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m4inbrain
1505 Posts
On March 01 2013 20:12 oneofthem wrote: oh you misunderstand me, i am just expressing admiration for a superior culture. Not sure if you're trolling me, should go to sleep as well.  | ||
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Blargh
United States2101 Posts
Here, I can settle pbj and introvert's argument easily with this. Compromise. You see, our whole society will ONLY ever work if we compromise. This is how humanity has (somehow) managed to survive up until this point. You will never be able to have everything you want, ever, because you will need to compromise, but at least you'll be able to have more than if you didn't compromise. No one will get what they want if no one compromised. Now, gay people might not be able to do their little marriage ceremony in a religious church, but hey, they can still get all of the same legal rights! (Note: many gay couples cannot even do this in the US) If you give a shit about equality, go try and fix genetic inequality. That makes far more of a difference than any sexual preference (oh shit, someone mind bring up whether or not genetics influence sexual orientation! hurrdurrrrrrrr!1!) Why don't you two make a compromise so that the actual discussion can proceed (or whatever there is of one lolx)? And to answer your question in your edit pbj, I'm fairly certain he doesn't support gay marriage because it goes against what the church believes and that the whole marriage process is pretty much meant specifically for M+F. He's an introvert, he cannot socialize normally with people. Leave him be. Lastly... @ oneofthem Safe yourself the effort of herpderping at every single person. You aren't adding anything to the (already mediocre) discussion by quoting someone then saying a sentence. Sorry to ruin the fun for you. | ||
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MtlGuitarist97
United States1539 Posts
Second, they're just as human as you or I. Why should they not get the basic liberties and rights we get? Even if you disagree with what they're doing, everyone should have the same basic liberties and rights. I can't even fathom why people claim that gay marriage is so terrible, unjust, and immoral. I have never heard a rational explanation for why it's so "bad" and most of the people that insult it just dodge the question over and over again like Introvert here. The constitution originally said that only white people were made equally, but is that true? Obviously not, otherwise we'd still have slaves and we wouldn't have an African-American president. I hope to live in a country where people can have the same basic freedoms regardless of what they practice or believe, the same fundamental principle this country was founded on. | ||
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birchman
Sweden393 Posts
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kafkaesque
Germany2006 Posts
He now has irreversibly lost the support of rednecks and republicans anyways, so he might as well employ sense without fear of ramifications. | ||
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zeo
Serbia6266 Posts
On March 01 2013 20:21 birchman wrote: This is great to hear from Obama, he's such a fine president. While the automatic spending cuts will hit defense the hardest, the Department of Education will also suffer a crippling blow to its budget. Education Secretary Arne Duncan on Wednesday noted that the sequester could cost 40,000 jobs in education nationwide. 70,000 kids who rely on the Head Start pre-school program will have to go without, while another 30,000 children will no longer be able to receive child care assistance. About 10,000 teachers could be laid off, and “2,100 fewer food inspections could occur,” Duncan said during a White House press briefing. Government employees and contractors and members of the military will all take significant hits. Protections for clean air and clean water will lose funding. The government won’t have the money to clean up 1,000 gallons of radioactive nuclear waste. The Army and Air Force will face massive cuts. Some 600,000 women and their children will no longer have access to food aid, due to cuts to the Women, Infants and Children program. With food inspectors facing slashed budgets, meat and poultry factories will be forced to close their doors - resulting in higher prices in grocery stores and an estimated $400 million in lost wages. “It’s a lot like a slow-motion train wreck,” Yes, Obama should totally focus all his efforts on gay marriage. Its not like 1000 gallons of toxic waste is leaking into Washington every year | ||
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HataZStriker
United States72 Posts
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Evangelist
1246 Posts
On March 01 2013 18:49 jalstar wrote: In California the difference between a civil union and a marriage is the word used. It's not discrimination to give people the same rights but call it a different word. If I choose to marry a woman, it is a marriage. If I choose to marry a man, it is a civil union. Explain to me exactly why these should be different. | ||
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oneofthem
Cayman Islands24199 Posts
On March 01 2013 20:15 Blargh wrote: Zzzzzzz. Here, I can settle pbj and introvert's argument easily with this. Compromise. You see, our whole society will ONLY ever work if we compromise. This is how humanity has (somehow) managed to survive up until this point. You will never be able to have everything you want, ever, because you will need to compromise, but at least you'll be able to have more than if you didn't compromise. No one will get what they want if no one compromised. Now, gay people might not be able to do their little marriage ceremony in a religious church, but hey, they can still get all of the same legal rights! (Note: many gay couples cannot even do this in the US) If you give a shit about equality, go try and fix genetic inequality. That makes far more of a difference than any sexual preference (oh shit, someone mind bring up whether or not genetics influence sexual orientation! hurrdurrrrrrrr!1!) Why don't you two make a compromise so that the actual discussion can proceed (or whatever there is of one lolx)? And to answer your question in your edit pbj, I'm fairly certain he doesn't support gay marriage because it goes against what the church believes and that the whole marriage process is pretty much meant specifically for M+F. He's an introvert, he cannot socialize normally with people. Leave him be. Lastly... @ oneofthem Safe yourself the effort of herpderping at every single person. You aren't adding anything to the (already mediocre) discussion by quoting someone then saying a sentence. Sorry to ruin the fun for you. tell that to yourself. 1. you don't have to compromise to get what you want, as long as the other guy gives in. driving a hard and credible bargain is the way to get what you want in a negotiation. 2. compromises can happen without wishing or planning or working for one. depending on your political institution, the stronger side can get as much "compromise" as it can make that compromise pass through the teeth of the other. so, a seeming compromise in outcome does not need any party having a midway solution as their objective. given the correct political structure, two guys that want to murder each other can 'compromise' by killing each other as fast as they could manage. the status quo is such that constant action and activism is needed to turn the tide and educate the public about their flawed but attractive moral impulses. this is not a situation that calls for compromise, it calls for clarity and getting your message through undistracted by sugar coating. so yea, your wisdom is pretty generic and misguided. | ||
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xwoGworwaTsx
United States984 Posts
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esluzuriaga
Ecuador1 Post
On March 01 2013 21:08 Evangelist wrote: If I choose to marry a woman, it is a marriage. If I choose to marry a man, it is a civil union. Explain to me exactly why these should be different. If I choose to get married it should be called marriage, explain to me why they should be different. Marriage was not invented by the bible nor should it be defined by it. If you don't want gay marriage don't marry another man, simple as that. | ||
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thezanursic
5478 Posts
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monx
Canada1400 Posts
oh well i am not surprised anyway, as a president he had no other choice. | ||
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SayGen
United States1209 Posts
Said he didn't support Gay marriage now he does. What happened to a president that sticks to his guns, not a flip floper. O well- at least he is gone in 4 years and we will replace him with another liar. | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On March 02 2013 06:00 SayGen wrote: Yet another Obama lie. Said he didn't support Gay marriage now he does. What happened to a president that sticks to his guns, not a flip floper. O well- at least he is gone in 4 years and we will replace him with another liar. Well there's lies and then there's lies. If you would've talked to me five or six years ago I would've told you that I was against gay marriage. I'm not anymore. People change. They grow up, mature, or they adopt new philosophies or outlooks. Or simply put they're politicians who want to win elections and know that they can't tell the public how they really feel about certain issues without losing votes. We don't have any way of knowing if Obama lied about his feelings on this subject or if he legitimately had a change of heart but he's always been friendly with the gay community so it's not like this is that big of a stretch. | ||
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TheFear
United States55 Posts
On March 01 2013 20:20 MtlGuitarist97 wrote: I will never understand what is "bad" about gay marriage. First of all, if you're Catholic or even any Protestant form of Christianity, in the Bible Jesus tells you to love your neighbor and to treat him as Jesus would. It might say that two homosexuals having sex is bad, but it doesn't tell you to go around bashing them and hating them. Second, they're just as human as you or I. Why should they not get the basic liberties and rights we get? Even if you disagree with what they're doing, everyone should have the same basic liberties and rights. I can't even fathom why people claim that gay marriage is so terrible, unjust, and immoral. I have never heard a rational explanation for why it's so "bad" and most of the people that insult it just dodge the question over and over again like Introvert here. The constitution originally said that only white people were made equally, but is that true? Obviously not, otherwise we'd still have slaves and we wouldn't have an African-American president. I hope to live in a country where people can have the same basic freedoms regardless of what they practice or believe, the same fundamental principle this country was founded on. I wouldn't advocate bashing or hating a gay person, in fact I have a couple of friends and acquaintances who happen to choose that lifestyle, and I am a Christian. However, if you're looking to understand a Christian POV on the institution of marriage, it is something that based on scripture is clearly defined to be one man and one woman. Scripture reference from Genesis 2:21-24 (NKJV): 21 And the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall on Adam, and he slept; and He took one of his ribs, and closed up the flesh in its place. 22 Then the rib which the Lord God had taken from man He made into a woman, and He brought her to the man. 23 And Adam said: “This is now bone of my bones And flesh of my flesh; She shall be called Woman, Because she was taken out of Man.” 24 Therefore a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and they shall become one flesh. There are more references that specify gender, but this text is one of the references towards marriage and makes a very clear distinction. Without question it means that a man is to leave his father/mother and to be joined with a wife. There are also many references that are indicative in scripture that homosexuality is sinful. Everyone of course has their free will to make their decisions on whether or not to abstain from sin or even honor the commands of God in His word. Nobody is forcing these decisions down your throat, but remember everyone has to deal with the consequences of all the decisions they make or don't make. Someone who is struggling with the sin of homosexuality in my mind is no different from me struggling with my struggles related to pornographic addiction. Everyone has their own strengths and weaknesses, and everyone has their own morals and conscience that should help guide them in their decision making. Not everyone submits or even acknowledges God's existence. I understand all that, but this is where Christians are coming from. Christians who are in tune with scripture would not be overly critical of homosexuals in particular, and they wouldn't claim themselves to be any better than non-Christians. Anyone who calls themselves a Christian and portrays this attitude of self-righteousness instead of mercy, grace, and empathy when dealing with sensitive issues is clearly not living up to the standards they profess to hold dear. Keep in mind that simply because one person or group of people within a specific religion or sub-section of society does something wrong, it shouldn't reflect poorly across the entirety of that group of people. There are many Christians that fall short and sin just like any other human being in history (outside of Jesus Christ from a believer stand-point who was perfect.) Just because a famous televangelist gets caught in a scandal, or in the case of the Catholic church they get entangled with a molestation issue, it doesn't mean that Christianity in a broader sense should be looked down upon for it. These things are conflicting with the very scriptures of the Bible, and to make an over-generalization and apply it broadly to all believers being hypocritical or not walking the walk is completely inaccurate at best. I always tell my friends fwiw that I don't compromise my true beliefs to suit their perception of me, nor do I want anyone to water down what they hold dear to please me either. I don't force Christianity down anybodies throat, if they ask me about it I will answer questions. If they want to learn more, I refer them to my website where I write faith based articles. To me the majority of what is done and not spoken is the example that people really pay attention to because your actions speak louder than words for the most part. I have several issues that I would hold against Catholicism alone in light of scripture that traditions/teachings seem to contradict in some cases. That is why I consider myself a non-denominational Christian and attempt to live based off what I read in the Bible myself. Anyhow, it seems I have gone on a slight tangent but I personally would not support any vote that trivializes God's definition of marriage between one man and one woman. I don't need to look any further than scriptures to figure that out for myself. I respect the legal decisions within the framework of our country, and fwiw I also think that gay couples should have equal benefits as citizens of the United States with any other couples. To put it all under the same umbrella of marriage to me is where I draw the line, but I understand that in many states this is a contentious issue. Additionally, it's not just about homosexual marriage specifically, I would also apply the lense of scripture and my personal values in not supporting pro-choice candidates or initiatives that would make abortion more easily accessible. Based on my studies of the Bible, which I look to as a moral authority and try to obey, it seems crystal clear that it is just plain wrong. There are many options available to women who are in a dilemma and cannot support a child. One of those options is adoption, and if there are people on waiting lists to care for children that aren't there own that makes it perhaps even more appalling that we resort to terminating pregnancies. Abortion to me is murder plain and simple, that's a common Christian point of view and I know that it is another hot topic debate today but it is one very important one for us. God bless, - Victor N. | ||
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farvacola
United States18818 Posts
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dAPhREAk
Nauru12397 Posts
On March 02 2013 06:05 overt wrote: Well there's lies and then there's lies. If you would've talked to me five or six years ago I would've told you that I was against gay marriage. I'm not anymore. People change. They grow up, mature, or they adopt new philosophies or outlooks. Or simply put they're politicians who want to win elections and know that they can't tell the public how they really feel about certain issues without losing votes. We don't have any way of knowing if Obama lied about his feelings on this subject or if he legitimately had a change of heart but he's always been friendly with the gay community so it's not like this is that big of a stretch. not sure if he is "lying" now and just pandering to the LGBT community. obama has consistently shown himself to be a flip-flopper similar to most politicians. | ||
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Fake)Plants
United States373 Posts
On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote: TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. | ||
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TheFear
United States55 Posts
On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote: TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I just said I am a non-denominational Christian in the bottom of the text. In terms of the Old Testament in it's entirety it should definitely be considered within the context of that era and the historical account of what was happening. A lot of people refer to things like the stoning of women or slavery to be some sort of call-out against the validity of the Bible as a moral guide. Simply because the Bible mentions these things in the context of a story, does not mean it condones the actions that were being taken. Some of what the Bible explains is said in a more direct fashion, other things are to be considered in context, and the Bible in general should always be considered in a holistic sense and not just picking the one verse that seems to back up what you're saying and ignoring the other relevant aspects of study. With respect to the stoning of women, there is a very clear instance in the New Testament where Jesus defends a prostitute from being stoned. How can people use that as some sort of detriment to the Bible, when the focal point of all the gospels (the son of God) is clearly not an advocate of it. As a matter of fact, he told people (and I am paraphrasing): "Let he who is without sin (aka: nobody) cast the first stone." Here is the story in it's entirety based on the Bible in John 8:2-11 (NKJV): 2 Now early[a] in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught[b] in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded[c] us that such should be stoned.[d] But what do You say?”[e] 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.[f] 7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up[g] and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[h] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[i] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[j] Has no one condemned you?” 11 She said, “No one, Lord.” And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and[k] sin no more.” Does this sound like a book that advocates the stoning of women? It doesn't to me, it's the exact opposite. Yet people insist on ignoring the holistic view of scripture and just focus with a skeptical perspective on the parts that suit their agenda. - Victor N. | ||
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