EPTGaza war 2014 - Page 36
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mindjames
Israel433 Posts
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m4ini
4215 Posts
edit: sigh, was trying to find pictures of damage in israel (some of the missiles fired pack a decent punch), but all i find are flattened houses in palestine. Even though medias might not be unbiased, if my house gets hit by a rocket, you bet that goes live via social media etc | ||
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mindjames
Israel433 Posts
On July 26 2014 10:32 WhiteDog wrote: But the missile were never accurate to begin with (and never made much damage). What did killed Israeli before the wall and the iron dome were the suicide bombing, but since Hamas forbid them everything changed. No arabs countries have veto power. Oh yeah, Hamas forbid them. That's why they stopped. Not cause of the wall. | ||
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mindjames
Israel433 Posts
Warning: autoplay video, Hebrew | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On July 26 2014 10:43 RezJ wrote: @m4ini: http://www.ynet.co.il/articles/0,7340,L-4544426,00.html Warning: autoplay video, Hebrew Most of what i can see there are indeed intercepted rockets. They don't evaporate, so the broken stuff has to land something, i doubt that there's a chance for windows partially being intact after a proper rockethit. I can't really make sense of the google translation though, so i might be wrong - just my guess. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 26 2014 10:37 RezJ wrote: Oh yeah, Hamas forbid them. That's why they stopped. Not cause of the wall. The wall certainly helped, but Hamas did forbid them, something that crazy go to war israeli always forget. On the other hand, 40% of the wall has been built on palestinian ground and has been condamn by international court and even the US. | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 26 2014 09:29 HeartOfTheSwarm wrote: In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war. It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Was thinking about this the other day. Wouldn't make sense for them to do such a thing at this time (article explains why). This war has already had massive civilian casualties on the Palestinian side and finding out they weren't responsible only makes the situation worse (not that it can get worse  )This has been circulating around. I guess a commemorative video if you can call it that. Put it in spoilers incase it's not allowed (don't see the reason it's not): + Show Spoiler + | ||
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IgnE
United States7681 Posts
On July 26 2014 10:27 m4ini wrote: The same guy claims the patriot missile never hit anything, despite indeniable proof (downed scuds riddled with shrapnells of patriot warhead). Basically everything the source of reuters claimed was debunked already. edit: not saying it's impossible that the iron dome is garbage, but, you know, almost no damage to any city out of more than 16000 missiles seems.. farfetched. Even if they're not the most sophisticated missiles, they used Katyushas as well - and they are a bit more explosive than your typical 4th of july cracker. The MIT scientists are biased? Can you link to a debunking of Ted Postol or the other sources quoted in that article? | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
smaller explosion for a warning (~15 seconds, definitely not enough time), then the bigger explosion. im guessing they warned earlier as the camera is placed pretty nicely. http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=6e4_1406338980 as for warning and bombing, only thing i can say is israelis are smart. this warning and bombing this can be debated to death all depending on the perspective, im sure thats the intention from israel regardless if they care for innocent death or not. innocent people do die in war, its not good in any shape or form, but israel makes people say "at least they're warning", "compare that to their enemies or other nations", etc. doesnt the warning help hamas military too? they too can evacuate. maybe idf cares more about getting rid of their heavy equipment than anything else. edit: there was more time after warning explosion, video was edited. | ||
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furymonkey
New Zealand1587 Posts
Here is a slow motion video of such experiment If you watch closely you can see the income projectile, these system are designed to be embed on armors, they are designed to counter RPG and enemy tank, artillery rounds of sort. My theory is if these system works in urban environment with minimal reaction time, if shouldn't be so hard to shoot down something that travel across the sky. | ||
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Bill Murray
United States9292 Posts
The conflict in Gaza is about Politics for me. If a Nation, here, Palestine, attacks another nation multiple times, and has to give up land as reparations to a nation with a bigger military, it is best to not provoke the other nation. Israel has been provoked, and this is the fallback of the aggression. Palestine isn't largely a problem. Israel are to the point that they are being somewhat greedy, and are approaching some Shermanesque "burn down Atlanta" full out Genocide that is not cool whatsoever and they need to be held accountable. If they are merely retaliating because Hamas are firing rockets, or raiding places with munitions (guns/ammo/bombs/rockets), that is moderately appropriate. I do not like the segregation. Palestinians are human beings. Noone deserves to be caged in, unless they are murderers. Many of them are, and they hide amongst the people, possibly using them as shields (heresay) .......... I don't know if I believe this. In all honesty, the people who are looking bad here are the Israeli military. Recently, I even saw that they had beaten an American kid who was Muslim. Chose the wrong region to visit, I suppose. This is not all fun and games, but where else did the Israelis have to go? They were pretty much trapped in Poland... between a rock, and a hard place... and got to return to the Holy land they inhabited from Abraham to Acre... Cool. Keep things the way they were. However, It's Istanbul, not Constantinople, so perhaps it would be wise to not live in the past. MY solution to the problem would be to make both Nations move, with the whole area in between Cairo and Beirut (to the extent that it is deemed "holy") capable of being ventured into safely for anyone who wants to go on a pilgrimage. I apologize for my earlier actions in this thread. I do not think that a peaceful resolution will be able to be attained, though. There will constantly be bombings... all I can do is pray for the women and children who are being maimed from this conflict. I Really don't know what to do here. We need to organize peace talks, maybe even give Palestine some of its land they lost in the last 60 years... hell it's not even a nation technically speaking anymore is it? I prefer Israel, but this isn't cool, Israel. Over the line. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 26 2014 17:45 Bill Murray wrote: I have nothing against anyone of any race/color/religion. I was largely misunderstood earlier in this thread The conflict in Gaza is about Politics for me. If a Nation, here, Palestine, attacks another nation multiple times, and has to give up land as reparations to a nation with a bigger military, it is best to not provoke the other nation. This is untrue. In fact Palestinians have been almost apathic about Israeli for a big part of its history - they felt powerless maybe ? Putting aside the first conflict, where the blame can be evenly split (arabs didn't "attack" jew unlike what most people believe, but they started what was relatively peaceful manifestations against british at first). But whatever, not only those arguments are historically untrue, they are also completly outdated. The situation right now has nothing to do with agressions from Palestinians : what did the Hamas have to do with the kidnapping of the three kids ? not to mention the blocade, the brutalisation and humiliation of Palestinians everyday, and even the baseless murders that happen here and there through out gaza almost every month with no reaction from international states or public. Taking Israelis' chronology cannot lead you far into understanding the matter at hand. So nobody misunderstood you : you don't care about Palestinians life like you care about Israelis', and you don't really care about the conflict since you didn't even take the time to check about its (even recent) history. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On July 26 2014 17:45 Bill Murray wrote: This is not all fun and games, but where else did the Israelis have to go? They were pretty much trapped in Poland... between a rock, and a hard place... and got to return to the Holy land they inhabited from Abraham to Acre... Cool. Keep things the way they were. However, It's Istanbul, not Constantinople, so perhaps it would be wise to not live in the past. I prefer Israel, but this isn't cool, Israel. Over the line. Interesting the Mormons, Amish etc. could find a home for their congregation, there were uninhabited fertile areas all around the world back then and you ask where else could they go? Surely not to one of the most densely populated areas in the world? | ||
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HeatEXTEND
Netherlands836 Posts
On July 26 2014 09:29 HeartOfTheSwarm wrote: In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war. It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Who didn't see this coming :/ | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On July 26 2014 14:56 IgnE wrote: The MIT scientists are biased? Can you link to a debunking of Ted Postol or the other sources quoted in that article? Don't know where exactly i am talking about bias, but there is no "other sources" in that article. The article sourced Richard Lloyd, but if you actually click the link, it's simply an interview with, you guessed it, Ted Postol. Every single "expert" cited in that article based their "findings" on Ted Postols article. About the debunking: http://fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1992_h/h920407z.htm (Harvard) http://fas.org/spp/starwars/congress/1992_h/h920407m.htm (Center for Strategic and International Studies) It should be obvious that a study based on "careful observations of amateur footage, video and picture" shouldn't be used as definitive proof for anything (and that's all Ted Postol based his accusations on, despite wreckage after successful hits). That being said, i do agree if you would've said that the claimed 90% successrate is exaggerated. It definately is. But 0% as Ted Postol claims for the iron dome (and the Patriot Missile) is simply bullshit, easily proven by the wreckage of Scuds/Qassams. (edit: completely disregarding btw that a Quassam can have a warhead of up to 20kg weight, which punches quite a hole in house - yet the only amateurvideos/pictures i saw from hits are damage done by wreckage of rockets - and that's not even considering Katyushas) edit: Disregard name or "analysis", focus on the amateur footage. This video alone basically debunks Ted Postol, as these are clearly hits. | ||
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CuddlyCuteKitten
Sweden2708 Posts
Option b) is tried and proven. It's basically wiping out the enemy population altogether or breaking them down so hard that they lose all will to fight back. If you don't want to kill all of them you can always displace them. It has an excellent track record but it's frowned upon in Western circles even though it was used in WWII after the war (massive ethnic cleansing in border regions of Germany and many other countries). Since neither side has the capacity or will to enact either of these solutions this conflict will go on for a long long time. Basically the Israel strategy is to slowly expand in to occupied areas until they are a natural part of Israel in the international community and the Palestinian strategy is to provoke Israel into enough violence that over time the international community disowns them and a combined Arabic attack can finish of the Israeli army and the jews can all be driven into the sea and killed. It's just a question of which one happens first. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 26 2014 21:43 CuddlyCuteKitten wrote: There are only two ways to achieve peace in a conflict and option a) win the hearts and mind of the people basically requires you to sacrifice your own soldiers and people by playing so nice that over time it becomes obvious for the enemy population that you are a better option than the enemy. It's basically what the US tried to do in Afghanistan or Iraq but it failed because they didn't take it far enough. You can't have raids, drone strikes, armored patrols and your units penned up in bases. Now that would mean that your soldiers are basically a shooting gallery for the enemy terrorists so unless you want to live with massive costs and massive losses it's not really an option. Option b) is tried and proven. It's basically wiping out the enemy population altogether or breaking them down so hard that they lose all will to fight back. If you don't want to kill all of them you can always displace them. It has an excellent track record but it's frowned upon in Western circles even though it was used in WWII after the war (massive ethnic cleansing in border regions of Germany and many other countries). Since neither side has the capacity or will to enact either of these solutions this conflict will go on for a long long time. Basically the Israel strategy is to slowly expand in to occupied areas until they are a natural part of Israel in the international community and the Palestinian strategy is to provoke Israel into enough violence that over time the international community disowns them and a combined Arabic attack can finish of the Israeli army and the jews can all be driven into the sea and killed. It's just a question of which one happens first. What is needed to resolve the conflict is very simple : respect international law, make peace by following what was negotiated at taba, and when the peace is ratified, respect your own borders. Only Israeli propaganda state that Palestinians don't want peace. In reality, it's the first time in history that a unified palestinian government exist, and this unified movement accepted almost all of Kerry's demand : it's the israeli who don't want peace. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 26 2014 22:01 WhiteDog wrote: What is needed to resolve the conflict is very simple : respect international law, make peace by following what was negotiated at taba, and when the peace is ratified, respect your own borders. Only Israeli propaganda state that Palestinians don't want peace. In reality, it's the first time in history that a unified palestinian government exist, and this unified movement accepted almost all of Kerry's demand : it's the israeli who don't want peace. Ah yes, the peaceful jihadists we all know and love, talk about being biased. If they want peace how about they start with the Hamas actually officially recognizing the state of Israel? Oh no wait that's not going to happen because they'll never accept Israel's existence. | ||
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mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
On July 26 2014 23:34 Nyxisto wrote: Ah yes, the peaceful jihadists we all know and love, talk about being biased. If they want peace how about they start with the Hamas actually officially recognizing the state of Israel? Oh no wait that's not going to happen because they'll never accept Israel's existence. Has Israel yet recognized Palestina? | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 26 2014 23:34 Nyxisto wrote: Ah yes, the peaceful jihadists we all know and love, talk about being biased. If they want peace how about they start with the Hamas actually officially recognizing the state of Israel? Oh no wait that's not going to happen because they'll never accept Israel's existence. Hamas agreed to recognize the state of Israel already in the case of a peace treaty. What they don't recognize is their legitimacy as a zionist state but who cares ? Gandhi did not recognize Pakistan's legitimacy either, but accepted its existence. I'll pass on the arabic racism. | ||
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