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just out of curiosity, i have a question with those with experience/knowledge regarding iron dome;
i saw a report from BBC that questions the effectiveness of the iron dome. some israeli citizens think they just detonate the missiles to show its "working". i looked around and saw them in action so i have a question about the missiles from hamas. do they not leave a trail? i can clearly see the trails from iron dome missile day and night yet i dont see it from hamas rockets. does hamas rockets, being lower in quality run out of fuel after lift off and use its momentum to carry the distance meanwhile the iron dome missiles are sophisticated with long range hence the missile trail being visible until explosion is normal?
wondering if anyone here expert in missile/rocket technology that can add any weight to this claim. online reports seem mixed but tl.net being a diverse place, i'd like your inputs.
because if there are any truth to this claim, it opens up a whole new can of worms.
+ Show Spoiler +
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On July 26 2014 07:58 jinorazi wrote:just out of curiosity, i have a question with those with experience/knowledge regarding iron dome; i saw a report from BBC that questions the effectiveness of the iron dome. some israeli citizens think they just detonate the missiles to show its "working". i looked around and saw them in action so i have a question about the missiles from hamas. do they not leave a trail? i can clearly see the trails from iron dome missile day and night yet i dont see it from hamas rockets. does hamas rockets, being lower in quality run out of fuel after lift off and use its momentum to carry the distance meanwhile the iron dome missiles are sophisticated with long range hence the missile trail being visible until explosion is normal? wondering if anyone here expert in missile/rocket technology that can add any weight to this claim. online reports seem mixed but tl.net being a diverse place, i'd like your inputs. because if there are any truth to this claim, it opens up a whole new can of worms. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUTeRUay37U
Unless, I'm missing something, that video should be considered absurd. By all accounts, the Palestinians have fired hundreds upon hundreds of missiles at Israel to virtually no effect as a result of the Iron Dome system.
Also, note that the video is a year old.
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On July 26 2014 08:19 xDaunt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 07:58 jinorazi wrote:just out of curiosity, i have a question with those with experience/knowledge regarding iron dome; i saw a report from BBC that questions the effectiveness of the iron dome. some israeli citizens think they just detonate the missiles to show its "working". i looked around and saw them in action so i have a question about the missiles from hamas. do they not leave a trail? i can clearly see the trails from iron dome missile day and night yet i dont see it from hamas rockets. does hamas rockets, being lower in quality run out of fuel after lift off and use its momentum to carry the distance meanwhile the iron dome missiles are sophisticated with long range hence the missile trail being visible until explosion is normal? wondering if anyone here expert in missile/rocket technology that can add any weight to this claim. online reports seem mixed but tl.net being a diverse place, i'd like your inputs. because if there are any truth to this claim, it opens up a whole new can of worms. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUTeRUay37U Unless, I'm missing something, that video should be considered absurd. By all accounts, the Palestinians have fired hundreds upon hundreds of missiles at Israel to virtually no effect as a result of the Iron Dome system. Also, note that the video is a year old.
Casualties were low even before the Iron dome tho, so I think it's not absurd to consider that the efficiency of the Iron Dome is certainly limited (and kinda overstated by Israeli officials), but has still a high face value efficiency helped by the high inefficiency of Hamas' rockets.
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On July 26 2014 09:13 WhiteDog wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 08:19 xDaunt wrote:On July 26 2014 07:58 jinorazi wrote:just out of curiosity, i have a question with those with experience/knowledge regarding iron dome; i saw a report from BBC that questions the effectiveness of the iron dome. some israeli citizens think they just detonate the missiles to show its "working". i looked around and saw them in action so i have a question about the missiles from hamas. do they not leave a trail? i can clearly see the trails from iron dome missile day and night yet i dont see it from hamas rockets. does hamas rockets, being lower in quality run out of fuel after lift off and use its momentum to carry the distance meanwhile the iron dome missiles are sophisticated with long range hence the missile trail being visible until explosion is normal? wondering if anyone here expert in missile/rocket technology that can add any weight to this claim. online reports seem mixed but tl.net being a diverse place, i'd like your inputs. because if there are any truth to this claim, it opens up a whole new can of worms. + Show Spoiler +http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUTeRUay37U Unless, I'm missing something, that video should be considered absurd. By all accounts, the Palestinians have fired hundreds upon hundreds of missiles at Israel to virtually no effect as a result of the Iron Dome system. Also, note that the video is a year old. Casualties were low even before the Iron dome tho, so I think it's not absurd to consider that the efficiency of the Iron Dome is certainly limited (and kinda overstated by Israeli officials), but has still a high face value efficiency helped by the high inefficiency of Hamas' rockets.
There is a popular thoery on the Iron Dome.
In an interview last Thursday with Radio 103, Israel Defense Prize winner and aerospace engineering expert Dr. Moti Shefer stated simply that Iron Dome was one of the biggest bluffs ever seen.
>He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Iron Dome is a sound and light show that is intercepting only Israeli public opinion, and itself, of course. Actually, all the explosions you see in the sky are self explosions. No Iron Dome missile has ever collided with a single rocket. Open spaces are a myth invented in order to up Iron Dome's current interception percentages. The rockets announced as intercepted by Iron Dome either never reach the ground, or are virtual rockets invented and destroyed on the Iron Dom control computer. To this day, no one has ever seen an intercepted rocket fall to the ground."
>He continued, "What lands here is what's launched. The parts we see on the ground are from Iron Dome itself. We're shooting at ourselves, mainly virtually. The virtual rocket was invented in order to increase the vagueness surrounding Iron Dome. Assume that a real rocket arrives. What does the command and control system do? It creates nine more virtual rockets, and transmits their paths on computer graphics to the rocket launcher operators. The launcher operators see 10 rockets and launch 10 Iron Dome interceptors. People hear 10 booms, one rocket enters, and you get a 90% success rate."
>According to Dr. Shefer, Iron Dome is a part of a broad conspiracy, in which two interested parties afraid of peace are participating: the defense industries and Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
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He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets.
Popular where? Some cave back in 1922?
Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes.
In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all
Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar.
All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas.
Pretty loaded.
edit: from HeartofSwarms source
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The Iron Dome thing is a conspiracy theory. The guy who criticized it is someone who offered some other technology that didn't end up selling.
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On July 26 2014 09:54 RezJ wrote:
The Iron Dome thing is a conspiracy theory. The guy who criticized it is someone who offered some other technology that didn't end up selling.
Yo Rez, your opinion on what i quoted?
Have to read into it anyway, guess you heard more about that stuff than i did.
edit: honest question btw, not flamebait
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I've actually only learned about it now from this thread. I guess it seems kinda weird that Hamas didn't deny nor approve that they did it.
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Man, if only we had the wikipedia model on a news site.
omg
*starts company*
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On July 26 2014 09:53 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Popular where? Some cave back in 1922? Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes. Show nested quote +In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar. Show nested quote +All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. Pretty loaded. edit: from HeartofSwarms source
The Iron Dome is garbage.
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All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas.
But the war wasn't sparked by these of these murders. It started because of the Palestinian kid that was killed. Hamas started launching Rockets into Israel again and refused to stop until a ton of jailed Palestinians were released and the blockade was lifted. This prompted airstrikes and the whole thing escalated out of control because the leaders on both sides were itching for a fight.
It would have happened sooner or later but what a stupid way for a war to start.
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On July 26 2014 10:12 IgnE wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 09:53 m4ini wrote:He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Popular where? Some cave back in 1922? Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes. In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar. All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. Pretty loaded. edit: from HeartofSwarms source The Iron Dome is garbage.
The same guy claims the patriot missile never hit anything, despite indeniable proof (downed scuds riddled with shrapnells of patriot warhead).
Basically everything the source of reuters claimed was debunked already.
edit: not saying it's impossible that the iron dome is garbage, but, you know, almost no damage to any city out of more than 16000 missiles seems.. farfetched. Even if they're not the most sophisticated missiles, they used Katyushas as well - and they are a bit more explosive than your typical 4th of july cracker.
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On July 26 2014 10:13 Antisocialmunky wrote:Show nested quote +All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. But the war wasn't sparked by these of these murders. It started because of the Palestinian kid that was killed. Hamas started launching Rockets into Israel again and refused to stop until a ton of jailed Palestinians were released and the blockade was lifted. This prompted airstrikes and the whole thing escalated out of control because the leaders on both sides were itching for a fight. It would have happened sooner or later but what a stupid way for a war to start.
You are mistaking yourself if you think hamas launched rockets for one palestinian kids. I'm not saying it is not a good excuse for war, but Hamas did not started only for one kid - they are not mad dog unlike Israeli (and I'm referring to Moshe Dayan's statement, it's not some baseless attacks on my part). In fact, according to Chomsky, a kid die each two days in Palestine since 10 years, so...
Here is one of my previous post about the chronology of the event:
Btw, about the first post, the chronology of the facts is kinda small, and can appear biased toward Israel. Late may, two women were killed by the Israeli army (under camera http://www.btselem.org/releases/20140520_bitunya_killings_on_nakba_day ) and the UN asked for investigations on the subject. Then, the fifth of july, Israel advanced 1500 new settlements (http://talkingpointsmemo.com/news/israel-advances-new-settlements). Those two fact are relevant to maybe explain the kidnapping of the three kids, it's not just a crime that comes from nowhere might I say. Also, between the 12 June and 30th (date when the kids were supposedly found) four young Palestinians are killed un israeli bullets, and 600 Palestinians, with 11 deputee, are arrested during a vast operation in the West Bank. The media almost always put that chronology aside, sadly.
On July 26 2014 09:59 RezJ wrote:
I've actually only learned about it now from this thread. I guess it seems kinda weird that Hamas didn't deny nor approve that they did it.
Hamas ? Denying or approving ? When is the last time anybody heard any Hamas official saying something else than accepted or refusing peace ? Nobody ask them anything, since all media are biased toward israel.
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On July 26 2014 10:27 m4ini wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 10:12 IgnE wrote:On July 26 2014 09:53 m4ini wrote:He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Popular where? Some cave back in 1922? Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes. In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar. All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. Pretty loaded. edit: from HeartofSwarms source The Iron Dome is garbage. The same guy claims the patriot missile never hit anything, despite indeniable proof (downed scuds riddled with shrapnells of patriot warhead). Basically everything the source of reuters claimed was debunked already. edit: not saying it's impossible that the iron dome is garbage, but, you know, almost no damage to any city out of more than 16000 missiles seems.. farfetched.
The problem with any kind of Iron Dome study is that interested parties -- defense industries and the government that uses the Iron Dome as a solution that avoids the need for a political solution with Palestinians -- have pretty strong incentives not to report a bunch of damage either. Better way to study this would be through insurance claim. If the missiles are getting through and are hitting things then people will file insurance claims for those things, no?
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Nothing? Because the Arabs have friends on the UNSC too.
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On July 26 2014 10:30 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 10:27 m4ini wrote:On July 26 2014 10:12 IgnE wrote:On July 26 2014 09:53 m4ini wrote:He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Popular where? Some cave back in 1922? Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes. In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar. All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. Pretty loaded. edit: from HeartofSwarms source The Iron Dome is garbage. The same guy claims the patriot missile never hit anything, despite indeniable proof (downed scuds riddled with shrapnells of patriot warhead). Basically everything the source of reuters claimed was debunked already. edit: not saying it's impossible that the iron dome is garbage, but, you know, almost no damage to any city out of more than 16000 missiles seems.. farfetched. The problem with any kind of Iron Dome study is that interested parties -- defense industries and the government that uses the Iron Dome as a solution that avoids the need for a political solution with Palestinians -- have pretty strong incentives not to report a bunch of damage either. Better way to study this would be through insurance claim. If the missiles are getting through and are hitting things then people will file insurance claims for those things, no?
But the missile were never accurate to begin with (and never made much damage). What did killed Israeli before the wall and the iron dome were the suicide bombing, but since Hamas forbid them everything changed.
On July 26 2014 10:31 Sub40APM wrote:Nothing? Because the Arabs have friends on the UNSC too.
No arabs countries have veto power.
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On July 26 2014 10:30 Sub40APM wrote:Show nested quote +On July 26 2014 10:27 m4ini wrote:On July 26 2014 10:12 IgnE wrote:On July 26 2014 09:53 m4ini wrote:He said, "There is no missile in the world today able to intercept missiles or rockets. Popular where? Some cave back in 1922? Honestly, that's pretty bs in my eyes. In the end it wasn't even Hamas that kidnapped the 3 teens Israel used as a pretext to start the war.
It turns out Hamas didn't kidnap the Israeli teens after all Well. Starting a war with a made up reason, sounds familiar. All the illegal and immoral actions related to Operation Brother’s Keeper were justified under the premise of finding and saving the missing teens whom the Israeli government knew to be dead — cynically exploiting the tragedy to whip up public outcry in order to provoke and then confront Hamas. Pretty loaded. edit: from HeartofSwarms source The Iron Dome is garbage. The same guy claims the patriot missile never hit anything, despite indeniable proof (downed scuds riddled with shrapnells of patriot warhead). Basically everything the source of reuters claimed was debunked already. edit: not saying it's impossible that the iron dome is garbage, but, you know, almost no damage to any city out of more than 16000 missiles seems.. farfetched. The problem with any kind of Iron Dome study is that interested parties -- defense industries and the government that uses the Iron Dome as a solution that avoids the need for a political solution with Palestinians -- have pretty strong incentives not to report a bunch of damage either. Better way to study this would be through insurance claim. If the missiles are getting through and are hitting things then people will file insurance claims for those things, no?
True i guess. I wouldn't know where to get that data though, so it's kinda irrelevant.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/qrjO8TN.jpg)
