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That is not how most of this works. In general, the cop was against a known gang member, who was drunk.
Cuevas's blood tested positive for meth and marijuana, but I don't see any mention of alcohol. Also, the only mention of anything gang-related is of Ernie Ray Campos flashing gang signs in the street. Campos later stated that he did not know Cuevas. Note that Cuevas was not the one who attracted Jove's attention in the first place.
Since he was latino in LA, we can reasonably believe that drugs may have been involved (most latino gangs deal in drugs from other latino countries as distributors) and to top that off, he was armed and dangerous.
This is not a reasonable conclusion at all. Racial profiling may have its uses in some circumstances, but it certainly shouldn't have played a role in Jove's decision to use lethal force.
We can argue about the execution shots, but to be honest here, this guy wasn't a stand up dude or even a guy who was innocent of breaking the law (he was already carrying a concealed weapon + public drunkenness/indecency) and the policeman cannot be expected to not act in a human manner to protect his own life.
Carrying a concealed weapon does not warrant capital punishment in USA. The first three shots fired by Deputy Jove might be justified as self defence, but the last three? While standing over an already fatally wounded Cuevas, bleeding out on the pavement?
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On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does.
You should really be careful with statements like this. The problem with people talking about "America" is that we are effectively 50 different little countries (plus one territory) all with our own idiosyncrasies. We have people who are more politically liberal and in line with actual world progress on civil issues, and we have people who are stuck ideologically in the 19th century. The beauty of the U.S. system is that change can happen from the ground up. If California legalizes something, the federal government won't mess it up unless it's considered unconstitutional.
And state politics arise from local and regional politics, where urban centers tend to have more political influence. The problems with American politics are the same as the problems with politics everywhere -- the power of power. Corruption for fiscal, influential, and other reasons are existent all over the world, and the U.S. is no different. But you can still find a reasonable person, provide a reasonable statement about why something should be done, and get it done, on the local level. Getting everyone else in the country to think the same way that you do is the hard part, and even if you do that you have to deal with inflated minorities based on who gives a damn about voting.
Very few people vote for the most significant political positions for them, their local offices. And then they complain when state politicians are supported by the local ones, who may not represent their district''s actual interests.
tl;dr There are intelligent people everywhere, and unintelligent people, too. The USA is an incredibly diverse country and one of the few on Earth where you can truly achieve greatness exclusively by your own hand, and influence those around you in a positive manner (if you so choose) while doing it. But mediocrity is not rewarded, and those in power will retain their power so long as nobody does anything about it Regardless of how much they do or do not deserve it.
AND:
Same-sex marriage in Vermont began on September 1, 2009. Vermont was the first state to introduce civil unions in July 2000, and the first state to introduce same-sex marriage by enacting a statute without being required to do so by a court decision.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Same-sex_marriage_in_Vermont
On 18 November 2004 the United Kingdom Parliament passed the Civil Partnership Act, which came into force in December 2005 and allows same-sex couples in England and Wales to register their partnership. The government stressed during the passage of the bill that it is not same-sex marriage, and some same-sex rights activists have criticized the act for not using the terminology of marriage. However, the rights and duties of partners under this legislation are exactly the same as for married couples. An amendment proposing similar rights for family members living together was rejected. The press is widely referring to these unions as "gay marriage.".[32] A bill allowing same-sex marriage is currently before Parliament, having passed its second reading on 5 February 2013.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Status_of_same-sex_marriage#United_Kingdom
Straight from Wikipedia. I lived there when it happened. Take that, slow as hell UK legislators for taking so long to give gays the right to marry. You're about 4 years late.
+ Show Spoiler +
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EDIT: on topic
I watched the video. Looks like a gangbanger getting shot because he ran, maybe he had a gun, if he did I understand the cop's actions. With one exception. The initial shots are perfectly logical, the shots over the man who is on the ground and unmoving are just execution shots. The officer probably has ties to someone who wanted a message sent or that gang shut down. LAPD is just a gang that happens to do good for the most part, though obviously there are many well-intentioned officers within the force.
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United States42983 Posts
On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway.
NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people.
You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does.
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On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does.
And our prison system is retarded because it forces people back into the system instead of rehabilitating them. But prison policy isn't gonna change for a long time. In the mean time, decriminalizing marijuana will stop a portion of the next generation of prison inmates from going down that road, and hopefully minor reforms will stack up until you don't have cases of people going to jail for a stupid decision and then becoming full on drug addicts and felons later on down the road because of the people they met and experiences they had.
But our prison system engendering bad stuff doesn't mean we're preventing people from moving around, doing what they want (within reason in a civilized world) and giving them the freedom to leave if they don't like it here.
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NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people.
You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does.
You have a fair point about the ridiculous incarceration rate for USA, but at the very least, can we just agree that the prison situation in America is not as bad as it is in North Korea? First, like you say, there aren't any exact numbers for their prisons. Not to mention concentration camps for political dissidents and their families. And no, you don't need a certain level of prosperity to put people in prison. You just need a certain level of prosperity to put people in prison and keep them alive, something that the North Koreans don't really put much effort into.
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United States42983 Posts
Still, returning to my initial point. Dismissing any criticism from Europeans about the US with "jealous of our freedoms. USA! USA! USA!" is pretty retarded, the United States is certainly a good country in many ways but it is certainly not the most free and there is certainly not any great jealousy towards it.
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Hey now Kwark, we're 'free' from the tyranny of same sex marriage. Or at least that's what half of our government is telling us (until the rest of the old people die off.)
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On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does.
Pretty naive to compare plain numbers between the U.S (314million people according to the 2012 census). and the U.K. (64 million according to the World Bank in 2011). If you're going to take time out of your day to take a dump on how America does business, then you should at least use meaningful data. I'm curious what the violent crime rate per capita is between the two in addition to the incarceration rate per capita.
Here is one article from 2009 that claims:
Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa.
Thoughts? Sounds to me that, per capita, you're social experiments aren't as successful as you make them out to be.
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On February 18 2013 15:44 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does. Pretty naive to compare plain numbers between the U.S (314million people according to the 2012 census). and the U.K. (64 million according to the World Bank in 2011). If you're going to take time out of your day to take a dump on how America does business, then you should at least use meaningful data. I'm curious what the violent crime rate per capita is between the two in addition to the incarceration rate per capita. Here is one article from 2009 that claims: Show nested quote +Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Thoughts? Sounds to me that, per capita, you're social experiments aren't as successful as you make them out to be.
You honestly think Kwark is comparing raw numbers and not percentages? If you know anything about how bad our country's prison problem is you would know he would HAVE to be talking about percentages. Plus Kwark usually puts together quality posts, even if people don't always agree with them.
Edit: We almost have as many kids in juvenile detention as they have inmates in prison.
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On February 18 2013 16:00 Saryph wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 15:44 Joedaddy wrote:On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does. Pretty naive to compare plain numbers between the U.S (314million people according to the 2012 census). and the U.K. (64 million according to the World Bank in 2011). If you're going to take time out of your day to take a dump on how America does business, then you should at least use meaningful data. I'm curious what the violent crime rate per capita is between the two in addition to the incarceration rate per capita. Here is one article from 2009 that claims: Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Thoughts? Sounds to me that, per capita, you're social experiments aren't as successful as you make them out to be. You honestly think Kwark is comparing raw numbers and not percentages? If you know anything about how bad our country's prison problem is you would know he would HAVE to be talking about percentages. Plus Kwark usually puts together quality posts, even if people don't always agree with them. Edit: We almost have as many kids in juvenile detention as they have inmates in prison.
Here is another interesting stat I found on per capita crime rates:
“In the UK, there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people, the rate in the U.S. is 466 per 100,000 residents)."
I also lol'd at how quickly you assume the infallibility of someone on the internet when so many assume guilt when law enforcement is involved.
One more: Total Crime Victims
U.K. = 26.4% (25% more than the United States) U.S. = 21.1%
People victimized by crime (as a % of the total population). Data refer to people victimized by one or more of 11 crimes recorded in the survey: robbery, burglary, attempted burglary, car theft, car vandalism, bicycle theft, sexual assault, theft from car, theft of personal property, assault and threats.
I found it interesting.
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United States42983 Posts
On February 18 2013 15:44 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does. Pretty naive to compare plain numbers between the U.S (314million people according to the 2012 census). and the U.K. (64 million according to the World Bank in 2011). If you're going to take time out of your day to take a dump on how America does business, then you should at least use meaningful data. I'm curious what the violent crime rate per capita is between the two in addition to the incarceration rate per capita. Here is one article from 2009 that claims: Show nested quote +Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Thoughts? Sounds to me that, per capita, you're social experiments aren't as successful as you make them out to be.
500% of what we do per capita obviously.
I mean jesus, do you think I'm not aware that the US has more people? Obviously I compared them per capita for the numbers to have meaning. Did you even check to see if it was per capita before you took the stupidest possible interpretation of my post and responded to it? If you'd checked the numbers yourself you'd have seen that you have 500% what we have (750ish per 100k vs 150ish per 100k) and therefore I couldn't possibly mean per capita. Do some research before you go "lol, but US has more people, dumbass". In pure numbers you imprison 25x what we do but that's a meaningless comparison unless you compensate for population which I already did for you so you wouldn't be so easily confused.
-_-
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United States42983 Posts
On February 18 2013 16:06 Joedaddy wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 16:00 Saryph wrote:On February 18 2013 15:44 Joedaddy wrote:On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does. Pretty naive to compare plain numbers between the U.S (314million people according to the 2012 census). and the U.K. (64 million according to the World Bank in 2011). If you're going to take time out of your day to take a dump on how America does business, then you should at least use meaningful data. I'm curious what the violent crime rate per capita is between the two in addition to the incarceration rate per capita. Here is one article from 2009 that claims: Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Thoughts? Sounds to me that, per capita, you're social experiments aren't as successful as you make them out to be. You honestly think Kwark is comparing raw numbers and not percentages? If you know anything about how bad our country's prison problem is you would know he would HAVE to be talking about percentages. Plus Kwark usually puts together quality posts, even if people don't always agree with them. Edit: We almost have as many kids in juvenile detention as they have inmates in prison. Here is another interesting stat I found on per capita crime rates: Show nested quote +“In the UK, there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people, the rate in the U.S. is 466 per 100,000 residents)." I also lol'd at how quickly you assume the infallibility of someone on the internet when so many assume guilt when law enforcement is involved.
He didn't say someone, he specifically named me as a quality poster who would not compare numbers without context. You should actually read the post you're responding to before you make random assertions that in no way relate to it.
Violent crimes are defined differently in different countries, it is the one of the stupidest mistakes imaginable to look at two numbers collected in completely different ways and attempt a direct comparison and then imagine you've proved a point. This is what you've done. "Violent crime" had a massive statistical jump under Labour when they broadened the definition of it, furthermore rates of reporting crime to the police have gone up while the people themselves report suffering less crime than at any time before. My comparison was of an absolute, number of incarcerated people, and was made per capita so it was theoretically idiotproof although somehow not youproof. Your number is meaningless because it was of a subjectively defined and differently counted statistic so you can write per capita as much as you like but it still doesn't mean shit.
You really need to learn to read and learn to numbers.
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Some of the freedom assessments from multiple organization, although US scored quite high, but fails to achieve the level of Australia, Canada, New Zealand and Switzerland.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_freedom_indices
However even as a NZ citizen, i always feel there are room for improvement. When some people criticise your country, don't blindy defend it, instead you should acknowledge some valid points, and push to improve it! 
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On February 18 2013 16:15 KwarK wrote:Show nested quote +On February 18 2013 16:06 Joedaddy wrote:On February 18 2013 16:00 Saryph wrote:On February 18 2013 15:44 Joedaddy wrote:On February 18 2013 14:57 KwarK wrote:On February 18 2013 14:49 Windd wrote:On February 18 2013 14:37 KwarK wrote:
Er, no. The rest of the world doesn't think America has issues because we're all jealous of how much liberty you have. Your prison population is by far the highest in the world and you're the last and most reluctant to give any ground in civil liberties. Imperial Russia abolished serfdom before you guys got rid of slavery, the UK (probably your closest ideological neighbour) just legalised gay marriage before you guys even have civil partnerships on the table. Burying your head in the sand and just insisting everyone else is jealous of how awesome America is willful ignorance. Your people certainly aren't the most free, your government is one of the least transparent and no state has ever denied the freedom of more of its population than the US does. I agree/am OK with everything except for the bolded stuff. Just because we have some problems and aren't up to the current standards does not make us the state that has denied the freedom of move of its population. WTF, North Korea at least. Complete overboard claim anyway. NK's prison population is smaller than that of the United States. Sorry. Well, we don't have exact numbers because NK, but they couldn't afford to imprison as many people as you guys do. You need a certain level of prosperity before you can commit that amount of resources to denying the freedom of your people. You guys imprison 150% of what Russia does and 500% of what the UK does. Pretty naive to compare plain numbers between the U.S (314million people according to the 2012 census). and the U.K. (64 million according to the World Bank in 2011). If you're going to take time out of your day to take a dump on how America does business, then you should at least use meaningful data. I'm curious what the violent crime rate per capita is between the two in addition to the incarceration rate per capita. Here is one article from 2009 that claims: Analysis of figures from the European Commission showed a 77 per cent increase in murders, robberies, assaults and sexual offences in the UK since Labour came to power.
The total number of violent offences recorded compared to population is higher than any other country in Europe, as well as America, Canada, Australia and South Africa. Thoughts? Sounds to me that, per capita, you're social experiments aren't as successful as you make them out to be. You honestly think Kwark is comparing raw numbers and not percentages? If you know anything about how bad our country's prison problem is you would know he would HAVE to be talking about percentages. Plus Kwark usually puts together quality posts, even if people don't always agree with them. Edit: We almost have as many kids in juvenile detention as they have inmates in prison. Here is another interesting stat I found on per capita crime rates: “In the UK, there are 2,034 violent crimes per 100,000 people, the rate in the U.S. is 466 per 100,000 residents)." I also lol'd at how quickly you assume the infallibility of someone on the internet when so many assume guilt when law enforcement is involved. He didn't say someone, he specifically named me as a quality poster who would not compare numbers without context. You should actually read the post you're responding to before you make random assertions that in no way relate to it. Violent crimes are defined differently in different countries, it is the one of the stupidest mistakes imaginable to look at two numbers collected in completely different ways and attempt a direct comparison and then imagine you've proved a point. This is what you've done. "Violent crime" had a massive statistical jump under Labour when they broadened the definition of it, furthermore rates of reporting crime to the police have gone up while the people themselves report suffering less crime than at any time before. My comparison was of an absolute, number of incarcerated people, and was made per capita so it was theoretically idiotproof although somehow not youproof. Your number is meaningless because it was of a subjectively defined and differently counted statistic so you can write per capita as much as you like but it still doesn't mean shit. You really need to learn to read and learn to numbers.
The FBI's uniform Crime Report defines a violent crime as 1 of 4 offenses: Murder/Manslaughter, Forcible Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault.
The British home office has a different definition of violent crime, obviously (good point btw). The definition includes all "crimes against a person," including simple assaults, robberies, and all 'sexual offenses.'
Comparing just those 4 areas (trying to do apples to apples here):
The U.S. had 403 incidents per 100,000 people. (2010)
The U.K. had 776 incidents per 100,000 people. (2010)
You're a smart guy Kwark, a lot smarter than I am for sure. Maybe the U.K. has a different definition for Murder/Manslaughter, Forcible Rape, Robbery, Aggravated Assault? I'm just seeing a whole lot of numbers indicating that most of the stuff you say is only half the story.
Edit: Also, on the incarceration rate. I was under the impression that drug offenses account for a huge percentage of the incarcerated individuals. It was also my impression that the U.S. is a lot stricter on drugs than most countries. I mean, if this is the case then you could argue that the U.S. is less free because the put more people in jail for drug offenses. But, is it really fair to compare incarceration rates when the sides aren't playing by the same set of rules regarding such things?
![[image loading]](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e2/US_incarceration_rate_timeline.gif/300px-US_incarceration_rate_timeline.gif)
Seems pretty obvious that the incarceration rate is directly related to the "war on drugs." I'm personally not willing to accept your story that we are somehow less free because of a stricter stance on drugs.
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United States42983 Posts
You're looking at this in a binary fashion rather than as a scale. You've turned it into "do you think there should be a legal consequence of drug use, if so then there is nothing wrong with the US stance". That's not how you measure whether it is justifiable to strip people of their liberty, there has to be proportionality involved for it to be just. Do you think the US response to soft drugs is proportional to the damage they do to society and if not then how can you define the response as anything other than an attack on the freedom to do what you want to your own body? A free society does not win when a kid is locked up for life for possession of a little weed while on probation.
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EPT
