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Longshank
1648 Posts
On February 15 2018 05:58 sc-darkness wrote: No, I'm not insane but you clearly can't read. What did I deny? That you equated government-run services to communism? You do know people can read your previous posts right? | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9672 Posts
On February 15 2018 06:30 sc-darkness wrote: Yes, I did say it. Where did I deny saying it? I once again ask you: can you read? I got the impression you were denying it too. It seems to just be a misunderstanding. Nothing to see here. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On February 15 2018 06:39 Jockmcplop wrote: I got the impression you were denying it too. It seems to just be a misunderstanding. Nothing to see here. No, I just agreed with you at the time that it was a bit oversimplified. It wasn't the right way to describe socialist government. I still believe in smaller government though. I just said that I didn't deny saying it. There's a difference between changing stance and denying. That's why some people need to read better and stop jumping into conclusions about something which has never been said/done. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On February 15 2018 05:07 sc-darkness wrote: Well, I gave you an example already - telecoms in the UK isn't privatised properly. Now it costs more than some countries and you get less. If you go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openreach , you'll get an idea why I say it's not privatised properly. By comparison, in my country, even though it's not #5 or #6 economy like the UK, I pay more than twice less and get TV subscription on top of it. Clearly, something is wrong. I don't see why this field can't be privatised though. I'm more than happy with what I get from it at the moment. I never argued about essential services like water and healthcare though. Railways are an essential service. | ||
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Artisreal
Germany9235 Posts
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
Railways aren't an essential service in the strictest sense of "essential". Here is what dictionary says. essential noun [ C usually plural ] UK /ɪˈsen.ʃəl/ US /ɪˈsen.ʃəl/ a basic thing that you cannot live without: Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/essential Surely you can live without railways. People did it before they were invented. Also, there are buses (or, coaches as you call them in the UK). That said, UK railway is used more for commuting than in some other countries. I think you mean "necessary". | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18037 Posts
On February 15 2018 20:35 sc-darkness wrote: Railways aren't an essential service in the strictest sense of "essential". Here is what dictionary says. Dictionary: https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/essential Surely you can live without railways. People did it before they were invented. Also, there are buses (or, coaches as you call them in the UK). That said, UK railway is used more for commuting than in some other countries. That's a pretty dumb definition of essential. Using that definition, electricity, telephone lines and even sewers aren't essential. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
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Gorsameth
Netherlands21755 Posts
Good public transport is a massive boon to any society. | ||
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Acrofales
Spain18037 Posts
On February 15 2018 20:40 sc-darkness wrote: Strictly speaking, yes, they're not. You can live without them if you really want to. You won't die if you do it. Is it convenient? No. Argue with Cambridge dictionary about definition though. You're the one who is taking that definition as gospel truth after proposing that "only essential services" should be run by the government: On February 15 2018 05:07 sc-darkness wrote: Well, I gave you an example already - telecoms in the UK isn't privatised properly. Now it costs more than some countries and you get less. If you go to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Openreach , you'll get an idea why I say it's not privatised properly. By comparison, in my country, even though it's not #5 or #6 economy like the UK, I pay more than twice less and get TV subscription on top of it. Clearly, something is wrong. I don't see why this field can't be privatised though. I'm more than happy with what I get from it at the moment. I never argued about essential services like water and healthcare though. Water and healthcare would obviously fall under the Cambridge dictionary's definition. You seem to agree with me that there are other services, such as sewerage and electricity lines, which should be guaranteed by the government despite not being "essential" according to the definition you proposed. So which one is it? The government should run some non-essential services in addition to the strict essential ones? Or your definition of essential needs to be broadened. In either case, there is obviously room for broadening it to cover public transport, and this whole part of the discussion stems from you thinking public transport should *not* be a government run service (because private run trains in England are a shining beacon of awesome compared to Bulgaria's (if I recall?) public run trains). Note: I'm not actually arguing one way or the other here on public transport, just pointing out that the foundations of your argument are wrong and need to be replaced, probably with something like *your own opinion* instead of trying to hide behind definitions. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
On February 15 2018 20:51 Gorsameth wrote: When you know you lost the argument a while ago and need to bitch about definitions to score points... Good public transport is a massive boon to any society. Nope, I didn't lose the argument. You're just a bitter socialist who can't accept a definition by Cambridge. I doubt you know English more than Cambridge dictionary so maybe shut up? No one said public transport isn't a good thing, but thanks for saying the obvious. It's just I'm more inclined to accept privatised railways than you. Assuming privatisation is done properly. If not, then state funded railways is probably a better option. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On February 15 2018 20:55 sc-darkness wrote: Nope, I didn't lose the argument. You're just a bitter socialist who can't accept a definition by Cambridge. I doubt you know English more than Cambridge dictionary so maybe shut up? No one said public transport isn't a good thing, but thanks for saying the obvious. It's just I'm more inclined to accept privatised railways than you. Assuming privatisation is done properly. If not, then state funded railways is probably a better option. That's our point, it's IMPOSSIBLE to privatise railways in the UK properly - and it has failed subsequently. You can bitch about definitions all you like, but many people wouldn't be able to live without the railways because they need them to get to work. They are essential to modern life. Call people bitter socialists all you like, you still don't seem to have any evidence on this subject except your own preconceptions and opinions which are, more or less, worthless. | ||
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sc-darkness
856 Posts
There is a warning on top of this thread. Read it and follow it if you want to have a meaningful discussion in the future, whether it's with me or someone else. User was warned for this post | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10756 Posts
Just let it rest and step back... (Or actually give in, but thats not going to happen...). | ||
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Jockmcplop
United Kingdom9672 Posts
Grab yo pitchforks, lefties! | ||
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LegalLord
United Kingdom13775 Posts
Otherwise who else is there for us to direct strawmanned up grievances against? | ||
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Deleuze
United Kingdom2102 Posts
On February 15 2018 20:55 sc-darkness wrote: Nope, I didn't lose the argument. You're just a bitter socialist who can't accept a definition by Cambridge. I doubt you know English more than Cambridge dictionary so maybe shut up? No one said public transport isn't a good thing, but thanks for saying the obvious. It's just I'm more inclined to accept privatised railways than you. Assuming privatisation is done properly. If not, then state funded railways is probably a better option. Just to correct your point about it being a definition 'by Cambridge.' Dictionaries collect definitions identified in usage, they don't (or shouldn't) function as a rule book for the language; they function purely as a record. The word isn't defined by Cambridge, nor is it through Cambridge's authority that the definition is agreed; instead, it is through the rigor and expertise (one hopes) of Cambridge, that gives assurance to the validity of the statistical scholarly methods used to define the words. This is a common misconception. Moreover, this record tends to overlook more nuanced usages or technical terms, and a differences that arise from phrases. However, 'essential service' is a misnomer here: in it's strictest sense, an Essential Service, is a service legislated by government such that strikes are restricted or prohibited. What is really under discussion here is the notion of a Public Good: a service or product that is non-rivalrous and non-excludable, meaning that partaking in a Public Good does not diminish it's availability to others and that making it available to one automatically makes it available to all. Public transport, such as railways, fit this very easy, and are common examples in the literature. In my view it is hence impossible to privatize such services, given that there is no marginal utility, without creating a quasi-monopoly. | ||
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kollin
United Kingdom8380 Posts
On February 15 2018 22:33 sc-darkness wrote: Well, my opinion is valuable. If yours is worthless, then that's your problem. Once again, I call you a bitter socialist who wants to silence anyone with a different opinion. Learn what freedom of speech is. Learn to respect others if you want to be respected. Until you learn how to respond respectfully, I will continue to reply to your comments reciprocally. There is a warning on top of this thread. Read it and follow it if you want to have a meaningful discussion in the future, whether it's with me or someone else. Not all opinions are born equal. I'm not denying your freedom of speech, I'm not disrespecting you, but I have absolutely no respect towards your opinion on privatisation of railways. It is clearly an opinion formed from ideology and assumption, and one that does not reflect the reality of privatisation in Britain (if you would also take a look at the top of this thread, you will notice it's for discussion surrounding the UK). | ||
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Velr
Switzerland10756 Posts
But when people talk about privatisation they normally don't mean it like that. | ||
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