EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 445
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Dangermousecatdog
United Kingdom7084 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On November 27 2018 05:54 Dangermousecatdog wrote: I don't know why you are posting trump, but I have to say that you are very optimistic Zaros. Because he is talking about Brexit? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
Today the man said he didn’t believe a scientific report from the Environmental Protection Agency, which he is in charge of running. Like W Bush, the man’s insights on your country are pretty worthless. | ||
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Excludos
Norway8232 Posts
His opinions are about as valuable as rotten tomatoes, both based on his lack of knowledge of literally any subject in the world as well as his inability to speak the truth. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On November 27 2018 06:41 Excludos wrote: His opinions are about as valuable as rotten tomatoes, both based on his lack of knowledge of literally any subject in the world as well as his inability to speak the truth. He is the president of the United States, him saying the UK won't be able to sign a trade deal with the US under this Brexit deal is significant even if you think he is an idiot. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 27 2018 06:44 Zaros wrote: He is the president of the United States, him saying the UK won't be able to sign a trade deal with the US under this Brexit deal is significant even if you think he is an idiot. Trump doesn’t understand how trade deals work. Or how trade works for that matter. Our President said nothing of substance on this subject and you should ignore it. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9277 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22093 Posts
On November 27 2018 04:24 Zaros wrote: How does giving away the UK's privileged position within the current EU structure in exchange for literally nothing not get you completely annihilated at the next election?Well any new way forward that isnt no deal requires government backing, so May would have to go. You then have say Gove elected as an emergency PM and puts an EFTA deal to parliament which would very likely pass. If May stays as PM or there is someone else with no Plan or winnable plan then they can ignore all other votes such as EFTA or a 2nd referendum as much as they like because the legislation has to be introduced via the government. We would then default to No Deal in March. Why on earth would you not crawl on your knees to Brussels and beg them to let you take back Brexit instead? | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 27 2018 07:25 Sent. wrote: Well, Trump did score some free points with the far right because, from their perspective, he made it look like the UK chose to agree to demands of the bad guys (the EU) without gaining much in return. On top of that he implied that the consequence of being weak like that is not getting to make great deals with America because tough America isn't going to follow the European rules. From an outsider’s perspective, Brexit just seems like the UK giving up a lot of things they took for granted and getting nothing in return. Its like backing out of a trade deal and then going right back to the table to demand a better trade deal than the one you just back out of. Only a group of true morons would let someone get away with that. As far as I know, the EU is not run by total morons. | ||
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On November 27 2018 07:48 Plansix wrote: From an outsider’s perspective, Brexit just seems like the UK giving up a lot of things they took for granted and getting nothing in return. Its like backing out of a trade deal and then going right back to the table to demand a better trade deal than the one you just back out of. Only a group of true morons would let someone get away with that. As far as I know, the EU is not run by total morons. The EU is not just about trade if it was Brexit would never have happened and its actually quite protectionist to the outside world. The issue is about sovereignty, controlling the border was a big issue but so was freedom to sign trade deals with other countries, making our own laws setting our own tax rates etc. The trouble is the whole negotiation has been run by Remainers as a damage limitation exercise and no preparation was made for No deal weakening our negotiating position further. Nobody wants Mays deal really because it is just giving up stuff for nothing. The people who advocating voting leave have to take some blame too, the two big Leave backers bickered amongst themselves and let May get elected. Douglas Carswell fled politics as did Gisela Stuart leaving morons like Andrea Leadsom and David Davis as the more influential Leavers. Dominic Cummings the chairman of the leave campaign only shows up every 6 months to write a 100,000 word blog about how shit everyone is. Daniel Hannan got blocked by May from even running to be an MP so is stuck as an MEP. Sad really being a supporter of leaving the EU having your only hope to get anything like what you voted for being a No Deal nobodies prepared for probably followed by a government run by Comrade Corbyn and McDonnell | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
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KwarK
United States43581 Posts
On November 27 2018 09:26 Plansix wrote: From afar, it sounds like giving up a lot of tangible benefits for the promise of the possibility of making better deals down the line. And a lot of instability. The average UK citizen seems like the loser here, since there is no way they would be able to keep freedom of movement about the EU. It sounds like if the US ended NAFTA without any planning, only somehow worse. It's closer to secession. The UK wants to continue participating in the shared economy and customs union without allowing freedom of movement and regulatory oversight. | ||
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Plansix
United States60190 Posts
On November 27 2018 11:41 KwarK wrote: It's closer to secession. The UK wants to continue participating in the shared economy and customs union without allowing freedom of movement and regulatory oversight. That seems like a bad deal for the EU. The UK gets to ignore most of the rules like the EU nations have to obey the UK rules the EU has no say over. It is sort of impressive anyone is still able to sell that as a possible outcome. | ||
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maybenexttime
Poland5753 Posts
On November 27 2018 11:41 KwarK wrote: It's closer to secession. The UK wants to continue participating in the shared economy and customs union without allowing freedom of movement and regulatory oversight. Which is why its government failed so horribly at negotiating a decent deal. I'm surprised that May's deal is as good as it is, considering how clueless the British government has seemed throughout the whole process. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On November 27 2018 08:53 Zaros wrote: The EU is not just about trade if it was Brexit would never have happened and its actually quite protectionist to the outside world. The issue is about sovereignty, controlling the border was a big issue but so was freedom to sign trade deals with other countries, making our own laws setting our own tax rates etc. The trouble is the whole negotiation has been run by Remainers as a damage limitation exercise and no preparation was made for No deal weakening our negotiating position further. Nobody wants Mays deal really because it is just giving up stuff for nothing. The people who advocating voting leave have to take some blame too, the two big Leave backers bickered amongst themselves and let May get elected. Douglas Carswell fled politics as did Gisela Stuart leaving morons like Andrea Leadsom and David Davis as the more influential Leavers. Dominic Cummings the chairman of the leave campaign only shows up every 6 months to write a 100,000 word blog about how shit everyone is. Daniel Hannan got blocked by May from even running to be an MP so is stuck as an MEP. Sad really being a supporter of leaving the EU having your only hope to get anything like what you voted for being a No Deal nobodies prepared for probably followed by a government run by Comrade Corbyn and McDonnell Now you're just slipping into propoganda. No preparation was made for No Deal because No Deal is a fucking stupid idea, it was from day one and it is now. There's no 'preparations' to be made. It just plain fucking sucks. It is a sign of abject failure. All you're doing is spouting talking points that have little bearing on reality. The Leavers let May be in charge because none of them had any idea what to do once they had the thing they allegedly wanted. The main guys who swung the vote - Gove and Johnson - both expected the remain vote to win handily. The reason the main leave talkers disappeared from politics is because they had nothing to offer. Everyone's dumping on May for handling a situation that is unhandle-able, that she was handed by her party because they all know it's a clusterfuck. But at least May has a long, storied career directly dealing with the EU and actually knows how our relationship with the EU works. What's been stopping Jacob Rees-Mogg from putting together a comprehensive No-Deal plan to present to May and his fellow MPs? Oh yeah, he doesn't have one. Because they'd all rather talk tough to appeal to idiots than actually do something. The nonsense about sovereignty ignores so much reality that I've come to the conclusion that people who still spout it literally know nothing about how our relations with the EU function and must function going forwards. We've been told over and over that the freedoms are non-negotiable and are part of trade. In other words, we're either going to have no relationship at all with the EU or we're going to be giving up that precious sovereignty anyway. You reckon the UK is going to do great without any trade from the EU? As for making trade deals outside the EU... what do we have to offer? The most attractive thing about the UK until now was that we were an easy way into the EU. We're going to have to around hat in hand begging for nice deals from trading partners infinitely more powerful than we are. You think Mr. AMERICA FIRST is going to give us a great trade deal when he has absolutely zero reason to? China? Maybe the Russians will, I can see Putin having a hearty chortle at Russia becoming one of our great trading partners in the post-Brexit world. And all this without even talking about reverting to fucking WTO rules, the possibility of a second Scottish referendum (remember they only voted to stay because they believed we'd be staying in the EU and Scotland voted overwhelmingly Remain), and the possibility of a return to the troubles if things go south with Northern Ireland, since the Good Friday agreement is null and void if we're no longer in the EU. | ||
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ahswtini
Northern Ireland22212 Posts
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Zaros
United Kingdom3692 Posts
On November 27 2018 19:18 iamthedave wrote: Now you're just slipping into propoganda. No preparation was made for No Deal because No Deal is a fucking stupid idea, it was from day one and it is now. There's no 'preparations' to be made. It just plain fucking sucks. It is a sign of abject failure. All you're doing is spouting talking points that have little bearing on reality. The Leavers let May be in charge because none of them had any idea what to do once they had the thing they allegedly wanted. The main guys who swung the vote - Gove and Johnson - both expected the remain vote to win handily. The reason the main leave talkers disappeared from politics is because they had nothing to offer. Everyone's dumping on May for handling a situation that is unhandle-able, that she was handed by her party because they all know it's a clusterfuck. But at least May has a long, storied career directly dealing with the EU and actually knows how our relationship with the EU works. What's been stopping Jacob Rees-Mogg from putting together a comprehensive No-Deal plan to present to May and his fellow MPs? Oh yeah, he doesn't have one. Because they'd all rather talk tough to appeal to idiots than actually do something. The nonsense about sovereignty ignores so much reality that I've come to the conclusion that people who still spout it literally know nothing about how our relations with the EU function and must function going forwards. We've been told over and over that the freedoms are non-negotiable and are part of trade. In other words, we're either going to have no relationship at all with the EU or we're going to be giving up that precious sovereignty anyway. You reckon the UK is going to do great without any trade from the EU? As for making trade deals outside the EU... what do we have to offer? The most attractive thing about the UK until now was that we were an easy way into the EU. We're going to have to around hat in hand begging for nice deals from trading partners infinitely more powerful than we are. You think Mr. AMERICA FIRST is going to give us a great trade deal when he has absolutely zero reason to? China? Maybe the Russians will, I can see Putin having a hearty chortle at Russia becoming one of our great trading partners in the post-Brexit world. And all this without even talking about reverting to fucking WTO rules, the possibility of a second Scottish referendum (remember they only voted to stay because they believed we'd be staying in the EU and Scotland voted overwhelmingly Remain), and the possibility of a return to the troubles if things go south with Northern Ireland, since the Good Friday agreement is null and void if we're no longer in the EU. You accuse me of propaganda lol | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
Ain't an accusation when it's true. | ||
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TheDwf
France19747 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22093 Posts
On November 30 2018 19:28 TheDwf wrote: May has offered one, Corbyn has not yet accepted as per www.theguardian.comI read that there will be a debate next week about May's deal between May and Corbyn, can anyone confirm? | ||
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