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Any PUA discussion is banned from page 42 and onwards. |
On May 25 2014 16:06 Thereisnosaurus wrote:Show nested quote +but at the same time, you can't just absolve him of his crimes, just because you think that society is being unfair to him. Oh that's absolutely not what I'm trying to do. Personal responsibility is still a thing. In my book, you don't get excused from your actions for any reason, be it mental illness, inebriation, provocation, self defense, whatever. If you take an action, you are responsible for it. What worries me is the vilification and thoughtless (rather than thoughtful) anger that take place in the wake of these events may actually bring on the next one. My view is, while superficially humanist, fundamentally pragmatic. I think a more empathetic approach would mean more people like this would seek help or confide in their friends rather than being terrified of judgement and isolation, and that help and those friends would be more capable of dealing with someone like this in a constructive way. In some small way we netizens can be responsible and more restrained in our lashing out and contribute to that effort.
If you read any of the manifesto you would know he's been in therapy for years, his parents have put him through every type of life coaching and therapy available, and it did nothing. This isn't a case of someone being terrified of judgement and isolation, this is a case of a complete nut case not being apprehended before he had a melt down.
Empathising with a psychopath is fundamentally impossible, in much the same way that empathising with a lion or dog is. They're just too different from a functioning human to get in the head of. This goes both ways, meaning no amount of therapy will ever 'cure' a psychopath.
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On May 25 2014 07:00 EarthwormJim wrote:
When will America change gun policy?
My heart goes out to your community.
I agree. This would be much harder to do if he only had knives and clubs available.
Terrible thing, I am sad about all the people that got hurt 
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On May 25 2014 18:16 [X]Ken_D wrote:
If at 22, he can get a nice brand new BMW, he can have sex. Just pay for it! Prostitution in this case could had prevented murder. He might not have to relieve his sexual frustration via a gun.
The entitlement of sex due to his fortunate upbringing is disturbing.
I doubt it was only about sex.
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On May 25 2014 18:16 [X]Ken_D wrote:
If at 22, he can get a nice brand new BMW, he can have sex. Just pay for it! Prostitution in this case could had prevented murder. He might not have to relieve his sexual frustration via a gun.
The entitlement of sex due to his fortunate upbringing is disturbing.
Rich kid sitting in a new BMW his parents bought him talking about how life is unfair because women don't throw themselves at him.... Kills a bunch of people because of that? Don't think prostitutes could have fixed that much crazy.
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Here are some random notes from his manifest:
His parents divorced when he was 8 years old.
He realized that he wasn't one of the cool kids in school, he was shy and plain.
This decreased his self-esteem.
He was of a mixed race, half Asian, half White.
He reached puberty late and was usually shorter than most girls.
He realized that the girls only flocked around the obnoxious jerks and that the world doesn't reward gentlemen.
He was known as "The Quiet Kid".
Once, at a summer camp, he accidentally bumped into a pretty girl and the girl in turn got very angry: she cursed him and embarrassed him in front of his friends.
This experience traumatized him at the age of eleven.
Later he was teased and ridiculed by the girl he had a crush on.
He got bullied a lot in school from age 13 onwards which in turn made him even more shy.
Also, he had to change schools which made things more complicated for a shy kid.
He started playing lots of computer games, in particular he became a WoW addict.
He didn't have any skills other than WoW.
He had no friends and was very lonely which made him angrier and angrier.
He realized that no girl is ever going to have sex with him and he became envious of other people who did have sex. He wanted to punish those people who had sex.
This is when he started forming more and more radical ideas (age 16).
He started reading lots of books and started formulating philosophical ideas about the world.
He started blaming society and women for his rejections.
His envy rage led him to have his first killing fantasies at age 19.
He was a fan of Game of Thrones.
He started reading PUA and discovered the PUAHate.com website which intensified his hatred.
He saw himself as a beautiful and magnificent gentleman.
He set a date for the Day of Retribution. When it came closer he said to himself:
"I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter."
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On May 25 2014 18:20 bo1b wrote:
If you read any of the manifesto you would know he's been in therapy for years, his parents have put him through every type of life coaching and therapy available, and it did nothing. This isn't a case of someone being terrified of judgement and isolation, this is a case of a complete nut case not being apprehended before he had a melt down.
Empathising with a psychopath is fundamentally impossible, in much the same way that empathising with a lion or dog is. They're just too different from a functioning human to get in the head of. This goes both ways, meaning no amount of therapy will ever 'cure' a psychopath.
And who has ever felt sorry for the misfortunes of a pet? Look at their fur! Their paws! How could they possibly think like me?
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On May 25 2014 18:16 [X]Ken_D wrote:
If at 22, he can get a nice brand new BMW, he can have sex. Just pay for it! Prostitution in this case could had prevented murder. He might not have to relieve his sexual frustration via a gun.
The entitlement of sex due to his fortunate upbringing is disturbing.
I think that would not work for him since I think his problem was more that he wanted someone to want to have sex with him, otherwise he could just have gone on a rape-spree instead.
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First Philip Seymour now this. That movie series is cursed.
"Officers found him to be a 'perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human'" WOAH
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On May 25 2014 20:37 urboss wrote:
Here are some random notes from his manifest:
His parents divorced when he was 8 years old.
He realized that he wasn't one of the cool kids in school, he was shy and plain.
This decreased his self-esteem.
He was of a mixed race, half Asian, half White.
He reached puberty late and was usually shorter than most girls.
He realized that the girls only flocked around the obnoxious jerks and that the world doesn't reward gentlemen.
He was known as "The Quiet Kid".
Once, at a summer camp, he accidentally bumped into a pretty girl and the girl in turn got very angry: she cursed him and embarrassed him in front of his friends.
This experience traumatized him at the age of eleven.
Later he was teased and ridiculed by the girl he had a crush on.
He got bullied a lot in school from age 13 onwards which in turn made him even more shy.
Also, he had to change schools which made things more complicated for a shy kid.
He started playing lots of computer games, in particular he became a WoW addict.
He didn't have any skills other than WoW.
He had no friends and was very lonely which made him angrier and angrier.
He realized that no girl is ever going to have sex with him and he became envious of other people who did have sex. He wanted to punish those people who had sex.
This is when he started forming more and more radical ideas (age 16).
He started reading lots of books and started formulating philosophical ideas about the world.
He started blaming society and women for his rejections.
His envy rage led him to have his first killing fantasies at age 19.
He was a fan of Game of Thrones.
He started reading PUA and discovered the PUAHate.com website which intensified his hatred.
He saw himself as a beautiful and magnificent gentleman.
He set a date for the Day of Retribution. When it came closer he said to himself:
"I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter."
Some of these mirror my life eerily closely. Although at the end he was off the deep end I'm sure there was a time before that in which he could have had a different path and ended up a very different person.
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On May 25 2014 21:03 PVJ wrote:
"Officers found him to be a 'perfectly polite, kind and wonderful human'" WOAH
How is that surprising ? This guy apparently had numerous therapies, and none proved successful. It's very easy to hide who you truely are, faking politeness is probably the easiest form of that.
Now I wonder why people try so hard to rationalize how this happened. Would seems to me as some form of distanciation. It really makes me think of a book, which title is, in french "La part de l'autre". Seems like there's no english translation, which is a shame. It's about Hitler, with the underlying idea that, although people wants to see him as a monster, was just a human being. A string of complicated events/reactions, and boom, drama. Not much to get out of these stories (back to this Elliot guy) except that shit happens...
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This might be a controversial post but I am going to say it anyway:
Of course the guy had serious mental issues but upon reading most of his 140-page manifesto for last two hours, it is clear that monster in him was a product of an ugly, failed marriage between two very opportunistic and vain people. The British father is money-hungry director in Hollywood while his biological Chinese mother is an opportunistic woman who constantly seeks out new rich men to date and continue her lifestyle. He is, in fact, a product of unplanned pregnancy between these two people whose relationship probably distilled down to pure carnal desire and greed for money. As he is subjected to an ugly divorce and childhood that is bereft of genuine parental care and love, he only knows life as he sees in the glamours yet empty culture of LA -- as measured purely by how much money one has and how much sex one is getting.
So when he sees that he is not measuring up to these standards, compounded with identity issues, he undergoes severe depression and resorts to such horrific actions. This is why I view many white male-asian female marriages with some skepticism as I suspect that many of these unions are essentially driven purely by sexual fetishism from the male and financial opportunism (and perhaps some fetishization too) from the female. And their son, who is seen to by society as being more Asian than White, exists only because the Asian man was deemed insufficient and un-masculine by his own mother, yet he lives as a Asian male. Very similar thoughts are expressed by people with AF/WM parents here:
http://stuffeurasianslike.wordpress.com/
http://halfasianhalfdead.wordpress.com/
Of course, I am sure there also exist genuinely loving couples who are AF/WM, and I give my full blessings to them and their children who might not have such deep-seated issues.
Also to reiterate, the guy obviously has severe mental issues that led to the shooting, but you cannot deny that there are serious underlying cultural/social problems that compounded or perhaps contributed to these psychiatric issues.
Also looking at the similarities between this guy's life and Cho Seung-hee's, I definitely think there needs to be an initiative to really help kids fit in better in school; the teenage years can be a brutal time if you are not part of the "crowd," and the pressures to fit in, especially as a young person undergoing puberty, can be truly traumatizing. Of course, the vast majority of those who suffer through this do not become mass murderers (this issue needs to be compounded by some sort of mental instability) but I do think this would be a very worthwhile issue to be put to the front, as we can also seek to lessen the agony of many many kids.
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On May 25 2014 21:50 puppykiller wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 20:37 urboss wrote:
Here are some random notes from his manifest:
His parents divorced when he was 8 years old.
He realized that he wasn't one of the cool kids in school, he was shy and plain.
This decreased his self-esteem.
He was of a mixed race, half Asian, half White.
He reached puberty late and was usually shorter than most girls.
He realized that the girls only flocked around the obnoxious jerks and that the world doesn't reward gentlemen.
He was known as "The Quiet Kid".
Once, at a summer camp, he accidentally bumped into a pretty girl and the girl in turn got very angry: she cursed him and embarrassed him in front of his friends.
This experience traumatized him at the age of eleven.
Later he was teased and ridiculed by the girl he had a crush on.
He got bullied a lot in school from age 13 onwards which in turn made him even more shy.
Also, he had to change schools which made things more complicated for a shy kid.
He started playing lots of computer games, in particular he became a WoW addict.
He didn't have any skills other than WoW.
He had no friends and was very lonely which made him angrier and angrier.
He realized that no girl is ever going to have sex with him and he became envious of other people who did have sex. He wanted to punish those people who had sex.
This is when he started forming more and more radical ideas (age 16).
He started reading lots of books and started formulating philosophical ideas about the world.
He started blaming society and women for his rejections.
His envy rage led him to have his first killing fantasies at age 19.
He was a fan of Game of Thrones.
He started reading PUA and discovered the PUAHate.com website which intensified his hatred.
He saw himself as a beautiful and magnificent gentleman.
He set a date for the Day of Retribution. When it came closer he said to himself:
"I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter." Some of these mirror my life eerily closely. Although at the end he was off the deep end I'm sure there was a time before that in which he could have had a different path and ended up a very different person.
Sure, I'm certain that there are millions of people out there with the same kind of story.
Most of them will cope eventually.
I'm not even sure that there is something wrong with his mind per se as many people say.
Most likely he was quite intelligent and as he says himself, he had a perfectly normal and happy childhood. Things only started going wrong when he got into puberty.
A series of events triggered some weird thought process inside of him.
And every new event led him to intensify that thought process.
So circular thinking made him to view the world in a certain way from which he had no way of getting out of.
Which makes me wonder:
How many people are out there that have a similarly screwed up thought process and just lack the determination and opportunity to execute it?
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On May 25 2014 22:07 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 21:50 puppykiller wrote:On May 25 2014 20:37 urboss wrote:
Here are some random notes from his manifest:
His parents divorced when he was 8 years old.
He realized that he wasn't one of the cool kids in school, he was shy and plain.
This decreased his self-esteem.
He was of a mixed race, half Asian, half White.
He reached puberty late and was usually shorter than most girls.
He realized that the girls only flocked around the obnoxious jerks and that the world doesn't reward gentlemen.
He was known as "The Quiet Kid".
Once, at a summer camp, he accidentally bumped into a pretty girl and the girl in turn got very angry: she cursed him and embarrassed him in front of his friends.
This experience traumatized him at the age of eleven.
Later he was teased and ridiculed by the girl he had a crush on.
He got bullied a lot in school from age 13 onwards which in turn made him even more shy.
Also, he had to change schools which made things more complicated for a shy kid.
He started playing lots of computer games, in particular he became a WoW addict.
He didn't have any skills other than WoW.
He had no friends and was very lonely which made him angrier and angrier.
He realized that no girl is ever going to have sex with him and he became envious of other people who did have sex. He wanted to punish those people who had sex.
This is when he started forming more and more radical ideas (age 16).
He started reading lots of books and started formulating philosophical ideas about the world.
He started blaming society and women for his rejections.
His envy rage led him to have his first killing fantasies at age 19.
He was a fan of Game of Thrones.
He started reading PUA and discovered the PUAHate.com website which intensified his hatred.
He saw himself as a beautiful and magnificent gentleman.
He set a date for the Day of Retribution. When it came closer he said to himself:
"I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter." Some of these mirror my life eerily closely. Although at the end he was off the deep end I'm sure there was a time before that in which he could have had a different path and ended up a very different person. Sure, I'm certain that there are millions of people out there with the same kind of story. Most of them will cope eventually. I'm not even sure that there is something wrong with his mind per se as many people say. Most likely he was quite intelligent and as he says himself, he had a perfectly normal and happy childhood. Things only started going wrong when he got into puberty. A series of events triggered some weird thought process inside of him. And every new event led him to intensify that thought process. So circular thinking made him to view the world in a certain way from which he had no way of getting out of. Which makes me wonder: How many people are out there that have a similarly screwed up thought process and just lack the determination and opportunity to execute it?
I've seen report of him having Asperger syndrome. Now I'm not fond of these "boxes" to fit people in when it comes to psychology, but it's pretty clear when you watch his videos that there's a pattern of thinking that keeps repeating itself, in an obssessive form. If you think about it in a pure synaptic way, repeating the same stuff reinforces linked connections.
But again, just a piece of a very complicated puzzle....
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On May 25 2014 22:16 Cynry wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 22:07 urboss wrote:On May 25 2014 21:50 puppykiller wrote:On May 25 2014 20:37 urboss wrote:
Here are some random notes from his manifest:
His parents divorced when he was 8 years old.
He realized that he wasn't one of the cool kids in school, he was shy and plain.
This decreased his self-esteem.
He was of a mixed race, half Asian, half White.
He reached puberty late and was usually shorter than most girls.
He realized that the girls only flocked around the obnoxious jerks and that the world doesn't reward gentlemen.
He was known as "The Quiet Kid".
Once, at a summer camp, he accidentally bumped into a pretty girl and the girl in turn got very angry: she cursed him and embarrassed him in front of his friends.
This experience traumatized him at the age of eleven.
Later he was teased and ridiculed by the girl he had a crush on.
He got bullied a lot in school from age 13 onwards which in turn made him even more shy.
Also, he had to change schools which made things more complicated for a shy kid.
He started playing lots of computer games, in particular he became a WoW addict.
He didn't have any skills other than WoW.
He had no friends and was very lonely which made him angrier and angrier.
He realized that no girl is ever going to have sex with him and he became envious of other people who did have sex. He wanted to punish those people who had sex.
This is when he started forming more and more radical ideas (age 16).
He started reading lots of books and started formulating philosophical ideas about the world.
He started blaming society and women for his rejections.
His envy rage led him to have his first killing fantasies at age 19.
He was a fan of Game of Thrones.
He started reading PUA and discovered the PUAHate.com website which intensified his hatred.
He saw himself as a beautiful and magnificent gentleman.
He set a date for the Day of Retribution. When it came closer he said to himself:
"I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter." Some of these mirror my life eerily closely. Although at the end he was off the deep end I'm sure there was a time before that in which he could have had a different path and ended up a very different person. Sure, I'm certain that there are millions of people out there with the same kind of story. Most of them will cope eventually. I'm not even sure that there is something wrong with his mind per se as many people say. Most likely he was quite intelligent and as he says himself, he had a perfectly normal and happy childhood. Things only started going wrong when he got into puberty. A series of events triggered some weird thought process inside of him. And every new event led him to intensify that thought process. So circular thinking made him to view the world in a certain way from which he had no way of getting out of. Which makes me wonder: How many people are out there that have a similarly screwed up thought process and just lack the determination and opportunity to execute it? I've seen report of him having Asperger syndrome. Now I'm not fond of these "boxes" to fit people in when it comes to psychology, but it's pretty clear when you watch his videos that there's a pattern of thinking that keeps repeating itself, in an obssessive form. If you think about it in a pure synaptic way, repeating the same stuff reinforces linked connections. But again, just a piece of a very complicated puzzle....
Well, Asperger Syndrome doesn't say a whole lot.
The term itself is not even used anymore because there are many different levels of autism.
About 1 in 100 people do have some form autism, which is about 70 million people in this world.
Most often autism is not even diagnosed as a defect.
But you are right, the propensity to think in repeating patterns may be genetically defined.
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On May 25 2014 22:25 urboss wrote:Show nested quote +On May 25 2014 22:16 Cynry wrote:On May 25 2014 22:07 urboss wrote:On May 25 2014 21:50 puppykiller wrote:On May 25 2014 20:37 urboss wrote:
Here are some random notes from his manifest:
His parents divorced when he was 8 years old.
He realized that he wasn't one of the cool kids in school, he was shy and plain.
This decreased his self-esteem.
He was of a mixed race, half Asian, half White.
He reached puberty late and was usually shorter than most girls.
He realized that the girls only flocked around the obnoxious jerks and that the world doesn't reward gentlemen.
He was known as "The Quiet Kid".
Once, at a summer camp, he accidentally bumped into a pretty girl and the girl in turn got very angry: she cursed him and embarrassed him in front of his friends.
This experience traumatized him at the age of eleven.
Later he was teased and ridiculed by the girl he had a crush on.
He got bullied a lot in school from age 13 onwards which in turn made him even more shy.
Also, he had to change schools which made things more complicated for a shy kid.
He started playing lots of computer games, in particular he became a WoW addict.
He didn't have any skills other than WoW.
He had no friends and was very lonely which made him angrier and angrier.
He realized that no girl is ever going to have sex with him and he became envious of other people who did have sex. He wanted to punish those people who had sex.
This is when he started forming more and more radical ideas (age 16).
He started reading lots of books and started formulating philosophical ideas about the world.
He started blaming society and women for his rejections.
His envy rage led him to have his first killing fantasies at age 19.
He was a fan of Game of Thrones.
He started reading PUA and discovered the PUAHate.com website which intensified his hatred.
He saw himself as a beautiful and magnificent gentleman.
He set a date for the Day of Retribution. When it came closer he said to himself:
"I will be a god, and they will all be animals that I can slaughter." Some of these mirror my life eerily closely. Although at the end he was off the deep end I'm sure there was a time before that in which he could have had a different path and ended up a very different person. Sure, I'm certain that there are millions of people out there with the same kind of story. Most of them will cope eventually. I'm not even sure that there is something wrong with his mind per se as many people say. Most likely he was quite intelligent and as he says himself, he had a perfectly normal and happy childhood. Things only started going wrong when he got into puberty. A series of events triggered some weird thought process inside of him. And every new event led him to intensify that thought process. So circular thinking made him to view the world in a certain way from which he had no way of getting out of. Which makes me wonder: How many people are out there that have a similarly screwed up thought process and just lack the determination and opportunity to execute it? I've seen report of him having Asperger syndrome. Now I'm not fond of these "boxes" to fit people in when it comes to psychology, but it's pretty clear when you watch his videos that there's a pattern of thinking that keeps repeating itself, in an obssessive form. If you think about it in a pure synaptic way, repeating the same stuff reinforces linked connections. But again, just a piece of a very complicated puzzle.... Well, Asperger Syndrome doesn't say a whole lot. The term itself is not even used anymore because there are many different levels of autism. About 1 in 100 people do have some form autism, which is about 70 million people in this world. Most often autism is not even diagnosed as a defect.
That's exactly why I don't like these boxes. I was just pointing out that some people used that as a convenient excuse, and that he indeed had some form of obssessive repetition of his thoughts, which I think was part of the symptoms of said syndrom.
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On May 25 2014 18:16 [X]Ken_D wrote:
If at 22, he can get a nice brand new BMW, he can have sex. Just pay for it! Prostitution in this case could had prevented murder. He might not have to relieve his sexual frustration via a gun.
The entitlement of sex due to his fortunate upbringing is disturbing.
Someone like him wouldn't deign to pay for sex - that's well below him. In his mind, he should be offered sex because he is sophisticated, rich, dresses well, such a catch, etc.
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Reminds me of that movie "American Psycho"
Blonde chicks can't fix crazy.
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Can we stop murdering each other? We have electricity and plumbing...
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Wow, those videos are very strange. The weird movie villain laughs and rhetoric make it seem so surreal that he actually went out and did it.
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EPT
