EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 413
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Velr
Switzerland10756 Posts
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Since then it's mostly just been a circlejerk talking about how dumb Brexit is, giving the incompetence/sabotage of the party leadership as proof, with no serious opposition. Hence, consistent "I miss bardtown." | ||
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Nyxisto
Germany6287 Posts
in fact if everybody thinks you're doing something terribly stupid the chances are very high that it is in fact stupid | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
But it's not really my country or my battle to face, so it's best to leave it at that. The attempt of the British government to fix - or sabotage under the guise of fixing - the Brexit process will interest me. | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9673 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:38 Nyxisto wrote: sometimes things are just dumb no matter if you have an opposition or not, not everything that is unanimously despised or supported is a circlejerk in fact if everybody thinks you're doing something terribly stupid the chances are very high that it is in fact stupid I have been consistently against Brexit on here but I think it could work, and could be beneficial. The problem is we were always doing it for roughly the wrong reasons, and more importantly our government is beholden to a faction within it who want Brexit for exactly the wrong reasons. Not only that, but we have divided incompetents in charge and there's no real hope of anyone better taking over, so at this point it would be better just to not Brexit at all. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:52 LegalLord wrote: Being unanimously despised or supported didn't make it a circlejerk. Being a circlejerk made it a circlejerk. But it's not really my country or my battle to face, so it's best to leave it at that. The attempt of the British government to fix - or sabotage under the guise of fixing - the Brexit process will interest me. I'm curious, how would you define 'circlejerk'? On February 18 2018 02:57 Jockmcplop wrote: I have been consistently against Brexit on here but I think it could work, and could be beneficial. The problem is we were always doing it for roughly the wrong reasons, and more importantly our government is beholden to a faction within it who want Brexit for exactly the wrong reasons. Not only that, but we have divided incompetents in charge and there's no real hope of anyone better taking over, so at this point it would be better just to not Brexit at all. The problem with - and doom of - Brexit is that it wasn't a true cultural movement, and came about because of a calculated political risk that shouldn't have ended up the way it did, and wouldn't if not for a couple of spectacularly self-serving individuals. The groundswell for Brexit started with the Daily Fail obsessing over immigrants for about two decades straight and constantly ratcheting up the rhetoric, backed up by Nigel Farage making the occasional good point while being racist and heading a party of racists, but holding interviews at a pub so he was clearly the common man. That mirrored activity in the Conservative Party underbelly, and led to them losing people to UKIP to the point that UKIP started to become a threat to the Conservative Party as a whole, risking either a split or actually overtaking it. So David Cameron decided to do away with UKIP and end the disunity once and for all with the referendum, certain that if he did it later, he'd have lost, but if he did it then he'd likely win. But then Michael Gove and Boris Johnson decided to go into business for themselves, sure they could make capital with the leave crew on this can't miss sure to end up with 'stay' referendum vote. The result was that they ended up being two of the most influential people in the entire affair, split the Conservatives EVEN MORE, and as a result turned most of the Party against them internally. So two MPs decided to make some political bank on a 'safe' referendum vote that was always a calculated risk, and their assholery likely swung the bar just enough towards leave thanks to a couple of staggeringly enormous lies, leaving David C - pretty much our most competent politician at the time - deciding to take the nuclear option and fuck them all over by stepping down, well aware that Gove and Johnson had no idea what to do with the disaster they'd made of his plan. So in steps Theresa May, who - I am 100% certain - didn't want Brexit, almost certainly voted to remain, but wasn't politically cancerous like Gove and Johnson, and now has to try and legislate an absolute nightmare with a Party still fractured and infighting, and even worse, do the thing she has always been shit at: public speaking. She's basically Hilary Clinton; a policy wonk who is good at behind the scenes work but is about as personable as the Terminator. Nobody has any vision of what post-Brexit looks like, because literally everyone involved at the top level didn't actually think that a leave vote was even possible, and the two asshats who thought to make political bank out of it were the least prepared of all, but logically speaking one of THEM is who should be Prime Minister, since at least we'd have a pro-Leave PM. Sorry for the long rant. I'm sure you know all of that. But occasionally the absurdity of it overwhelms and I just need to let it out somewhere. | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
On February 18 2018 03:37 iamthedave wrote: I'm curious, how would you define 'circlejerk'? In this context? Consistent "preaching to the choir," caricaturing reasons why people actually made the decision they made, strawmanning up the justifications and/or considerations involved, so on and so forth. And being ridiculously redundant about it all and inserting the topic into every potential issue that may or may not be related to Brexit. I'm sure the people involved see nothing wrong with how they did it, a necessary quality of keeping a good circlejerk going. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18039 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:52 LegalLord wrote: Being unanimously despised or supported didn't make it a circlejerk. Being a circlejerk made it a circlejerk. But it's not really my country or my battle to face, so it's best to leave it at that. The attempt of the British government to fix - or sabotage under the guise of fixing - the Brexit process will interest me. You renounce your Queen and motherland? What? Tea and crumpets for everybody! | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On February 18 2018 02:29 LegalLord wrote: Yeah, he supported it despite the fact that the UK chose some of the most inept leaders possible to lead the transition. Of course, the bigger problem was that he never knew when to walk away from a troll conversation, which led to a series of bans after which he lost interest in participating at all. Since then it's mostly just been a circlejerk talking about how dumb Brexit is, giving the incompetence/sabotage of the party leadership as proof, with no serious opposition. Hence, consistent "I miss bardtown." But we all know you were pro Brexit too. Or did you change your mind? | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On February 18 2018 03:44 LegalLord wrote: In this context? Consistent "preaching to the choir," caricaturing reasons why people actually made the decision they made, strawmanning up the justifications and/or considerations involved, so on and so forth. And being ridiculously redundant about it all and inserting the topic into every potential issue that may or may not be related to Brexit. I'm sure the people involved see nothing wrong with how they did it, a necessary quality of keeping a good circlejerk going. I only see this in this thread from non-UK posters. | ||
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Sent.
Poland9207 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On February 18 2018 07:58 kollin wrote: I only see this in this thread from non-UK posters. I'm absolutely sure that given definition applies to some UK posters here who like to be strawmen just to troll or cause unnecessary arguments. Dangermousecatdog is an excellent example. | ||
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Dapper_Cad
United Kingdom964 Posts
On February 18 2018 18:47 sc-darkness wrote: I'm absolutely sure that given definition applies to some UK posters here who like to be strawmen just to troll or cause unnecessary arguments. Dangermousecatdog is an excellent example. For future reference. No one is a strawman. A strawman is a fictional version of a position that someone creates in order to score points. So "...some UK posters here who like to fight strawmen just to troll...". Though I'll accept strawman as a verb so "..some UK posters who like to strawman just to troll..." would also work. You've got me there. They United Kingdom is not, in fact, the United States of America. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
This is a good addition to the reform stuff I was talking about earlier. If Brexit is to take back control, control should actually be taken back. | ||
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9673 Posts
On February 19 2018 05:10 KelsierSC wrote: I think we need a referendum to change the name from "Brexit" to something less retarded Why? Its a retarded thing to do, it might as well have a retarded name. In fact, I would be in favour of renaming everything to do with government and giving them all retarded names. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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KelsierSC
United Kingdom10443 Posts
On February 19 2018 06:08 sc-darkness wrote: What's sad is if there is another vote, a lot of people are said to vote for Brexit again.. No lesson is learnt. Well many so called educated people have been labelling anyone who voted leave as Stupid and un-educated, despite not understanding or empathizing with the lives or views of those people. If another vote came around why would they admit a mistake and give those same people the opportunity to be smug. | ||
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iamthedave
England2814 Posts
On February 19 2018 08:28 KelsierSC wrote: Well many so called educated people have been labelling anyone who voted leave as Stupid and un-educated, despite not understanding or empathizing with the lives or views of those people. If another vote came around why would they admit a mistake and give those same people the opportunity to be smug. Many actually educated people were dead right. Anyone - ANYONE - who voted for Brexit over immigration control and who thought we'd stay in the single market is categorically stupid, since the two things cannot effectively coexist. The 'Norwegian model' that's been touted ignores a lot of different factors between us and Norway that mean it wouldn't work very well for us to adopt it. ANYONE who bought Boris Johnson's 350 million line is categorically stupid. It was a classic 'big lie' that anyone should have been able to see through with a slight application of basic thinking. And anyone who would maintain their vote just to avoid proving other people right is also stupid. | ||
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Simberto
Germany11547 Posts
On February 19 2018 08:28 KelsierSC wrote: Well many so called educated people have been labelling anyone who voted leave as Stupid and un-educated, despite not understanding or empathizing with the lives or views of those people. If another vote came around why would they admit a mistake and give those same people the opportunity to be smug. "I was stupid, but you pointed out that i was stupid, so i am going to double down on being stupid so i don't have to admit that you were right when you said i was stupid." The best argument, and a wonderful way of showing that oneself is not stupid. | ||
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