EPTWhat do you think, how many dead palestinian civilians are worth those 28 israeli? How many people do you allow Israel to kill until you say it's too much? How many children before the IDF does not deserve the nobel peace price for holdign back anymore? It's war right, so how many?
Gaza war 2014 - Page 26
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Broetchenholer
Germany1847 Posts
What do you think, how many dead palestinian civilians are worth those 28 israeli? How many people do you allow Israel to kill until you say it's too much? How many children before the IDF does not deserve the nobel peace price for holdign back anymore? It's war right, so how many? | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On July 25 2014 00:00 Nyxisto wrote: No. Israel isn't even remotely as bad as everybody else over there. When Israel starts strapping bombs on children we can have this talk. If any other country would have been attacked the way Israel was, they would have just invaded(with maybe tens of thousands of dead civilians) and they would have called it a day. But no, all they want is for the terror from Gaza to stop. I guess that's to much to ask for. Are you even serious? Drone strikes into gardens, nukes in the desert, massive terror bombing the largest concentration camp on Earth, illegal settlements, nonstop hate propaganda against Muslims and Christians. You sound just like the israeli FM who said they deserve the Nobel Peace Prize for their self restraint. Even the much despised Syria under Assad showed had much less of these symptoms. And Syria was by all means a dictatorship, whether you like Assad or not. | ||
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Mercy13
United States718 Posts
Settlements make a two state solution more difficult to reach because many of them would have to be dismantled in order to create a Palestinian state, which would be messy and probably violent. See Israel's withdrawal from Gaza, for example. It is important to preserve a two state solution, because there really isn't any way for Israel preserve its identity as a Jewish Democratic state if only one state is created. If Palestinians are allowed to become citizens of such a state, Jews would become a minority and Israel would thereby lose its Jewish character. If instead Palestinians are treated as second class citizens without voting rights Israel could no longer properly be called a democracy. Everyone argues about casualties and war crimes, when the creeping expansion of settlements arguably does more to prevent an eventual peace deal, while having nothing to do with Israel's right to defend itself. Here's a good paper about some of the ways fundamentalist settlers abuse Palestinians: SETTLER VIOLENCE is undoubtedly working. It has made it more difficult for the IDF to govern the West Bank and fractured the settler movement, weakening the influence of the more moderate elements that would accept the legitimacy of the Israeli state even if it committed to another withdrawal. The "price tag" doctrine has thus raised the cost of even token settlement removals. The violence has conditioned Israeli politicians to worry that any pullout, whether as part of a peace agreement or as a unilateral measure, will lead to conflict. That puts the government in a bind. If it ignores the radicals, they will undermine its authority and any Palestinian goodwill that might result from a withdrawal. Confronting them, however, risks public spectacles of armed police dragging conservatively dressed young girls out of their homes, a political disaster for any Israeli government. Source | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:23 Mercy13 wrote: @Nyxisto - How do you feel about the Israeli settlements in the West Bank? Perhaps even more than the Gaza blockade, these are a huge instigator for the conflict, both historically and today I'll agree that the settlements in the West Bank are unnecessary and not helpful, Israel should probably stop the settling. Regarding the Gaza blockade: As I said, there is a not so Israel friendly country that also happens to share a border to Gaza called Egypt. Even they don't open the borders. If a 90 mil. pop. muslim country is not opening their borders because they fear having the Hamas leaking into their country, I guess Israel has a point. | ||
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:29 Nyxisto wrote: I'll agree that the settlements in the West Bank are unnecessary and not helpful, Israel should probably stop the settling. Regarding the Gaza blockade: As I said, there is a not so Israel friendly country that also happens to share a border to Gaza called Egypt. Even they don't open the borders. If a 90 mil. pop. muslim country is not opening their borders because they fear having the Hamas leaking into their country, I guess Israel has a point. Yes, Egypt doesn't open the borders SOLELY because Hamas is super duper dangerous and not because they don't want to escalate conflict between them and Israel and the US or anything of the sort. It's only because of how dangerous Hamas is. Totally... [/sarcasm] | ||
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Jormundr
United States1678 Posts
HEBRON, West Bank — Said Kawasmeh received the order from Israel’s military last week. His two-story house was to be demolished, and his large family had 48 hours to leave. The reason: Kawasmeh’s son is a key suspect in the brutal kidnapping and killing of three Israeli teenagers whose fates helped reignite the ongoing conflict between Israel and Hamas in the Gaza Strip. The son, Marwan, has disappeared. So Israel has zeroed in on his family. “I built this house, and I own it,” lamented Kawasmeh, seated on a chair in his empty house. Outside, the family’s possessions lay in boxes and shopping bags, or scattered on the ground. “Why do they want to punish me?” source On July 25 2014 01:34 aksfjh wrote: Yes, Egypt doesn't open the borders SOLELY because Hamas is super duper dangerous and not because they don't want to escalate conflict between them and Israel and the US or anything of the sort. It's only because of how dangerous Hamas is. Totally... [/sarcasm] And it's not like Israel controls who and what comes through the Egypt-Gaza border. | ||
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{CC}StealthBlue
United States41117 Posts
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aksfjh
United States4853 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: https://twitter.com/AJELive/status/492323522950488064 Pretty good evidence that Israel just doesn't give a damn any more... | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:38 Jormundr wrote: source And it's not like Israel controls who and what comes through the Egypt-Gaza border. Wow this article is edifying... The policy — different from Israel’s ongoing practice of destroying Palestinian structures it claims are unauthorized or built without valid permits — had been abandoned nine years ago because the military deemed it an ineffective deterrent against the Palestinian militancy. Genius. "After destroying innocent people houses we understood that it created resentment". The reason why Egypt close its borders is linked to previous Israeli/Egyptian war. In 1979, Israel and Egypt signed a peace treaty that returned the Sinai Peninsula, which borders the Gaza Strip, to Egyptian control. As part of that treaty, a 100-meter-wide strip of land known as the Philadelphia Route was established as a buffer zone between Gaza and Egypt.[1] The Philadelphia Route is a patrol road that runs along the border. Until 2000, the IDF used a 20-40 meter wide buffer zone along the Gaza/Egypt border with a 2.5 to 3 meters high concrete wall topped with barbed wire. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaza%E2%80%93Egypt_borderSo yep basically the Israeli control the frontier between Egypt and Gaza. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
This can also be found in the bottom half of the wiki page you posted. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:58 Nyxisto wrote: When Israel withdrew in 2005 they handed over the Philadelphia Route to the Palestines, and the Rafah crossing has since been controlled by Egypt troops. The Rafah crossing has also been open until 07, when Hamas took over Gaza. At that point Egypt basically closed the border completely followed by Hamas bomb attacks on the crossing. This can also be found in the bottom half of the wiki page you posted. And then Egypt, with US help, built a wall of steel between Gaza and Egypt. | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
On July 25 2014 02:00 WhiteDog wrote: And then Egypt, with US help, built a wall of steel between Gaza and Egypt. Correct, but how does that lead you to the conclusion that Israel controls the Egypt-Gaza border? Since 05 they clearly don't. | ||
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EtherealBlade
660 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:29 Nyxisto wrote: I'll agree that the settlements in the West Bank are unnecessary and not helpful, Israel should probably stop the settling. Regarding the Gaza blockade: As I said, there is a not so Israel friendly country that also happens to share a border to Gaza called Egypt. Even they don't open the borders. If a 90 mil. pop. muslim country is not opening their borders because they fear having the Hamas leaking into their country, I guess Israel has a point. You think Egypt doesn't open the Gaza borders because they are afraid of Hamas? Maybe the US leverage (effectively puppet) on the Egyptian governments has something to do with that. Of course there's also the refugee issue but you can't think that the popular opinion would rather side with Israel to see Gaza suffer. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 25 2014 02:02 Nyxisto wrote: Correct, but how does that lead you to the conclusion that Israel controls the Egypt-Gaza border? Since 05 they clearly don't. Let's say there are two reasons why it is closed : current egyptian government is against political islamism (because Morsi and all) AND Israel with the US help (as always) have put some strong pression on Egypt to prevent Gazans from going through the frontier. It has nothing to do with Hamas in itself (or the dangerousness or Hamas in itself) but more with both internal questions (in Egypt) and international pression (from US and Israel). | ||
BigFan
TLADT24920 Posts
On July 25 2014 01:38 {CC}StealthBlue wrote: + Show Spoiler + https://twitter.com/AJELive/status/492323522950488064 Robert Turner, the director for UNRWA told Al Jazeera there was no warning from the Israelis before the shells landed. "This is a designated emergency shelter. The location was conveyed to the Israelis," he said. "This was an installation we were managing, that was monitored [to ensure] that our neutrality was maintained." ... "A witness who arrived at the Kamal Adwan hospital after the bombardment told Al Jazeera: "We were sitting in the school, because we were told it is safe. "By God, there was not a single fighter, not a single shot was fired from the school. Why did they shoot at the school? Why? Can someone explain that to me? Why would they shell the school?" So sad  Even a safe area isn't considered safe anymore | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
Not to mention that 20 Egypt soldiers were just killed by militants 4 days ago. (Source) | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On July 25 2014 02:19 Nyxisto wrote: Egypt has already been fighting terrorism spreading from the Sinai peninsula. Radical Islam-ism from Gaza crossing the border is something I guess they genuinely want to avoid, no matter what Israel or the US think. Not to mention that 20 Egypt soldiers were just killed by militants 4 days ago. (Source) Are you surprised Gazans try to force their blocus ? lol Not to mention the Synai peninsula is a poor part of Egypt with a war-like situation since some times now. | ||
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DrCooper
Germany261 Posts
Merkel stills supports Israel, when it comes to foreign affairs, our government is a joke... | ||
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xDaunt
United States17988 Posts
On July 25 2014 02:35 DrCooper wrote: A little late, but a German-Palestinian family was killed in Gaza 2 days ago. http://www.dw.de/israel-pounds-gaza-as-hamas-rocket-fire-continues/a-17800727 Merkel stills supports Israel, when it comes to foreign affairs, our government is a joke... Any sane Western government is going to support Israel. Regardless of whether you think Israel has wronged Palestine, the bottom line is that Israel is a fundamentally Western country than can be a reliable partner in trade and other affairs. You can't say that for Palestine. | ||
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m4ini
4215 Posts
On July 25 2014 02:58 xDaunt wrote: Any sane Western government is going to support Israel. Regardless of whether you think Israel has wronged Palestine, the bottom line is that Israel is a fundamentally Western country than can be a reliable partner in trade and other affairs. You can't say that for Palestine. Obviously not. Want me to explain why that is, or do you just play dumb? | ||
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