The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
Really some of your comments just makes me sad. You don't know what did happen in France, and I posted about it like twenty pages ago. No synagogue burned in France - in fact according to the rabbin not even a stone was thrown at the synagogue. There are more anti muslim, anti black, anti arabs, anti whatever you want, than anti jews actions in France. Exept maybe when Israel decide to kill kids in gaza and then consider that all critics reflect the antisemitism of the people who criticize.
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't see any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel.
Yup. And in fact, these (mentioned in the article) israelis are worse.
Did you read the article? They do not only wish death to the palestines. They in fact chant deathwishes for left orientated israelis.
Israeli film director Shira Geffen signed a letter along with others calling for a ceasefire. The move prompted a response from Limor Livnat, the Israeli minister for culture and sports, who called the directors “a disgrace to the State of Israel”.
Now a big important part, read careful.
It is typical for countries at the beginning of the war to experience a rise in nationalism, according to Yaron Ezrahi, Professor Emeritus of Political Science at the Hebrew University told The Telegraph, drawing an analogy to nationalism in the UK during the Falklands War. However, the extremism in Israel is further fuelled “by other factors which are much less related to war”, he said. “We have in Israel parties and politicians who score political points by inciting hatred against Arabs in general and also Israeli-Arabs”, he said.
Those fucktards over here chanting threats to jews are condemned to no extent, rightfully so. Doesn't seem to be the case in Israel, quite the opposite according to not just the part i quoted, but other sources too.
You can go on blind-eying stuff like that, i get the whiff that you actually do not care about what's actually happening. If you get presented stuff, you either ignore it completely and make another arbitrary point, or you try to justify behaviour that you condemn in other nations.
I disagree partially with many people here (even those who do agree that Israel by no means wants peace), but you, honestly, are basically zeo-ing this thread.
edit: by that i don't mean that you should be "converted" by now, but that you at least should recognize where problems really are, and that's by far not only hamas.
On July 27 2014 03:44 Xiphos wrote: If Isreal is in the process of enforcing genocide on its border, then they are no better than the German Nazi party for their holocaust.
For shame...
not only was this comment to germane to the immediately preceding discussions, you managed to invoke hyperbole and hitler in a one sentence pithy dismissal of a complicated situation. was this comment designed to contribute to the discussion intellectually, factually, or in any positive fashion at all?
The worst thing that Israel could do at this point is back off with the job half-finished. They have already done too much damage; they should at least make it worth it by completely uprooting Hamas and giving the moderates of Gaza a chance to govern in their place. I say this not as a supporter of Netanyahu but as someone who wants to see a real long-term resolution rather than another two to three year break before more of the same.
Apparently Hamas officials have rejected a prolonged ceasefire and have started mortar attacks again...
Edit : Seems it's indeed Hamas.
They're just consistent, they don't want small ceasefire anymore, they want a real truce, the end of the blocade.
On July 27 2014 04:12 tomatriedes wrote: The worst thing that Israel could do at this point is back off with the job half-finished. They have already done too much damage; they should at least make it worth it by completely uprooting Hamas and giving the moderates of Gaza a chance to govern in their place. I say this not as a supporter of Netanyahu but as someone who wants to see a real long-term resolution rather than another two to three year break before more of the same.
Which job are you talking about ? They don't even know why they are here. They just want to kill some arabs and break some house, believe the fear that it will create will protect them. They can't stop Palestinians from throwing rockets unless they kill them all.
Apparently Hamas officials have rejected a prolonged ceasefire and have started mortar attacks again...
Edit : Seems it's indeed Hamas.
They're just consistent, they don't want small ceasefire anymore, they want a real truce, the end of the blocade.
Which job are you talking about ? They don't even know why they are here. They just want to kill some arabs and break some house, believe the fear that it will create will protect them. They can't stop Palestinians from throwing rockets unless they kill them all.
The Hamas will not accept a long ceasefire till they are out of rockets. In a week or so they will be out of rockets and ask for a ceasefire. After a couple of years of restockpiling and digging they will start again. Hence and repeat.
It is in the interest of the Hamas to not sign a ceasefire.
No violence: Palestiniens die in silence, while their "country" keep decaying
Violence: Palestiniens die in battle, while the whole world actually pays attention to what is going on.
It is simply unacceptable to mention that Palestiniens want war. It's just that fighting is better than rotting. To go back to the Warsaw ghetto uprising analogy, the situation we're living right now is just like if Nazi Germany would say " LOOK, they're fighting back. Our whole actions were justified! They're attacking our SS officiers.. these poor fathers who might not go back to their children someday. . "
Anyone with half a brain understands that the Israel-Palestine situation is not a war between two similarly powerful countries ( or two authorities), but a total domination of a country that wishes to remove the other one (geographically) from the surface of the Earth, and that uses the desperation of the Palestine population in order to justify their criminal activities.
User was temp banned for this post. (Godwin's Law)
He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets.
Popular where? Some cave back in 1922?
Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes.
In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all
Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar.
All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas.
The same guy claims the patriot missile never hit anything, despite indeniable proof (downed scuds riddled with shrapnells of patriot warhead).
Basically everything the source of reuters claimed was debunked already.
edit: not saying it's impossible that the iron dome is garbage, but, you know, almost no damage to any city out of more than 16000 missiles seems.. farfetched. Even if they're not the most sophisticated missiles, they used Katyushas as well - and they are a bit more explosive than your typical 4th of july cracker.
The MIT scientists are biased? Can you link to a debunking of Ted Postol or the other sources quoted in that article?
Don't know where exactly i am talking about bias, but there is no "other sources" in that article. The article sourced Richard Lloyd, but if you actually click the link, it's simply an interview with, you guessed it, Ted Postol. Every single "expert" cited in that article based their "findings" on Ted Postols article.
It should be obvious that a study based on "careful observations of amateur footage, video and picture" shouldn't be used as definitive proof for anything (and that's all Ted Postol based his accusations on, despite wreckage after successful hits).
That being said, i do agree if you would've said that the claimed 90% successrate is exaggerated. It definately is. But 0% as Ted Postol claims for the iron dome (and the Patriot Missile) is simply bullshit, easily proven by the wreckage of Scuds/Qassams. (edit: completely disregarding btw that a Quassam can have a warhead of up to 20kg weight, which punches quite a hole in house - yet the only amateurvideos/pictures i saw from hits are damage done by wreckage of rockets - and that's not even considering Katyushas)
edit:
Disregard name or "analysis", focus on the amateur footage. This video alone basically debunks Ted Postol, as these are clearly hits.
The internet has other Richard Lloyd sources with discussion though. It seems just as implausible to base opinions on the efficacy of an active defense program on controlled tests as it does to base it on amateur video. The article suggested a 10% or lower success rate didn't it? CIting testimony from 1992 that was basically an undocumented "expert" opinion isn't really a debunking. I'm not saying Iron Dome is a conspiracy. I'm saying it's likely shit that is incredibly expensive and doesn't work that well. When you factor in the undesirable psychological effects of living under an "Iron Dome" it seems pretty clear that the project is garbage.
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
No offence, but some of what you say is just not bright at all and to put it mildly is completely laughable.
On July 27 2014 03:44 Xiphos wrote: If Isreal is in the process of enforcing genocide on its border, then they are no better than the German Nazi party for their holocaust.
For shame...
not only was this comment to germane to the immediately preceding discussions, you managed to invoke hyperbole and hitler in a one sentence pithy dismissal of a complicated situation. was this comment designed to contribute to the discussion intellectually, factually, or in any positive fashion at all?
Every time Israel slaughters masses of Palestinians, all we hear from political leaders is 'It's a complicated situation for our good friends Israel'. This is because we're their allies and they're America's allies. In truth, if it wasn't for Israel being an important ally of America & EU, most of their political leaders would be shot in the Hague.
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
No offence, but some of what you say is just not bright at all and to put it mildly is completely laughable.
Tell me about the great Israeli equality after reading this article please.
Yeah , that is some pretty ridiculous shit. As the article pointed out some ass backwards US state had a similar case. In both cases this is not representative of the country as a whole, it's a freak occurrence. Judging a country by the most ridiculous case of racism you can find on the internet is probably not a very great idea nor is it very accurate.
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
No offence, but some of what you say is just not bright at all and to put it mildly is completely laughable.
Tell me about the great Israeli equality after reading this article please.
Yeah , that is some pretty ridiculous shit. As the article pointed out some ass backwards US state had a similar case. In both cases this is not representative of the country as a whole, it's a freak occurrence. Judging a country by the most ridiculous case of racism you can find on the internet is probably not a very great idea nor is it very accurate.
So, what about a law then? The law that bans Palestinians who are married to Israelis from living in Israel? I guess that is not racist?
On July 27 2014 04:12 tomatriedes wrote: The worst thing that Israel could do at this point is back off with the job half-finished. They have already done too much damage; they should at least make it worth it by completely uprooting Hamas and giving the moderates of Gaza a chance to govern in their place. I say this not as a supporter of Netanyahu but as someone who wants to see a real long-term resolution rather than another two to three year break before more of the same.
Which job are you talking about ? They don't even know why they are here. They just want to kill some arabs and break some house, believe the fear that it will create will protect them. They can't stop Palestinians from throwing rockets unless they kill them all.
(Hello, back!) The "small ceasefire" sure ain't for Israel's benefit- it's humanitarian, for the Gazan civilians. And a 7 day ceasefire is the equivalent of enabling Hamas to re-arm. That's not what a ceasefire is meant for, so of course Israel rejected it.
And if Israel wanted to have a war of fear mongering, they could do it much more effectively, without losing 40+ soldiers. They already explained (at least part of) their reason- to get rid of the tunnels. You know, those tunnels that Hamas is using to sneak militants into Israel and, among other actions, kidnap soldiers...
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
No offence, but some of what you say is just not bright at all and to put it mildly is completely laughable.
After Israel was widely condemned in the international press,[5] due to perceived anti-Arab racism in the conviction, the judge unsealed the records to show that this had in fact been a plea bargain, in a case in which Kashur was originally charged with violent rape of a Jewish woman allegedly left bruised in an apartment building stairway.[4] The court sent the victim to a mental hospital for treatment and convicted Kashur on the lesser charge.
The Palestinian civilians want peace, the fatah wants peace, Israel wants peace. The Hamas does not want peace.
Hm.. So the right wing in palestine doesn't want peace, but the left wing does.
Sounds familiar to me, wouldn't you say? About that.
These are the equivalents of what you were so ashamed and shocked about in the PMs.
I really think, and this time no offense or belittle..ing? is meant, you should think very hard about your support for Netanyahu.
The last few days we've also seen partially violent and disgusting protests in France and Germany with people chanting "death to Jews", in France even some synagogues were sat on fire. Still that doesn't mean that the whole societies have turned Anti-Semitic. Netanyahu isn't a right-wing extremist either and I've only been to Israel once in my live, but I didn't experience any Arab hate first hand. I don't think it's a mainstream phenomenon in Israel. There certainly are frictions between the Arab and Jewish population, the friction is obviously really big, but it's not systemic or political like it is in many Islamic countries.
By definition political radical Islam, which sadly is pretty much the norm in the surrounding countries, is going to result in discrimination of minorities. This can't be said for the state of Israel, which despite practical problems, is founded on the principal of equality.
No offence, but some of what you say is just not bright at all and to put it mildly is completely laughable.
Tell me about the great Israeli equality after reading this article please.
Yeah , that is some pretty ridiculous shit. As the article pointed out some ass backwards US state had a similar case. In both cases this is not representative of the country as a whole, it's a freak occurrence. Judging a country by the most ridiculous case of racism you can find on the internet is probably not a very great idea nor is it very accurate.
That case in the far from "ass backwards" US state of Massachusetts had absolutely nothing to do with race and he was acquitted anyway. It is a pretty interesting topic though... Is it rape if you have sex with someone while pretending to literally be a different human being, in the case an identical twin? Guess not, just extremely creepy fraud...
Apparently Hamas officials have rejected a prolonged ceasefire and have started mortar attacks again...
Edit : Seems it's indeed Hamas.
They're just consistent, they don't want small ceasefire anymore, they want a real truce, the end of the blocade.
Which job are you talking about ? They don't even know why they are here. They just want to kill some arabs and break some house, believe the fear that it will create will protect them. They can't stop Palestinians from throwing rockets unless they kill them all.
The Hamas will not accept a long ceasefire till they are out of rockets. In a week or so they will be out of rockets and ask for a ceasefire. After a couple of years of restockpiling and digging they will start again. Hence and repeat.
I'm sorry Whitedog, but can you source any of that claim, at all. Seriously, you just claimed that Israel is attempting to kill all the Palestinian populace so that a single part of the populace, elected by only some males in said populace will stop arming and firing rockets (acts of war) into another country. I want to see any proof, from anywhere somewhat credible that what you say is even remotely true.
EDIT: Also, people talking about equality. It's not exactly the best way to show equality or inequality by pulling up a case that goes against the mainstream, which is why that case is important. That would be like pulling up the recent murder in New York of an unarmed black man and say that the U.S. is an apartheid country. If you replace the proper nouns, its fairly obvious to see the statement is a bit over the top as far as a claim goes.
EPT
