I remember.
I've been hit with plenty of wooden baseball bats before and it doesn't fucking hurt. Getting stabbed is a totally different ballgame. Get that through your thick skulls. instead of theorycrafting how about you kids try it first. Then come back here and tell your 'wild' stories.
On December 08 2006 08:23 Sun wrote: I've been hit with plenty of wooden baseball bats before and it doesn't fucking hurt. Getting stabbed is a totally different ballgame. Get that through your thick skulls. instead of theorycrafting how about you kids try it first. Then come back here and tell your 'wild' stories.
the bat is not even desgined as a weapon, if there were many kinds of weapons with the same length/weight as the bat. bat will be near the bottom of the pile. it's round shape deals the least damage possible. as it creates the least pressure. the only thing worse i can think of is a stick but even that's more versital, u can poke, hold it in the middle, and spin
On December 08 2006 08:23 Sun wrote: I've been hit with plenty of wooden baseball bats before and it doesn't fucking hurt. Getting stabbed is a totally different ballgame. Get that through your thick skulls. instead of theorycrafting how about you kids try it first. Then come back here and tell your 'wild' stories.
P.S. This thread will so hit 50 pages -_-;;
Of course getting hit by a bat over and over doesn't hurt. Eventually what little brain matter remains in your skull is knocked loose and comes out your ears and nose. You're basically an undead now, but with more poor reasoning skills.
who's willing to bet that most of the knife choosers are scrawny assed kids? and ya i mean most, not ALL so i dont get some fat kid complaining he'd go with the knife
edit: just look at the number of replies from china, or asian kids that were malnutritioned from asia posting but live in US or Canada, there, you have your answer. (i do not endorse racism, this is simply stereotyping in good fun and humor)
On December 20 2006 14:54 Way wrote: who's willing to bet that most of the knife choosers are scrawny assed kids? and ya i mean most, not ALL so i dont get some fat kid complaining he'd go with the knife
edit: just look at the number of replies from china, or asian kids that were malnutritioned from asia posting but live in US or Canada, there, you have your answer. (i do not endorse racism, this is simply stereotyping in good fun and humor)
On December 20 2006 14:54 Way wrote: who's willing to bet that most of the knife choosers are scrawny assed kids? and ya i mean most, not ALL so i dont get some fat kid complaining he'd go with the knife
edit: just look at the number of replies from china, or asian kids that were malnutritioned from asia posting but live in US or Canada, there, you have your answer. (i do not endorse racism, this is simply stereotyping in good fun and humor)
On December 20 2006 14:54 Way wrote: who's willing to bet that most of the knife choosers are scrawny assed kids? and ya i mean most, not ALL so i dont get some fat kid complaining he'd go with the knife
edit: just look at the number of replies from china, or asian kids that were malnutritioned from asia posting but live in US or Canada, there, you have your answer. (i do not endorse racism, this is simply stereotyping in good fun and humor)
More truth to this than you guys credit him. Although horrible stereotype thou, in a "manner" way.
EPT![[image loading]](http://img.alibaba.com/photo/50389225/Butterfly_Knife.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://live.universal-collectibles.com/images_dealer02/67038-1.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.mediabistro.com/fishbowlny/original/sword.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.abfab.co.uk/Thumbnails/BNCC266.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.hayesandassociates.co.nz/Knives/Meula%20Bowie%201.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.cosmoknives.com/swords/machete.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://www.postmortemstudiorental.com/images/Instruments/13%20inch%20dagger.JPG)
![[image loading]](http://members.sparedollar.com/estrella/HAKEKNIFE.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/1157/3984/400/510635/pic05021.jpg)
![[image loading]](http://img74.imageshack.us/img74/8495/bronzeswordsrl3.jpg)
we are talking about some one with average coordination
