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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident  Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler +
You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d
The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3#
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On April 16 2014 19:51 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler + You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3#
Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I actually had no idea what a stalemate was, and looked it up after the game, and realized my mistake. Whoops. Oh well, it was a really fun game over all.
Edit: Though it did get kinda lame after I blundered my rook against a king and two pawns somehow, then spent like 60 moves trying to get a checkmate just to end in a stalemate after all that work!
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 16 2014 19:55 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 19:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler + You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3# Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I actually had no idea what a stalemate was, and looked it up after the game, and realized my mistake. Whoops. Oh well, it was a really fun game over all.
Mating with a rook and king is quite an important skill for a new player to learn, because it usually involves the use of zugzwang (heard of this?)
For example if the king was already on h2 in the position you gave then the game could go 1...Kf3 2.Kh1 Kf2 3.Kh2 and now 3...Rh3# is not possible because the king takes the rook. So the rook has to waste a move by moving somewhere along the 3rd rank (say 3...Ra3) and White is in zugzwang because he must move his king to h1 and be mated, so 3...Ra3 4.Kh1 and now we can play 4...Rh3#
edit: the zugzwang part is that white would prefer not to have to move 4.Kh1 and be mated, but because he is compelled to move, he will be checkmated.
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no way, zugzwang is a real english word`? that is awesome
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On April 16 2014 20:00 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 19:55 RagequitBM wrote:On April 16 2014 19:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler + You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3# Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I actually had no idea what a stalemate was, and looked it up after the game, and realized my mistake. Whoops. Oh well, it was a really fun game over all. Mating with a rook and king is quite an important skill for a new player to learn, because it usually involves the use of zugzwang (heard of this?) For example if the king was already on h2 in the position you gave then the game could go 1...Kf3 2.Kh1 Kf2 3.Kh2 and now 3...Rh3# is not possible because the king takes the rook. So the rook has to waste a move by moving somewhere along the 3rd rank (say 3...Ra3) and White is in zugzwang because he must move his king to h1 and be mated, so 3...Ra3 4.Kh1 and now we can play 4...Rh3# edit: the zugzwang part is that white would prefer not to have to move 4.Kh1 and be mated, but because he is compelled to move, he will be checkmated.
Oh wow. This is really helpful. I need to look into that concept more. Pretty cool to think about.
also @above, I think it's a german word
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On April 16 2014 21:06 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 20:00 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:55 RagequitBM wrote:On April 16 2014 19:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler + You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3# Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I actually had no idea what a stalemate was, and looked it up after the game, and realized my mistake. Whoops. Oh well, it was a really fun game over all. Mating with a rook and king is quite an important skill for a new player to learn, because it usually involves the use of zugzwang (heard of this?) For example if the king was already on h2 in the position you gave then the game could go 1...Kf3 2.Kh1 Kf2 3.Kh2 and now 3...Rh3# is not possible because the king takes the rook. So the rook has to waste a move by moving somewhere along the 3rd rank (say 3...Ra3) and White is in zugzwang because he must move his king to h1 and be mated, so 3...Ra3 4.Kh1 and now we can play 4...Rh3# edit: the zugzwang part is that white would prefer not to have to move 4.Kh1 and be mated, but because he is compelled to move, he will be checkmated. Oh wow. This is really helpful. I need to look into that concept more. Pretty cool to think about. also @above, I think it's a german word
Honestly zugzwang doesn't come up very much except in certain endgame scenarios. You don't even really have to know it's zugzwang to understand the concept that in Rook+king checkmates, sometimes you need to "waste" a move.
![[image loading]](http://www.chessvideos.tv/bimg/q4m3f4uifali.png)
This is one of the most famous cases of mutual zugzwang - whoever's move it is will lose, because their king must move away from their pawn and allow it to be captured.
edit: Hi Ragequit, have a look at this position:
![[image loading]](http://www.chessvideos.tv/bimg/cwqjlewyf4ao.png)
What is white's best move? Do you know why at all?
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On April 16 2014 21:06 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 20:00 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:55 RagequitBM wrote:On April 16 2014 19:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler + You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3# Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I actually had no idea what a stalemate was, and looked it up after the game, and realized my mistake. Whoops. Oh well, it was a really fun game over all. Mating with a rook and king is quite an important skill for a new player to learn, because it usually involves the use of zugzwang (heard of this?) For example if the king was already on h2 in the position you gave then the game could go 1...Kf3 2.Kh1 Kf2 3.Kh2 and now 3...Rh3# is not possible because the king takes the rook. So the rook has to waste a move by moving somewhere along the 3rd rank (say 3...Ra3) and White is in zugzwang because he must move his king to h1 and be mated, so 3...Ra3 4.Kh1 and now we can play 4...Rh3# edit: the zugzwang part is that white would prefer not to have to move 4.Kh1 and be mated, but because he is compelled to move, he will be checkmated. Oh wow. This is really helpful. I need to look into that concept more. Pretty cool to think about. also @above, I think it's a german word
yes it is , thats why its awesome
On April 16 2014 21:49 hypercube wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 21:00 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
no way, zugzwang is a real english word`? that is awesome It is. However it's only my second favourite to zwischenzug. That is an in between move. E.g inserting a check or a stronger threat before recapturing or moving an attacked piece.
love it!
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On April 16 2014 21:00 Kleinmuuhg wrote:
no way, zugzwang is a real english word`? that is awesome
It is. However it's only my second favourite to zwischenzug. That is an in between move. E.g inserting a check or a stronger threat before recapturing or moving an attacked piece.
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On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler +
K should be at f2
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On April 16 2014 21:15 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On April 16 2014 21:06 RagequitBM wrote:On April 16 2014 20:00 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:55 RagequitBM wrote:On April 16 2014 19:51 marvellosity wrote:On April 16 2014 19:44 RagequitBM wrote:So I was playing a game, where would my king have to be to get a mate here? I ended up getting a stalemate by accident Didn't even know stalemate was a thing to be honest. I thought I won until I saw that it said draw haha + Show Spoiler + You just played 1...Kg4-h3 which is stalemate because the white king has no moves and it is not check. It needs to be check to be checkmate :d The correct way would have been something like 1...Kf3 2.Kh2 Kf2 3.Kh1 Rh3# Oh, I see it now. Thanks! I actually had no idea what a stalemate was, and looked it up after the game, and realized my mistake. Whoops. Oh well, it was a really fun game over all. Mating with a rook and king is quite an important skill for a new player to learn, because it usually involves the use of zugzwang (heard of this?) For example if the king was already on h2 in the position you gave then the game could go 1...Kf3 2.Kh1 Kf2 3.Kh2 and now 3...Rh3# is not possible because the king takes the rook. So the rook has to waste a move by moving somewhere along the 3rd rank (say 3...Ra3) and White is in zugzwang because he must move his king to h1 and be mated, so 3...Ra3 4.Kh1 and now we can play 4...Rh3# edit: the zugzwang part is that white would prefer not to have to move 4.Kh1 and be mated, but because he is compelled to move, he will be checkmated. Oh wow. This is really helpful. I need to look into that concept more. Pretty cool to think about. also @above, I think it's a german word Honestly zugzwang doesn't come up very much except in certain endgame scenarios. You don't even really have to know it's zugzwang to understand the concept that in Rook+king checkmates, sometimes you need to "waste" a move. This is one of the most famous cases of mutual zugzwang - whoever's move it is will lose, because their king must move away from their pawn and allow it to be captured. edit: Hi Ragequit, have a look at this position: What is white's best move? Do you know why at all?
I thought it might be pe2 because it covers the most squares without having your king block your pawns movement?
Actually, after thinking a little more that's incorrect. If you move your pawn up it lets him stall I think. You would have to move your own king to herd them into the corner I think? Or at least allow yourself to push your pawn up the turn after
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United Kingdom36161 Posts
pe2 isn't even a possible move, we are going up the board :p
Basically there's 3 reasonable possible moves, and there's a correct answer
a)Kf4
b)Ke4
c)e4
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There's a version of the solution at 1:10 on the Carlsen video urboss posted on page 24 ,-)
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On April 17 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:
pe2 isn't even a possible move, we are going up the board :p
Basically there's 3 reasonable possible moves, and there's a correct answer
a)Kf4
b)Ke4
c)e4
I mean pe4! Mistyped haha.
And would Kf4 be the best here? Ke4 blocks your own pawns movement.
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On April 17 2014 09:04 RagequitBM wrote:Show nested quote +On April 17 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:
pe2 isn't even a possible move, we are going up the board :p
Basically there's 3 reasonable possible moves, and there's a correct answer
a)Kf4
b)Ke4
c)e4 I mean pe4! Mistyped haha. And would Kf4 be the best here? Ke4 blocks your own pawns movement.
Ke4 or Kf4 works i think. After that, then the black king either has to move to the side or back. Then you move your king to the opposite side (or forward if he decides to move back, which is stupid). Eventually you'll have a situation where the black king has to move back in order to stay in front of the pawn. The idea is to keep the king in front of your pawn (never behind the pawn) or else he can stalemate. with his king in front of your pawn and your king directly behind the pawn.
edit: i think ke4 is the only one that works cause kf4 allows him to force your king behind the pawn.
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Ke4 is the best move because it gives you the opposition. The opposition is an extremely important concept to understand for endgames, and will make calculating a lot easier.
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When you're trying to find the solution of a problem like this, always think about what the other side is going to do in reaction to your moves. If you play Kf4, what is the black king going to do? His objective is to prevent you from queening your pawn, so he's going to try to block you. Your Kf4 allows him to go to ...Kf6 and block your king (you can't move it to e5, f5 or g5). If you then move your pawn to e4, his king is going back to e5 and your white king is stuck - you'll never again be able to get your king ahead of your pawn in order to banish away the black king. Try the different moves in your mind or in a chess program if you want to verify this.
If you go Ke4, on the other hand, what can the black king "only" do? How do you play next?
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On April 17 2014 07:36 marvellosity wrote:
pe2 isn't even a possible move, we are going up the board :p
Basically there's 3 reasonable possible moves, and there's a correct answer
a)Kf4
b)Ke4
c)e4
I would go ke4 , seems like a solid choice in my eyes
edit for fatal misspelling
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Ke4 only move that wins, all other moves draw. White has to get to a winning square which is either, d5,e5 or f5 with the king. Its amazing how such a simple looking possition (its really simple too actually) has so many players failing it. As long as you understand key squares are 2 rows infront of the pawn, you just have to keep making sure you control the key squares until your pawn is a queen. That covers basicly all pawn king vs king endgames.
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Very happy with my play during this game. I'm still a complete beginner as I've never played Chess prior to these Chess.com shenanigans, but I feel like I'm starting to slowly understand a little bit more.
http://www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=781861794
Also, where do most people watch the major chess matches? Main stream/entertaining restream?
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EPT![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/ts3NddX.png)
