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On June 11 2013 00:01 JimmiC wrote:
But Tom Brady and Kornikova are not good comparisons since One is a winner and great looking and one is only good looking. Look at the basketball player Rick Fox, he was not great and is very good looking and Kornikova he made lots of money outside of sports based on looks. And Tom Brady did make more money based on looks anyways. There is a Billion examples of non attractive women that are still successful. Martina Navratilova is an example of this. She is one of the best Female Tennis Players of all time, not very attractive. annika sorenstam best Golfer of her era, Not every attractive very successful. When making a comparison you have to compare as close as you can Apples to Apples. You are Saying because this Apple (Tom Brady good looking and winner) is successful and kornikova (good looking and no wins) Both made more moeny then peers blah blah, and then make conclusions based on your false comparision it just doesn't work. A better comparision would be sharapova and brady both were winners. Both made tons of cash because of both. Or the comparsion I early made of NBA players Tyrone Hill and Rick Fox. Look em up big guy.
Lets face it Looks matter in all aspects of society, they always have and always will, as long as mamals find certain traits attractive we will do more for those mamals. Female sport is no more sexualized then male sport. People arn't drafted to teams, make the Olympics, so on based on looks. Will advertizers spend there money on the better looking ones. Yes. But they will also spend there money on the people from the country where they want there product purchased. Are we going to complain about the nationalism of sport because an american who gets a bronze medal makes more advertizing dollars then a Canadian who wins Gold? Come on, lets stop being such a sensitive society and worry about real problems like hunger, rape, murder.
Men being sexualized does not mean women aren't. If you've kept track of my examples most of them have been the sexualization of men. So you trying to tell me that such and such male athlete is also good looking is a very silly response since my examples of sexualized celebrities have been Ricky Martin and Justin Bieber.
Do we sexualize women in sports? If we simply go by your comments on this thread we do. You and many others have said repeatedly that it is pointless to watch women's sports for their talents since men are better and that the only reason to watch them is their looks. That, by definition, is sexualizing them--putting more importance in their looks than their talents.
I don't know how your basket ball player names are supposed to counteract sexualization like its somehow a math problem where me and women are on opposing sides canceling each other out.
The OP asked, are women sexualized in sports. The short answer is yes. Do we also sexualize men? Yes. Do these women get popular through ads? Yes. Does that make null the initial point that women are sexualized? No. Because the existence of one wrong does not counteract the existence of other wrongs.
Do I feel that it is sports as an entity doing it? No. The only people perpetuating it are the consumers. The people who watch sports and buy magazines, watch TV, etc... Sports is part of society, and society sexualizes it's citizens; hence, sports also sexualizes it's participants--women included.
So yes, the answer to the OP is that women are sexualized. Some people like you get upset that its pointed out and start posting on threads like these telling everyone that it doesn't count because men are also sexualized. But telling me that men are sexualized does not counter the fact that women are sexualized and hence is irrelevant to the discussion.
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On June 11 2013 00:27 JimmiC wrote:
If the OP's only goal was are women sexualized in sport then it is like "is the grass green, or is the Sky blue" Of course they are, all people are in all aspects of life. He was insinuating that it is more in womens sports and that there is somethign wrong with how womens sports is viewed. I am trying to show it happens in both sports and all aspects of life.
Secondly if you go back and read your own posts and my posts I think you will see who is getting upset =-)
Also, the sexualization of women and men, and all mamals has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen. My point is in sport specifically as long as the best atheletes are getting to highest level of athletics and not just the pretty ones than it is ok. My other point to early ranting in the thread is most people, men and women, like to feel sexy and have people think they are beautiful. Esspecially people who spend a large part of there life working on there bodys.
No I don't think that no one will watch womens sports just because they are worse. I do think that less will. I love watching sports, I will give hockey as a example. My favorite to watch is the NHL. THe best is the playoffs where they are ttrying the hardest and playing there best. The best at there best is the best. Does this mean I won't watch other levels? No I do. I watch the WHL where under 21's play, I watch womens, I watch the local kids some times. There is a thrill in sports watching the drama unfold with no predetermined outcomes. Its just even more thrilling at the highest level to find out who is absolute best. If you are a sports fan you will probably appreciate what I have said if not then I'm not sure you are posting in a thread where you have such little understanding of the topic.
A.) He is saying that it happens more in Women's Sports than in Men's Sports--not that it happens more in sports overall. Which is given more credence by the fact that many people in this thread have already commented (more than once) that women's sports is less athletic than women's sports and hence needs the "gimmick" of being sexy for people to watch.
B.) My stance has not changed, yours has. My examples have not changed, yours has. I don't know how that would dictate me getting upset when you're the one adapting your argument the more holes it has.
C.) People being sexy and people being admired has nothing to do with sexualization. It's only a problem when their worth is measured on their aesthetics moreso than their results.
For example, I don't watch Tennis. But I know Kornikova's name and I know Sharapova's name. Sharapova has won championships while Kornikova has not. And yet, those are the names that pop up in the media. It is possible that both are being praised for the same reasons (be it skill or beauty) but the fact that Kornikova and Sharapova are as well known as each other is problematic because if you don't have to win grand slams to be as known as the champion--then the champion is less likely to be known for the grand slams at all.
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On June 11 2013 00:27 JimmiC wrote:
If the OP's only goal was are women sexualized in sport then it is like "is the grass green, or is the Sky blue" Of course they are, all people are in all aspects of life. He was insinuating that it is more in womens sports and that there is somethign wrong with how womens sports is viewed. I am trying to show it happens in both sports and all aspects of life.
Secondly if you go back and read your own posts and my posts I think you will see who is getting upset =-)
Also, the sexualization of women and men, and all mamals has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen. My point is in sport specifically as long as the best atheletes are getting to highest level of athletics and not just the pretty ones than it is ok. My other point to early ranting in the thread is most people, men and women, like to feel sexy and have people think they are beautiful. Esspecially people who spend a large part of there life working on there bodys.
No I don't think that no one will watch womens sports just because they are worse. I do think that less will. I love watching sports, I will give hockey as a example. My favorite to watch is the NHL. THe best is the playoffs where they are ttrying the hardest and playing there best. The best at there best is the best. Does this mean I won't watch other levels? No I do. I watch the WHL where under 21's play, I watch womens, I watch the local kids some times. There is a thrill in sports watching the drama unfold with no predetermined outcomes. Its just even more thrilling at the highest level to find out who is absolute best. If you are a sports fan you will probably appreciate what I have said if not then I'm not sure you are posting in a thread where you have such little understanding of the topic.
Indeed, in all sports they are being sexualized. It mostly only happens to successful athletes though, but if they are also hot their popularity seems to boom.
I do think it happens in both gender sports, but to a higher degree with women. Anna Kournikova is a good example. She never did anything significant, the top of her career was rank 8 in the world and only for a short time, but she is probably the most famous tennis player ever.
In football the hot guys get on frontpages of several female magazines to make girls drool, but there are mostly always better players than those on the front pages.
To me though, it seems that both men and women follow the beautiful athletes more, while men seems to mostly follow either good performance or personality. This might be because many female athletes take better care of their looks, so females fans look at them as role models, both as an athlete and a woman.
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On June 11 2013 01:24 Cinim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 00:27 JimmiC wrote:
If the OP's only goal was are women sexualized in sport then it is like "is the grass green, or is the Sky blue" Of course they are, all people are in all aspects of life. He was insinuating that it is more in womens sports and that there is somethign wrong with how womens sports is viewed. I am trying to show it happens in both sports and all aspects of life.
Secondly if you go back and read your own posts and my posts I think you will see who is getting upset =-)
Also, the sexualization of women and men, and all mamals has happened since the dawn of time and will continue to happen. My point is in sport specifically as long as the best atheletes are getting to highest level of athletics and not just the pretty ones than it is ok. My other point to early ranting in the thread is most people, men and women, like to feel sexy and have people think they are beautiful. Esspecially people who spend a large part of there life working on there bodys.
No I don't think that no one will watch womens sports just because they are worse. I do think that less will. I love watching sports, I will give hockey as a example. My favorite to watch is the NHL. THe best is the playoffs where they are ttrying the hardest and playing there best. The best at there best is the best. Does this mean I won't watch other levels? No I do. I watch the WHL where under 21's play, I watch womens, I watch the local kids some times. There is a thrill in sports watching the drama unfold with no predetermined outcomes. Its just even more thrilling at the highest level to find out who is absolute best. If you are a sports fan you will probably appreciate what I have said if not then I'm not sure you are posting in a thread where you have such little understanding of the topic.
Indeed, in all sports they are being sexualized. It mostly only happens to successful athletes though, but if they are also hot their popularity seems to boom. I do think it happens in both gender sports, but to a higher degree with women. Anna Kournikova is a good example. She never did anything significant, the top of her career was rank 8 in the world and only for a short time, but she is probably the most famous tennis player ever. In football the hot guys get on frontpages of several female magazines to make girls drool, but there are mostly always better players than those on the front pages. To me though, it seems that both men and women follow the beautiful athletes more, while men seems to mostly follow either good performance or personality. This might be because many female athletes take better care of their looks, so females fans look at them as role models, both as an athlete and a woman.
The reason women care so much about looks and keep track of celebrities who also look beautiful stems from the fact that we socially inform women that what we care about the female is her sexiness and not her credentials. So, for the same reason I keep track of MMA, ForGG, Demuslim, and Innovation when it comes to becoming a better Terran player, women keep track of models to become better "pretty women" in order to increase their worth in society.
They all do it differently. Some women keep track of apparel, some keep track of accessories, others shoes, etc... When women are raised to be beautiful wives they (just like men do) min-max the shit out of their responsibilities. Sure they aren't trying to out jump Lebron--but they'll definitely try to out fashion Kornikova. Because when a person's worth is linked to their looks, their admirers will either mimic them or wish to consume them. (Speaking in a market based system of course, I don't actually think being pretty makes other people into cannibals)
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We are humans, everything is sexualized.
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On June 11 2013 01:59 sambo400 wrote:
We are humans, everything is sexualized.
Everything *can* be sexy.
But not everything is sexualized.
For example, if a farmer gets turned on by sheep and fucks them day and night--he has not sexualized the sheep, he simply is fucking them.
If the farmer buys one sheep over another because one is sexy and the other isn't--you can argue that he's sexualizing sheep; because then he's giving one sheep more worth than the other sheep simply because of looks.
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I think you all are grossly overestimating the media exposure of female athletes.
"Ordinarily women's sport attracts just 5 per cent of all media coverage and receives 0.5 per cent of all commercial sponsorship." (Sue Tibbals, chief executive of the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation)
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On June 11 2013 02:16 Poffel wrote:I think you all are grossly overestimating the media exposure of female athletes. "Ordinarily women's sport attracts just 5 per cent of all media coverage and receives 0.5 per cent of all commercial sponsorship." ( Sue Tibbals, chief executive of the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation)
"all media coverage" is a damn big swathe... that includes local news, international news, weather, films, etc...
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On June 11 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 02:16 Poffel wrote:I think you all are grossly overestimating the media exposure of female athletes. "Ordinarily women's sport attracts just 5 per cent of all media coverage and receives 0.5 per cent of all commercial sponsorship." ( Sue Tibbals, chief executive of the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation) "all media coverage" is a damn big swathe... that includes local news, international news, weather, films, etc...
Yeah, right, because that's what she meant when she commented on coverage of the 2012 olympics. Did you even read the source I linked, or are you just making stuff up as you go?
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On June 11 2013 02:56 Poffel wrote:Show nested quote +On June 11 2013 02:51 Thieving Magpie wrote:On June 11 2013 02:16 Poffel wrote:I think you all are grossly overestimating the media exposure of female athletes. "Ordinarily women's sport attracts just 5 per cent of all media coverage and receives 0.5 per cent of all commercial sponsorship." ( Sue Tibbals, chief executive of the Women's Sport and Fitness Foundation) "all media coverage" is a damn big swathe... that includes local news, international news, weather, films, etc... Yeah, right, because that's what she meant when she commented on coverage of the 2012 olympics. Did you even read the source I linked, or are you just making stuff up as you go?
I did read. She said that it's awesome that people are excited about the olympics and are okay talking about women in the general media, and wished it continued past the olympics.
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It's so funny that some idiots actually care about such trivial things such as "objectification" using sexual themes or whatever. Why do people care? The person in the photo obviously gets paid a lot of money for it, so I'm sure they are happy with it lol.. It's the ugly, old, and/or fat people out there that are jealous and thinks that everyone else needs to care about their feelings.
Here is a hint: evolve. Stop being an ape. Sex doesnt mean a damn thing if you dont want it to. Genetics my ass. Boring life you say? Well then go ahead, go be entertained by your jealousy and anger lol. Have fun.
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Please note: everything is sexualised. This is a completely null discussion unless you have something to say about the negatives/positives of sexualisation in this context. Does it damage viewership numbers? No. Does it damage marketing potential? No. Is it avoidable? No. Would it be a good thing if it was avoidable? Almost certainly not.
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On June 11 2013 03:11 bardtown wrote:
Please note: everything is sexualised. This is a completely null discussion unless you have something to say about the negatives/positives of sexualisation in this context. Does it damage viewership numbers? No. Does it damage marketing potential? No. Is it avoidable? No. Would it be a good thing if it was avoidable? Almost certainly not.
But it's because of the rich and beautiful people that all us fat lazy americans get such a bad rep! If they used some out of shape, miserable guy for their iconic figures, maybe we can all be happier!
This is what I imagine some people legitimately thinking about objectification and marketing lol.
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Sad but true, The only way for *some women sports competition to gain mass popularity is by sexualizing its athletes.
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On June 11 2013 03:21 Robot Buddha wrote:
Sad but true, The only way for *some women sports competition to gain mass popularity is by sexualizing its athletes.
Which is what the OP was pointing out. I have yet to see boxer football but bikini basketball is definitely a thing. Part of it is just how we manage bodies in the media. It's okay to show as much T&A as possible but we are not okay with showing men's dicks. Those are private.
The problem isn't the sport, but the people who run it, and the people who consume it.
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On June 11 2013 03:09 ishyishy wrote:
It's so funny that some idiots actually care about such trivial things such as "objectification" using sexual themes or whatever. Why do people care? The person in the photo obviously gets paid a lot of money for it, so I'm sure they are happy with it lol.. It's the ugly, old, and/or fat people out there that are jealous and thinks that everyone else needs to care about their feelings.
Here is a hint: evolve. Stop being an ape. Sex doesnt mean a damn thing if you dont want it to. Genetics my ass. Boring life you say? Well then go ahead, go be entertained by your jealousy and anger lol. Have fun.
i tried to respond seriously to this post and i just...i just couldn't. how can any reasonable person stereotype any even slightly disenfranchised group as "entertained by their own jealousy"? what does that even mean in the context of this thread, where we've been discussing how women are sexualized...are you then saying that anyone who complains is jealous of women who are? everyone loves being considered as a thing and not a person, it's so obvious!
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women sabre fancing at london olympics was cool. Men sabre fancing was 10 times cooler. Thats why.
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For sure a big part yes.
Like the women's division in the UFC wouldn't work without its sex appeal.
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EPT
