|
In order to ensure that this thread meets TL standards and follows the proper guidelines, we ask that everyone please adhere to this mod note. Posts containing only Tweets or articles adds nothing to the discussions. Therefore, when providing a source, explain why you feel it is relevant and what purpose it adds to the discussion. Also take note that unsubstantiated tweets/posts meant only to rekindle old arguments will be actioned upon. All in all, please continue to enjoy posting in TL General and partake in discussions as much as you want! But please be respectful when posting or replying to someone. There is a clear difference between constructive criticism/discussion and just plain being rude and insulting. https://www.registertovote.service.gov.uk |
On April 11 2019 18:01 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2019 17:52 Harris1st wrote:On April 11 2019 00:39 Harris1st wrote:Summit is about to begin  My guess is quite a long extension (like end of 2019) but with some rules to kick UK out as soon as they don't play ball EU-wise. Edit: I don't think May will resign either way. She is too proud for that Called it! Why is there no betting game? Dear UK people, is there a way for you to do early elections? Like completely replace every politician? Maybe that would work They 'just' had an election, next one is planned for 2022 and I don't see May holding early elections because it will just end in her resignation.
I know, that's why I wrote early elections. Like forced them. Push May out, if she wants or not. Get some new faces on (voted for).Working people preferably. Not these aristocratic, old farts who lost sight of reality. I have no idea how the UK system works, that's why I ask.
|
except that a second referendum has been consistently voted down with big numbers
|
On April 11 2019 11:07 m4ini wrote:
"People" don't get to vote on policy. They do that by voting the party that offers the manifesto they identify with.
In theory.It's just a shame that so many political parties fail to deliver on the promises they give when they are running for election.And by fail to deliver i mean in many cases completely abandon.
Or, here's a really fun one, the other way around: it doesn't matter what scotland votes (remember, those funny accent people, who overwhelmingly voted to stay in the EU?).
They voted to stay in the UK.When they have another referendum on UK membership in the future they have the choice to forge their own path with closer ties to the EU.Wales likewise could have that choice as well in the future, even though they voted to leave.
The "people" don't get to vote on policies. They do get to vote on political manifestos and elect representatives. They decided to not vote for the party that literally ran on rallying against Maastricht.
Remind me which party won the most UK seats in the 2014 EU Parliament election.
|
On April 11 2019 18:26 Gorsameth wrote:
except that a second referendum has been consistently voted down with big numbers
Assuming this was a reply to me...In contrast to what solution? MPs haven't been forced to vote in favour of any option in order to avoid no deal yet. They will need the EU to order them to do so.
|
On April 11 2019 19:11 Longshank wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2019 18:26 Gorsameth wrote:
except that a second referendum has been consistently voted down with big numbers Assuming this was a reply to me...In contrast to what solution? MPs haven't been forced to vote in favour of any option in order to avoid no deal yet. They will need the EU to order them to do so. You realise setting up a referendum takes time right?
By the time the EU puts them with their backs against the wall there is no time for a referendum.
There was no time if the EU said no the first extension, there was no time if the EU said no to this extension.
If the EU says no to the next extension there will be no time for a referendum.
The only point where Parliament can vote for a referendum and actually hold it is if they do so months in advance and this Parliament has shown that it cant do anything without a proverbial gun to their head.
|
On April 11 2019 19:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2019 19:11 Longshank wrote:On April 11 2019 18:26 Gorsameth wrote:
except that a second referendum has been consistently voted down with big numbers Assuming this was a reply to me...In contrast to what solution? MPs haven't been forced to vote in favour of any option in order to avoid no deal yet. They will need the EU to order them to do so. You realise setting up a referendum takes time right? By the time the EU puts them with their backs against the wall there is no time for a referendum. There was no time if the EU said no the first extension, there was no time if the EU said no to this extension. If the EU says no to the next extension there will be no time for a referendum. The only point where Parliament can vote for a referendum and actually hold it is if they do so months in advance and this Parliament has shown that it cant do anything without a proverbial gun to their head.
Why not hold a 2nd referendum on the day of EP elections? Much of the infrastructure needed for a referendum is exactly the same as for an EP/general elections.
So why not? cheaper, saves time
Not that i think a 2nd referendum is necessary or a good idea, but, you know, if you'd want one...
|
On April 11 2019 19:43 Geo.Rion wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2019 19:35 Gorsameth wrote:On April 11 2019 19:11 Longshank wrote:On April 11 2019 18:26 Gorsameth wrote:
except that a second referendum has been consistently voted down with big numbers Assuming this was a reply to me...In contrast to what solution? MPs haven't been forced to vote in favour of any option in order to avoid no deal yet. They will need the EU to order them to do so. You realise setting up a referendum takes time right? By the time the EU puts them with their backs against the wall there is no time for a referendum. There was no time if the EU said no the first extension, there was no time if the EU said no to this extension. If the EU says no to the next extension there will be no time for a referendum. The only point where Parliament can vote for a referendum and actually hold it is if they do so months in advance and this Parliament has shown that it cant do anything without a proverbial gun to their head. Why not hold a 2nd referendum on the day of EP elections? Much of the infrastructure needed for a referendum is exactly the same as for an EP/general elections. So why not? cheaper, saves time Not that i think a 2nd referendum is necessary or a good idea, but, you know, if you'd want one... Sure, but we come back to Parliament having to vote for it and it consistently gets defeated with big numbers.
|
On April 11 2019 19:35 Gorsameth wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2019 19:11 Longshank wrote:On April 11 2019 18:26 Gorsameth wrote:
except that a second referendum has been consistently voted down with big numbers Assuming this was a reply to me...In contrast to what solution? MPs haven't been forced to vote in favour of any option in order to avoid no deal yet. They will need the EU to order them to do so. You realise setting up a referendum takes time right? By the time the EU puts them with their backs against the wall there is no time for a referendum. There was no time if the EU said no the first extension, there was no time if the EU said no to this extension. If the EU says no to the next extension there will be no time for a referendum. The only point where Parliament can vote for a referendum and actually hold it is if they do so months in advance and this Parliament has shown that it cant do anything without a proverbial gun to their head.
Well you've been saying there's no time for anything for the last three months yet here we are. Your track record when it comes to brexit extensions isn't exactly impressive yet it doesn't have seem to dampen your conviction. I put my faith in the rationality of the EU and british MPs and will continue to do so until proven wrong.
|
Just vote pro-EU parties at the EP elections now. The MPs can then interpret that as The Will of the People™ and cancel article 50 and be done with it without losing their seats in a new election or needing a new referendum.
Or vote in a bunch of Rees-Mogg obstructionist trolls and the EU will kick you out 
|
Northern Ireland27206 Posts
I’m hugely biased of course, but just have a second referendum. If the population hasn’t shifted, well not much would change from the current fiasco, if they have shifted then you don’t have to bother negotiating a complicated exit.
As it stands we’re locked into a path on a snapshot of public will at one specific time, that may or may not reflect public sentiment at this particular time.
There are other factors of course, it really would poison discourse and disenfranchisement even further than it is now. But I think that’s going to be unavoidable anyway. Pro EU people are going to be pissed off regardless, and there may be more of them now. Tons of people are going to be pissed if economic impacts are bad and hit their lives, especially the relatively apolitical who don’t really care about such things, and tbh I feel are super neglected in these discussions.
Anti-EU sentiment has routinely been channelled into the elections of MEPs, I think it’s a good idea to galvanise a protest vote this time round in the opposite direction.
I think it would need coordinated and pushed first, people aren’t too enthused about those elections anyway, much less so if we’re electing and leaving so it would need some pushing to frame it that way first I think.
|
Northern Ireland27206 Posts
|
May today:
We’ve been very clear that we want to obtain the benefits of a customs union - no tariffs, no rules of origin checks and no quotas - while being able to operate our own independent trade policy.
How is that even...
On the other hand, why is May facing backslash from accepting long extension? Not really sure if I understand correctly, but didnt recent votes in HoC put her in situation where she had to say yes to even 100 years extension if EU told her: extension till 2120, or no deal?
On a side note, why do I have weird impression that at the time of leaving UK is going to have most pro EU MEPs ever  ?
|
May is facing backlash from accepting negotiating an extention? Not at all. She's just facing well deserved all-round criticism.
Nothing to do with the extention though. Except by no-deal brexiteers. Who don't care whether or not parliament has voted against no-deal or not. They will criticise anything that doesn't get them no-deal.
Also: "May today:
We’ve been very clear that we want to obtain the benefits of a customs union - no tariffs, no rules of origin checks and no quotas - while being able to operate our own independent trade policy." Wow, it's like we have gone back to 3 years ago to the referendum again. Is May going to declare another General Election lol.
|
"We've been very clear that we want to have our cake and eat it too. I don't foresee any problems with this line of reasoning". I can't fathom what is going through these people's heads. Certainly not electrons rubbing together to form coherent thoughts.
I'm equally surprised EU allowed an extension. I would like to understand the reasoning behind that decision
|
On April 12 2019 03:12 Excludos wrote:
"We've been very clear that we want to have our cake and eat it too. I don't foresee any problems with this line of reasoning". I can't fathom what is going through these people's heads. Certainly not electrons rubbing together to form coherent thoughts. They have 6 months to not worry about an actual solution so they can go back to saying whatever voters want to hear in preparation for EU elections.
Edit:They are just hoping that if they stretch it out long enough the UK will stop trying to leave.
They have repeatedly said that the UK has to come with solutions to get an extension, only to give an extension with no solutions coming out of the UK so... just wait for them to get tired of wanting to leave.
Remember they wanted to give an even longer extension (aka even longer without having to worry about it) but France wasn't having it.
Probably Macron trying to appeal to the protesters or voters in his country I imagine.
|
|
|
United States44190 Posts
On April 11 2019 17:52 Harris1st wrote:Show nested quote +On April 11 2019 00:39 Harris1st wrote:Summit is about to begin My guess is quite a long extension (like end of 2019) but with some rules to kick UK out as soon as they don't play ball EU-wise. Edit: I don't think May will resign either way. She is too proud for that Called it! Why is there no betting game? Dear UK people, is there a way for you to do early elections? Like completely replace every politician? Maybe that would work
Yes, May can call an election. She’s declining to do so.
|
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
Well she can call for an election, but 2/3rds of parliament have to vote in favour of it
|
Is that how it goes? I'll laugh if she calls for one, resigns, and then the vote denies the general election. Then the internal Conservative infighting over who gets to be PM can begin and UK can groan over the candidates.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
