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On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious.
Though I do not agree with him and am not at all religious I feel I must point out that the New Testament doesn't like homosexuality either. Paul was kind of a dick and wrote lots of stuff that's not so nice to women or gay people.
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On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana.
After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks.
- Victor N.
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On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N.
Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much?
BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws.
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On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws.
i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance.
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On March 02 2013 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance.
It's interesting you'd take this stance. Personally I find you to be the one who need to show some tolerance of his obvious irritation and anger, and instead focus on what he's getting at with his message. Then maybe you'd be able to get through to them.
+ Show Spoiler +Lol, this shit is getting to meta. 
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On March 02 2013 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance.
Coming from what I've seen in your posts I say the same to you, Pot calling kettle Black  Not to mention his tone about someone daring to talk bad about his religion! I was forced to endure this shit all my life, constantly having to go to confession and reading the bible and bible camps and I can 100% tell you, they will never learn tolerance, we will have to force them too with laws.
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On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws.
Modern day Christian living changed simply because of the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, that's the only reason I used the term "modern". God's character and His commands to us are valid today as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago. I haven't claimed to hate anybody, like I was discussing in my first post you're trying to label me in light of what other Christians may or may have not said. I am my own individual person and I don't fit into a perfect cube that we can call "Hateful Christians". Christians aren't called to hate others, they're called to love. Just like anyone else some of them, including myself, fall short. That's what being human is about, making mistakes and learning from them + making proper adjustments based on those lessons. I haven't labeled someone evil or satanic for being a homosexual, the Bible condemns the action as being a sin just like it does alcoholism, adultery, and lies.
With all due respect you are the one calling my beliefs hateful and my religion pathetic. I was trying to point out something that I think was an uninvited stab at my position. The only reason I was sharing it to begin with is because another user expressed interest in understanding the Christian view as far as I could tell, and I wanted to try to bring light since I noticed a couple of misconceptions I noticed ITT. I didn't come here with any intent to disrespect anyone, unfortunately it doesn't appear that you've taken that same standpoint. Do me a favor and stop putting words in my mouth, one Christian having behaved questionably at one point and offended someone doesn't mean I or all other Christians fit the same label/assumption. I am done posting in this thread for the sake of not derailing the topic at hand. I don't want to stray too far away and it appears that is the direction this is headed. If anyone wants to have a private discussion about these matters you can feel free to consult me via PM, otherwise take it easy.
- Victor N.
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marriage is first and foremost a civil union, not a religious one. how hard is this to understand?
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On March 02 2013 06:40 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance. Coming from what I've seen in your posts I say the same to you, Pot calling kettle Black Not to mention his tone about someone daring to talk bad about his religion! I was forced to endure this shit all my life, constantly having to go to confession and reading the bible and bible camps and I can 100% tell you, they will never learn tolerance, we will have to force them too with laws.
i am curious what post(s) you are referring to where i did not present my opinion in a tolerant matter.
i could give two shits if you hate religion/religious people--thats your prerogative. but why do you have to do it like an ass? i grew up religious too but still have high respect for religions and religious people in general despite the fact that i dont believe a thing they say. i also dont share your opinion that "they" are unwilling to change their beliefs despite religious doctrine.
On March 02 2013 06:40 Uncultured wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance. It's interesting you'd take this stance. Personally I find you to be the one who need to show some tolerance of his obvious irritation and anger, and instead focus on what he's getting at with his message. Then maybe you'd be able to get through to them. + Show Spoiler +Lol, this shit is getting to meta.
tolerate the intolerance. interesting thought.
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On March 02 2013 06:40 TheFear wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. Modern day Christian living changed simply because of the sacrifice Jesus made on the cross, that's the only reason I used the term "modern". God's character and His commands to us are valid today as they were hundreds or thousands of years ago. I haven't claimed to hate anybody, like I was discussing in my first post you're trying to label me in light of what other Christians may or may have not said. I am my own individual person and I don't fit into a perfect cube that we can call "Hateful Christians". Christians aren't called to hate others, they're called to love. Just like anyone else some of them, including myself, fall short. That's what being human is about, making mistakes and learning from them + making proper adjustments based on those lessons. I haven't labeled someone evil or satanic for being a homosexual, the Bible condemns the action as being a sin just like it does alcoholism, adultery, and lies. With all due respect you are the one calling my beliefs hateful and my religion pathetic. I was trying to point out something that I think was an uninvited stab at my position. The only reason I was sharing it to begin with is because another user expressed interest in understanding the Christian view as far as I could tell, and I wanted to try to bring light since I noticed a couple of misconceptions I noticed ITT. I didn't come here with any intent to disrespect anyone, unfortunately it doesn't appear that you've taken that same standpoint. Do me a favor and stop putting words in my mouth, one Christian having behaved questionably at one point and offended someone doesn't mean I or all other Christians fit the same label/assumption. I am done posting in this thread for the sake of not derailing the topic at hand. I don't want to stray too far away and it appears that is the direction this is headed. If anyone wants to have a private discussion about these matters you can feel free to consult me via PM, otherwise take it easy. - Victor N.
Your own post states that he doesn't understand and no you weren't "trying to teach him something about your religion":
I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks.
Nice try saying Im putting words in your mouth considering they came out by your own choice.
And yes, your religion is a plague, you may not "say" these things personally, but I bet you have listened in on a sermon that may not say word for word what I said, but the general message is the same. If you're so "human" and you take into account things that you have done wrong and attempt to fix them, then start with your religion and it's message of hateful tolerance.
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On March 01 2013 22:50 oneofthem wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 20:15 Blargh wrote:
Zzzzzzz.
Here, I can settle pbj and introvert's argument easily with this. Compromise. You see, our whole society will ONLY ever work if we compromise. This is how humanity has (somehow) managed to survive up until this point. You will never be able to have everything you want, ever, because you will need to compromise, but at least you'll be able to have more than if you didn't compromise. No one will get what they want if no one compromised.
Now, gay people might not be able to do their little marriage ceremony in a religious church, but hey, they can still get all of the same legal rights! (Note: many gay couples cannot even do this in the US)
If you give a shit about equality, go try and fix genetic inequality. That makes far more of a difference than any sexual preference (oh shit, someone mind bring up whether or not genetics influence sexual orientation! hurrdurrrrrrrr!1!)
Why don't you two make a compromise so that the actual discussion can proceed (or whatever there is of one lolx)?
And to answer your question in your edit pbj, I'm fairly certain he doesn't support gay marriage because it goes against what the church believes and that the whole marriage process is pretty much meant specifically for M+F. He's an introvert, he cannot socialize normally with people. Leave him be.
Lastly... @ oneofthem
Safe yourself the effort of herpderping at every single person. You aren't adding anything to the (already mediocre) discussion by quoting someone then saying a sentence. Sorry to ruin the fun for you. tell that to yourself. 1. you don't have to compromise to get what you want, as long as the other guy gives in. driving a hard and credible bargain is the way to get what you want in a negotiation. 2. compromises can happen without wishing or planning or working for one. depending on your political institution, the stronger side can get as much "compromise" as it can make that compromise pass through the teeth of the other. so, a seeming compromise in outcome does not need any party having a midway solution as their objective. given the correct political structure, two guys that want to murder each other can 'compromise' by killing each other as fast as they could manage. the status quo is such that constant action and activism is needed to turn the tide and educate the public about their flawed but attractive moral impulses. this is not a situation that calls for compromise, it calls for clarity and getting your message through undistracted by sugar coating. so yea, your wisdom is pretty generic and misguided.
At least you exerted the effort to make an actual post.
I definitely believe it's a huge issue that gay couples cannot receive a civil union in every state, but that's not what we're arguing over. If you're arguing over that, then I would agree with you.
You interpreted compromise in a rather silly manner. The scenario we are talking about here is that gays want to be able to have a religious marriage. The government made a compromise by not "invading" religion and then offering a civil union. But, both parties are dissatisfied with what they got. BUT YOU NEVER GET EVERYTHING YOU WANT. In order to have a progressive society where we all coexist, we must make a compromise. When two individuals want two different actions that conflict each other, then they must make a compromise. Obviously one side can just say "But I want ALL of the cake, not just half." but then you won't ever get anything done (that's not a compromise, now is it?). In this particular scenario, gay people want to be able to have a religious marriage. Religious people don't want to give it to them. Government offers something which provides every legal benefit but isn't bound by God. Gays are not satisfied. You know what? That's just tough fucking shit man. You get something so very close to "equal" yet still complain? That's just bullshit. If someone cuts the cake and it just so happens that someone got 5% more cake, I'm not going to go say "Hey! That's not fair!"
The difference between a marriage and a civil union is so incredibly small that it's negligible. You won't ever get perfect equality. If you honestly believe that being able to get a official religious marriage as a gay couple instead of just getting a civil union is more important than ALL of the other inequalities out there, then you're just an idiot. Instead of wasting EVERYONE'S TIME AND MONEY AND EFFORT over STUPID-ASS shit, how about they just settle for a civil union? The state government (not all do, which I believe is absolutely retarded by the way) offers a service that provides every legal benefit specifically FOR gay people.
Think of it like an optimization problem. If you want to maximize the area of a square (or rectangle), you want to get as large of a length and height as possible. So, let's pretend that the LENGTH is 'Christians Getting What They Want' and WIDTH is 'Homosexuals Getting What They Want'. Now, obviously, you will not get the greatest area (amount of what people want, in this scenario) by having the width be 95 and the height be 5 [area = 475]. You would get a significantly better "area" if you had the width be 50 and the height be 50 [area = 2500]. The gays aren't getting ALL that they want, but they are getting almost all. In this case, the length (Christians) is probably 55 and the width (Gays) is probably 45. They didn't get all that they wanted, but that's just a compromise they will have to make, at least for the time being.
I do appreciate your attempt, though.
TL;DR
If you're gay, you should always have access to a civil union. If you're a church, you should not be forced to wed a gay couple because that goes against what you believe, and since we're talking about religion here, we just let that shit go.
BUT there is some serious retardation going down if gay couples are still upset over not being able to receive an official religious marriage even with CU's in place. These people need to grow up.
Honestly, this whole entire thread should just be closed because every one of these threads with any relevance whatsoever to gay marriage turns to the EXACT same thing. Someone, go make a super-thread for gay marriage so these half-related conversations (if you can call them that) can go down undisturbed. It'd be like the US Politics Megathread, except all about gay marriage.
Edited for clarity.
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On March 02 2013 06:40 FromShouri wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance. Coming from what I've seen in your posts I say the same to you, Pot calling kettle Black Not to mention his tone about someone daring to talk bad about his religion! I was forced to endure this shit all my life, constantly having to go to confession and reading the bible and bible camps and I can 100% tell you, they will never learn tolerance, we will have to force them too with laws.
You were forced to endure it sounds like you grew up in religion. So were you actually religious or did you never really believe any of it? As someone who used to think homosexuality was a sin, was super religious, and even went to Bible College intending to be a minister I can tell you from first hand experience that people can change.
I agree that we should just change the laws. Denying people happiness because it goes against a religious mandate that's two thousand years old is beyond silly. But just because you change the laws doesn't mean Christians are going to change their opinions on anything. Most Evangelicals still think abortion, alcoholism, and pre-marital sex are sins even though all of those are legal.
Finally, being a douche about their entire religion is pretty unfair. There are plenty of Christians who are okay with homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, and they believe in evolution. Those kinds of Christians don't try and put their religion into the public agenda.
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On March 02 2013 06:16 TheFear wrote:
With respect to the stoning of women, there is a very clear instance in the New Testament where Jesus defends a prostitute from being stoned. How can people use that as some sort of detriment to the Bible, when the focal point of all the gospels (the son of God) is clearly not an advocate of it. As a matter of fact, he told people (and I am paraphrasing): "Let he who is without sin (aka: nobody) cast the first stone."
Here is the story in it's entirety based on the Bible in John 8:2-11 (NKJV):
2 Now early[a] in the morning He came again into the temple, and all the people came to Him; and He sat down and taught them. 3 Then the scribes and Pharisees brought to Him a woman caught in adultery. And when they had set her in the midst, 4 they said to Him, “Teacher, this woman was caught[b] in adultery, in the very act. 5 Now Moses, in the law, commanded[c] us that such should be stoned.[d] But what do You say?”[e] 6 This they said, testing Him, that they might have something of which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger, as though He did not hear.[f]
7 So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up[g] and said to them, “He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.” 8 And again He stooped down and wrote on the ground. 9 Then those who heard it, being convicted by their conscience,[h] went out one by one, beginning with the oldest even to the last. And Jesus was left alone, and the woman standing in the midst. 10 When Jesus had raised Himself up and saw no one but the woman, He said to her,[i] “Woman, where are those accusers of yours?[j] Has no one condemned you?”
11 She said, “No one, Lord.”
And Jesus said to her, “Neither do I condemn you; go and[k] sin no more.”
Does this sound like a book that advocates the stoning of women? It doesn't to me, it's the exact opposite. Yet people insist on ignoring the holistic view of scripture and just focus with a skeptical perspective on the parts that suit their agenda.
- Victor N.
jesus wins this one on a technicality. condemning her requires two witnesses. Since jesus takes away their revenge by taking away their chance at first blood, they leave, and without witnesses she is not allowed to be stoned
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...focus with a skeptical perspective on the parts that suit their agenda.
A 1000x this. There is so much hatred and bigotry towards religion. Hatred and bigotry are the manifestation of ignorance on a subject that some have no desire to understand because its simply more convenient to ignore the truth while generalizing all religions and religious people.
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On March 02 2013 06:54 overt wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 06:40 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:32 dAPhREAk wrote:On March 02 2013 06:25 FromShouri wrote:On March 02 2013 06:21 TheFear wrote:On March 02 2013 06:14 Fake)Plants wrote:On March 02 2013 06:07 farvacola wrote:
TheFear, do you follow each book of the Old Testament with as much specificity as Genesis? Also, on what basis do you justify your denomination's reading of the Bible as "the right one"? I am genuinely curious. I know I sure do. Just this afternoon I sacrificed a lamb to the holy spirit because, of course, "without the shedding of blood, there is no remission of sins." So yeah gay marriage will hopefully pass us by as a legitimate issue in the United States in a few years. Obama might not be great but he has at least given me some hope that this conversation is ending soon. On to marijuana. After Jesus atoned for the sins of mankind by dying on a cross and shedding his innocent blood for us, this kind of sacrifice was no longer called for. To my knowledge it isn't an aspect of modern day Christian living. I would also appreciate it if you didn't take a sarcastic stab at something as to which the dynamics of you've probably made little to no effort to understand. I only assume this based on the erroneous and irreverent nature of your post. Thanks. - Victor N. Funny, you say "modern" day christian living, meaning religion has changed, think maybe it can change to iunno stop hating people for disagreeing with your shitty religion? See what I mean? You have every right to say hateful and hurtful things and your religion is using phrases like "destruction of humanity" "evil" "satan" to describe gay people. Yet when someone tells you how hateful and pathetic your religion is, you get defensive and say they have no right to say things like that. pot calls kettle black much? BTW- I didn't ask your made up prophet to die for me, practice your religion in your homes and in your churches but leave it out of our government and laws. i'm not religious, but you come off as quite the jerk in your post. if you want them to tolerate things that dont comport with their beliefs then maybe you should try to exercise some of the same tolerance. Coming from what I've seen in your posts I say the same to you, Pot calling kettle Black Not to mention his tone about someone daring to talk bad about his religion! I was forced to endure this shit all my life, constantly having to go to confession and reading the bible and bible camps and I can 100% tell you, they will never learn tolerance, we will have to force them too with laws. You were forced to endure it sounds like you grew up in religion. So were you actually religious or did you never really believe any of it? As someone who used to think homosexuality was a sin, was super religious, and even went to Bible College intending to be a minister I can tell you from first hand experience that people can change. I agree that we should just change the laws. Denying people happiness because it goes against a religious mandate that's two thousand years old is beyond silly. But just because you change the laws doesn't mean Christians are going to change their opinions on anything. Most Evangelicals still think abortion, alcoholism, and pre-marital sex are sins even though all of those are legal. Finally, being a douche about their entire religion is pretty unfair. There are plenty of Christians who are okay with homosexuality, gay marriage, abortion, and they believe in evolution. Those kinds of Christians don't try and put their religion into the public agenda.
This guys is talking some sense, listen to him. I also come from a Christian background and believed it all for 10+ years until college. In the end it was evolution that changed my beliefs. I totally agree with this change in laws. Christians can still have their marriage as written in the bible and have their right to ban homosexuals from getting married in their own Church, but they should definitely be allowed to be married under state law. Obama probably always planned to do this but had to wait until the 2nd presidency to pass something that is probably gonna be pretty controversial in the US for a while. Ultimately though it will be a great step forward in tolerance for America.
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On March 01 2013 14:29 aTnClouD wrote:
Huge bigot religious drama shitfest inc
Let me try to interpret this.
It's not alright when religious people believe that homosexual partners should not be able to marry because they believe it is wrong and therefore voice their opinion.
It is alright when people believe that homosexual partners should be able to marry because they believe it is okay and therefore voice their opinion.
Is that a fair assessment?
Correct me where I'm wrong.
I'm not trying to be rude, this is just what it seems like to me and so figure I'm missing something.
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On March 02 2013 07:12 danl9rm wrote:Show nested quote +On March 01 2013 14:29 aTnClouD wrote:
Huge bigot religious drama shitfest inc Let me try to interpret this. It's not alright when religious people believe that homosexual partners should not be able to marry because they believe it is wrong and therefore voice their opinion. It is alright when people believe that homosexual partners should be able to marry because they believe it is okay and therefore voice their opinion. Is that a fair assessment? Correct me where I'm wrong. I'm not trying to be rude, this is just what it seems like to me and so figure I'm missing something.
Why do you think you're missing something? Seems pretty bang on to me. At least when it's in regards to making law and not simply a matter of personal preference.
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On March 02 2013 07:04 Joedaddy wrote:A 1000x this. There is so much hatred and bigotry towards religion. Hatred and bigotry are the manifestation of ignorance on a subject that some have no desire to understand because its simply more convenient to ignore the truth while generalizing all religions and religious people.
You know that this works also the other way around, right?
Do me a favor, explain to me reasonable, why so many people hate on islam and christians (you see, its not hatred or bigotry towards religion in general, but towards these two religions) - and near to none (i NEVER saw someone doing it) towards for example buddhists?
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On March 02 2013 07:20 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 07:04 Joedaddy wrote:...focus with a skeptical perspective on the parts that suit their agenda. A 1000x this. There is so much hatred and bigotry towards religion. Hatred and bigotry are the manifestation of ignorance on a subject that some have no desire to understand because its simply more convenient to ignore the truth while generalizing all religions and religious people. You know that this works also the other way around, right? Do me a favor, explain to me reasonable, why so many people hate on islam and christians (you see, its not hatred or bigotry towards religion in general, but towards these two religions) - and near to none (i NEVER saw someone doing it) towards for example buddhists?
same stuff against buddhists, but they don't make up the majority of america/europe or have a huge effect on policies
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On March 02 2013 07:20 m4inbrain wrote:Show nested quote +On March 02 2013 07:04 Joedaddy wrote:...focus with a skeptical perspective on the parts that suit their agenda. A 1000x this. There is so much hatred and bigotry towards religion. Hatred and bigotry are the manifestation of ignorance on a subject that some have no desire to understand because its simply more convenient to ignore the truth while generalizing all religions and religious people. You know that this works also the other way around, right? Do me a favor, explain to me reasonable, why so many people hate on islam and christians (you see, its not hatred or bigotry towards religion in general, but towards these two religions) - and near to none (i NEVER saw someone doing it) towards for example buddhists?
this actually got me curious what their beliefs are. from wiki:
Some later traditions do feature sanction of homosexual contact. However, some, including the current Dalai Lama, uphold that any form of sexual expression other than monogamous vaginal sex within a heterosexual relationship violates the Third Precept of Buddhism.
regardless, i think people hate on buddhism less because they are less familiar with it. this is a forum occupied mostly by westerners who have more experience with christianity/islam and most likely little experience with buddhism or other eastern religions.
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