EPTUK Politics Mega-thread - Page 282
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Gorsameth
Netherlands22073 Posts
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MyTHicaL
France1070 Posts
Nissan has not confirmed anything, because the government seems to have promised one thing in private and something very different in public. Also it can be said that they aren't so naive as to the EUs position should a hard brexit occur. If PA takes over European operations of Opel/Vauxhall, you can bet any amount of money that out of sheer charity (and possible reputation) they will respect the current manufacturing contracts signed, but it would be beyong stupid, without some ridiculous tax breaks, to pretend that they will choose the UK for manufacturing in the future. But I'm sure the car industry isn't anything Britain should care about. Good thing we have that cartoon posted earlier. Of course her excellency can always promise nice tax haven style advantages to these companies, keep so many jobs, robbing the country of any income. I'm sure that that's a positive somehow. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
Look at the language of this tweet. If Brexiteers 'steal the UK from the EU'. Steal. The opposition does the work for me at this point. Looks like the lords will pass an amendment to the A50 bill regarding rights of EU citizens already resident in the UK to remain. I am pretty indifferent on this. I have no doubt the government will agree to this anyway, eventually. It would be impossible to do otherwise given the mood in the country, and doing so early could be a sign of good will. I understand the argument that they need to protect the rights of UK citizens resident in the EU, too, but that also seems inevitable to me. If they didn't reciprocate it would be a very ugly show of character. Still, the govt has tried to make this agreement with the EU already, so it is the EU's decision to refuse to negotiate on any issue prior to A50 that has stopped it happening already. The government position is pragmatic, but a symbolic show of good will might itself be more pragmatic. They have more or less assured the rights of EU citizens to remain already anyway; why not make it into a headline for the EU papers? It would technically be gambling with the rights of UK citizens, I guess. Either way, I don't much care as long as the bill passes on schedule. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On February 28 2017 22:43 LightSpectra wrote: And if I show a tweet from a crazy Brexiteer, will that prove "just how weak the [Leaver] case has become"? I wasn't even referring to the tweet when I said that. Are you calling mythical crazy? How rude. But please do go ahead. I challenge you to find a public intellectual Brexiteer who implies something as ridiculous as the UK being the property of the EU. If you succeed I will laugh at them with you  . | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
Of course Farage's stupidity/lies is not proof that Brexit was a bad idea. But just the same, citing one stupid tweet from a Remainer also does nothing to prove your case. That's what we call a strawman fallacy. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On February 28 2017 22:56 LightSpectra wrote: Nigel Farage's big campaign point was that Brexit will open up hundreds of millions of pounds per month. So how many months is it gonna take to pay off that 60 billion exit bill you're getting? Do the math. Of course Farage's stupidity/lies is not proof that Brexit was a bad idea. But just the same, citing one stupid tweet from a Remainer also does nothing to prove your case. That's what we call a strawman fallacy. That was not Farage's big campaign point. I did the maths on the last page. After accounting for assets it would take ~4 years to make savings equivalent to the remaining 40 billion by not paying EU membership fees. That assumes that none of those investments feedback into the UK economy in any way, which is unlikely. It's not a straw man fallacy. It is a direct response. You may not like his tweet but you cannot will it out of existence. Likewise, if you criticise Farage it is not a straw man - unless, of course, you claim his key point was something that it wasn't. Oops. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
At the very least I provide examples as opposed to blind assertions without any evidence at all. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/brexit-eu-referendum-racial-racism-abuse-hate-crime-reported-latest-leave-immigration-a7104191.html All Brexiteers are racist trash. See how racist you are? Gonna establish racial segregation now that there's no EU holding you back? | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
The irony, really. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
On March 01 2017 00:06 bardtown wrote: I seem to remember when I posted about Tony Blair I was told he was a political non-entity, too. Maybe the problem is that there are no truly relevant people left in the opposition? Blair (and Major) are infinitely more relevant than Grayling are, although the strongest Remainer arguments come from those actually in office, like Ken Clarke and David Lammy. You'd best be responding to them instead of trying to find the dumbest Remainer you can. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
I listened to Ken Clarke's speech and heard nothing new. No adjustment of his views to account for the strength of the UK economy following the vote. We went through all of this in the months leading up to June 23rd. Given that the economy has held up better than even the staunchest Brexiteers expected, why would anyone find his arguments any more persuasive now? And all his talk about voting against the public in good conscience was nothing more than virtue signalling. It's all well and good because he knows it will achieve nothing, but if the rest of the MPs followed suit it would have created a real constitutional crisis. If anything I think you demonstrate my point nicely. Blair, Lammy, Major... all widely disliked politicians who are perceived as standing in the way of the democratic process. Let's not mention Heseltine leading the anti-Brexit charge in the lords - a man currently best known for strangling his dog. Sturgeon is probably the best liked opposition politician left (not saying much), and her intentions are transparently to further Scottish nationalism and nothing more. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
But that argument's been hashed to death, no point in kicking that dead horse again. | ||
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
On March 01 2017 00:50 LightSpectra wrote: Being a Remainer in the face of the referendum isn't anti-democracy. Farage himself said that there should be a second referendum if Brexit lost by 52-48, of course he's shut up about it now because he knows most people have gotten buyer's remorse over it. But that argument's been hashed to death, no point in kicking that dead horse again. http://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/do-you-think-the-uk-made-the-rightor-wrong-decision-in-deciding-to-leave-the-eu/ Stop peddling your myths and we can leave the poor horse to rest in peace. | ||
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
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bardtown
England2313 Posts
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LightSpectra
United States2055 Posts
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