UK Politics Mega-thread - Page 415

On March 08 2018 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Honestly the only thing that comes to mind given his background is, “a traitor died a traitor’s death.”

On March 08 2018 04:00 Plansix wrote:

Her father is to blame for putting her in danger with by being a traitor. And the police officer is a fault for getting involved in matters that should not concern him or the British people.

On March 08 2018 04:05 Artisreal wrote:
Fyi he's using /s

On March 08 2018 04:06 Zaros wrote:


Well I take it back if so but hard to tell with some people on this forum

On March 08 2018 03:53 LegalLord wrote:
Honestly the only thing that comes to mind given his background is, “a traitor died a traitor’s death.”

On March 08 2018 04:12 Plansix wrote:

It was my bad. I thought about using /s, but decided against it. Clearly my sarcasm was not strong enough.

On March 08 2018 19:22 iamthedave wrote:


You ARE in the UK politics thread, so it was a fair thing not to use. I mean, sarcasm is how we get through the day, and pretty much our biggest export. I read it as sarcasm. But you must bring powerful sarcasm-fu to an environment with lots of British people. We expect it to be thicker.

On the other hand, I feel temp banning LL for that post was a tad harsh.

The situation is a horrible one, but he is a Russian traitor; it's not a big shocker that they'd have a go at killing him. Isn't treason still punishable by death in the US, at least? Or in some places therein. I don't buy the values dissonance that comes with these incidents; there'd be no sympathy and calls for heads if we had a bonafide traitor revealed to us, so it's a bit rich to make a moral fuss about that aspect.

It's also not the first time they've caught up to spies in asylum in the UK. I wonder why they chose now to do it, though.

The real question - and more important one - is whether he was given proper protection by the crown for the service he did to the country, whether this was negligence on our part or success on the Russians'.

On March 08 2018 20:24 mahrgell wrote:


But you realized the part where he got trialed in Russia and was later exchanged?

If from now on prisoner/spy exchanges always result in "here, you can have your guy back and then we kill him a bit later anyway" they are kinda pointless, I would say.

On March 08 2018 20:08 Silvanel wrote:
This isnt really the proper thread but that list isn't complete. See for example: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg#Execution
Your linked list seem to only contain people convicted of treason while spies can be also tried for other crimes. For example espionage in linked case.

I am very intrested what UK decides to do. How will they retaliate.

As he lay dying Alexander Litvinenko solved his own murder and foresaw the future. A professional detective on his last case, with himself as the victim, he worked out that he had been poisoned in the Pine Bar of the Millennium Hotel in Mayfair, by another former KGB detective, Andrei Lugovoi. He had thought they were partners, investigating the connections between Putin’s Kremlin, organised crime and money laundering in Europe but, he now realised, Lugovoi was still taking orders from the people they were investigating. As Litvinenko’s hair came out in clumps, as he found it increasingly hard to open his mouth to talk, as he became yellow and shrivelled, he cursed himself for letting his guard down: he had assumed he was safe after receiving asylum and citizenship in the UK. But solving the crime, Litvinenko understood, was only the beginning. Would the British government risk undermining its financial interests by investigating his death properly?

‘Of course I understand the West wants to get gas and oil from Russia,’ he told inspectors from Scotland Yard who interviewed him in hospital, ‘but one shouldn’t be involved in political activity if one doesn’t have political beliefs. And beliefs can’t be traded for gas and oil. Because when a businessman is trading he’s trading with his money but when a politician is trading he is trading with the sovereignty of his country and the future of his children.’ The transcripts of Litvinenko’s interviews were released last year; he was clearly trying hard to win the police over to his cause. He was good at speeches. ‘In case there is from the top administrative pressure for political reasons,’ he said, ‘be firm … bring this case to the end.’ The men from Scotland Yard were impressed by his faith in them: ‘Last month I was granted British citizenship and I very much love this country. Possibly I may die, but I will die as a free person, and my son and wife are free people. And Britain is a great country.’

Litvinenko died four days later, on 23 November 2006.

On March 08 2018 21:41 Simberto wrote:
But they don't care about that. The message is "We can kill you whenever we want, whereever we want, if you piss us off". If they didn't want to send that message, they could kill people in a way that is less obviously that of a spy agency. So what if someone else starts killing people in the same way? People are just going to wonder how these new victims pissed of russia, and the same message still stands.

On March 08 2018 22:08 Dan HH wrote:


And nations could use those to get political support or funding for bigger geopolitical goals than some 'we can kill u' message.

On March 08 2018 23:15 iamthedave wrote:


What possible 'bigger political support' or 'geopolitical goals' could someone use the messages for? Everyone already hates the Russians. The EU is anti-Russia, we are, and the US is. China's not going to change its critical-but-uninvolved position on Russia, and nobody else has an opinion they're going to care about. That's the thing; Putin loses nothing by doing this, save putting pressure on sources inside Russia. Why break faith with his administration if you know one day he'll track you down and get even?

That's a pretty useful message to be sending when your administration is pretty damn corrupt.

And there's a hard-capped limit to retaliations that can be launched against Russia, due to the EU needing their gas and oil, in particular.

Not to mention, it's highly unlikely they'll ever get a conviction related to this, nor ironclad proof. We - probably - know how Livanenko was killed, but it'll never 100% be cleared up. Same for this latest incident. Whoever did it is probably in Russia again, where they're safe.

On March 09 2018 00:17 Dan HH wrote:

I don't buy the 'Russia doesn't care' narrative, they've been losing their minds over the missile shields on their borders. They avoided US sanctions by a whisker and I'm sure they're aware that the EU's share of renewable energy has been growing by roughly 1% per year for a while now. I find it unlikely that NATO would still exist today without Russia's refusal to play the PR game. Hell, the one guy that saved them from US sanctions suggested dismantling it, do you reckon that these cold war style methods of Putin's make that kind of policy easier to get support for?