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United Kingdom36161 Posts
On December 19 2013 08:30 Nyxisto wrote:
My personal favorites from their manifesto:
-"Let's leave the EU", as if that wouldn't be political suicide.
-"Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas."
Yes, because as we all know nuclear reactors are fueled with love and happiness, and not with expensive fast diminishing uranium.
-"Remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights."
Obviously, because who cares about those pesky human rights anyway.
-"The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law."
Sure , let's just ignore international law, it's not like we live in the globalized 21st century.
Sorry but the party has national-socialism written all over it, ridiculous populist stuff combined with cheap anti-establishment slogans.
As deconstructions go, this really isn't a good one tbh
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On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:Show nested quote +On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country?
Keep us in the EU, hopefully 
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On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully
Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour.
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On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour.
We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen.
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United States44333 Posts
On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen.
It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation.
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On December 20 2013 01:35 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen. It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation.
Well but the UK isn't Norway. You're the 2nd most populous country in the EU. I feel like opting out of the EU would leave the UK in a very awkward place. I also don't get what's so terrible about being an EU member.
I get that national politicians blaming the EU repeatedly for all the bad things happening to their countries is very fashionable today, but what bad things has the EU actually done to the UK?
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United States44333 Posts
For most British people it's a sovereignty issue. We don't like sovereignty being passed abroad. We like the single market but we don't like impositions upon our way of life, our legal system and so forth. The political project to integrate Europe into a federation is one the vast majority of British people are strongly opposed to on principle. There is no reason why a country cannot be part of the single market while not moving forwards on political integration, as I said, a great many other countries already enjoy this status along with special arrangements for travel and so forth.
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On December 20 2013 02:58 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 01:35 KwarK wrote:On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen. It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation. Well but the UK isn't Norway. You're the 2nd most populous country in the EU. I feel like opting out of the EU would leave the UK in a very awkward place. I also don't get what's so terrible about being an EU member. I get that national politicians blaming the EU repeatedly for all the bad things happening to their countries is very fashionable today, but what bad things has the EU actually done to the UK?
Its protectionist we would have far more free trade deals if we weren't in the EU, over regulates, a few taxes come from the EU VAT is one of them, and its blatantly unaccountable. I like how everyone throws out the Norway and Switzerland examples both have higher standard of living, less government and at least for switzerland lots more free trade deals.
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United States44333 Posts
It's perhaps something that Germans can't really empathise with because Germany itself only formed relatively recently and did so without any real binding ideal (first time didn't include all Germans because of Austrian opposition, second time was relatively brief and included all Germans by force but was unpopular, following that it didn't even include half of modern Germany and even now on the fourth attempt you still have Germans all over the place (Switzerland, Austria, Czech Rep, Poland etc). Your nation is less determined by fixed boundaries with a less clear sense of us and them. Britain is an island and has been for the last five centuries, we know who we are and we're certain we want to be in charge of ourselves.
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Its protectionist we would have far more free trade deals if we weren't in the EU
I'm not sure if i get your point. The EU is a single market, it doesn't get much freer(is that a word?) than that. And protectionism isn't really a good thing, especially for customers.
your nation is less determined by fixed boundaries with a less clear sense of us and them. Britain is an island and has been for the last five centuries, we know who we are and we're certain we want to be in charge of ourselves.
I get that, but being a member of the EU isn't going to take that away. I feel like the EU-skepticism is largely a product of fear mongering of politicians that struggle to solve their countries problems and have to point the finger at someone else. I mean the EU isn't really doing anything significant. They're struggling to get a bank union running that won't have any effect anyway.
And that Germany, due to it's history, has been reluctant to fall back on traditionalist impulses has at least in my eyes been really beneficial for the country. With all the shit the country had to endure, that it ended up being more federal and dynamic nowadays and lacks national tendencies is a very big plus.
Don't take this as an insult, but sometimes i feel like the UK and France are the two old grumpy noblemen of Europe that no matter how the reality has changed just don't want to accept that they'll going to have to give up some of their old approaches and maybe start to open up and modernize a bit.
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On December 20 2013 03:34 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +
Its protectionist we would have far more free trade deals if we weren't in the EU
I'm not sure if i get your point. The EU is a single market, it doesn't get much freer(is that a word?) than that. And protectionism isn't really a good thing, especially for customers. Show nested quote +
your nation is less determined by fixed boundaries with a less clear sense of us and them. Britain is an island and has been for the last five centuries, we know who we are and we're certain we want to be in charge of ourselves.
I get that, but being a member of the EU isn't going to take that away. I feel like the EU-skepticism is largely a product of fear mongering of politicians that struggle to solve their countries problems and have to point the finger at someone else. I mean the EU isn't really doing anything significant. They're struggling to get a bank union running that won't have any effect anyway. And that Germany, due to it's history, has been reluctant to fall back on traditionalist impulses has at least in my eyes been really beneficial for the country. With all the shit the country had to endure, that it ended up being more federal and dynamic nowadays and lacks national tendencies is a very big plus. Don't take this as an insult, but sometimes i feel like the UK and France are the two old grumpy noblemen of Europe that no matter how the reality has changed just don't want to accept that they'll going to have up some of the old approaches and maybe start to open up and modernize a bit.
There is free trade (not completely, most services ironically 70% of the UK economy are still taxed in the EU) in the EU but what about the rest of the world..., the EU can't even get a free trade agreement with america a supposed allie. Also the EU is doing significant things it regulates practically everywhere it might not be headline grabbing stuff but it hurts businesses that can't afford an army of lobbyists in Brussels and undermines democracy.
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On December 19 2013 22:29 marvellosity wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 08:30 Nyxisto wrote:
My personal favorites from their manifesto:
-"Let's leave the EU", as if that wouldn't be political suicide.
-"Scrap all green taxes, wind turbine subsidies and adopt nuclear power to free us from dependence on fossil fuels and foreign oil and gas."
Yes, because as we all know nuclear reactors are fueled with love and happiness, and not with expensive fast diminishing uranium.
-"Remove the UK from the jurisdiction of the European Court of Human Rights."
Obviously, because who cares about those pesky human rights anyway.
-"The law of the land must be single and apply to us all. We oppose any other system of law."
Sure , let's just ignore international law, it's not like we live in the globalized 21st century.
Sorry but the party has national-socialism written all over it, ridiculous populist stuff combined with cheap anti-establishment slogans.
As deconstructions go, this really isn't a good one tbh
I don't really see the UK leaving the single market, though trying to have their own system of laws not subject to supranational authority is a legitimate aim. Thanks but no thanks to other courts that also pay lip service to human rights.
Modern nuclear reactors are generally cheaper power even considering the cost of the fuel. It delivers raw power, not diffuse energy at a trickle, and takes up quite a bit less space. If you're worried about the antiquated designs of Japan's BWR's, go thorium MSR's (no uranium). It's an alternative worth supporting and discussing.
I don't know how well international law has worked out thus far. A lot of bark, no bite until the atrocities are already done. Just because big companies are multinational and news spreads fast doesn't mean a country's citizens should subjugate their justice to what everybody else thinks is proper punishment.
EU immigration policies are in direct contrast to an island country. There is a broad question of how well to construct immigration policies for nations with long land boundaries that also work for one with only ports.
2013 local elections stood 23% for UKIP? Clearly, no self respecting person could ever possibly support this party!
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On December 20 2013 02:58 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 01:35 KwarK wrote:On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen. It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation. Well but the UK isn't Norway. You're the 2nd most populous country in the EU. I feel like opting out of the EU would leave the UK in a very awkward place. I also don't get what's so terrible about being an EU member. I get that national politicians blaming the EU repeatedly for all the bad things happening to their countries is very fashionable today, but what bad things has the EU actually done to the UK?
1) costs us £27.4 billion pounds a year.
2) We have 0 control over our borders. To deport foreign criminals we MUST get permission from the European parliament.
3) Pointless, and frankly clunky, useless legislation that prevents productivity. If we do scrap the Human rights act, our governments policy is we will replace it with a bill of rights, that is set by the BRITISH government.
4) Pointless and ludacris lies about global warming and that we must build more stupid, ugly and useless wind farms. It's been proven that there has been 0 global warming in the past 20 years. If we were to stop those stupid things being built, and safer nuclear power or coal stations were built, our energy prices would decrease drastically & would also create more jobs.
5) 75 % of British laws are made by the European union.
6) The head faces in the European parliament are ex-commies. I'm sure you wouldn't want your country run by communists would you?
7) We could trade freely with the whole of the commonwealth, Asia, the Americas etc.
I could go on for eternity about the benefits, but you can figure those out yourself. It's all about common sense politics rather than over complicating things.
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On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:Show nested quote +On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully
Please read at my post above this one, and look over the benefits of leaving the political relationship with the European government. By the way, you do realise that the head people in the EU are ex-commies? Just saying.
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United States44333 Posts
On December 20 2013 04:02 Joel-E wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 02:58 Nyxisto wrote:On December 20 2013 01:35 KwarK wrote:On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen. It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation. Well but the UK isn't Norway. You're the 2nd most populous country in the EU. I feel like opting out of the EU would leave the UK in a very awkward place. I also don't get what's so terrible about being an EU member. I get that national politicians blaming the EU repeatedly for all the bad things happening to their countries is very fashionable today, but what bad things has the EU actually done to the UK? 1) costs us £27.4 billion pounds a year. 2) We have 0 control over our borders. To deport foreign criminals we MUST get permission from the European parliament. 3) Pointless, and frankly clunky, useless legislation that prevents productivity. If we do scrap the Human rights act, our governments policy is we will replace it with a bill of rights, that is set by the BRITISH government. 4) Pointless and ludacris lies about global warming and that we must build more stupid, ugly and useless wind farms. It's been proven that there has been 0 global warming in the past 20 years. If we were to stop those stupid things being built, and safer nuclear power or coal stations were built, our energy prices would decrease drastically & would also create more jobs. 5) 75 % of British laws are made by the European union. 6) The head faces in the European parliament are ex-commies. I'm sure you wouldn't want your country run by communists would you? 7) We could trade freely with the whole of the commonwealth, Asia, the Americas etc. I could go on for eternity about the benefits, but you can figure those out yourself. It's all about common sense politics rather than over complicating things.
You realise Peter Mandelson was EU Trade Commissioner (most important economic figure in the EU), right?
The EU also sends a lot of money to the UK. It goes both ways.
The EU has a smaller civil service than Birmingham city council, it's not this giant bureaucracy.
You hate wind farms.
75% of statistics are made up by you
We tried trading freely with the whole of the Commonwealth all through the 60s and 70s back when the European Community was proposed as an idea. The British economy stagnated while the EC countries grew. That's why we joined the EU. Read a book.
Rather than go on for eternity you should spend that time educating yourself about the subject.
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4) Pointless and ludacris lies about global warming and that we must build more stupid, ugly and useless wind farms.
Okay, at that point i think it doesn't make much sense to continue that discussion with you.No offense, but i have just decided for myself that i'll not discuss anything with people who think that climate change is a hoax.
Modern nuclear reactors are generally cheaper power even considering the cost of the fuel.
The topic is a little controversial, but as far as i know general consensus is that in the short run nuclear power is significantly more expensive than oil/gas, but cheaper than renewable energy. In the long run renewable energy is least expensive, due to prices for fossil fuels and uranium going up. And naturally the only choice, as renewable energy is the only energy source we're not going to run out of.
EU immigration policies are in direct contrast to an island country. There is a broad question of how well to construct immigration policies for nations with long land boundaries that also work for one with only ports.
Sorry but we have these things called planes. Nowadays flying has become the cheapest and fastest way to travel. There are many factors that affect a countries immigration policy, but it's geographical shape is probably the least important one.(inside the EU, for regions with war at their borders or similar problems that's another issue.)
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On December 20 2013 04:15 Nyxisto wrote:Show nested quote +4) Pointless and ludacris lies about global warming and that we must build more stupid, ugly and useless wind farms. Okay, at that point i think it doesn't make much sense to continue that discussion with you.No offense, but i have just decided for myself that i'll not discuss anything with people who think that climate change is a hoax. Show nested quote +Modern nuclear reactors are generally cheaper power even considering the cost of the fuel. The topic is a little controversial, but as far as i know general consensus is that in the short run nuclear power is significantly more expensive than oil/gas, but cheaper than renewable energy. In the long run renewable energy is least expensive, due to prices for fossil fuels and uranium going up. And naturally the only choice, as renewable energy is the only energy source we're not going to run out of. Show nested quote +
EU immigration policies are in direct contrast to an island country. There is a broad question of how well to construct immigration policies for nations with long land boundaries that also work for one with only ports.
Sorry but we have these things called planes. Nowadays flying has become the cheapest and fastest way to travel. There are many factors that affect a countries immigration policy, but it's geographical shape is probably the least important one.
I never said it was a hoax. I just said it has been hijacked and turned into a stupid argument. Which sadly, because of mass media, people seem to believe anything they here.
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On December 20 2013 04:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 04:02 Joel-E wrote:On December 20 2013 02:58 Nyxisto wrote:On December 20 2013 01:35 KwarK wrote:On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:On December 17 2013 23:03 Wombat_NI wrote:
If there are policies of theirs you think are valid, why not tell us all about them? I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen. It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation. Well but the UK isn't Norway. You're the 2nd most populous country in the EU. I feel like opting out of the EU would leave the UK in a very awkward place. I also don't get what's so terrible about being an EU member. I get that national politicians blaming the EU repeatedly for all the bad things happening to their countries is very fashionable today, but what bad things has the EU actually done to the UK? 1) costs us £27.4 billion pounds a year. 2) We have 0 control over our borders. To deport foreign criminals we MUST get permission from the European parliament. 3) Pointless, and frankly clunky, useless legislation that prevents productivity. If we do scrap the Human rights act, our governments policy is we will replace it with a bill of rights, that is set by the BRITISH government. 4) Pointless and ludacris lies about global warming and that we must build more stupid, ugly and useless wind farms. It's been proven that there has been 0 global warming in the past 20 years. If we were to stop those stupid things being built, and safer nuclear power or coal stations were built, our energy prices would decrease drastically & would also create more jobs. 5) 75 % of British laws are made by the European union. 6) The head faces in the European parliament are ex-commies. I'm sure you wouldn't want your country run by communists would you? 7) We could trade freely with the whole of the commonwealth, Asia, the Americas etc. I could go on for eternity about the benefits, but you can figure those out yourself. It's all about common sense politics rather than over complicating things. You realise Peter Mandelson was EU Trade Commissioner (most important economic figure in the EU), right? The EU also sends a lot of money to the UK. It goes both ways. The EU has a smaller civil service than Birmingham city council, it's not this giant bureaucracy. You hate wind farms. 75% of statistics are made up by you We tried trading freely with the whole of the Commonwealth all through the 60s and 70s back when the European Community was proposed as an idea. The British economy stagnated while the EC countries grew. That's why we joined the EU. Read a book. Rather than go on for eternity you should spend that time educating yourself about the subject.
Can you tell me what statistics are made up?
By the way, I do hate wind farms: What's the point of them?
The UK is the EU's biggest export. Britain, France & Germany are keep the failing Euro afloat.
It may not be big. Doesn't need to be. They still have massive power over the EU.
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United Kingdom3482 Posts
On December 20 2013 04:22 Joel-E wrote:Show nested quote +On December 20 2013 04:15 KwarK wrote:On December 20 2013 04:02 Joel-E wrote:On December 20 2013 02:58 Nyxisto wrote:On December 20 2013 01:35 KwarK wrote:On December 20 2013 00:38 jello_biafra wrote:On December 19 2013 23:36 Zaros wrote:On December 19 2013 23:27 Zealos wrote:On December 19 2013 08:17 Joel-E wrote:On December 17 2013 23:22 Jockmcplop wrote:
[quote]
I thought there was only one of them.... You obviously know nothing about them then. They are NOT a protest party. By the way, can you tell me what letting the LibLabCon establishment in again will do for our country? Keep us in the EU, hopefully Probably won't do that, but letting UKIP in won't help the country with anything either if you look at their manifesto its pretty much spend more tax less and more social conservatism, i'd rather have lib + con maybe not labour. We're not going to leave the EU, no way that would actually happen. It's feasible that we'll end up an associate member of the single market in the way several other non EU members are. There is no reason why you can't pick and choose, it's been done before. What you can't do is be politically involved in the management of the EU while simultaneously opting out of the EU legislation. Well but the UK isn't Norway. You're the 2nd most populous country in the EU. I feel like opting out of the EU would leave the UK in a very awkward place. I also don't get what's so terrible about being an EU member. I get that national politicians blaming the EU repeatedly for all the bad things happening to their countries is very fashionable today, but what bad things has the EU actually done to the UK? 1) costs us £27.4 billion pounds a year. 2) We have 0 control over our borders. To deport foreign criminals we MUST get permission from the European parliament. 3) Pointless, and frankly clunky, useless legislation that prevents productivity. If we do scrap the Human rights act, our governments policy is we will replace it with a bill of rights, that is set by the BRITISH government. 4) Pointless and ludacris lies about global warming and that we must build more stupid, ugly and useless wind farms. It's been proven that there has been 0 global warming in the past 20 years. If we were to stop those stupid things being built, and safer nuclear power or coal stations were built, our energy prices would decrease drastically & would also create more jobs. 5) 75 % of British laws are made by the European union. 6) The head faces in the European parliament are ex-commies. I'm sure you wouldn't want your country run by communists would you? 7) We could trade freely with the whole of the commonwealth, Asia, the Americas etc. I could go on for eternity about the benefits, but you can figure those out yourself. It's all about common sense politics rather than over complicating things. You realise Peter Mandelson was EU Trade Commissioner (most important economic figure in the EU), right? The EU also sends a lot of money to the UK. It goes both ways. The EU has a smaller civil service than Birmingham city council, it's not this giant bureaucracy. You hate wind farms. 75% of statistics are made up by you We tried trading freely with the whole of the Commonwealth all through the 60s and 70s back when the European Community was proposed as an idea. The British economy stagnated while the EC countries grew. That's why we joined the EU. Read a book. Rather than go on for eternity you should spend that time educating yourself about the subject. Can you tell me what statistics are made up? By the way, I do hate wind farms: What's the point of them? The UK is the EU's biggest export. Britain, France & Germany are keep the failing Euro afloat. It may not be big. Doesn't need to be. They still have massive power over the EU.
The point of wind farms is energy production that doesn't use fossil fuels. I thought that was obvious.
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EPT
