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On June 02 2014 20:31 either I or wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 15:11 ninazerg wrote:On June 02 2014 14:31 - special tactics - wrote:
What is PUA?
Is amazing that America think it is difficult problem, when it is only country to happen like this problem. They should look at what is wrong with society why this happen. That's easy to say, but every country has psychopaths. It's not an "American" problem so much as it is a society problem. Anyone is capable of doing very evil things, and I wonder why it surprises anyone when someone decides to go that route. I think he was referring to the combination of psychological problem and mass shootings, which is actually an American problem. Going with your points, it is true that this could happen to everyone, but the mere fact that this happens only in America makes this an American problem and thus reviewing this matter must look into the nature of American first and foremost.
You should probably spend a few min on google before you label this as an "American" problem. Mass murders can happen anywhere. And while mass shootings are popularly associated with the US, it's doesn't exclusively occur there.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
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On June 03 2014 01:22 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 02 2014 20:31 either I or wrote:On June 02 2014 15:11 ninazerg wrote:On June 02 2014 14:31 - special tactics - wrote:
What is PUA?
Is amazing that America think it is difficult problem, when it is only country to happen like this problem. They should look at what is wrong with society why this happen. That's easy to say, but every country has psychopaths. It's not an "American" problem so much as it is a society problem. Anyone is capable of doing very evil things, and I wonder why it surprises anyone when someone decides to go that route. I think he was referring to the combination of psychological problem and mass shootings, which is actually an American problem. Going with your points, it is true that this could happen to everyone, but the mere fact that this happens only in America makes this an American problem and thus reviewing this matter must look into the nature of American first and foremost. You should probably spend a few min on google before you label this as an "American" problem. Mass murders can happen anywhere. And while mass shootings are popularly associated with the US, it's doesn't exclusively occur there. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers
http://www.mibazaar.com/schoolshootings/
I posted this map before, but I'll post it again. it actually is an American problem. The number of schoolshootings in the last 10-15 years in the US is larger than the number of all other school shootings around the world combined.
I don't know why you're posting a link about "home intruders" or "hate crimes" that's not what this thread is about.
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On June 03 2014 01:26 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:22 MstrJinbo wrote:On June 02 2014 20:31 either I or wrote:On June 02 2014 15:11 ninazerg wrote:On June 02 2014 14:31 - special tactics - wrote:
What is PUA?
Is amazing that America think it is difficult problem, when it is only country to happen like this problem. They should look at what is wrong with society why this happen. That's easy to say, but every country has psychopaths. It's not an "American" problem so much as it is a society problem. Anyone is capable of doing very evil things, and I wonder why it surprises anyone when someone decides to go that route. I think he was referring to the combination of psychological problem and mass shootings, which is actually an American problem. Going with your points, it is true that this could happen to everyone, but the mere fact that this happens only in America makes this an American problem and thus reviewing this matter must look into the nature of American first and foremost. You should probably spend a few min on google before you label this as an "American" problem. Mass murders can happen anywhere. And while mass shootings are popularly associated with the US, it's doesn't exclusively occur there. http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers http://www.mibazaar.com/schoolshootings/I posted this map before, but I'll post it again. it actually is an American problem. The number of schoolshootings in the last 10-15 years in the US is larger than the number of all other school shootings around the world combined. I don't know why you're posting a link about "home intruders" or "hate crimes" that's not what this thread is about.
The only point I'm making here is that mass killings incidents, including one involving firearms, are not an exclusively american problem. I'm not saying they are not a problem in America, or that they they are less of a problem in America than elsewhere.
My link is about mass killing incidents, which would sadly now include the Isla Vista one, not sure why you don't think it's relevant.
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Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture.
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On June 03 2014 01:42 MstrJinbo wrote:
My link is about mass killing incidents, which would sadly now include the Isla Vista one, not sure why you don't think it's relevant.
Because we're talking about a very specific kind of "mass killing" here. This is not about ex military guys gone mad or familicides or workplace killings. It's about young adults cracking up and committing mass murder. You're trying to dilute the problem.
On June 03 2014 01:44 urboss wrote:
Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture.
That seems indeed to be the case. I could only find 4 incidents listed for China and one for Russia. Also again there's a correlation between the number of weapons per capita and the frequency of the shootings. ~90/100 in the US, ~30/100 in Europe, 8/100 Russia, 5/100 China.
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On June 03 2014 01:44 urboss wrote:
Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture.
From what I can tell, data in the map comes from news reports (I presume, news reports written in English specifically). So it might be the case that incidents in non-English speaking regions are getting under reported.
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I just watched the Barbara Walters interview with the father last night. Didn't even know this incident took place..... guess I need to turn on my TV more often.
This kid was obsessed with white people. He even asked his parents to take him to get his hair bleach when he was like 8 to fit in with cool kids at school. He's only interested in white girls, especially blondes. Dude would still be a raging psychopath if Beyonce threw herself on his lap. Many those couples that pissed him off in his manifesto were focused on:
> Jocks with white girls - stereotypical alpha-males like Alexander Ludwig that he's envious of
> Black men with white girls - "I am descended from British aristocracy. He is descended from slaves."
> Asian men with white girls - "Full Asian men are disgustingly ugly."
> Hispanic men with white girls - "How could an inferior Mexican guy be able to date a white blonde girl..."
> Indian men with white girls - or more specifically Indian guy in a Honda Civic with a white girl. Obviously puny Honda Civic is inferior to his BMW.
I'm not a psychologist or psychiatrist, and the cynic in me says the whole hot blonde girlfriend thing is all about STATUS to him. White-envy is not uncommon with Asians. (excuse me, half Asians. heh). Come on, it's not like popping his cherry with Jennifer Lawrence will cure his mental illness; he would just find the next thing to rage about.
On May 30 2014 22:31 Cynry wrote:
One thing for sure, he did achieve attracting a huge amount of attention. Don't know if it's for the better or worse, but he probably changed some people's mind a bit.
Yea, of course it's about attention. He wanted to kill himself for a while. Lonely, angry about being a virgin, his last hope of being a millionaire to attract blondes did not pan out. But the problem (to him) with a quiet suicide - at most his story would appear on local news about some college kid committing suicide, minor local news for one day, and that would be it. Not enough attention! Nobody cares about wimpy double kill. Ultra kill, and especially RAMPAGE!!! in big red letters is where it's at.
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Yeah the guy had obvious psychological problems.
Not sure what autism has anything to do with this though.
He was taking psychotropic medications and refused to take them. Although I don't agree that this was what caused it. He had a very immature understanding of what attraction really is, possibly due to his isolation from social life.
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On June 03 2014 01:59 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:42 MstrJinbo wrote:
My link is about mass killing incidents, which would sadly now include the Isla Vista one, not sure why you don't think it's relevant.
Because we're talking about a very specific kind of "mass killing" here. This is not about ex military guys gone mad or familicides or workplace killings. It's about young adults cracking up and committing mass murder. You're trying to dilute the problem. Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:44 urboss wrote:
Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture. That seems indeed to be the case. I could only find 4 incidents listed for China and one for Russia. Also again there's a correlation between the number of weapons per capita and the frequency of the shootings. ~90/100 in the US, ~30/100 in Europe, 8/100 Russia, 5/100 China.
Ironically, Russia had a ridiculous murder rate in the 90s, but anyone who knows anything about that dystopian decade shouldn't be surprised. Available firearms per capita is one thing, but culture is certainly another. Most of the countries with extremely high guns per capita are relatively peaceful, excluding the US, Yemen, post-2003 Iraq, and maybe another place or two in the top 20 or so. Why are European countries with so many guns so much more peaceful? Well, they aren't dominated by gang/rap related culture that glorifies crime and murder like a cool thug kind of thing to do among other very harmful influences. Also, people in those parts tend to be a lot more intelligent of the severity of violence and murder. Knowing that also tends to be a part of the culture, and in fact, is an integral part of their history.
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On June 30 2014 04:09 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:59 Nyxisto wrote:On June 03 2014 01:42 MstrJinbo wrote:
My link is about mass killing incidents, which would sadly now include the Isla Vista one, not sure why you don't think it's relevant.
Because we're talking about a very specific kind of "mass killing" here. This is not about ex military guys gone mad or familicides or workplace killings. It's about young adults cracking up and committing mass murder. You're trying to dilute the problem. On June 03 2014 01:44 urboss wrote:
Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture. That seems indeed to be the case. I could only find 4 incidents listed for China and one for Russia. Also again there's a correlation between the number of weapons per capita and the frequency of the shootings. ~90/100 in the US, ~30/100 in Europe, 8/100 Russia, 5/100 China. Ironically, Russia had a ridiculous murder rate in the 90s, but anyone who knows anything about that dystopian decade shouldn't be surprised. Available firearms per capita is one thing, but culture is certainly another. Most of the countries with extremely high guns per capita are relatively peaceful, excluding the US, Yemen, post-2003 Iraq, and maybe another place or two in the top 20 or so. Why are European countries with so many guns so much more peaceful? Well, they aren't dominated by gang/rap related culture that glorifies crime and murder like a cool thug kind of thing to do among other very harmful influences. Also, people in those parts tend to be a lot more intelligent of the severity of violence and murder. Knowing that also tends to be a part of the culture, and in fact, is an integral part of their history.
Its the media, they shouldn't have blown this killing as much as they should. They should've only covered it for a little bit and then move on.
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On June 30 2014 00:32 Gotlander wrote:
Yeah the guy had obvious psychological problems.
Not sure what autism has anything to do with this though.
He was taking psychotropic medications and refused to take them. Although I don't agree that this was what caused it. He had a very immature understanding of what attraction really is, possibly due to his isolation from social life.
Check out this article. Autism is a recuring theme in these incidents. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178914000305
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On June 30 2014 04:44 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 04:09 JudicatorHammurabi wrote:On June 03 2014 01:59 Nyxisto wrote:On June 03 2014 01:42 MstrJinbo wrote:
My link is about mass killing incidents, which would sadly now include the Isla Vista one, not sure why you don't think it's relevant.
Because we're talking about a very specific kind of "mass killing" here. This is not about ex military guys gone mad or familicides or workplace killings. It's about young adults cracking up and committing mass murder. You're trying to dilute the problem. On June 03 2014 01:44 urboss wrote:
Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture. That seems indeed to be the case. I could only find 4 incidents listed for China and one for Russia. Also again there's a correlation between the number of weapons per capita and the frequency of the shootings. ~90/100 in the US, ~30/100 in Europe, 8/100 Russia, 5/100 China. Ironically, Russia had a ridiculous murder rate in the 90s, but anyone who knows anything about that dystopian decade shouldn't be surprised. Available firearms per capita is one thing, but culture is certainly another. Most of the countries with extremely high guns per capita are relatively peaceful, excluding the US, Yemen, post-2003 Iraq, and maybe another place or two in the top 20 or so. Why are European countries with so many guns so much more peaceful? Well, they aren't dominated by gang/rap related culture that glorifies crime and murder like a cool thug kind of thing to do among other very harmful influences. Also, people in those parts tend to be a lot more intelligent of the severity of violence and murder. Knowing that also tends to be a part of the culture, and in fact, is an integral part of their history. Its the media, they shouldn't have blown this killing as much as they should. They should've only covered it for a little bit and then move on.
If people would stop watching, the media would stop covering it.
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While reducing the time spent on this coverage would be nice I don't think it's a cause.
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On June 30 2014 05:23 heliusx wrote:
While reducing the time spent on this coverage would be nice I don't think it's a cause.
Yeah I don't think you could blame coverage as a cause, perhaps a positive reinforcement, but even that is a bit of a stretch with a minimum of journalistic responsibility.
I think the semi weekly school shootings are more of a result of mental stress. Some of the stress is familial, some social, and some internal.
The source or motivation of the stress varies from shooter to shooter but almost 100% of them were on and off mood altering medication not tested on children (so basically we have almost no clue what it does to their brain chemistry).
These shootings are unquestionably a cultural issue. Not a single cultural issue but many. The prevalence of guns contributes, but is far from the primary issue. You can look at pretty much every aspect of these shooters lives and see how there was a culture which breeds malcontent. Obviously shooters tend to have some abnormal psychiatric condition that when compounded with the normal day to day BS results in outlashes like this tragedy (instead of your typical rebellion or 'acting-out').
Regardless without looking at society at large we'll never make any progress on these issues. If we continue to think the drastically disproportionate rate at which this happens in the US is just a coincidence unrelated to the world these kids are growing up in, we'll continue to ignore sensible changes and advocate some ridiculous ones.
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On May 29 2014 03:38 Figgy wrote:
The kid was clearly unstable.
If you read his manifesto he wouldn't actually go up to women and ask them to go up with him or anything of the sorts EVER.
He would just randomly wander town for absurd amounts of time (6 hours!) or lounge around in random restaraunts and expect women to come up with him and tell him to have sex with him and get extremely angry when it doesn't happen.
You can really tell he was extremely socially awkward and instead of trying to fix his problem he decided to blame everyone else including the other men for "taking what he deserved", he thought that he was a perfect human being while everyone else was completely wrong.
His belief was that women should throw themself on him because he "deserved" it and they should have no control over their own sex lives whatsoever. He goes so far to say that women should be locked up and be forced to only give sex to guys who "deserve it" and fuck everyone else and that he'd be the supreme ruler of this government and the reason it can't happen is because women have too many rights in this country over their own god damn body.
He's was utterly fucked up in the head and he wrote down every single fucked up thought he ever had.
Being a virgin at 22 isn't even that uncommon it's not like he was 40 years old you can't even make a porn until you're 18.
I was going to read it one day but thanks for that summary. That's unbelievable
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On June 30 2014 05:00 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 00:32 Gotlander wrote:
Yeah the guy had obvious psychological problems.
Not sure what autism has anything to do with this though.
He was taking psychotropic medications and refused to take them. Although I don't agree that this was what caused it. He had a very immature understanding of what attraction really is, possibly due to his isolation from social life. Check out this article. Autism is a recuring theme in these incidents. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178914000305
So are you saying that there is a link between autism and mass shootings/murders?
The Columbine murderers were not autistic. Unless there is a scientific study that links autism with mass shootings, I wont believe this claim.
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On June 30 2014 05:00 heliusx wrote:Show nested quote +On June 30 2014 00:32 Gotlander wrote:
Yeah the guy had obvious psychological problems.
Not sure what autism has anything to do with this though.
He was taking psychotropic medications and refused to take them. Although I don't agree that this was what caused it. He had a very immature understanding of what attraction really is, possibly due to his isolation from social life. Check out this article. Autism is a recuring theme in these incidents. http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1359178914000305
Eliot Rodger's aspergers was misreported. He was never diagnosed.
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On June 03 2014 02:09 MstrJinbo wrote:Show nested quote +On June 03 2014 01:44 urboss wrote:
Given this map is correct, then Russia and most eastern countries don't seem to have any schoolschotings at all.
So I guess one could attribute this phenomenon to the western culture. From what I can tell, data in the map comes from news reports (I presume, news reports written in English specifically). So it might be the case that incidents in non-English speaking regions are getting under reported.
I dont think this is the case. Media in Eastern Europe love mass murders just like media in USA. I think that mass shootings dont happen here mostly because its very hard to get a gun.
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EPT
