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Is the mind all chemical and electricity? - Page 2

Forum Index > General Forum
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sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 01 2013 01:26 GMT
#21
On July 01 2013 10:15 travis wrote:
I don't understand what any of you are saying. Obviously your experiences aren't physical. We can't measure experiences, we can only measure their correlates.


Well if the current models of the brain are correct then you should be able to quantify and measure experiences as different patterns and levels of chemical and electrical activity, we just aren't near the level of sophistication to do that.

If you are saying that those activities only create "experiences" , then I think thats a bit nonsensical....like saying you cant measure table because even though its made out of a wood surface and four legs, those components are only the source of its mystical tableness. For all practical purposes the distinction is meaningless.
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
casuistry
Profile Blog Joined July 2013
56 Posts
July 01 2013 01:26 GMT
#22
Yes, it's all electrical and chemical events. Accept it.

What's really funny is that half of the people saying yes in this thread still believe in free will. We can "control" the laws of physics! With our brain made of elements ruled by physics! What a miracle!
clever but unsound reasoning, inconsistent—or outright specious—misapplication of rule to instance
teddyoojo
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
Germany22369 Posts
July 01 2013 01:28 GMT
#23
On July 01 2013 10:24 TheBigO wrote:
I feel like this question is impossible to answer. It all comes down to your own beliefs on how you perceive a mind (including your own mind). Personally, this question is a bit too provocative and in depth for me to even consider.

It is these types of questions that we leave to philosophers .

lol
Esports historian since 2000. Creator of 'The Universe' and 'The best scrambled Eggs 2013'. Host of 'Star Wars Marathon 2015'. Thinker of 'teddyoojo's Thoughts'. Earths and Moons leading CS:GO expert. Lord of the Rings.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
July 01 2013 01:29 GMT
#24
Arguing about free will is another flaw in the way people view the world I think. Free will cannot possibly mean more than experiencing free will.
electronic voyeur
Profile Joined October 2012
United States133 Posts
July 01 2013 01:29 GMT
#25
Can we then capture this process, and say transfer it to another host? Or even run it in a "cloud-like" environment where there is no physical component except for the brain or whatever organ we will upgrade it into, and run everything from there?
sob3k
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States7572 Posts
July 01 2013 01:31 GMT
#26
arguing about free will is the biggest waste of time ever though
In Hungry Hungry Hippos there are no such constraints—one can constantly attempt to collect marbles with one’s hippo, limited only by one’s hippo-levering capabilities.
SergioCQH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States143 Posts
July 01 2013 01:31 GMT
#27
On July 01 2013 10:15 travis wrote:
I don't understand what any of you are saying. Obviously your experiences aren't physical. We can't measure experiences, we can only measure their correlates.


We can't yet. There's no theoretical limit that prevents us from being able to in the future.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-01 01:31:47
July 01 2013 01:31 GMT
#28
So far I'm with Travis on this one. Physicalism has a number of holes, and they tend to gravitate towards use of the word "emergent"
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
sc2superfan101
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
3583 Posts
July 01 2013 01:32 GMT
#29
On July 01 2013 10:31 sob3k wrote:
arguing about free will is the biggest waste of time ever though

So true... but if we have no free-will, then we can't choose whether we argue about it or not! 0.o

Oh my God, I just broke the internet!
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
July 01 2013 01:32 GMT
#30
I don't think so. There are many observations about the way the mind works that are not consistent with a completely finite, material mind.

Of interest:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83870017/The-Present-Status-of-the-Innateness-Controversy
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195332834.003.0012
Mothra
Profile Blog Joined November 2009
United States1448 Posts
July 01 2013 01:32 GMT
#31
People study this stuff. It might be more useful for discussion to seek out what they say, then present your take. Here is some relevant reading.

http://www.nature.com/news/2011/110831/full/477023a.html
SergioCQH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States143 Posts
July 01 2013 01:33 GMT
#32
On July 01 2013 10:32 nbaker wrote:
I don't think so. There are many observations about the way the mind works that are not consistent with a completely finite, material mind.

Of interest:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83870017/The-Present-Status-of-the-Innateness-Controversy
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195332834.003.0012


Yeah, let's not get philosophers involved in this. Philosophers are not scientists.
coverpunch
Profile Joined December 2011
United States2093 Posts
Last Edited: 2013-07-01 01:34:25
July 01 2013 01:33 GMT
#33
On July 01 2013 10:26 casuistry wrote:
Yes, it's all electrical and chemical events. Accept it.

What's really funny is that half of the people saying yes in this thread still believe in free will. We can "control" the laws of physics! With our brain made of elements ruled by physics! What a miracle!

Mmm, free will is a separate issue from whether brain activity is solely produced by chemical and electrical activity.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18832 Posts
July 01 2013 01:34 GMT
#34
On July 01 2013 10:33 SergioCQH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 10:32 nbaker wrote:
I don't think so. There are many observations about the way the mind works that are not consistent with a completely finite, material mind.

Of interest:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83870017/The-Present-Status-of-the-Innateness-Controversy
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195332834.003.0012

Philosophers are not scientists.

And this is precisely why they ought to be involved in discussing the "essence" of consciousness.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
sc2superfan101
Profile Blog Joined February 2012
3583 Posts
July 01 2013 01:34 GMT
#35
On July 01 2013 10:33 SergioCQH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 10:32 nbaker wrote:
I don't think so. There are many observations about the way the mind works that are not consistent with a completely finite, material mind.

Of interest:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83870017/The-Present-Status-of-the-Innateness-Controversy
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195332834.003.0012


Yeah, let's not get philosophers involved in this. Philosophers are not scientists.

And scientists are not philosophers. Yet we see scientists engaging in philosophy pretty consistently.

(Hint: this argument is itself a great example of science engaging in philosophy)
My fake plants died because I did not pretend to water them.
Abominous
Profile Joined March 2013
Croatia1625 Posts
July 01 2013 01:35 GMT
#36
On July 01 2013 10:17 teddyoojo wrote:
everything is physics (and physics is math)

Physics is not math. Math is a tool used to describe physics.
kwizach
Profile Joined June 2011
3658 Posts
July 01 2013 01:35 GMT
#37
Is it all physical? Answer: like the rest of what surrounds us, yes.
"Oedipus ruined a great sex life by asking too many questions." -- Stephen Colbert
Mortal
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
2943 Posts
July 01 2013 01:35 GMT
#38
yep. and chocolate.
The universe created an audience for itself.
nbaker
Profile Joined July 2009
United States1341 Posts
July 01 2013 01:35 GMT
#39
On July 01 2013 10:33 SergioCQH wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 10:32 nbaker wrote:
I don't think so. There are many observations about the way the mind works that are not consistent with a completely finite, material mind.

Of interest:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/83870017/The-Present-Status-of-the-Innateness-Controversy
http://oxfordindex.oup.com/view/10.1093/acprof:oso/9780195332834.003.0012


Yeah, let's not get philosophers involved in this. Philosophers are not scientists.

That's completely ridiculous. This is a philosophical issue.
SergioCQH
Profile Joined October 2010
United States143 Posts
July 01 2013 01:36 GMT
#40
On July 01 2013 10:33 coverpunch wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 01 2013 10:26 casuistry wrote:
Yes, it's all electrical and chemical events. Accept it.

What's really funny is that half of the people saying yes in this thread still believe in free will. We can "control" the laws of physics! With our brain made of elements ruled by physics! What a miracle!

Mmm, free will is a separate issue from whether brain activity is solely produced by chemical and electrical activity.


It's not a separate issue. If brain activity is deterministic, then free will doesn't exist. But brain activity is not absolutely deterministic. It's stochastic.
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