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On July 01 2013 10:15 travis wrote:
I don't understand what any of you are saying. Obviously your experiences aren't physical. We can't measure experiences, we can only measure their correlates.
Well if the current models of the brain are correct then you should be able to quantify and measure experiences as different patterns and levels of chemical and electrical activity, we just aren't near the level of sophistication to do that.
If you are saying that those activities only create "experiences" , then I think thats a bit nonsensical....like saying you cant measure table because even though its made out of a wood surface and four legs, those components are only the source of its mystical tableness. For all practical purposes the distinction is meaningless.
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Yes, it's all electrical and chemical events. Accept it.
What's really funny is that half of the people saying yes in this thread still believe in free will. We can "control" the laws of physics! With our brain made of elements ruled by physics! What a miracle!
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On July 01 2013 10:24 TheBigO wrote:I feel like this question is impossible to answer. It all comes down to your own beliefs on how you perceive a mind (including your own mind). Personally, this question is a bit too provocative and in depth for me to even consider. It is these types of questions that we leave to philosophers  .
lol
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Arguing about free will is another flaw in the way people view the world I think. Free will cannot possibly mean more than experiencing free will.
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Can we then capture this process, and say transfer it to another host? Or even run it in a "cloud-like" environment where there is no physical component except for the brain or whatever organ we will upgrade it into, and run everything from there?
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arguing about free will is the biggest waste of time ever though
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On July 01 2013 10:15 travis wrote:
I don't understand what any of you are saying. Obviously your experiences aren't physical. We can't measure experiences, we can only measure their correlates.
We can't yet. There's no theoretical limit that prevents us from being able to in the future.
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So far I'm with Travis on this one. Physicalism has a number of holes, and they tend to gravitate towards use of the word "emergent" 
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On July 01 2013 10:31 sob3k wrote:
arguing about free will is the biggest waste of time ever though
So true... but if we have no free-will, then we can't choose whether we argue about it or not! 0.o
Oh my God, I just broke the internet!
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Yeah, let's not get philosophers involved in this. Philosophers are not scientists.
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On July 01 2013 10:26 casuistry wrote:
Yes, it's all electrical and chemical events. Accept it.
What's really funny is that half of the people saying yes in this thread still believe in free will. We can "control" the laws of physics! With our brain made of elements ruled by physics! What a miracle!
Mmm, free will is a separate issue from whether brain activity is solely produced by chemical and electrical activity.
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On July 01 2013 10:33 SergioCQH wrote:Philosophers are not scientists.
And this is precisely why they ought to be involved in discussing the "essence" of consciousness.
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On July 01 2013 10:33 SergioCQH wrote:Yeah, let's not get philosophers involved in this. Philosophers are not scientists.
And scientists are not philosophers. Yet we see scientists engaging in philosophy pretty consistently.
(Hint: this argument is itself a great example of science engaging in philosophy)
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On July 01 2013 10:17 teddyoojo wrote:
everything is physics (and physics is math)
Physics is not math. Math is a tool used to describe physics.
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Is it all physical? Answer: like the rest of what surrounds us, yes.
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On July 01 2013 10:33 SergioCQH wrote:Yeah, let's not get philosophers involved in this. Philosophers are not scientists.
That's completely ridiculous. This is a philosophical issue.
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On July 01 2013 10:33 coverpunch wrote:Show nested quote +On July 01 2013 10:26 casuistry wrote:
Yes, it's all electrical and chemical events. Accept it.
What's really funny is that half of the people saying yes in this thread still believe in free will. We can "control" the laws of physics! With our brain made of elements ruled by physics! What a miracle! Mmm, free will is a separate issue from whether brain activity is solely produced by chemical and electrical activity.
It's not a separate issue. If brain activity is deterministic, then free will doesn't exist. But brain activity is not absolutely deterministic. It's stochastic.
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EPT
