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On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone.
Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother.
Goddamn fucked up is all this is,
God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too.
Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world.
Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them.
(I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^)
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On April 12 2013 03:46 farvacola wrote:
I think the organization behind this movement is severely discounting how pissed off animal rights folk already are and will be in the face of something as ridiculous as this.
What they ought to be focusing on is the banning of any and all Sarah McLachlan songs from animal rights commercials.
In the aaaaaaaaaarms of an aaaangeeel
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This could be a thinly veiled attempt at protecting suppliers by corporations or those who would benefit by such 'efficiency over humanity' food production.
If you consider that they (lawmakers) would know that any pro animal cruelty bill would get laughed out of the room, this is a more oblique way of preventing the discovery of new animal cruelty cases. The guys in charge know about the recent momentum of food 'cleanup' campaigns and the PR shitstorms that happen when McD and co have, you know whatever obscene thing in their food, or are found to be buying these super mass produced hitler style chickens or whatever, and know they cant just plop out a bill that says all that stuff is ok. But what they can do is quote or appeal to whatever privacy ideals are out there existing in people, and say that videotaping this stuff is not okay-- to make it exponentially harder for new such PR shitstorms to see light.
Edit:
Ah, just noticed that part in the OP.
Scratch the above, though its not wrong :D
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"Instead of ag-gag laws, we need laws that impose basic standards on farm conditions and guarantee our right to know how our food is being produced."
No, you don't need either. You need an increase in civil action matching your interest in the subject. If others wish to participate in civil actions with you, that ought to be their choice. If others simply want to fund your action, that also ought to be their choice. Monitoring and preventing animal abuse must be a matter of choice. People should be allowed to buy from farms which have been proven to practice animal cruelty if they wish, or to simply ignore what is going on without a cent of tax money being spent on their behalf.
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Edit: LOLWUT completely misunderstood this, it's actually not that much against animal cruelty.
Wtf.
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On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:Show nested quote +On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^)
the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded.
"animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains.
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On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains.
That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous.
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On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains.
Recording crimes: morally corrupt or simply illegal?
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On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous.
thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law.
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On April 14 2013 06:13 Cutlery wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. Recording crimes: morally corrupt or simply illegal?
you forgot to add "breaking the law to record alleged crimes."
you do realize that a lot of the stuff that is being recorded is not actually animal abuse, right? so, these guys are breaking the law, not recording animal abuse and then using the records for their own ends. most of the purported "animal abuse" that is recorded is not actually animal abuse. so, you have people breaking the law to uncover legal activity, which they then misrepresent to the world.
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On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains.
The problem is one of the most dependable methods of gathering evidence of animal abuse (video taping it) will be made illegal if these measures pass, which is completely ridiculous.
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On April 14 2013 06:17 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. The problem is one of the most dependable methods of gathering evidence of animal abuse (video taping it) will be made illegal if these measures pass, which is completely ridiculous.
whistle blowing remains legal.
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This is jacked! While I definately do not agree with most of the tenets of animal rights groups, clearly they serve as a checks and balance against some of the worst types of animal cruelty.
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On April 14 2013 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous. thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law.
Alright, let's look at it step by step:
-Person X abuses animals.
-Person Y videotapes X abusing animals with the intent of making it public.
-Legislator steps in and makes law that forbids Y from videotaping X abusing animals.
---> The legislation just made a "pro animal abuse law". Feel free to substitute "animal" with "children" to make it even more obvious.
What happened here is that the documentary of an illegal act gets outlawed. You're right, "ridiculous" or "retarded" are wrong descriptions. "Batshit insane" sounds more up to the task.
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On April 14 2013 06:20 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous. thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law. Alright, let's look at it step by step: -Person X abuses animals. -Person Y videotapes X abusing animals with the intent of making it public. -Legislator steps in and makes law that forbids Y from videotaping X abusing animals. ---> The legislation just made a "pro animal abuse law". Feel free to substitute "animal" with "children" to make it even more obvious. What happened here is that the documentary of an illegal act gets outlawed. You're right, "ridiculous" or "retarded" are wrong descriptions. "Batshit insane" sounds more up to the task.
why do people keep ignoring the fact that "Person Y" is breaking the law as it exists before the ag-gag law...
this doesnt legalize Person X's acts, it criminalizes Person Y's already illegal acts....
also, why dont you try replacing Person X's illegal acts with legal acts. still think Person Y's activities are okay?
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On April 14 2013 06:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:20 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous. thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law. Alright, let's look at it step by step: -Person X abuses animals. -Person Y videotapes X abusing animals with the intent of making it public. -Legislator steps in and makes law that forbids Y from videotaping X abusing animals. ---> The legislation just made a "pro animal abuse law". Feel free to substitute "animal" with "children" to make it even more obvious. What happened here is that the documentary of an illegal act gets outlawed. You're right, "ridiculous" or "retarded" are wrong descriptions. "Batshit insane" sounds more up to the task. why do people keep ignoring the fact that "Person Y" is breaking the law as it exists before the ag-gag law... this doesnt legalize Person X's acts, it criminalizes Person Y's already illegal acts.... also, why dont you try replacing Person X's illegal acts with legal acts. still think Person Y's activities are okay?
Charge them with trespassing, charge them with fraud. Because that's what someone who illegally videotapes someone under those conditions in any other industry gets charged with. We don't criminalize someone videotaping a cop that beats someone - we salute him and aim to punish the cop.
If person X's acts were legal? No one cares about a video showing a cop that arrests someone legitimately without any incident on either side. Did Y still trespass or commit fraud to get into the position to make the tape? Most likely. Feel free to charge them with it.
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On April 14 2013 06:24 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:20 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous. thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law. Alright, let's look at it step by step: -Person X abuses animals. -Person Y videotapes X abusing animals with the intent of making it public. -Legislator steps in and makes law that forbids Y from videotaping X abusing animals. ---> The legislation just made a "pro animal abuse law". Feel free to substitute "animal" with "children" to make it even more obvious. What happened here is that the documentary of an illegal act gets outlawed. You're right, "ridiculous" or "retarded" are wrong descriptions. "Batshit insane" sounds more up to the task. why do people keep ignoring the fact that "Person Y" is breaking the law as it exists before the ag-gag law... this doesnt legalize Person X's acts, it criminalizes Person Y's already illegal acts.... also, why dont you try replacing Person X's illegal acts with legal acts. still think Person Y's activities are okay?
What law is person Y breaking if he just video tapes the abuse taking place? Let's assume that he's not breaking any laws unrelated to the taping such as trespassing on the farm.
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dude, you can lawyer the crap out of people but it doesn't matter, people know that some of the laws are shit.
you hiding behind them doesn't help; also, no one cares when you are legally right if something is morally (even subjectively) wrong.
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On April 14 2013 06:32 Tewks44 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:20 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous. thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law. Alright, let's look at it step by step: -Person X abuses animals. -Person Y videotapes X abusing animals with the intent of making it public. -Legislator steps in and makes law that forbids Y from videotaping X abusing animals. ---> The legislation just made a "pro animal abuse law". Feel free to substitute "animal" with "children" to make it even more obvious. What happened here is that the documentary of an illegal act gets outlawed. You're right, "ridiculous" or "retarded" are wrong descriptions. "Batshit insane" sounds more up to the task. why do people keep ignoring the fact that "Person Y" is breaking the law as it exists before the ag-gag law... this doesnt legalize Person X's acts, it criminalizes Person Y's already illegal acts.... also, why dont you try replacing Person X's illegal acts with legal acts. still think Person Y's activities are okay? What law is person Y breaking if he just video tapes the abuse taking place? Let's assume that he's not breaking any laws unrelated to the taping such as trespassing on the farm.
fraud and contract law appear to be the primary violations, but there may be additional ones based on the person's actions (e.g., breaking and entering).
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On April 14 2013 06:30 r.Evo wrote:Show nested quote +On April 14 2013 06:24 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:20 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 06:15 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 06:11 r.Evo wrote:On April 14 2013 05:56 dAPhREAk wrote:On April 14 2013 05:00 Capped wrote:On April 12 2013 03:41 plated.rawr wrote:
What? They're making taping of animal mistreatment illegal, but the actual treatment is a-ok?
What the motherfuck. AFK, I need to hit something, or someone. Im with this guy, fuck, we can even hit eachother. Goddamn fucked up is all this is, God damn, retards on this planet, get the fuck out of america's law system kthxbye and take your forgien friends in europe, asia and wherever else with you too. Every day i hear about some strange shit going on in the world. Lets let the animals punish them and make it illegal not to film them. (I am in no way slandering a country in my post, retards exist everywhere ^_^) the first post was retarded, but you ended up making it even more retarded. "animal abuse" remains illegal. you guys don't need to punch things, but you do need to learn to use your brains. That still means said law is fundamentally pro animal abuse which makes it ridiculous. thats an absurd assertion. the federal govt has laws that regulate these types of things and agencies that oversee the laws; there are most likely state laws and regulators as well. this is just an attempt to stop vigilantes who want to do it themselves outside the bounds of the law. Alright, let's look at it step by step: -Person X abuses animals. -Person Y videotapes X abusing animals with the intent of making it public. -Legislator steps in and makes law that forbids Y from videotaping X abusing animals. ---> The legislation just made a "pro animal abuse law". Feel free to substitute "animal" with "children" to make it even more obvious. What happened here is that the documentary of an illegal act gets outlawed. You're right, "ridiculous" or "retarded" are wrong descriptions. "Batshit insane" sounds more up to the task. why do people keep ignoring the fact that "Person Y" is breaking the law as it exists before the ag-gag law... this doesnt legalize Person X's acts, it criminalizes Person Y's already illegal acts.... also, why dont you try replacing Person X's illegal acts with legal acts. still think Person Y's activities are okay? Charge them with trespassing, charge them with fraud. Because that's what someone who illegally videotapes someone under those conditions in any other industry gets charged with. We don't criminalize someone videotaping a cop that beats someone - we salute him and aim to punish the cop. If person X's acts were legal? No one cares about a video showing a cop that arrests someone legitimately without any incident on either side. Did Y still trespass or commit fraud to get into the position to make the tape? Most likely. Feel free to charge them with it.
so, you agree that they should be charged for their criminal act, but you dont like that the ag-gag law charges them with a criminal act? i don't get it. we don't criminalize someone videotaping a cop that breaks the law because the videotaper isnt breaking the law to videotape the illegal activity. is this distinction that abstract?
or, are you saying that they should be charged with the criminal act, but the videotape should be usable in criminal proceedings? if that is the case then you should approve this law, because the videotapes have to be turned over to the authorities apparently.
the problem with the animal movement is that they break the law to obtain video (sometimes) and then defame the farms, etc. by airing the tapes when the activities on the tape are completely legal (and a lot of the time sanctioned by the federal gov't). i am sure you dont care if they get defamed, but they damn care and thats why they are pushing for these laws.
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EPT
