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Isla Vista Shooting - Page 2

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Any PUA discussion is banned from page 42 and onwards.
Belisarius
Profile Joined November 2010
Australia6233 Posts
May 24 2014 23:44 GMT
#21
Pretty low of LA Times to name and shame the dude's poor father, imo.
Thereisnosaurus
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Australia1822 Posts
May 24 2014 23:50 GMT
#22
Some people are just broken and malfunction if left unfixed.


People are born into a society, which is in general terms a system designed to work for a wide distribution of users. As in any distribution, it suits some less than others due to circumstance. From a very cold, mechanical perspective, you are correct- this guy was a far outlier out on the edges of the curve, for whom the system was terribly inefficient at helping him achieve his desires. From that perspective he needed to be reconditioned and electro-shocked a bit until either he fit in better, or at least was vegetable enough not to be a threat.

Can you imagine, though, the kind of trauma and ongoing frustration that causes someone to snap and do this kind of thing? Perhaps not, the level of suffering is perhaps literally inconceivable, and because of that you assume that it did not exist, and somehow the existential equivalent of a toothache can drive someone to this if they are 'broken'. Madmen, from my perspective anyway, are not born, they are made, and they're made by the very same society that works fine for you and me. Events like this are a logical consequence of many cultural norms we're pretty comfortable perpetrating, putting sexuality and relationships on a high pedestal, then ostracizing and vilifying him for being frustrated at not being able to reach it. Even more toxic is the expectation that he, being a failure at the biggest status game in society, accept that as the reasonable and fair outcome rather than, say, doing what we expect 'real men' to do when the world is against them and make a stand. The expectation that he actively take part in his own dehumanization.

When all of these cultural expectations get messed up in someone's head, this is the result. In so far as anyone is responsible for their actions, he is and it sickens me to think that anyone could make those choices. But it also sickens me that the social gut reaction is not of shame and regret that our society wreaked such suffering on one of its members that they reached a state where they felt this was a legitimate course of action, but attempting to pass him off as some kind of sub-human who basically just needed to be erased and re-written. Do you have any idea how terrifying that attitude is for the mentally ill or ostracized who might read that, or the thousands of other similar sentiments flooding the net at the moment?

I wish I could just rage against people who do this sort of thing, but unfortunately, I think that kind of reaction will ultimately result in more events just like this. Westerners are deeply conditioned to respond to hostility and un-empathic judgement with aggression and the desire to prove themselves right, which is what happened here. Just a (fairly extended) thought.
Poisonous Sheep counter Hydras
Calanthe
Profile Joined October 2012
United States148 Posts
May 24 2014 23:50 GMT
#23
Agreed. Anything to get clicks, though, right?
my heart's the bitter buffalo
Sgany
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United Kingdom790 Posts
May 24 2014 23:54 GMT
#24
Gun regulation is not even the problem around this. The dark side of the friendzone myth. According to his self-taped confession, Elliot Rodger killed 7 people and injured 7 more in a shooting rampage because he was a virgin at 22 and saw girls "throwing themselves at obnoxious brutes" and decided there needed to be "retribution" for "every single blonde slut". This is a direct result of male entitlement and the idea that young men are in any way 'owed' sex. Sexism quite literally turned a young man into a homicidal maniac.
"You have denied me a happy life, and in turn, I will deny all of you life".

Maybe reconsider labelling feminists as whiney people who worry for no reason.
NaDa <3, MMA <3, Bisu <3,
Ettick
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States2434 Posts
May 25 2014 00:07 GMT
#25
What a fucking idiot. Almost unbelievable that people like this exist.
blade55555
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States17423 Posts
May 25 2014 00:09 GMT
#26
On May 25 2014 07:00 EarthwormJim wrote:
When will America change gun policy?

My heart goes out to your community.


Nothing will prevent it.

Gotta love people who don't think.


I feel bad for all the people shot and hope those bastards that did it suffer. So disgusting how some people are.
When I think of something else, something will go here
Sokrates
Profile Joined May 2012
738 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-25 00:15:19
May 25 2014 00:11 GMT
#27
On May 25 2014 08:50 Thereisnosaurus wrote:
Show nested quote +
Some people are just broken and malfunction if left unfixed.


People are born into a society, which is in general terms a system designed to work for a wide distribution of users. As in any distribution, it suits some less than others due to circumstance. From a very cold, mechanical perspective, you are correct- this guy was a far outlier out on the edges of the curve, for whom the system was terribly inefficient at helping him achieve his desires. From that perspective he needed to be reconditioned and electro-shocked a bit until either he fit in better, or at least was vegetable enough not to be a threat.

Can you imagine, though, the kind of trauma and ongoing frustration that causes someone to snap and do this kind of thing? Perhaps not, the level of suffering is perhaps literally inconceivable, and because of that you assume that it did not exist, and somehow the existential equivalent of a toothache can drive someone to this if they are 'broken'. Madmen, from my perspective anyway, are not born, they are made, and they're made by the very same society that works fine for you and me. Events like this are a logical consequence of many cultural norms we're pretty comfortable perpetrating, putting sexuality and relationships on a high pedestal, then ostracizing and vilifying him for being frustrated at not being able to reach it. Even more toxic is the expectation that he, being a failure at the biggest status game in society, accept that as the reasonable and fair outcome rather than, say, doing what we expect 'real men' to do when the world is against them and make a stand. The expectation that he actively take part in his own dehumanization.

When all of these cultural expectations get messed up in someone's head, this is the result. In so far as anyone is responsible for their actions, he is and it sickens me to think that anyone could make those choices. But it also sickens me that the social gut reaction is not of shame and regret that our society wreaked such suffering on one of its members that they reached a state where they felt this was a legitimate course of action, but attempting to pass him off as some kind of sub-human who basically just needed to be erased and re-written. Do you have any idea how terrifying that attitude is for the mentally ill or ostracized who might read that, or the thousands of other similar sentiments flooding the net at the moment?

I wish I could just rage against people who do this sort of thing, but unfortunately, I think that kind of reaction will ultimately result in more events just like this. Westerners are deeply conditioned to respond to hostility and un-empathic judgement with aggression and the desire to prove themselves right, which is what happened here. Just a (fairly extended) thought.



This guy was a complete and utter lunatic. Read his manifesto. This was FAR from being a guy pushed at the edge. This guy was mentally ill, he even felt he was entitled to win the super megajackpott lottery.

On May 25 2014 08:54 Sgany wrote:
Gun regulation is not even the problem around this. The dark side of the friendzone myth. According to his self-taped confession, Elliot Rodger killed 7 people and injured 7 more in a shooting rampage because he was a virgin at 22 and saw girls "throwing themselves at obnoxious brutes" and decided there needed to be "retribution" for "every single blonde slut". This is a direct result of male entitlement and the idea that young men are in any way 'owed' sex. Sexism quite literally turned a young man into a homicidal maniac.
"You have denied me a happy life, and in turn, I will deny all of you life".

Maybe reconsider labelling feminists as whiney people who worry for no reason.


No. He was insane not "sexism".
Otolia
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
France5805 Posts
May 25 2014 00:12 GMT
#28
On May 25 2014 08:54 Sgany wrote:
Gun regulation is not even the problem around this. The dark side of the friendzone myth. According to his self-taped confession, Elliot Rodger killed 7 people and injured 7 more in a shooting rampage because he was a virgin at 22 and saw girls "throwing themselves at obnoxious brutes" and decided there needed to be "retribution" for "every single blonde slut". This is a direct result of male entitlement and the idea that young men are in any way 'owed' sex. Sexism quite literally turned a young man into a homicidal maniac.
"You have denied me a happy life, and in turn, I will deny all of you life".

Maybe reconsider labelling feminists as whiney people who worry for no reason.

*sigh*

For once I thought we could get past the penis vs. vagina contest but it seems we can't. Feminism is a polarizing term and we should stop using it because it gives PUA and TRP weapons. We should never get into an arm's race with madmen and that's exactly what SJW are doing (one could argue that extremes are bound to meet somewhere)

If you truly want to change something, step up against street harassment, make sure your female co-workers are paid as much as you when expected and finally RAISE YOUR CHILDREN NOT TO BE FUCKING TWATS ! Only time will annihilate asocial behaviors and nothing else.
GozoShioda
Profile Joined October 2013
205 Posts
May 25 2014 00:19 GMT
#29
Okay now I'm a bit paranoid.

I know a guy exactly like this one (except he's not as rich as the one here), who I used to go to school with and he added me on Facebook one day.
My news feed every once in a while pops up with posts from him whose contents are EXTREMELY similar to the content of the youtube videos of the perpetrator in this case. I don't mean to be judgmental but I think it's pretty evident that this guy I know is a virgin since he never really socialized with people during school events and from my knowledge he never had a girlfriend. He always makes very passive aggressive posts on people's pictures on facebooks about how they are being "lewd" and "immoral"

What the fuck am I supposed to do in this situation? What the fuck is anyone supposed to do in this situation? Is the right choice to ignore it? What if this person ends up committing a similar crime and I end up living the rest of my life knowing I could have done something to prevent it? What if he does nothing and I'm just wasting my time worrying about it?
xDaunt
Profile Joined March 2010
United States17988 Posts
May 25 2014 00:27 GMT
#30
On May 25 2014 09:19 GozoShioda wrote:
Okay now I'm a bit paranoid.

I know a guy exactly like this one (except he's not as rich as the one here), who I used to go to school with and he added me on Facebook one day.
My news feed every once in a while pops up with posts from him whose contents are EXTREMELY similar to the content of the youtube videos of the perpetrator in this case. I don't mean to be judgmental but I think it's pretty evident that this guy I know is a virgin since he never really socialized with people during school events and from my knowledge he never had a girlfriend. He always makes very passive aggressive posts on people's pictures on facebooks about how they are being "lewd" and "immoral"

What the fuck am I supposed to do in this situation? What the fuck is anyone supposed to do in this situation? Is the right choice to ignore it? What if this person ends up committing a similar crime and I end up living the rest of my life knowing I could have done something to prevent it? What if he does nothing and I'm just wasting my time worrying about it?

It is not your business. It is up to his parents, family, and close friends to keep him in line.
Millitron
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2611 Posts
May 25 2014 00:30 GMT
#31
On May 25 2014 07:12 Thalandros wrote:
Dear lord. This needs to stop. Even the biggest conservatives have to see it anytime now...

Condolences to the families, another terrible tragedy :/

It happened in California, the state with possibly the strictest gun laws in the country.
Who called in the fleet?
FragKrag
Profile Blog Joined September 2007
United States11567 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-25 00:43:53
May 25 2014 00:43 GMT
#32
live stream: press conference with local police

http://www.keyt.com/news/LIVE-STREAM-Isla-Vista-Shooting/18055552
*TL CJ Entusman #40* "like scissors does anything to paper except MAKE IT MORE NUMEROUS" -paper
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-25 01:02:42
May 25 2014 00:53 GMT
#33
On May 25 2014 09:43 FragKrag wrote:
live stream: press conference with local police

http://www.keyt.com/news/LIVE-STREAM-Isla-Vista-Shooting/18055552

Some info for those not listening:
7 fatalities and 13 injured; 4 by the suspect vehicle, 8 gun shot and 1 sustained minor injury. 3 hand guns from suspect's vehicle. All legally purchased and all registered to the suspect. Had > 400 rounds of ammunition in his possession.

3 male victims in his apartment. They were stabbed. Still trying to identify them.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
AcrossFiveJulys
Profile Blog Joined September 2005
United States3612 Posts
May 25 2014 01:04 GMT
#34
His 100-page manifesto is available online: http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto

I read through most of it because I thought it would be valuable to understand how someone could go down this path, and also because I went to UCSB and am deeply saddened by this event. It was deeply disturbing. Overall, I think he had an inflated (and unfounded) sense of self-worth, and was confused and angry that people (mainly girls) did not take the initiative to serve his needs without any effort from him. He had an extremely warped understanding of people and how they perceive other people. In an effort to meet girls he would sit by himself in a restaurant for hours, and would go home frustrated that no girl came up to him to ask him on a date. He never figured out that as an individual, the ball is in your court to meet people. He wrote about social coaches and friends that tried to give him advice, but he was so fixated on his anger at seeing happy couples around him that he probably didn't listen or didn't process the advice they gave him. He didn't realize that extreme arrogance and rude behavior combined with ignorance is the worst combination of traits a person can have. No amount of hugo boss, armani, or expensive jeweley (which he was sure was the solution) can make up for this. This is why nobody wanted to be around him.

A particularly revealing event he described was a trip to London where he got VIP access to a Katy Perry concert due to family connections. When he was walking the "black carpet" amongst celebrities he spoke of people in the audience as "sheep" and mocked them. It seems he didn't realize how hypocritical his behavior was, as people dismissing him throughout his life was the root of his anger.

His frustration and anger snowballed until he finally decided that he needed to be extremely rich for people to desire him, and in hopes of getting rich he blew thousands of dollars on lottery tickets. He thought he was _meant_ to win. This alone sheds light on his underlying mental illness -- possibly some form of schizophrenia. When he failed to win, this was his breaking point, and he starting coming up with a detailed plan for his so-called "day of retribution."

Apparently his plan was to murder his little brother and step-mother, and then target the alpha phi sorority house in isla vista, and finally go on a rampage down del playa st. We know the third event happened. I just hope the first two events didn't.
BigFan
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
TLADT24920 Posts
May 25 2014 01:10 GMT
#35
On May 25 2014 10:04 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
His 100-page manifesto is available online: http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto

I read through most of it because I thought it would be valuable to understand how someone could go down this path, and also because I went to UCSB and am deeply saddened by this event. It was deeply disturbing. Overall, I think he had an inflated (and unfounded) sense of self-worth, and was confused and angry that people (mainly girls) did not take the initiative to serve his needs without any effort from him. He had an extremely warped understanding of people and how they perceive other people. In an effort to meet girls he would sit by himself in a restaurant for hours, and would go home frustrated that no girl came up to him to ask him on a date. He never figured out that as an individual, the ball is in your court to meet people. He wrote about social coaches and friends that tried to give him advice, but he was so fixated on his anger at seeing happy couples around him that he probably didn't listen or didn't process the advice they gave him. He didn't realize that extreme arrogance and rude behavior combined with ignorance is the worst combination of traits a person can have. No amount of hugo boss, armani, or expensive jeweley (which he was sure was the solution) can make up for this. This is why nobody wanted to be around him.

A particularly revealing event he described was a trip to London where he got VIP access to a Katy Perry concert due to family connections. When he was walking the "black carpet" amongst celebrities he spoke of people in the audience as "sheep" and mocked them. It seems he didn't realize how hypocritical his behavior was, as people dismissing him throughout his life was the root of his anger.

His frustration and anger snowballed until he finally decided that he needed to be extremely rich for people to desire him, and in hopes of getting rich he blew thousands of dollars on lottery tickets. He thought he was _meant_ to win. This alone sheds light on his underlying mental illness -- possibly some form of schizophrenia. When he failed to win, this was his breaking point, and he starting coming up with a detailed plan for his so-called "day of retribution."

Apparently his plan was to murder his little brother and step-mother, and then target the alpha phi sorority house in isla vista, and finally go on a rampage down del playa st. We know the third event happened. I just hope the first two events didn't.

how did you manage to find this? The police never mentioned anything about his little brother and step-mother so I think he just went to the sorority first. The stream just said this last part as well.
Former BW EiC"Watch Bakemonogatari or I will kill you." -Toad, April 18th, 2017
FiWiFaKi
Profile Blog Joined February 2009
Canada9859 Posts
May 25 2014 01:12 GMT
#36
Are these news really necessary?

Seems like local news. In Calgary 5 people got stabbed to death a few weeks back, this doesn't seem much different.
These events happen on more than a weekly basis throughout the western world, I don't think anything ever comes out of this discussion.

Either way, shitty to hear, hope as many involved are as okay as possible.
In life, the journey is more satisfying than the destination. || .::Entrepreneurship::. Living a few years of your life like most people won't, so that you can spend the rest of your life like most people can't || Mechanical Engineering & Economics Major
Sokrates
Profile Joined May 2012
738 Posts
May 25 2014 01:15 GMT
#37
On May 25 2014 10:10 BigFan wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 25 2014 10:04 AcrossFiveJulys wrote:
His 100-page manifesto is available online: http://www.scribd.com/doc/225960813/Elliot-Rodger-Santa-Barbara-mass-shooting-suspect-My-Twisted-World-manifesto

I read through most of it because I thought it would be valuable to understand how someone could go down this path, and also because I went to UCSB and am deeply saddened by this event. It was deeply disturbing. Overall, I think he had an inflated (and unfounded) sense of self-worth, and was confused and angry that people (mainly girls) did not take the initiative to serve his needs without any effort from him. He had an extremely warped understanding of people and how they perceive other people. In an effort to meet girls he would sit by himself in a restaurant for hours, and would go home frustrated that no girl came up to him to ask him on a date. He never figured out that as an individual, the ball is in your court to meet people. He wrote about social coaches and friends that tried to give him advice, but he was so fixated on his anger at seeing happy couples around him that he probably didn't listen or didn't process the advice they gave him. He didn't realize that extreme arrogance and rude behavior combined with ignorance is the worst combination of traits a person can have. No amount of hugo boss, armani, or expensive jeweley (which he was sure was the solution) can make up for this. This is why nobody wanted to be around him.

A particularly revealing event he described was a trip to London where he got VIP access to a Katy Perry concert due to family connections. When he was walking the "black carpet" amongst celebrities he spoke of people in the audience as "sheep" and mocked them. It seems he didn't realize how hypocritical his behavior was, as people dismissing him throughout his life was the root of his anger.

His frustration and anger snowballed until he finally decided that he needed to be extremely rich for people to desire him, and in hopes of getting rich he blew thousands of dollars on lottery tickets. He thought he was _meant_ to win. This alone sheds light on his underlying mental illness -- possibly some form of schizophrenia. When he failed to win, this was his breaking point, and he starting coming up with a detailed plan for his so-called "day of retribution."

Apparently his plan was to murder his little brother and step-mother, and then target the alpha phi sorority house in isla vista, and finally go on a rampage down del playa st. We know the third event happened. I just hope the first two events didn't.

how did you manage to find this? The police never mentioned anything about his little brother and step-mother so I think he just went to the sorority first. The stream just said this last part as well.


Is on 4chan for about 2hours (the manifesto).
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
May 25 2014 01:23 GMT
#38
On May 25 2014 10:12 FiWiFaKi wrote:
Are these news really necessary?

Seems like local news. In Calgary 5 people got stabbed to death a few weeks back, this doesn't seem much different.
These events happen on more than a weekly basis throughout the western world, I don't think anything ever comes out of this discussion.

Either way, shitty to hear, hope as many involved are as okay as possible.

Somewhat agree. Of course it's sad that people died, but people pretty much get stabbed and murdered and whatnot all the time. I'm not sure how newsworthy it is. For example if we compare the scale to something like what's going in in Ukraine.

Seems like it's just going to be derailed into a guns vs no guns discussion just like every other shooting thread.
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Calanthe
Profile Joined October 2012
United States148 Posts
May 25 2014 01:37 GMT
#39
Sometimes the world only cares about young white people.
my heart's the bitter buffalo
Seeker *
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Where dat snitch at?37120 Posts
May 25 2014 01:39 GMT
#40
My condolences... Wow... Another shooting incident
ModeratorPeople ask me, "Seeker, what are you seeking?" My answer? "Sleep, damn it! Always sleep!"
TL+ Member
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