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Japan's economy and Abenomics failing - Page 4

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Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
September 16 2014 21:06 GMT
#61
On September 16 2014 01:29 coverpunch wrote:
Are you trying to rally the "StarCraft is dead" crowd to a new cause? Rumors about Japan's demise have been overblown for a very long time now. It's not to say they don't have problems, but the economy is not in "free fall".

It's hilarious how the OP juxtaposes bad GDP news as proof with "GDP numbers are all fake anyways". And do you have a source showing how quality of life in Japan is going down?


lmao
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9858 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-16 21:08:52
September 16 2014 21:08 GMT
#62
Japan has an aging population for 2 reasons:

1) Just like everywhere else in the western world, low fertility rates, Japan is not special in this regard compared to anyone else: http://kff.org/global-indicator/total-fertility-rate/

2) The lower the metabolism of an organism, the longer it will live. As in if you starve yourself you will live longer, there is lots of research in this field. In simple terms it is due to faster metabolism --> faster cell division, and faster cell division mean you start snipping useful genes in DNA quicker, which of course means quicker death. Japan has a very low calorie diet, only 3.5% percent of Japanese population are Obese (vs 27.7% in USA)... And Japan is also a country where physical activity is not very stressed, which can quite effectively show how they little they eat calorie wise. Due to the biology stated above, they live longer.

This is 90%+ of the reason for the aging population, no buts, I have studied this topic extensively, and from what I can tell it's almost a fact in the scientific world. There are minor deviation in healthcare systems, primary food that is eaten (rice vs bread vs potatoes), amounts of meat eaten, etc. But at the end of the day, the main cause is point #2, and that can be attributed to several factors like culture/history, geography (fish vs lots of land), etc.

In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Sub40APM
Profile Joined August 2010
6336 Posts
September 16 2014 21:51 GMT
#63
On September 16 2014 17:44 AutoEngineer wrote:


Are you saying that 6 million young people will not be able to do basic manufacturing labor like fitting doors, following basic instructions and working at mostly labor intensive jobs

This is silly, if Korea wants cheap young labor why not join with Egypt. 85 million! Mostly youths!


Think about it for a second. South Korea will be able to have the cheapest labor in the world. Cheaper than China, Vietnam and Thailand.

Yes. If the North Koreans magically turn into South Koreans, including a sudden transfer of knowledge then great for everyone...except all the South Korean labor who will take a massive hit to their personal income, causing a downward shift in consumption.


oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
September 17 2014 00:12 GMT
#64
argument for reunification has to come from the benefit north koreans would receive. otherwise it's a clear burden on sk.

i mean unless you are running some sort of labor intensive business over there. but some SK companies already run shops in north korea.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
AutoEngineer
Profile Joined June 2014
United States97 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 08:03:02
September 17 2014 07:58 GMT
#65
On September 17 2014 06:51 Sub40APM wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 16 2014 17:44 AutoEngineer wrote:


Are you saying that 6 million young people will not be able to do basic manufacturing labor like fitting doors, following basic instructions and working at mostly labor intensive jobs

This is silly, if Korea wants cheap young labor why not join with Egypt. 85 million! Mostly youths!

Show nested quote +

Think about it for a second. South Korea will be able to have the cheapest labor in the world. Cheaper than China, Vietnam and Thailand.

Yes. If the North Koreans magically turn into South Koreans, including a sudden transfer of knowledge then great for everyone...except all the South Korean labor who will take a massive hit to their personal income, causing a downward shift in consumption.




Gosh, I'm not sure why I am trying to argue with someone who doesn't understand simple economics.

Transferring all manufacturing plants to Egypt (or Africa) will be more expensive for Korea considering shipping all the materials to Africa and then exporting the finished goods back to the USA and China (the 2 biggest markets for Korean products) compared to manufacturing them in North Korea.

Do you understand?

In other news:

Government to lower economic assessment

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/09/17/business/economy-business/government-lower-economic-assessment/#.VBk_lfmSxB0

Domestic consumption in Japan remained sluggish in August due to "bad weather".

When will these economists be finally convinced that raising the tax will hurt consumption for the long term?
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 08:06:21
September 17 2014 08:05 GMT
#66
On September 17 2014 06:08 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Japan has an aging population for 2 reasons:

1) Just like everywhere else in the western world, low fertility rates, Japan is not special in this regard compared to anyone else: http://kff.org/global-indicator/total-fertility-rate/

2) The lower the metabolism of an organism, the longer it will live. As in if you starve yourself you will live longer, there is lots of research in this field. In simple terms it is due to faster metabolism --> faster cell division, and faster cell division mean you start snipping useful genes in DNA quicker, which of course means quicker death. Japan has a very low calorie diet, only 3.5% percent of Japanese population are Obese (vs 27.7% in USA)... And Japan is also a country where physical activity is not very stressed, which can quite effectively show how they little they eat calorie wise. Due to the biology stated above, they live longer.

This is 90%+ of the reason for the aging population, no buts, I have studied this topic extensively, and from what I can tell it's almost a fact in the scientific world. There are minor deviation in healthcare systems, primary food that is eaten (rice vs bread vs potatoes), amounts of meat eaten, etc. But at the end of the day, the main cause is point #2, and that can be attributed to several factors like culture/history, geography (fish vs lots of land), etc.



Somatic Theory of Gene Mutation is...not entirely implausible (though far from fact...hell, my geriatric rehab book lists at least 12 theories of aging...), but the part about physical activity vis a vis caloric intake is patently false. All the evidence points towards exercise (and yes, that means a higher caloric intake) is a major indicator for not only longevity of life (as in you will live longer), but quality of life as well (for a shit ton of physiological reasons). Also, take average lifespan statistics with a huge grain of salt. Almost all methodologies I've seen have not accounted for all the non-natural deaths and so societal factors impact the range hugely. I mean, it's not like the civil wars and genocides in Africa have anything to do with their lower lifespans...

The point being - you're far better off continuing to exercise (and by this I mean progressive resistance) until the day you die.
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
September 17 2014 08:07 GMT
#67
I don't understand where some of you take the idea SK is a blooming economy..
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
September 17 2014 08:10 GMT
#68
On September 17 2014 17:05 Wegandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2014 06:08 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Japan has an aging population for 2 reasons:

1) Just like everywhere else in the western world, low fertility rates, Japan is not special in this regard compared to anyone else: http://kff.org/global-indicator/total-fertility-rate/

2) The lower the metabolism of an organism, the longer it will live. As in if you starve yourself you will live longer, there is lots of research in this field. In simple terms it is due to faster metabolism --> faster cell division, and faster cell division mean you start snipping useful genes in DNA quicker, which of course means quicker death. Japan has a very low calorie diet, only 3.5% percent of Japanese population are Obese (vs 27.7% in USA)... And Japan is also a country where physical activity is not very stressed, which can quite effectively show how they little they eat calorie wise. Due to the biology stated above, they live longer.

This is 90%+ of the reason for the aging population, no buts, I have studied this topic extensively, and from what I can tell it's almost a fact in the scientific world. There are minor deviation in healthcare systems, primary food that is eaten (rice vs bread vs potatoes), amounts of meat eaten, etc. But at the end of the day, the main cause is point #2, and that can be attributed to several factors like culture/history, geography (fish vs lots of land), etc.



Somatic Theory of Gene Mutation is...not entirely implausible (though far from fact...hell, my geriatric rehab book lists at least 12 theories of aging...), but the part about physical activity vis a vis caloric intake is patently false. All the evidence points towards exercise (and yes, that means a higher caloric intake) is a major indicator for not only longevity of life (as in you will live longer), but quality of life as well (for a shit ton of physiological reasons). Also, take average lifespan statistics with a huge grain of salt. Almost all methodologies I've seen have not accounted for all the non-natural deaths and so societal factors impact the range hugely. I mean, it's not like the civil wars and genocides in Africa have anything to do with their lower lifespans...

The point being - you're far better off continuing to exercise (and by this I mean progressive resistance) until the day you die.


point isn't really to compare africa / japan average lifespan x_x

vndestiny
Profile Blog Joined September 2011
Singapore3440 Posts
September 17 2014 08:37 GMT
#69
We actually have a funny opinion in the thread that a unification will benefit SK more than harming them. Interesting...
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 09:10:43
September 17 2014 09:10 GMT
#70
On September 17 2014 17:37 vndestiny wrote:
We actually have a funny opinion in the thread that a unification will benefit SK more than harming them. Interesting...

True. I think it would be a net benefit, but it's worth pointing out that it took 20+ years for East Germany to hit par with West Germany and become active contributors to German growth. North Korea is MUCH weaker than East Germany ever was and South Korea has a far lower capacity for the extra burden than West Germany had. You could tentatively guess that it would take closer to 30 years for North Korea to build the infrastructure and soft resources to contribute to innovation and productivity.

One unknown is that Korea had always been unique among poor countries in that it put a high cultural premium on education. It's not clear if they maintain high rates of literacy and especially good technical skills, which would help enormously. If it turns out North Korea has been teaching rubbish in math and science too, then it could be a much heavier social burden and take much longer to properly educate new generations of North Koreans to meet global standards, much less be world-class as South Korea is aspiring to be.
Wegandi
Profile Joined March 2011
United States2455 Posts
September 17 2014 09:25 GMT
#71
On September 17 2014 17:10 Boonbag wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2014 17:05 Wegandi wrote:
On September 17 2014 06:08 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Japan has an aging population for 2 reasons:

1) Just like everywhere else in the western world, low fertility rates, Japan is not special in this regard compared to anyone else: http://kff.org/global-indicator/total-fertility-rate/

2) The lower the metabolism of an organism, the longer it will live. As in if you starve yourself you will live longer, there is lots of research in this field. In simple terms it is due to faster metabolism --> faster cell division, and faster cell division mean you start snipping useful genes in DNA quicker, which of course means quicker death. Japan has a very low calorie diet, only 3.5% percent of Japanese population are Obese (vs 27.7% in USA)... And Japan is also a country where physical activity is not very stressed, which can quite effectively show how they little they eat calorie wise. Due to the biology stated above, they live longer.

This is 90%+ of the reason for the aging population, no buts, I have studied this topic extensively, and from what I can tell it's almost a fact in the scientific world. There are minor deviation in healthcare systems, primary food that is eaten (rice vs bread vs potatoes), amounts of meat eaten, etc. But at the end of the day, the main cause is point #2, and that can be attributed to several factors like culture/history, geography (fish vs lots of land), etc.



Somatic Theory of Gene Mutation is...not entirely implausible (though far from fact...hell, my geriatric rehab book lists at least 12 theories of aging...), but the part about physical activity vis a vis caloric intake is patently false. All the evidence points towards exercise (and yes, that means a higher caloric intake) is a major indicator for not only longevity of life (as in you will live longer), but quality of life as well (for a shit ton of physiological reasons). Also, take average lifespan statistics with a huge grain of salt. Almost all methodologies I've seen have not accounted for all the non-natural deaths and so societal factors impact the range hugely. I mean, it's not like the civil wars and genocides in Africa have anything to do with their lower lifespans...

The point being - you're far better off continuing to exercise (and by this I mean progressive resistance) until the day you die.


point isn't really to compare africa / japan average lifespan x_x



You've completely missed the point. Do you know what a simile is?
Thank you bureaucrats for all your hard work, your commitment to public service and public good is essential to the lives of so many. Also, for Pete's sake can we please get some gun control already, no need for hand guns and assault rifles for the public
Boonbag
Profile Blog Joined March 2008
France3318 Posts
September 17 2014 12:08 GMT
#72
On September 17 2014 18:25 Wegandi wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 17 2014 17:10 Boonbag wrote:
On September 17 2014 17:05 Wegandi wrote:
On September 17 2014 06:08 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Japan has an aging population for 2 reasons:

1) Just like everywhere else in the western world, low fertility rates, Japan is not special in this regard compared to anyone else: http://kff.org/global-indicator/total-fertility-rate/

2) The lower the metabolism of an organism, the longer it will live. As in if you starve yourself you will live longer, there is lots of research in this field. In simple terms it is due to faster metabolism --> faster cell division, and faster cell division mean you start snipping useful genes in DNA quicker, which of course means quicker death. Japan has a very low calorie diet, only 3.5% percent of Japanese population are Obese (vs 27.7% in USA)... And Japan is also a country where physical activity is not very stressed, which can quite effectively show how they little they eat calorie wise. Due to the biology stated above, they live longer.

This is 90%+ of the reason for the aging population, no buts, I have studied this topic extensively, and from what I can tell it's almost a fact in the scientific world. There are minor deviation in healthcare systems, primary food that is eaten (rice vs bread vs potatoes), amounts of meat eaten, etc. But at the end of the day, the main cause is point #2, and that can be attributed to several factors like culture/history, geography (fish vs lots of land), etc.



Somatic Theory of Gene Mutation is...not entirely implausible (though far from fact...hell, my geriatric rehab book lists at least 12 theories of aging...), but the part about physical activity vis a vis caloric intake is patently false. All the evidence points towards exercise (and yes, that means a higher caloric intake) is a major indicator for not only longevity of life (as in you will live longer), but quality of life as well (for a shit ton of physiological reasons). Also, take average lifespan statistics with a huge grain of salt. Almost all methodologies I've seen have not accounted for all the non-natural deaths and so societal factors impact the range hugely. I mean, it's not like the civil wars and genocides in Africa have anything to do with their lower lifespans...

The point being - you're far better off continuing to exercise (and by this I mean progressive resistance) until the day you die.


point isn't really to compare africa / japan average lifespan x_x



You've completely missed the point. Do you know what a simile is?


ty sabu
CaucasianAsian
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
Korea (South)11577 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-09-17 12:52:45
September 17 2014 12:51 GMT
#73
Reunification will not turn Korea into a "happy go lucky utopian society". I don't want to side-track this thread from Japan, but OP whatever sources you are getting your information on the subject of the Koreas, I urge you to please change them.
Calendar@ Fish Server: `iOps]..Stark
AutoEngineer
Profile Joined June 2014
United States97 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-29 14:51:55
December 29 2014 14:39 GMT
#74
Major bump and update on Japan's economy:

Japan's economy begins to implode


Not that I believe in the NWO, however the recent global economic trends seem to be correlating to the collapse of two economies, Japan and Russia.

With the population of Japan seen shrinking to 87 million by 2060, the fact that more than 1/4 of its population are seniors and also that Japan's population is shrinking by half a million each year, means that Japan's economy will see negative economic growth from domestic consumption alone.

The problem with Japan's demographics is that its fertility rate has been low for 4 decades, much more than its neighbors. For example, South Korea only entered the low fertility phase in the 1990s, much later than Japan's 1970s. Japan is serving as a failed model to South Korea and Taiwan, two economies which are very export oriented, similar to Japan's.

Real wages in Japan have shrunk, and Japan has turned into a nation with a negative savings rate. Exports, tourism and other industries will not do anything to help Japan, since Japan's domestic economy is the biggest factor for Japan's economic survival.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-27/keynesian-end-game-crystalizes-japan’s-monetary-madness

The Keynesian End Game Crystalizes In Japan’s Monetary Madness
If the BOJ’s mad money printers were treated as monetary pariahs by the rest of the world, it would at least imply that a modicum of sanity remains on the planet. But just the opposite is the case. Establishment institutions like the IMF, the US treasury and the other major central banks urge them on, while the Keynesian arson squad led by Professor Krugman actually faults Japan for being too tepid with its “stimulus”.

Now comes several new data points that absolutely confirm Japan is a financial mad house—-even as its policy model is embraced by mainstream officials and analysts peering from a distance. Front and center is the newly reported fact from the Cabinet Office that Japan’s household savings rate plunged to minus 1.3% in the most recent fiscal year, thereby entering negative territory for the first time since records were started in 1955.

[image loading]

By the same token, the public debt burden has been climbing relentlessly since the early 1980s owing to the embrace of Keynesian fiscal policies, as so vividly demonstrated in the graph below. And now owing to Abenomics, another 7-10% of GDP will be added annually to the public debt in the years just ahead.

[image loading]


Currency collapse, in turn, means that the cost-of-living on an economic archipelago that imports 100% of its energy and most of its raw materials is bound to rise, causing real wages to fall. In fact, that marks another fraught in-coming data point. In November, real cash wages plunged by 4.3% on a year/year basis, marking the 17th straight monthly decline and the steepest slide since December 2009.

[image loading]


Thus, the Keynesian disaster is complete. Massive BOJ money printing to fund the deficit is eroding real wages, thereby mitigating against tax increases capable of closing the fiscal gap and reducing the financing burden. The mad men at the BOJ are also, and simultaneously, obliterating the domestic saver with ZIRP and warding off international investors with a plunging exchange rate. Consequently, there is no honest way to finance the public deficit, meaning that the printing presses will continue to run red hot.

That this policy amounts to a financial suicide mission is obvious enough. But what is truly scary is that Japan’s policy model has been greenlighted and adopted in one form or another by governments and their central banking branches all around the world.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-29 15:14:44
December 29 2014 15:09 GMT
#75
that's quite a spin on things. japan's long term private debt problem is not keynesian. it's more about asset bubble and private debt taking at low interest rate in the early 90's.

seamless transition to the govt debt graph too, as if the two are the same problem. they are not.

abenomics could have worked in conjunction with an opportune economic growth period, basically an increase in employment base. but alas. also dumb as fuck tax hike.
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
AutoEngineer
Profile Joined June 2014
United States97 Posts
December 30 2014 02:32 GMT
#76
Industrial output also declined in November against expectations of an increase.

Domestic consumer spending also decreased for the 7th consecutive month following April's tax hike.

Abenomics was a complete and utter mistake and the ones to blame are Japan's conservative politicians.
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-30 03:06:05
December 30 2014 03:05 GMT
#77
On December 30 2014 00:09 oneofthem wrote:
that's quite a spin on things. japan's long term private debt problem is not keynesian. it's more about asset bubble and private debt taking at low interest rate in the early 90's.

seamless transition to the govt debt graph too, as if the two are the same problem. they are not.

abenomics could have worked in conjunction with an opportune economic growth period, basically an increase in employment base. but alas. alsodumb as fuck tax hike.


If you constantly devaluate your currency through expansionary monetary policy,and thus become unattractive to foreign investors and you are drowning in public debt because of expansionary fiscal policy then there are only so many options left to balance the budget.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-30 03:11:55
December 30 2014 03:11 GMT
#78
so what's this unattractive japanese bond yield?

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2014-12-28/yen-swaps-spur-biggest-global-demand-for-japan-bonds-since-2007.html
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
Nyxisto
Profile Joined August 2010
Germany6287 Posts
December 30 2014 03:14 GMT
#79
currently the bonds are at 1% over 30 years(3% for American bonds), which is among the lowest yields in the word, as your article itself states. Japans economy is largely domestically financed.
oneofthem
Profile Blog Joined November 2005
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-12-30 03:21:28
December 30 2014 03:20 GMT
#80
just gonna say your post was straight up non sequitur and also not describing reality

japan does not need to balance its budget. it already has a hard time dealing with a shortfall in domestic consumption. why is 'balancing the budget' a priority for them atm
We have fed the heart on fantasies, the heart's grown brutal from the fare, more substance in our enmities than in our love
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