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United States42884 Posts
On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess.
Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist.
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On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist.
Of course it's possible that the popular tumblr-feminism has clouded my perception of actual feminism. But then the problem isn't so much my own perception but the fact that so many people self-identify as feminists and advance arguments and viewpoints in the name of feminism, that at least according to you have nothing to do with feminism.
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On May 27 2014 01:56 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Of course it's possible that the popular tumblr-feminism has clouded my perception of actual feminism. But then the problem isn't so much my own perception but the fact that so many people self-identify as feminists and advance arguments and viewpoints in the name of feminism, that at least according to you have nothing to do with feminism.
So since you're anti-feminist to some degree we can characterize you with the worst elements of misogyny?
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On May 27 2014 02:01 Jormundr wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:56 SlixSC wrote:On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Of course it's possible that the popular tumblr-feminism has clouded my perception of actual feminism. But then the problem isn't so much my own perception but the fact that so many people self-identify as feminists and advance arguments and viewpoints in the name of feminism, that at least according to you have nothing to do with feminism. So since you're anti-feminist to some degree we can characterize you with the worst elements of misogyny?
No that wouldn't make any sense because I don't self-identify as anti-feminist. Your logic is seriously flawed here.
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On May 27 2014 01:56 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Of course it's possible that the popular tumblr-feminism has clouded my perception of actual feminism. But then the problem isn't so much my own perception but the fact that so many people self-identify as feminists and advance arguments and viewpoints in the name of feminism, that at least according to you have nothing to do with feminism.
The problem is that feminism doesn't really have a set agenda anymore. There's a general consenus for gender equality but nobody can define what equality is or what we would have to do to get to it, or whether it would even be a good thing for 100% equality. And of course it's susceptible, like any political organization, to having the silent majority overshadowed in public perception by the vocal minority of radfems.
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On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist.
Actually feminism is just about setting the law so that women are giving the same amount of right(s) as men and promoting gender equality. Does giving women the choice of getting away with theft and murder feminism? Not traditionally.
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United States42884 Posts
On May 27 2014 02:20 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Actually feminism is just about setting the law so that women are giving the same amount of right(s) as men and promoting gender equality. Does giving women the choice of getting away with theft and murder feminism? Not traditionally.
Actually it's not. Feminism is about a lot more than simple legal equality.
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On May 27 2014 02:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:20 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Actually feminism is just about setting the law so that women are giving the same amount of right(s) as men and promoting gender equality. Does giving women the choice of getting away with theft and murder feminism? Not traditionally. Actually it's not. Feminism is about a lot more than simple legal equality.
You are confused b/w the traditional model of feminism and the modernized version of it.
On May 27 2014 02:18 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 01:56 SlixSC wrote:On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Of course it's possible that the popular tumblr-feminism has clouded my perception of actual feminism. But then the problem isn't so much my own perception but the fact that so many people self-identify as feminists and advance arguments and viewpoints in the name of feminism, that at least according to you have nothing to do with feminism. The problem is that feminism doesn't really have a set agenda anymore. There's a general consenus for gender equality but nobody can define what equality is or what we would have to do to get to it, or whether it would even be a good thing for 100% equality. And of course it's susceptible, like any political organization, to having the silent majority overshadowed in public perception by the vocal minority of radfems.
Women have been having the identical right as men for the last 20 years probably so #feminism shouldn't even be a "movement" anymore due to constant push by the government to improve the education and setting a workplace ratio of men and women.
As of now, feminism is about giving women more right to get away with unethical decisions and abuse the system as much as they can. But nature will always find a way to swing the pendulum into balance so I'm not exactly too worried about the repercussion of those abuses.
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United States42884 Posts
You have no clue what you're talking about.
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On May 27 2014 02:24 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:20 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Actually feminism is just about setting the law so that women are giving the same amount of right(s) as men and promoting gender equality. Does giving women the choice of getting away with theft and murder feminism? Not traditionally. Actually it's not. Feminism is about a lot more than simple legal equality.
Some feminists think that, some feminists don't. I've met and talked to people in both camps. Which begs the question, which of you is right and how are we outsiders supposed to know?
I mean the feminist tumblr-community is alot more radical in their views than I think you are, so are they wrong, are they not real feminists and more importantly who gets to decide what feminism is or even what it should be today?
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On May 27 2014 02:26 KwarK wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about.
Loving that projection.
And SlixSC, KwarK have a history of trolling people regarding the feminism movement. He doesn't actually believe the words he writes. It is just to get people riled up in his argument so don't get too emotionally to his points. Instead laugh at it.
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On May 27 2014 00:41 LilClinkin wrote:
His only mental disorder that I can gather from reading his manifesto is narcissistic personality disorder, which led to psychopathy in his later years. He was not psychotic or schizophrenic or anti-social or autistic. Please look up the definitions of these things before throwing them around. If you understood their definitions, you'd understand why psychiatrists (I'm not sure if he ever saw one, haven't read his entire manifesto) would not see him as an overly dangerous individual until it was too late.
That's not necessarily true. He was diagnosed as high functioning aspergers which is now under the autism spectrum according to the DSM-V. It's characterized by anti-social disorders, anxiety, depression, and other issues.
On May 27 2014 02:28 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:26 KwarK wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about. Loving that projection.
He's pretty spot on with his judgement of you. Equal for the past 20 years? What world have you been living in? Pushing for unethical rights? I guess it really is unethicial to have equal pay for equal work, a woman's choice to her body regarding abortions (see the attacks on it in Texas, Ohio, and other states), among numerous other issues.
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United States42884 Posts
On May 27 2014 02:27 SlixSC wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:24 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 02:20 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Actually feminism is just about setting the law so that women are giving the same amount of right(s) as men and promoting gender equality. Does giving women the choice of getting away with theft and murder feminism? Not traditionally. Actually it's not. Feminism is about a lot more than simple legal equality. Some feminists think that, some feminists don't. I've met and talked to people in both camps. Which begs the question, which of you is right and how are we outsiders supposed to know? I mean the feminist tumblr-community is alot more radical in their views than I think you are, so are they wrong, are they not real feminists and more importantly who gets to decide what feminism is or even what it should be today?
Nobody does, it's a broad umbrella, not a single unified group. It can be split into waves regarding what the objectives are but there is an awful lot of internal debate over what feminism means and that's healthy.
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United States42884 Posts
On May 27 2014 02:28 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:26 KwarK wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about. Loving that projection.
I'm a feminist, if I was actively trying to make it so women would game the system to break the law I think I'd know about it.
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On May 27 2014 02:30 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:27 SlixSC wrote:On May 27 2014 02:24 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 02:20 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 01:20 KwarK wrote:On May 27 2014 01:05 SlixSC wrote:On May 26 2014 23:14 Goldfish wrote:
@SlixSC - About your story (on page 12) - I understand but that's only one case.
Now I definitely understand some of your previous comments but again, with your family, that was only one case which shouldn't be used as the norm.
Just going to point out that I didn't imply it was the norm or say anything like that. My intention was to point out how feminist rhetoric can sometimes put ideas into women's heads that don't change their lives for the better but the worse. This idea that is often propagated in feminism that being a housewive isn't good enough for a woman, that they have to be independent (at all costs it sometimes seems), just for the sake of not being dependant on a man can lead to good outcomes but it can also lead to equally bad outcomes. What I'm crticising is that feminism (just like any other ideology) pretty much always tells a one-sided story, they'll tell you about stories of succesful women who left their husbands and are now living more happy lives, but I have never seen a feminist website report on women which left their husbands for the sake of being independent and destroyed perfectly happy families in the process. You never really hear about these stories from feminists and why? Because they don't fit with the feminist narrative that all women need to be independent, etc.. Feminism often times just presents us with very simplistic and narrow-minded views. I'm all for giving women the tools to be independent if they really want to be, but things are more complicated than that, we shouldn't be advocating for independence just for the sake of political correctness. For some people independence is good, for others it isn't and to ignore the different circumstances (because let's not forget, not all women/people are the same, I would go as far as to say that some people even need a strong partner in their lives in order to be happy) into consideration is simply narrow-minded and only serves one purpose... to advance the feminist agenda within our society even if some perfectly happy families are destroyed in the process. Collateral damage I guess. Feminism is not about telling women how to live their lives, it's about giving them choice. You just don't have a working concept of what feminism. Anyone who tells a woman that her choice to do X is wrong is a shitty feminist. Actually feminism is just about setting the law so that women are giving the same amount of right(s) as men and promoting gender equality. Does giving women the choice of getting away with theft and murder feminism? Not traditionally. Actually it's not. Feminism is about a lot more than simple legal equality. Some feminists think that, some feminists don't. I've met and talked to people in both camps. Which begs the question, which of you is right and how are we outsiders supposed to know? I mean the feminist tumblr-community is alot more radical in their views than I think you are, so are they wrong, are they not real feminists and more importantly who gets to decide what feminism is or even what it should be today? Nobody does, it's a broad umbrella, not a single unified group. It can be split into waves regarding what the objectives are but there is an awful lot of internal debate over what feminism means and that's healthy.
Maybe, but then you can't really blame people (not that you have) for not subscribing to the idea of feminism when even feminists themselves are unsure what it is.
Some feminist ideas I find good, but there are alot of feminist ideas I find absolutely silly and in some cases even bizarre. So I cannot possibly subscribe to that ideology, it wouldn't make sense. But that doesn't make me an anti-feminist or mysoginistic by any means it just means that feminism as an ideology is not consistent enough for me to possibly subscribe to it.
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On May 27 2014 02:29 Dknight wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 00:41 LilClinkin wrote:
His only mental disorder that I can gather from reading his manifesto is narcissistic personality disorder, which led to psychopathy in his later years. He was not psychotic or schizophrenic or anti-social or autistic. Please look up the definitions of these things before throwing them around. If you understood their definitions, you'd understand why psychiatrists (I'm not sure if he ever saw one, haven't read his entire manifesto) would not see him as an overly dangerous individual until it was too late. That's not necessarily true. He was diagnosed as high functioning aspergers which is now under the autism spectrum according to the DSM-V. It's characterized by anti-social disorders, anxiety, depression, and other issues. Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:28 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 02:26 KwarK wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about. Loving that projection. He's pretty spot on with his judgement of you. Equal for the past 20 years? What world have you been living in? Pushing for unethical rights? I guess it really is unethicial to have equal pay for equal work, a woman's choice to her body regarding abortions (see the attacks on it in Texas, Ohio, and other states), among numerous other issues.
Yeah those are not the points I was arguing if you read it correctly.
There are some rights that are still discussed under religious pretenses in religion but if you want to abort your baby, you can totally do it in a more progressive state so you still have the rights in NA.
But in terms of having the basic right as men, women's place in the society have been pretty much equalized in the past decades.
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United States42884 Posts
On May 27 2014 02:38 Xiphos wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:29 Dknight wrote:On May 27 2014 00:41 LilClinkin wrote:
His only mental disorder that I can gather from reading his manifesto is narcissistic personality disorder, which led to psychopathy in his later years. He was not psychotic or schizophrenic or anti-social or autistic. Please look up the definitions of these things before throwing them around. If you understood their definitions, you'd understand why psychiatrists (I'm not sure if he ever saw one, haven't read his entire manifesto) would not see him as an overly dangerous individual until it was too late. That's not necessarily true. He was diagnosed as high functioning aspergers which is now under the autism spectrum according to the DSM-V. It's characterized by anti-social disorders, anxiety, depression, and other issues. On May 27 2014 02:28 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 02:26 KwarK wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about. Loving that projection. He's pretty spot on with his judgement of you. Equal for the past 20 years? What world have you been living in? Pushing for unethical rights? I guess it really is unethicial to have equal pay for equal work, a woman's choice to her body regarding abortions (see the attacks on it in Texas, Ohio, and other states), among numerous other issues. Yeah those are not the points I was arguing if you read it correctly. There are some rights that are still discussed under religious pretenses in religion but if you want to abort your baby, you can totally do it in a more progressive state so you still have the rights in NA. But in terms of having the basic right as men, women's place in the society have been pretty much equalized in the past decades.
Which is one of the reasons modern feminism is tackling problems of gender roles and identity within society, although work is still needed on the legal front too. Things are not all fine just because a law is passed, the way people view women, and men, in society needs work.
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On May 27 2014 02:45 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On May 27 2014 02:38 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 02:29 Dknight wrote:On May 27 2014 00:41 LilClinkin wrote:
His only mental disorder that I can gather from reading his manifesto is narcissistic personality disorder, which led to psychopathy in his later years. He was not psychotic or schizophrenic or anti-social or autistic. Please look up the definitions of these things before throwing them around. If you understood their definitions, you'd understand why psychiatrists (I'm not sure if he ever saw one, haven't read his entire manifesto) would not see him as an overly dangerous individual until it was too late. That's not necessarily true. He was diagnosed as high functioning aspergers which is now under the autism spectrum according to the DSM-V. It's characterized by anti-social disorders, anxiety, depression, and other issues. On May 27 2014 02:28 Xiphos wrote:On May 27 2014 02:26 KwarK wrote:
You have no clue what you're talking about. Loving that projection. He's pretty spot on with his judgement of you. Equal for the past 20 years? What world have you been living in? Pushing for unethical rights? I guess it really is unethicial to have equal pay for equal work, a woman's choice to her body regarding abortions (see the attacks on it in Texas, Ohio, and other states), among numerous other issues. Yeah those are not the points I was arguing if you read it correctly. There are some rights that are still discussed under religious pretenses in religion but if you want to abort your baby, you can totally do it in a more progressive state so you still have the rights in NA. But in terms of having the basic right as men, women's place in the society have been pretty much equalized in the past decades. Which is one of the reasons modern feminism is tackling problems of gender roles and identity within society, although work is still needed on the legal front too. Things are not all fine just because a law is passed, the way people view women, and men, in society needs work.
The problem comes when they're legally equal but societally unequal. The example that comes to mind is the Violence Against Women Act, which attempts to deal with the societal problem of domestic abuse, but in practice ignores male victims, creating legal inequality.
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This notion that social movements can be criticized as though they all report to a central office seems like something out of a middle school social studies classroom discussion.
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EPT
