EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 73
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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KwarK
United States44354 Posts
The Blair years were good in spite of Blair. Borrowing and good economic conditions would have made any government seem good but we're talking about a leader who genuinely believed he had a personal conservation with God which told him to invade the Middle East and then fucking did it. That's crusader level bullshit. I would be surprised if Corbyn fights the next election. I think in 3 years Labour will have an internal coup, leaving a year for the new leader to get his face out in public and then a year to prepare for the fight. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
Now we are breaking our backs trying to get back to a healthy state but its hard due to the many many factors but we seem to be doing better minus the last figures which shows unemployment growth and spending down. | ||
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KwarK
United States44354 Posts
On September 15 2015 23:44 marvellosity wrote: Speaking as a gay man, I don't really think it's fair to say Blair's government was a failure on LGBT rights. The repeal of section 28, equalisation of age of consent, civil partnerships. Pretty decent effort, if not perfect. He had a supermajority. He could pass any law, no matter how controversial. He could privatize parts of the NHS and education, he could start charging for tertiary education and he could invade the Holy Land. The reason gay marriage didn't happen is because Blair, personally, was opposed to it on religious grounds. Alistair Cambell's greatest success was to conceal the fact that Blair was a religious zealot from the British people. Labour wasn't as homophobic as the Tories, I'll give you that, but they still failed the British people. | ||
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marvellosity
United Kingdom36161 Posts
On September 15 2015 23:48 KwarK wrote: He had a supermajority. He could pass any law, no matter how controversial. He could privatize parts of the NHS and education, he could start charging for tertiary education and he could invade the Holy Land. The reason gay marriage didn't happen is because Blair, personally, was opposed to it on religious grounds. Alistair Cambell's greatest success was to conceal the fact that Blair was a religious zealot from the British people. Labour wasn't as homophobic as the Tories, I'll give you that, but they still failed the British people. Don't get me wrong, the whole administration was terrible in many ways, and there's about a 99.9% chance I will never vote Labour in all my days. You'd be hardpressed to find much support in the gay community for the viewpoint that their government "failed" us on LGBT rights, though. | ||
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KwarK
United States44354 Posts
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Pandemona
Charlie Sheens House51493 Posts
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KwarK
United States44354 Posts
House of Lords reform and the West Lothian problem were two more failures of the Blair government I'd forgotten about. They initiated this insane situation now where Westminster can't legislate in Scotland but Scotland can legislate in Westminster. How did city academies work out btw? I remember them but I was too preppy to ever see one. And foundation hospitals? | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On September 15 2015 23:48 KwarK wrote: He had a supermajority. He could pass any law, no matter how controversial. He could privatize parts of the NHS and education, he could start charging for tertiary education and he could invade the Holy Land. The reason gay marriage didn't happen is because Blair, personally, was opposed to it on religious grounds. Alistair Cambell's greatest success was to conceal the fact that Blair was a religious zealot from the British people. Labour wasn't as homophobic as the Tories, I'll give you that, but they still failed the British people. I think you overestimate Tony Blair's political capital, he was toppled by Tom Watson and Gordon Brown of all people if he couldn't resist a coup from them he was hardly in position to do as you say. | ||
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KwarK
United States44354 Posts
On September 16 2015 00:23 Zaros wrote: I think you overestimate Tony Blair's political capital, he was toppled by Tom Watson and Gordon Brown of all people if he couldn't resist a coup from them he was hardly in position to do as you say. After how many years? Blair made a pact with Brown to share power, two Blair terms (up to 2005) with Brown as Chancellor and then Brown was to take over. This was well known within the party and outside, it was the Granita agreement. Blair openly broke his promise to Brown and stayed on against the will of the Brownites and the wider party until his own growing unpopularity eventually forced him out. The argument that Blair was weak because he was toppled by Brown is nonsensical because it ignores both the fact that Brown was a towering figure in the Labour party, despite his subsequent fall from grace, and the fact that Blair was not toppled by Brown. Blair's strength was such that he was able to openly break his promise to Brown, stay on with the support of half the Labour party, win an election and stay on for a few more years. The fact that Blair wasn't able to have himself declared dictator for life and that eventually his party got sick of him is not a sign of weakness, rather, the fact he was able to linger on for years after his agreement is a sign of his huge strength. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
Interesting gossip there, PMQs will be interesting today. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
Tony Blair himself avows support for gay marriage. He's said, about his failure to push gay marriage legislation: "I don't know looking back whether it might have been possible to have gone that way right at the beginning, but at the time it seemed like a very big step - and indeed was" http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2014/03/19/tony-blair-hindsight-maybe-gone-equal-marriage-just-civil-partnerships/ He also said, that he supported gay marriage in 2012 immediately after the pope had called on Catholics to block "powerful political and cultural currents seeking to alter the legal definition of marriage." http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/politics/blair-takes-on-the-pope-by-backing-gay-marriage-7555115.html However I honestly don't think that makes you wrong Kwark. I've been of the opinion for some time now that Blair has some mental health issues that render everything his says extremely suspect... It's a bold statement so I'll take a couple paragraphs to explain. We all have a sort of reality filter that lets us get through the day, this is stuff as mundane as filtering out our own eye movement from our perception, but it also explains the much more complex phenomena of self deception, things like partisanship. It's why take a sportspersons claim that a judgement call should go their way with a big pinch of salt. We aren't exactly calling them liars, we're just familiar with the idea that, to some degree, our perception is guided by our self interest and prejudices. To put it another way: Our preconscious self can save our conscious selves from moral difficulty by turning a lie into the truth. While we all have this capacity, some of us are more prone to it than others. I think Tony Blair is incredibly good at this kind of self deception. He is a "true believer" because he can stand up and say the most bald faced pieces lies, lies which just happen to serve his own agenda, with complete and unadulterated conviction. In short: Born into different circumstances Tony Blair would have been labelled a compulsive liar. Plus this came up on my facebook a little while ago. https://www.facebook.com/redlabourhq/photos/a.515289891883383.1073741825.127897577289285/929456727133362/?type=1&theater So compulsive liar cunt then. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On September 16 2015 18:47 Zaros wrote: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34267886 Interesting gossip there, PMQs will be interesting today. Yes, PMQs will be great T.V. - if I can I'll put up a stream to it here. We can only pray that the ultra Blairites do cross the floor. It's exactly the sort of thing that Corbyn needs - a handful of by-elections that will be winnable with him as leader and an opportunity to bring in new MPs. It's such a profoundly bold / dumb move that I'd bet heavily against it happening. But, given the echo chamber they live in, it's possible they misread the moment that badly and try it. I really really hope they do. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
40 minutes to go. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
https://twitter.com/hashtag/PMQs?src=tren&data_id=tweet:644065854754299904 | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
"PMQs was the most nerve-racking, discombobulating, nail-biting, bowel-moving, terror-inspiring, courage-draining experience in my prime ministerial life, without question. You know that scene in Marathon Man where the evil Nazi doctor played by Laurence Olivier drills through Dustin Hoffman's teeth? At around 11.45 on Wednesday mornings, I would have swapped 30 minutes of PMQs for 30 minutes of that." | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
Direct link to BBC stream http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-politics-34263142 Assume that won't work outside of the UK... | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
The "people's" crowd sourced questions from Corbyn blunted Cameron - he couldn't go after Corbyn too hard as he'd be attacking joe public. This gave Corbyn a way to take control of the conversation by changing it and looking like the grown up. However the format meant that Cameron could just revert back to sound bytes as there was never any follow up by Corbyn. PMQs will be an interesting thing to watch for the coming session because I think Corbyn will struggle to do the same trick week after week so things will definitely evolve. | ||
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