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Bitcoin discussion thread - Page 52

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tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-17 22:04:18
January 17 2018 12:32 GMT
#1021
Hot tip here guys:



/s
Grovbolle
Profile Blog Joined July 2011
Denmark3811 Posts
January 17 2018 13:43 GMT
#1022
On January 17 2018 08:38 Korakys wrote:
I think the ideal cryptocurrency would have an expiring blockchain. Say if a coin hasn't been transacted in 3 months then it is deleted forever. (You would have to make the coins indivisible for this to work.) This would prevent the blockchain from becoming too unwieldy for daily use.

Other things I would have: an oracle network that would sense what the major fiat currencies are worth and automatically buyback or create coins to keep the price stable with a composite of them; a minimum transaction fee to prevent high-speed trading; and a multi-tiered network like Dash has with its Masternodes.

The key factor to make cryptocurrency useful is making it unprofitable to invest in, the profit should come from confirming transactions.


Amen
Lies, damned lies and statistics: http://aligulac.com
RvB
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Netherlands6248 Posts
January 17 2018 14:14 GMT
#1023
How would you ever achieve that? Every currency has a value and as long as it has one you'll be able to profit (or lose) from it. The Forex markets are huge.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43212 Posts
January 17 2018 15:08 GMT
#1024
Without speculators you also have no price discovery mechanism and with no price discovery mechanism you cannot use it as a means of exchange (unless you peg it to an external commodity).
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
January 17 2018 15:10 GMT
#1025
On January 17 2018 18:04 PoulsenB wrote:
If bitcoin or any other cryptocurrency wants to become a mainstream financial instrument it will have to get regulated at some point. People may not know or deny it (because "regulation is bad waaaaah"), but banks and governments' financial institutions do huge amount of work on things like preventing scams and money laundering or stopping funds from going to terrorists organisations or sanctioned entities. If cryptos get big enough to be a widely used currency alternative there will be people who will try to scam and exploit their users. Governments and banking systems might not be ideal, but they do provide safety nets for the financial systems they oversee.


No... blockchain already regulates itself and prevents fraud. What needs to get regulated is the exchanges people leave their coins on; the ones that are actual ponzi schemes. But that's also an issue with the user and trusting any cryptocurrency exchange, and leaving their coins on them.
Life?
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
January 17 2018 15:12 GMT
#1026
Also hot tip, don't take advice from Trevor James and Bitconnect. It's run by a 17yr old who has no actual knowledge in the space.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7r0ftz/cryptonick_is_deleting_all_of_his_bitconnect/
Life?
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43212 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-17 16:06:53
January 17 2018 15:32 GMT
#1027
Bitconnect was always a ponzi scheme. Consider

1. To buy in you need to give them good money (bitcoin), however your investment is denominated in bad money (bitconnect coin)
2. 1% daily returns, denominated in bad money (bitconnect coin)
3. Pyramid based referral systems and bonuses, also paid out in bad money
4. Significant disincentive to turn your bad money back into good money, because bad money compounds which makes it worth more good money in the future

What you have here is a system that pays out colossal returns to anyone who buys into it, but the returns are paid out in monopoly money and you have to buy in using actual money. The entire thing only works as long as you believe the promise that you can one day trade your monopoly money back for real money, and at the same exchange rate you bought in at. But that's mathematically impossible. The best case scenario is that the total amount of bitconnect coin are backed by the total bitcoins received for them, such that if the bitconnect coins in circulation are doubled then the bitcoin denominated value of each bitconnect coin halves.

Let's imagine the same system with gold and dollars for a second. A thousand people each buy in with 1oz of gold for $1,000. The central bank is now holding 1,000 oz of gold, and the people collectively have $1,000,000. They're promised 1% daily returns, denominated in dollars, by the central bank. After 72 days the people collectively have $2,000,000, but the central bank still only has 1,000 oz of gold. Therefore the absolute best case scenario here is that gold is now $2,000/oz if you want to cash back out. What bitconnect was doing was equivalent to the central bank promising that the dollars would be worth the same amount of gold in the future, even though the number of dollars was increasing and no gold was being created. They promised to create gold from air.

It only works for as long as the users don't ever try to turn their dollars back into gold in any significant volume. The system makes it irrational to ever convert back because the dollars create more dollars daily and have referral bonuses whereas the gold doesn't do anything so why would you want to have the gold when you can keep dollars and have more dollars worth even more gold tomorrow. But, of course, you can't convert your dollars back into even more gold tomorrow because there's only so much gold in the system. The exchange rate you were promised doesn't really exist. The people running the scheme will cash themselves out at that rate until there is no more gold, and then you'll be left with the paper.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1366 Posts
January 17 2018 15:33 GMT
#1028
On January 17 2018 08:38 Korakys wrote:
I think the ideal cryptocurrency would have an expiring blockchain. Say if a coin hasn't been transacted in 3 months then it is deleted forever. (You would have to make the coins indivisible for this to work.) This would prevent the blockchain from becoming too unwieldy for daily use.

Other things I would have: an oracle network that would sense what the major fiat currencies are worth and automatically buyback or create coins to keep the price stable with a composite of them; a minimum transaction fee to prevent high-speed trading; and a multi-tiered network like Dash has with its Masternodes.

The key factor to make cryptocurrency useful is making it unprofitable to invest in, the profit should come from confirming transactions.



Isnt this easy to work around? people can just trade the coins with themselves/friends and multiple accounts.
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-17 21:39:21
January 17 2018 21:21 GMT
#1029
On January 18 2018 00:12 ShoCkeyy wrote:
Also hot tip, don't take advice from Trevor James and Bitconnect. It's run by a 17yr old who has no actual knowledge in the space.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CryptoCurrency/comments/7r0ftz/cryptonick_is_deleting_all_of_his_bitconnect/


Did I need to put /s?

This article sums it up pretty well:

In a menacing turn of events yesterday, Bitcoin investment lending platform BitConnect abruptly announced it is shutting down its lending and exchange services. But while this sudden “curveball” might have come as a massive surprise for thousands of gullible investors, the writing was on the wall all along.

The company, which made its foray into the cryptocurrency scene with an initial coin offering (ICO) in late December 2016, swiftly cemented its position as one of 2017’s best performing currencies on CoinMarketCap. Indeed, during its heyday, BitConnect boasted a market cap of over $2.6 billion and a value exceeding the $400 mark.

But despite its meteoric growth and burgeoning user base, the investment platform attracted a swarm of naysayers with its suspicious business model, which vocal critics repeatedly labeled a Ponzi scheme.


Guaranteed to earn investors up to 40 percent total return per month, BitConnect followed a four-tier investment system based on the sum of initial deposit – the more cash you put down, the bigger and faster profits you could rake in.

Regardless of the stake though, investors were promised a one-percent return of investment (ROI) on a daily basis. To this end, the company had developed its own proprietary “trading bot and volatility software” that would turn your Bitcoin investment into a fortune. Or so the information provided on the website suggested.

This meant that salting $1,000 away into your BitConnect investment account could net you more than $50 million within three years, assuming the scheme does indeed live up to its promise for one-percent interest compounded on a daily basis. Needless to say though, many deemed this model unsustainable.

Among the first ones to voice his concern with the company was Ethereum founder Vitalik Buterin. “If [one percent per day] is what they offer,” he said on Twitter back in November, “then that’s a [P]onzi [scheme].”

Despite these warnings, BitConnect continued to pick up momentum.

Indeed, the company relied on an aggressive marketing strategy on all fronts. Putting aside its extensive digital and event marketing efforts, the company had enlisted a large army of multi-level affiliate marketers to recruit new investors, who could then work their way up by bringing in even more new investors – and so on and so on. In the real world, we call this a pyramid scheme.


https://thenextweb.com/hardfork/2018/01/17/bitconnect-bitcoin-scam-cryptocurrency/

And this is just going to be the first of many.

ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
January 17 2018 21:36 GMT
#1030
Possibly, there were people that easily dropped money into bitconnect.
Life?
tomatriedes
Profile Blog Joined January 2007
New Zealand5356 Posts
January 17 2018 21:44 GMT
#1031
On January 18 2018 00:32 KwarK wrote:
Bitconnect was always a ponzi scheme. Consider

1. To buy in you need to give them good money (bitcoin), however your investment is denominated in bad money (bitconnect coin)
2. 1% daily returns, denominated in bad money (bitconnect coin)
3. Pyramid based referral systems and bonuses, also paid out in bad money
4. Significant disincentive to turn your bad money back into good money, because bad money compounds which makes it worth more good money in the future

What you have here is a system that pays out colossal returns to anyone who buys into it, but the returns are paid out in monopoly money and you have to buy in using actual money. The entire thing only works as long as you believe the promise that you can one day trade your monopoly money back for real money, and at the same exchange rate you bought in at. But that's mathematically impossible. The best case scenario is that the total amount of bitconnect coin are backed by the total bitcoins received for them, such that if the bitconnect coins in circulation are doubled then the bitcoin denominated value of each bitconnect coin halves.

Let's imagine the same system with gold and dollars for a second. A thousand people each buy in with 1oz of gold for $1,000. The central bank is now holding 1,000 oz of gold, and the people collectively have $1,000,000. They're promised 1% daily returns, denominated in dollars, by the central bank. After 72 days the people collectively have $2,000,000, but the central bank still only has 1,000 oz of gold. Therefore the absolute best case scenario here is that gold is now $2,000/oz if you want to cash back out. What bitconnect was doing was equivalent to the central bank promising that the dollars would be worth the same amount of gold in the future, even though the number of dollars was increasing and no gold was being created. They promised to create gold from air.

It only works for as long as the users don't ever try to turn their dollars back into gold in any significant volume. The system makes it irrational to ever convert back because the dollars create more dollars daily and have referral bonuses whereas the gold doesn't do anything so why would you want to have the gold when you can keep dollars and have more dollars worth even more gold tomorrow. But, of course, you can't convert your dollars back into even more gold tomorrow because there's only so much gold in the system. The exchange rate you were promised doesn't really exist. The people running the scheme will cash themselves out at that rate until there is no more gold, and then you'll be left with the paper.


And there was this guy:



MONORAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIILLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
darthfoley
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States8004 Posts
January 17 2018 22:19 GMT
#1032
every time I try to get interested in Cryptocurrency, I realize how technically and business-terminology stupid I am
watch the wall collide with my fist, mostly over problems that i know i should fix
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1366 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-18 01:48:50
January 18 2018 01:47 GMT
#1033
Could 9230 today have been the low,at least for some time to come. What you guys think?
ABC would make 8k-ish a target going from the top but this 9230 kinda looks like a bottom formation to me.
KwarK
Profile Blog Joined July 2006
United States43212 Posts
January 18 2018 02:01 GMT
#1034
I bought in again at $11k and sold out again at $12.2k. But I'm not interested in holding, I just do arbitrage these days.
ModeratorThe angels have the phone box
evilfatsh1t
Profile Joined October 2010
Australia8764 Posts
January 18 2018 05:32 GMT
#1035
On January 18 2018 11:01 KwarK wrote:
I bought in again at $11k and sold out again at $12.2k. But I'm not interested in holding, I just do arbitrage these days.

i think if youre in bitcoin this is the only way to go. make a quick buck by taking advantage of the volatility. i dont see how anyone could put faith in bitcoin as a long term investment
Lightswarm
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Canada967 Posts
January 18 2018 05:34 GMT
#1036
AoV Starleague 2?
Team[AoV]
iPlaY.NettleS
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Australia4356 Posts
Last Edited: 2018-01-18 08:29:38
January 18 2018 08:28 GMT
#1037
This ridiculous 72 hour delay coinbase does for transferring cryptos to a wallet.When i've logged into my coinbase account with 2 factor authentication, when i have sent money to that wallet before, when i am only sending 150 USD worth of crypto to the wallet, when i've already authorised my account with ID.When you can't even speed up the transaction because coinbase support is too overloaded and the autoresolve crap doesn't work (no webcam).

Does GDAX do this? Can go coinbase>GDAX>wallet and not have the ridiculous delay?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e7PvoI6gvQs
pmh
Profile Joined March 2016
1366 Posts
January 18 2018 10:52 GMT
#1038
On January 18 2018 11:01 KwarK wrote:
I bought in again at $11k and sold out again at $12.2k. But I'm not interested in holding, I just do arbitrage these days.



What do you arbitrage then,between the future and btc or between btc exchanges themselves?
Sbrubbles
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil5776 Posts
January 18 2018 13:22 GMT
#1039
On January 18 2018 19:52 pmh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 18 2018 11:01 KwarK wrote:
I bought in again at $11k and sold out again at $12.2k. But I'm not interested in holding, I just do arbitrage these days.



What do you arbitrage then,between the future and btc or between btc exchanges themselves?


I was wondering this as well. I had a few friends commenting on trying to arbitrage between american and asian exchanges, but I don't know how that went. That or Kwark can see the future, so speculation for him is arbitrage
Bora Pain minha porra!
ShoCkeyy
Profile Blog Joined July 2008
7815 Posts
January 18 2018 14:00 GMT
#1040
On January 18 2018 17:28 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
This ridiculous 72 hour delay coinbase does for transferring cryptos to a wallet.When i've logged into my coinbase account with 2 factor authentication, when i have sent money to that wallet before, when i am only sending 150 USD worth of crypto to the wallet, when i've already authorised my account with ID.When you can't even speed up the transaction because coinbase support is too overloaded and the autoresolve crap doesn't work (no webcam).

Does GDAX do this? Can go coinbase>GDAX>wallet and not have the ridiculous delay?


GDAX is Coinbase lol
Life?
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