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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:27 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:24 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 08:23 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:42 farvacola wrote:
[quote]
This is the definition of slut shaming.....particularly sinc you keep referencing clubs and places where alcohol and drugs are common. I would contend that me being called a "predator" and a "rapist" is more slut-shaming than me enjoying being a slut with someone else being a slut. What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. People absolutely are entitled to have consideration of their wishes taken into account before you do sex stuff to them, rather than simply thinking of "can I get way with it?" and "do I want to do it". Going "that's entitlement" doesn't explain why the thing is bad. The moral principles about consent within the kink scenes apply generally. If someone doesn't want something you don't do it. That simple. I think you have this propaganda image of me in your mind akin to the "greedy jew", rubbing my hands together, scheming, and going "mwhahahaha!". It's pretty offensive. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything. Your posts tell a different story. Maybe it's because of your perception that insists there's a universal law that says I have a different set of rules I must abide by that other people don't? I'm still not down with this idea that I have to assume that people are more willing to have a problem with me than enjoy me.
Because statistically a lot of people do. You are not ignorant of this. It's unfair for you, that sucks, deal with it. The right of other people to informed consent outranks your "right" to fuck strangers the same way everyone else gets to.
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On August 08 2013 08:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:27 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:24 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 08:23 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
I would contend that me being called a "predator" and a "rapist" is more slut-shaming than me enjoying being a slut with someone else being a slut. What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. People absolutely are entitled to have consideration of their wishes taken into account before you do sex stuff to them, rather than simply thinking of "can I get way with it?" and "do I want to do it". Going "that's entitlement" doesn't explain why the thing is bad. The moral principles about consent within the kink scenes apply generally. If someone doesn't want something you don't do it. That simple. I think you have this propaganda image of me in your mind akin to the "greedy jew", rubbing my hands together, scheming, and going "mwhahahaha!". It's pretty offensive. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything. Your posts tell a different story. Maybe it's because of your perception that insists there's a universal law that says I have a different set of rules I must abide by that other people don't? I'm still not down with this idea that I have to assume that people are more willing to have a problem with me than enjoy me. Because statistically a lot of people do. You are not ignorant of this. It's unfair for you, that sucks, deal with it. The right of other people to informed consent outranks your "right" to fuck strangers the same way everyone else gets to.
you were so much more empathetic the first time you said that >.<
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On August 08 2013 08:32 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:21 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:42 farvacola wrote:On August 08 2013 07:40 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
You're taking this too personally. I've never said that you, personally, are afraid to have sex with a trans person. If this was personal, I know *I* wouldn't want to have sex with you even if you for some reason wanted to have it with me.
I get it if they clarify first. If they already have their mouth on my genitals or their penis in me, I think it's perfectly reasonable to assume that they want it. This is the definition of slut shaming.....particularly sinc you keep referencing clubs and places where alcohol and drugs are common. I would contend that me being called a "predator" and a "rapist" is more slut-shaming than me enjoying being a slut with someone else being a slut. What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. Isn't that the exact opposite of how the kink scene works? You have to constantly and especially aware of other people's feelings because you are even more responsible than usual. Come on, how do you not consider yourself a predator after typing that? Communicating limitations beforehand and using safewords is how I kink. If I'm in the "dominant" position and don't care about feeling like a glorified sex toy for a while, I'll agree to only doing what they say they want done without deviation. However, since that quickly leaves me feeling distant and inhuman, I don't do it very much. There's an awful lot of abuse within the scene where people tick the boxes and do whatever the fuck they like because it's damn near impossible to prosecute. Once you let someone tie you up the law pretty much assumes you've abdicated your body to them, even if you prenegotiated the scene. It's bullshit and it's really, really rapey and there is a moral obligation on whoever has the power to protect their partner. That means that if you're doing a no safeword scene (would not recommend) you do not venture outside prenegotiated acts, if they go incommunicative (so headspaced they are unable to utter the safeword) you safeword for them if in doubt, if they consent while headspaced but you have reason to doubt it you ignore it. Above all you protect your partner and yourself from harm. And they do the same, ensuring that you're not over your head, that you know what they want and so forth. It is not enough to have an excuse for your behaviour. When shit goes wrong people get hurt, you don't want to be able to go "yeah but they didn't safeword so I thought it was fine", you want shit not to go wrong. What that means is that you understand that you have a responsibility for the wellbeing of your partner, you need to understand the limitations of the system of consent and act beyond them to protect your partner. Everything you have said tonight about it not being your responsibility, about their actions during signalling consent, about having to explicitly rule things out, the overriding their wishes because you know better and the rest of it paints you as a predator. You have shown a fundamental failure to understand that consent is a tool designed to protect people, that the goal is not to do harm, not simply to cover your own ass. Your approach to sex is selfish and abusive, your approach to consent is to treat it like an obstacle, your approach to shit going wrong is "that's their issue", you are a predator.
You're making a lot of declarations about my approach to a lot of things because I guess you have some sense of superiority and you're setting me up to be someone to speak against just so you can reify your own personal moral compass. You've gone all over the board with this thing when my basis of conversation has been the passionate hookup with no intention of ever speaking to someone again. If the goal is to prevent harm and enhance enjoyment. I am in no wrong here.
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On August 08 2013 08:34 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:27 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:24 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 08:23 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
I would contend that me being called a "predator" and a "rapist" is more slut-shaming than me enjoying being a slut with someone else being a slut. What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. People absolutely are entitled to have consideration of their wishes taken into account before you do sex stuff to them, rather than simply thinking of "can I get way with it?" and "do I want to do it". Going "that's entitlement" doesn't explain why the thing is bad. The moral principles about consent within the kink scenes apply generally. If someone doesn't want something you don't do it. That simple. I think you have this propaganda image of me in your mind akin to the "greedy jew", rubbing my hands together, scheming, and going "mwhahahaha!". It's pretty offensive. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything. Your posts tell a different story. Maybe it's because of your perception that insists there's a universal law that says I have a different set of rules I must abide by that other people don't? I'm still not down with this idea that I have to assume that people are more willing to have a problem with me than enjoy me. Because statistically a lot of people do. You are not ignorant of this. It's unfair for you, that sucks, deal with it. The right of other people to informed consent outranks your "right" to fuck strangers the same way everyone else gets to.
That's your reality that places me in "other".
I reject it.
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:37 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:34 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:27 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:24 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 08:23 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:
[quote]
What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. People absolutely are entitled to have consideration of their wishes taken into account before you do sex stuff to them, rather than simply thinking of "can I get way with it?" and "do I want to do it". Going "that's entitlement" doesn't explain why the thing is bad. The moral principles about consent within the kink scenes apply generally. If someone doesn't want something you don't do it. That simple. I think you have this propaganda image of me in your mind akin to the "greedy jew", rubbing my hands together, scheming, and going "mwhahahaha!". It's pretty offensive. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything. Your posts tell a different story. Maybe it's because of your perception that insists there's a universal law that says I have a different set of rules I must abide by that other people don't? I'm still not down with this idea that I have to assume that people are more willing to have a problem with me than enjoy me. Because statistically a lot of people do. You are not ignorant of this. It's unfair for you, that sucks, deal with it. The right of other people to informed consent outranks your "right" to fuck strangers the same way everyone else gets to. That's your reality that places me in "other". I reject it.
No, it's everyone's reality that you're trans. You are trans, are you not?
And even if you do reject it, even if everyone but the partner rejects it because it's some made up delusion he has, his delusion still matters when it comes to his criteria for consent. Whether or not you reject it has no bearing on his right to consent based upon it. It's not up to you.
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:32 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:21 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:42 farvacola wrote:
[quote]
This is the definition of slut shaming.....particularly sinc you keep referencing clubs and places where alcohol and drugs are common. I would contend that me being called a "predator" and a "rapist" is more slut-shaming than me enjoying being a slut with someone else being a slut. What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. Isn't that the exact opposite of how the kink scene works? You have to constantly and especially aware of other people's feelings because you are even more responsible than usual. Come on, how do you not consider yourself a predator after typing that? Communicating limitations beforehand and using safewords is how I kink. If I'm in the "dominant" position and don't care about feeling like a glorified sex toy for a while, I'll agree to only doing what they say they want done without deviation. However, since that quickly leaves me feeling distant and inhuman, I don't do it very much. There's an awful lot of abuse within the scene where people tick the boxes and do whatever the fuck they like because it's damn near impossible to prosecute. Once you let someone tie you up the law pretty much assumes you've abdicated your body to them, even if you prenegotiated the scene. It's bullshit and it's really, really rapey and there is a moral obligation on whoever has the power to protect their partner. That means that if you're doing a no safeword scene (would not recommend) you do not venture outside prenegotiated acts, if they go incommunicative (so headspaced they are unable to utter the safeword) you safeword for them if in doubt, if they consent while headspaced but you have reason to doubt it you ignore it. Above all you protect your partner and yourself from harm. And they do the same, ensuring that you're not over your head, that you know what they want and so forth. It is not enough to have an excuse for your behaviour. When shit goes wrong people get hurt, you don't want to be able to go "yeah but they didn't safeword so I thought it was fine", you want shit not to go wrong. What that means is that you understand that you have a responsibility for the wellbeing of your partner, you need to understand the limitations of the system of consent and act beyond them to protect your partner. Everything you have said tonight about it not being your responsibility, about their actions during signalling consent, about having to explicitly rule things out, the overriding their wishes because you know better and the rest of it paints you as a predator. You have shown a fundamental failure to understand that consent is a tool designed to protect people, that the goal is not to do harm, not simply to cover your own ass. Your approach to sex is selfish and abusive, your approach to consent is to treat it like an obstacle, your approach to shit going wrong is "that's their issue", you are a predator. You're making a lot of declarations about my approach to a lot of things because I guess you have some sense of superiority and you're setting me up to be someone to speak against just so you can reify your own personal moral compass. You've gone all over the board with this thing when my basis of conversation has been the passionate hookup with no intention of ever speaking to someone again. If the goal is to prevent harm and enhance enjoyment. I am in no wrong here.
"they didn't know they wouldn't have consented to it so no harm was done"
Even if we ignore the possibility they'll find out, that's still not up to you and could just as easily be used to justify raping passed out drunk girls. But let's not ignore that possibility. Do you understand that you are doing harm to someone who fucks you if your status gets out and his friends are transphobic bullies? That he signed up for a night of fun with a cis girl and what he got was a lifetime of "you fucked a guy" jibes.
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On August 08 2013 08:40 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:37 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:34 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:27 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:24 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 08:23 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. People absolutely are entitled to have consideration of their wishes taken into account before you do sex stuff to them, rather than simply thinking of "can I get way with it?" and "do I want to do it". Going "that's entitlement" doesn't explain why the thing is bad. The moral principles about consent within the kink scenes apply generally. If someone doesn't want something you don't do it. That simple. I think you have this propaganda image of me in your mind akin to the "greedy jew", rubbing my hands together, scheming, and going "mwhahahaha!". It's pretty offensive. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything. Your posts tell a different story. Maybe it's because of your perception that insists there's a universal law that says I have a different set of rules I must abide by that other people don't? I'm still not down with this idea that I have to assume that people are more willing to have a problem with me than enjoy me. Because statistically a lot of people do. You are not ignorant of this. It's unfair for you, that sucks, deal with it. The right of other people to informed consent outranks your "right" to fuck strangers the same way everyone else gets to. That's your reality that places me in "other". I reject it. No, it's everyone's reality that you're trans. You are trans, are you not? And even if you do reject it, even if everyone but the partner rejects it because it's some made up delusion he has, his delusion still matters when it comes to his criteria for consent. Whether or not you reject it has no bearing on his right to consent based upon it. It's not up to you.
You're right, it's not up to me.
It's up to him.
To communicate it.
Just as it's up to me to communicate my hangups. I've stated previously in this thread that I find out if a potential partner is in advertising or marketing because it matters to me. Suffice to say, if I ended up having a sexual experience with someone involved in one of those fields and I enjoyed it. That's *my* fault for not declaring my limitations. It's not their fault for not declaring them. Bring up numbers again to back up why it's ok that I should be discriminated against.
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I have a question. Do trans people have a moral obligation to disclose their status in other situations? Say:
1) You're looking for a roommate, and are a postoperative transsexual. Do you have a moral obligation to disclose your status to hypothetical roommates?
2) You're a passing transsexual and you apply to a bartender job. Do you have a moral obligation to disclose your status to hypothetical employers and potentially customers if you were hired?
3) Another hypothetical. Suppose you've decided to become a webcam model, and you're post operative. Do you have a moral obligation to disclose your status prior to anyone viewing your webcam?
In all of these situations, as is implied, you have no reason to believe that these potential interactions involve transphobic or trans friendly individuals.
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:46 shinosai wrote:
I have a question. Do trans people have a moral obligation to disclose their status in other situations? Say:
1) You're looking for a roommate, and are a postoperative transsexual. Do you have a moral obligation to disclose your status to hypothetical roommates?
2) You're a passing transsexual and you apply to a bartender job. Do you have a moral obligation to disclose your status to hypothetical employers and potentially customers if you were hired?
3) Another hypothetical. Suppose you've decided to become a webcam model, and you're post operative. Do you have a moral obligation to disclose your status prior to anyone viewing your webcam?
In all of these situations, as is implied, you have no reason to believe that these potential interactions involve transphobic or trans friendly individuals.
I think not. I believe in the right to discriminate in any way you like regarding sexual consent because I believe consent is really fucking important for sex but discrimination elsewhere isn't acceptable.
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On August 08 2013 08:43 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:32 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:21 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 07:45 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
I would contend that me being called a "predator" and a "rapist" is more slut-shaming than me enjoying being a slut with someone else being a slut. What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. Isn't that the exact opposite of how the kink scene works? You have to constantly and especially aware of other people's feelings because you are even more responsible than usual. Come on, how do you not consider yourself a predator after typing that? Communicating limitations beforehand and using safewords is how I kink. If I'm in the "dominant" position and don't care about feeling like a glorified sex toy for a while, I'll agree to only doing what they say they want done without deviation. However, since that quickly leaves me feeling distant and inhuman, I don't do it very much. There's an awful lot of abuse within the scene where people tick the boxes and do whatever the fuck they like because it's damn near impossible to prosecute. Once you let someone tie you up the law pretty much assumes you've abdicated your body to them, even if you prenegotiated the scene. It's bullshit and it's really, really rapey and there is a moral obligation on whoever has the power to protect their partner. That means that if you're doing a no safeword scene (would not recommend) you do not venture outside prenegotiated acts, if they go incommunicative (so headspaced they are unable to utter the safeword) you safeword for them if in doubt, if they consent while headspaced but you have reason to doubt it you ignore it. Above all you protect your partner and yourself from harm. And they do the same, ensuring that you're not over your head, that you know what they want and so forth. It is not enough to have an excuse for your behaviour. When shit goes wrong people get hurt, you don't want to be able to go "yeah but they didn't safeword so I thought it was fine", you want shit not to go wrong. What that means is that you understand that you have a responsibility for the wellbeing of your partner, you need to understand the limitations of the system of consent and act beyond them to protect your partner. Everything you have said tonight about it not being your responsibility, about their actions during signalling consent, about having to explicitly rule things out, the overriding their wishes because you know better and the rest of it paints you as a predator. You have shown a fundamental failure to understand that consent is a tool designed to protect people, that the goal is not to do harm, not simply to cover your own ass. Your approach to sex is selfish and abusive, your approach to consent is to treat it like an obstacle, your approach to shit going wrong is "that's their issue", you are a predator. You're making a lot of declarations about my approach to a lot of things because I guess you have some sense of superiority and you're setting me up to be someone to speak against just so you can reify your own personal moral compass. You've gone all over the board with this thing when my basis of conversation has been the passionate hookup with no intention of ever speaking to someone again. If the goal is to prevent harm and enhance enjoyment. I am in no wrong here. "they didn't know they wouldn't have consented to it so no harm was done" Even if we ignore the possibility they'll find out, that's still not up to you and could just as easily be used to justify raping passed out drunk girls. But let's not ignore that possibility. Do you understand that you are doing harm to someone who fucks you if your status gets out and his friends are transphobic bullies? That he signed up for a night of fun with a cis girl and what he got was a lifetime of "you fucked a guy" jibes.
I'm not doing harm. His transphobic friend bullies are doing the harm.
STOP MAKING ME RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW OTHER PEOPLE FEEL AND ACT.
PLEASE.
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:46 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:40 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:37 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:34 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:27 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:24 maybenexttime wrote:On August 08 2013 08:23 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner.
You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. People absolutely are entitled to have consideration of their wishes taken into account before you do sex stuff to them, rather than simply thinking of "can I get way with it?" and "do I want to do it". Going "that's entitlement" doesn't explain why the thing is bad. The moral principles about consent within the kink scenes apply generally. If someone doesn't want something you don't do it. That simple. I think you have this propaganda image of me in your mind akin to the "greedy jew", rubbing my hands together, scheming, and going "mwhahahaha!". It's pretty offensive. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything. Your posts tell a different story. Maybe it's because of your perception that insists there's a universal law that says I have a different set of rules I must abide by that other people don't? I'm still not down with this idea that I have to assume that people are more willing to have a problem with me than enjoy me. Because statistically a lot of people do. You are not ignorant of this. It's unfair for you, that sucks, deal with it. The right of other people to informed consent outranks your "right" to fuck strangers the same way everyone else gets to. That's your reality that places me in "other". I reject it. No, it's everyone's reality that you're trans. You are trans, are you not? And even if you do reject it, even if everyone but the partner rejects it because it's some made up delusion he has, his delusion still matters when it comes to his criteria for consent. Whether or not you reject it has no bearing on his right to consent based upon it. It's not up to you. You're right, it's not up to me. It's up to him. To communicate it. Just as it's up to me to communicate my hangups. I've stated previously in this thread that I find out if a potential partner is in advertising or marketing because it matters to me. Suffice to say, if I ended up having a sexual experience with someone involved in one of those fields and I enjoyed it. That's *my* fault for not declaring my limitations. It's not their fault for not declaring them. Bring up numbers again to back up why it's ok that I should be discriminated against.
Same predator bullshit.
It doesn't matter whose fault it is. You should want to avoid it happening. You're going "yeah but I have an excuse for why I knowingly let it happen" and that is simply not good enough. Do you not get that someone who doesn't want to have sex with a trans person having sex with you is a bad result? Something which you should not want to happen? Are you familiar with empathy?
The numbers mean people can't reasonably protect their interests regarding this, you're too much of an outlier. But you can look out for them, and you should.
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:50 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:43 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:32 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:21 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:46 DoubleReed wrote:
[quote]
What? That makes no sense, and you know it makes no sense. Please make sense. It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. Isn't that the exact opposite of how the kink scene works? You have to constantly and especially aware of other people's feelings because you are even more responsible than usual. Come on, how do you not consider yourself a predator after typing that? Communicating limitations beforehand and using safewords is how I kink. If I'm in the "dominant" position and don't care about feeling like a glorified sex toy for a while, I'll agree to only doing what they say they want done without deviation. However, since that quickly leaves me feeling distant and inhuman, I don't do it very much. There's an awful lot of abuse within the scene where people tick the boxes and do whatever the fuck they like because it's damn near impossible to prosecute. Once you let someone tie you up the law pretty much assumes you've abdicated your body to them, even if you prenegotiated the scene. It's bullshit and it's really, really rapey and there is a moral obligation on whoever has the power to protect their partner. That means that if you're doing a no safeword scene (would not recommend) you do not venture outside prenegotiated acts, if they go incommunicative (so headspaced they are unable to utter the safeword) you safeword for them if in doubt, if they consent while headspaced but you have reason to doubt it you ignore it. Above all you protect your partner and yourself from harm. And they do the same, ensuring that you're not over your head, that you know what they want and so forth. It is not enough to have an excuse for your behaviour. When shit goes wrong people get hurt, you don't want to be able to go "yeah but they didn't safeword so I thought it was fine", you want shit not to go wrong. What that means is that you understand that you have a responsibility for the wellbeing of your partner, you need to understand the limitations of the system of consent and act beyond them to protect your partner. Everything you have said tonight about it not being your responsibility, about their actions during signalling consent, about having to explicitly rule things out, the overriding their wishes because you know better and the rest of it paints you as a predator. You have shown a fundamental failure to understand that consent is a tool designed to protect people, that the goal is not to do harm, not simply to cover your own ass. Your approach to sex is selfish and abusive, your approach to consent is to treat it like an obstacle, your approach to shit going wrong is "that's their issue", you are a predator. You're making a lot of declarations about my approach to a lot of things because I guess you have some sense of superiority and you're setting me up to be someone to speak against just so you can reify your own personal moral compass. You've gone all over the board with this thing when my basis of conversation has been the passionate hookup with no intention of ever speaking to someone again. If the goal is to prevent harm and enhance enjoyment. I am in no wrong here. "they didn't know they wouldn't have consented to it so no harm was done" Even if we ignore the possibility they'll find out, that's still not up to you and could just as easily be used to justify raping passed out drunk girls. But let's not ignore that possibility. Do you understand that you are doing harm to someone who fucks you if your status gets out and his friends are transphobic bullies? That he signed up for a night of fun with a cis girl and what he got was a lifetime of "you fucked a guy" jibes. I'm not doing harm. His transphobic friend bullies are doing the harm. STOP MAKING ME RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW OTHER PEOPLE FEEL AND ACT. PLEASE.
And yet you could have stopped it. You knew you were doing it. You knew it was possible. But you wanted to get laid and you had an excuse ready and according to your very limited moral principles that was all you needed. Fuck that guy.
It is not enough to have an excuse. You should want to protect your partner. You have the potential to do harm. You recognise that you have the potential to do harm. You should act accordingly.
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United States41958 Posts
Predators aren't predators because they don't have excuses for their behaviour and why it wasn't really their responsibility to make sure their partner was okay and so forth. Predators are predators because that's all they have, while the other person got hurt.
You are a predator.
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On August 08 2013 08:51 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:50 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:43 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:32 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:21 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 07:48 RaspberrySC2 wrote:
[quote]
It makes sense because all I do is enjoy my sexuality by the same standards and practices reasonably assumable as everyone else, but I'm in the wrong for doing so. No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner. You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. Isn't that the exact opposite of how the kink scene works? You have to constantly and especially aware of other people's feelings because you are even more responsible than usual. Come on, how do you not consider yourself a predator after typing that? Communicating limitations beforehand and using safewords is how I kink. If I'm in the "dominant" position and don't care about feeling like a glorified sex toy for a while, I'll agree to only doing what they say they want done without deviation. However, since that quickly leaves me feeling distant and inhuman, I don't do it very much. There's an awful lot of abuse within the scene where people tick the boxes and do whatever the fuck they like because it's damn near impossible to prosecute. Once you let someone tie you up the law pretty much assumes you've abdicated your body to them, even if you prenegotiated the scene. It's bullshit and it's really, really rapey and there is a moral obligation on whoever has the power to protect their partner. That means that if you're doing a no safeword scene (would not recommend) you do not venture outside prenegotiated acts, if they go incommunicative (so headspaced they are unable to utter the safeword) you safeword for them if in doubt, if they consent while headspaced but you have reason to doubt it you ignore it. Above all you protect your partner and yourself from harm. And they do the same, ensuring that you're not over your head, that you know what they want and so forth. It is not enough to have an excuse for your behaviour. When shit goes wrong people get hurt, you don't want to be able to go "yeah but they didn't safeword so I thought it was fine", you want shit not to go wrong. What that means is that you understand that you have a responsibility for the wellbeing of your partner, you need to understand the limitations of the system of consent and act beyond them to protect your partner. Everything you have said tonight about it not being your responsibility, about their actions during signalling consent, about having to explicitly rule things out, the overriding their wishes because you know better and the rest of it paints you as a predator. You have shown a fundamental failure to understand that consent is a tool designed to protect people, that the goal is not to do harm, not simply to cover your own ass. Your approach to sex is selfish and abusive, your approach to consent is to treat it like an obstacle, your approach to shit going wrong is "that's their issue", you are a predator. You're making a lot of declarations about my approach to a lot of things because I guess you have some sense of superiority and you're setting me up to be someone to speak against just so you can reify your own personal moral compass. You've gone all over the board with this thing when my basis of conversation has been the passionate hookup with no intention of ever speaking to someone again. If the goal is to prevent harm and enhance enjoyment. I am in no wrong here. "they didn't know they wouldn't have consented to it so no harm was done" Even if we ignore the possibility they'll find out, that's still not up to you and could just as easily be used to justify raping passed out drunk girls. But let's not ignore that possibility. Do you understand that you are doing harm to someone who fucks you if your status gets out and his friends are transphobic bullies? That he signed up for a night of fun with a cis girl and what he got was a lifetime of "you fucked a guy" jibes. I'm not doing harm. His transphobic friend bullies are doing the harm. STOP MAKING ME RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW OTHER PEOPLE FEEL AND ACT. PLEASE. And yet you could have stopped it. You knew you were doing it. You knew it was possible. But you wanted to get laid and you had an excuse ready and according to your very limited moral principles that was all you needed. Fuck that guy. It is not enough to have an excuse. You should want to protect your partner. You have the potential to do harm. You recognise that you have the potential to do harm. You should act accordingly.
No. I am not inherently harmful or dangerous. How all of you interpret me is.
Look. When I'm hooking up with someone, I'm not stressing over "but what if his friends 'find out' about me?"
That is not my responsibility or obligation to go *that deep* into considering someone else's life situation. It is neither my fault or my problem or my issue how someone's friend's or family's bigotries play into the scheme. Are you serious with this?
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On August 08 2013 08:54 KwarK wrote:
Predators aren't predators because they don't have excuses for their behaviour and why it wasn't really their responsibility to make sure their partner was okay and so forth. Predators are predators because that's all they have, while the other person got hurt.
You are a predator.
Anybody can get hurt from any positive experience they enjoyed.
You like being cold with the facts. Ask any diabetic how much they liked sugar foods.
The similarity was that it was their choice and their responsibility.
The difference is there are no physical repercussions from having sex with a transsexual without further outside conditions enforcing them.
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Hey RaspberrySC2, what if your partner rejects you simply because you were born ugly, or not well endowed, or in a poor financial situation, or a billion other reasons that people base their consent on arbitrarily, many of which have nothing to do with sexuality? Even if their rationality is flawed and prejudiced, it's still their right to consent and your responsibility to adhere to it, this applies regardless of what their rationality is. If you can not convince them in a moral manner through communication then you have to disengage.
It sucks to have limited choices and to not be able to be fulfilled or reaffirmed, but that's the reality of the situation in any social relationship.
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you guys define consent differently
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On August 08 2013 08:54 KwarK wrote:
Predators aren't predators because they don't have excuses for their behaviour and why it wasn't really their responsibility to make sure their partner was okay and so forth. Predators are predators because that's all they have, while the other person got hurt.
You are a predator.
Victims are victims because they choose not to take responsibility for themselves. That's easy.
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 08:56 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:51 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:50 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:43 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:36 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:32 KwarK wrote:On August 08 2013 08:21 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 08:17 DoubleReed wrote:On August 08 2013 08:14 RaspberrySC2 wrote:On August 08 2013 07:53 KwarK wrote:
[quote]
No. The standard I hold you to is universal. It's a standard I have built from fetish scenes in which predators are pretty common and do an awful lot of very rapey stuff. If you suspect the other person doesn't want you to do X then you check. If they're really headspaced and you have reason to doubt their answer then you ignore their yes and stop the scene anyway. You protect your partner.
You are in the wrong for doing it because you are acting like being trans isn't a big deal when to a lot of people it is. Those people still have rights. You can want to be cis all you want but you are not and never will be and for those people, that is an issue. You are in the wrong for having a predatory approach to those people. You lost the birth lottery, you were born trans and that sucks for you but that does not give you the right to go "if I wasn't trans this behaviour would be fine therefore it's fine". Those people have rights and you need to understand that and respect them. The kink scene is not the same as a vanilla hook up and I'm pretty sure you know this. "Those people" have the right to tell me they don't want to have sex with someone they consider to be transsexual. They have the right to speak up. They do not have the right to make me responsible for their feelings. That's called entitlement. Isn't that the exact opposite of how the kink scene works? You have to constantly and especially aware of other people's feelings because you are even more responsible than usual. Come on, how do you not consider yourself a predator after typing that? Communicating limitations beforehand and using safewords is how I kink. If I'm in the "dominant" position and don't care about feeling like a glorified sex toy for a while, I'll agree to only doing what they say they want done without deviation. However, since that quickly leaves me feeling distant and inhuman, I don't do it very much. There's an awful lot of abuse within the scene where people tick the boxes and do whatever the fuck they like because it's damn near impossible to prosecute. Once you let someone tie you up the law pretty much assumes you've abdicated your body to them, even if you prenegotiated the scene. It's bullshit and it's really, really rapey and there is a moral obligation on whoever has the power to protect their partner. That means that if you're doing a no safeword scene (would not recommend) you do not venture outside prenegotiated acts, if they go incommunicative (so headspaced they are unable to utter the safeword) you safeword for them if in doubt, if they consent while headspaced but you have reason to doubt it you ignore it. Above all you protect your partner and yourself from harm. And they do the same, ensuring that you're not over your head, that you know what they want and so forth. It is not enough to have an excuse for your behaviour. When shit goes wrong people get hurt, you don't want to be able to go "yeah but they didn't safeword so I thought it was fine", you want shit not to go wrong. What that means is that you understand that you have a responsibility for the wellbeing of your partner, you need to understand the limitations of the system of consent and act beyond them to protect your partner. Everything you have said tonight about it not being your responsibility, about their actions during signalling consent, about having to explicitly rule things out, the overriding their wishes because you know better and the rest of it paints you as a predator. You have shown a fundamental failure to understand that consent is a tool designed to protect people, that the goal is not to do harm, not simply to cover your own ass. Your approach to sex is selfish and abusive, your approach to consent is to treat it like an obstacle, your approach to shit going wrong is "that's their issue", you are a predator. You're making a lot of declarations about my approach to a lot of things because I guess you have some sense of superiority and you're setting me up to be someone to speak against just so you can reify your own personal moral compass. You've gone all over the board with this thing when my basis of conversation has been the passionate hookup with no intention of ever speaking to someone again. If the goal is to prevent harm and enhance enjoyment. I am in no wrong here. "they didn't know they wouldn't have consented to it so no harm was done" Even if we ignore the possibility they'll find out, that's still not up to you and could just as easily be used to justify raping passed out drunk girls. But let's not ignore that possibility. Do you understand that you are doing harm to someone who fucks you if your status gets out and his friends are transphobic bullies? That he signed up for a night of fun with a cis girl and what he got was a lifetime of "you fucked a guy" jibes. I'm not doing harm. His transphobic friend bullies are doing the harm. STOP MAKING ME RESPONSIBLE FOR HOW OTHER PEOPLE FEEL AND ACT. PLEASE. And yet you could have stopped it. You knew you were doing it. You knew it was possible. But you wanted to get laid and you had an excuse ready and according to your very limited moral principles that was all you needed. Fuck that guy. It is not enough to have an excuse. You should want to protect your partner. You have the potential to do harm. You recognise that you have the potential to do harm. You should act accordingly. No. I am not inherently harmful or dangerous. How all of you interpret me is. Look. When I'm hooking up with someone, I'm not stressing over "but what if his friends 'find out' about me?" That is not my responsibility or obligation to go *that deep* into considering someone else's life situation. It is neither my fault or my problem or my issue how someone's friend's or family's bigotries play into the scheme. Are you serious with this?
I am deadly serious. When I'm Domming I don't think "it's not my responsibility to look after them" because I want to make sure they don't get hurt because I have empathy and view them having a negative outcome as something to avoid. You are aware of your trans status, you are aware that for an awful lot of people it is an issue, you don't have that luxury. You do not have a right to sex with strangers, nobody does, what people do have a right to is informed consent. You are presenting this as you being simply incapable of consideration of others during sex. If you really are completely incapable of it, stop fucking people. Your right to sex does not outrank their right to consent, if you can't play safe, don't play at all.
"I just didn't think about that while caught up in the moment"... Are you attempting for some kind of predator cliche record here?
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United States41958 Posts
On August 08 2013 09:01 RaspberrySC2 wrote:Show nested quote +On August 08 2013 08:54 KwarK wrote:
Predators aren't predators because they don't have excuses for their behaviour and why it wasn't really their responsibility to make sure their partner was okay and so forth. Predators are predators because that's all they have, while the other person got hurt.
You are a predator. Victims are victims because they choose not to take responsibility for themselves. That's easy.
So again, fuck those guys, they were irresponsible, who cares if they got hurt and I could have stopped it and didn't.
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EPT
