|
Alright, enough religious debate. If you want to talk about Pope Benedict and what he specifically did or didn't do, go ahead. But no more general discussion on the merits or ills of the Catholic church or their history.
-page 12 |
On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to
Seriously, now you're just being silly. A lot of Germans were members of the Nazi party because they agreed with its "ideals" and it provided them with benefits. The majority of the German society supported Hitler.
|
I was half expecting him to be mired in some sort of scandal. I hope this results in the Catholic church advancing from the dark ages...
|
maybe they should consider hiring a pope thats not 100 years old for once
|
On February 12 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to Seriously, now you're just being silly. A lot of Germans were members of the Nazi party because they agreed with its "ideals" and it provided them with benefits. The majority of the German society supported Hitler.
It's generally agreed that he didn't really want to, and wasn't enthusiastic in his tenure there.
Following his 14th birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was conscripted into the Hitler Youth—as membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939[13]—but was an unenthusiastic member who refused to attend meetings, according to his brother.[14] In 1941, one of Ratzinger's cousins, a 14-year-old boy with Down syndrome, was taken away by the Nazi regime and murdered during the Action T4 campaign of Nazi eugenics.[15] In 1943, while still in seminary, he was drafted into the German anti-aircraft corps as Luftwaffenhelfer (air force child soldier).[14] Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry.[16] As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he deserted back to his family's home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist, just as American troops established their headquarters in the Ratzinger household.[17] As a German soldier, he was put in a POW camp but was released a few months later at the end of the war in the summer of 1945.[17] He reentered the seminary, along with his brother Georg, in November of that year.
Wikipedia
|
On February 12 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to Seriously, now you're just being silly. A lot of Germans were members of the Nazi party because they agreed with its "ideals" and it provided them with benefits. The majority of the German society supported Hitler.
This is factually false.
Hitler never got a majority in parliament(at most 40%~ might have been closer to 45%) and mostly bullied Germans into line when he was in power, do not make untrue comments that other could take offence to please (i don't but a lot of others could)
|
On February 12 2013 05:55 IceCube wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:46 Tula wrote:On February 12 2013 05:37 IceCube wrote:On February 12 2013 05:26 farvacola wrote:On February 12 2013 05:25 IceCube wrote:
For me his move is a sign of weakness. Any leader Christian or not after abandoning his post is found either weak or not worthy at the first place.
I'm a Christian and I do believe in God and this is my honest opinion of the matter at hand. That's the entire point.......Benedict considered himself too weak to maintain his position as head of the Church, therefore he stepped down. He is 85 ya know. You are right and that's the whole point, but what I meant was that he should set an example in his faith to all of us, the followers, in my eyes that's one of the main quests for a good leader. So now when we are in a hard spot (old, depressed, hungry...whatever, should we all just quit?) Errrrrrr what? Seriously? We just (as in not 10 years ago) had a pope who literally could do nothing in the last 2 years of his reign and you want to go back to that?Frankly it is a sign of moral fiber to recognise that it is time to take a step back and let someone else lead. No other institution in the world expects their heads (not even a figurehead, but the person who is supposed to be in control) to serve on their deathbed. Yes one of his tasks is to set a good example for the believers of his faith. Where I disagree completely with what you have said is that he is "just" quitting. He served for 7 years at an age where almost everyone else just wants to sit back and spend time with their grandchildren. Frankly that must be enough. You said it yourself right there. He was dying and he still stood at the head of Christian Church, giving his last breath for what he stood for and showed true example of a great believer and faith in our Lord. I'm guessing he also knew what was going to happen to him and he could have chosen easier path and just live the last days with his family or the closest ones but he didn't. He died gracefully in his faith and didn't broke 600 years old tradition of ones before him.
But... he wasn't "standing at the head" of the church. He was effectively removed from office (not entirely, but to a large degree) and unable to fully fulfill the duties of his position.
This has nothing to do with his degree of faith or devotion, it's a simple recognition of no longer being fully able to perform his duties as pope. I had a difficult time grasping the idea that having a decrepit "leader" that can't actually do the job is a good thing.
|
On February 12 2013 05:24 farvacola wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:23 derpface wrote:
And in the end, nothing of value is lost. And with this post, nothing of value is gained.
Well I guess you are right since its the shared opinion of almost everyone else.
|
On February 12 2013 06:16 Dranak wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:55 IceCube wrote:On February 12 2013 05:46 Tula wrote:On February 12 2013 05:37 IceCube wrote:On February 12 2013 05:26 farvacola wrote:On February 12 2013 05:25 IceCube wrote:
For me his move is a sign of weakness. Any leader Christian or not after abandoning his post is found either weak or not worthy at the first place.
I'm a Christian and I do believe in God and this is my honest opinion of the matter at hand. That's the entire point.......Benedict considered himself too weak to maintain his position as head of the Church, therefore he stepped down. He is 85 ya know. You are right and that's the whole point, but what I meant was that he should set an example in his faith to all of us, the followers, in my eyes that's one of the main quests for a good leader. So now when we are in a hard spot (old, depressed, hungry...whatever, should we all just quit?) Errrrrrr what? Seriously? We just (as in not 10 years ago) had a pope who literally could do nothing in the last 2 years of his reign and you want to go back to that?Frankly it is a sign of moral fiber to recognise that it is time to take a step back and let someone else lead. No other institution in the world expects their heads (not even a figurehead, but the person who is supposed to be in control) to serve on their deathbed. Yes one of his tasks is to set a good example for the believers of his faith. Where I disagree completely with what you have said is that he is "just" quitting. He served for 7 years at an age where almost everyone else just wants to sit back and spend time with their grandchildren. Frankly that must be enough. You said it yourself right there. He was dying and he still stood at the head of Christian Church, giving his last breath for what he stood for and showed true example of a great believer and faith in our Lord. I'm guessing he also knew what was going to happen to him and he could have chosen easier path and just live the last days with his family or the closest ones but he didn't. He died gracefully in his faith and didn't broke 600 years old tradition of ones before him. But... he wasn't "standing at the head" of the church. He was effectively removed from office (not entirely, but to a large degree) and unable to fully fulfill the duties of his position. This has nothing to do with his degree of faith or devotion, it's a simple recognition of no longer being fully able to perform his duties as pope. I had a difficult time grasping the idea that having a decrepit "leader" that can't actually do the job is a good thing.
Agreed. Such leaders is how the Soviet Union (almost) fell apart as well, although huge amounts of reform in short amounts of time is what dealt the killing blow.
So maybe a moderate pope is what we should be looking for.
|
60% of the world's Catholics reside in North and South America, and most of the 'growth' in new converts is happening in the Third World. It would make more sense to get a pontiff from one of those two regions, as opposed to yet another European Pope.
|
On February 12 2013 06:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
It's generally agreed that he didn't really want to, and wasn't enthusiastic in his tenure there.
I wasn't getting at the Pope's background at all. 
On February 12 2013 06:15 SCkad wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to Seriously, now you're just being silly. A lot of Germans were members of the Nazi party because they agreed with its "ideals" and it provided them with benefits. The majority of the German society supported Hitler. This is factually false. Hitler never got a majority in parliament(at most 40%~ might have been closer to 45%) and mostly bullied Germans into line when he was in power, do not make untrue comments that other could take offence to please (i don't but a lot of others could)
You're implying that the number of his supporters after he took over the country did not grow. This is factually false. He was emanating power, he made Germany raise from the knees after the Treaty of Versailles, that they felt had humiliated them. He rebuilt the country, lowered the unemployment rate, improved the industry, and so on. You should watch some documentaries or read history books. Germans did love him, certainly the majority did.
|
The numbers are still skewed since the Germans that didn't for whatever reason, were probably shot, silenced in some way, or just not shown in public broadcastings.
"membership was required by law for all 14-year-old German boys after December 1939" from that Wikipedia article on the pope. I'm not arguing that Hitler wasn't popular or people didn't believe him and his ideology, but the numbers do have the possibility of favoring Hitler too much, and the whole point of the Hitler Youth was to actually indoctrinate the children, no matter what their beliefs were before that point.
|
On February 12 2013 06:22 maybenexttime wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 06:13 [UoN]Sentinel wrote:
It's generally agreed that he didn't really want to, and wasn't enthusiastic in his tenure there.
I wasn't getting at the Pope's background at all. Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 06:15 SCkad wrote:On February 12 2013 06:09 maybenexttime wrote:On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to Seriously, now you're just being silly. A lot of Germans were members of the Nazi party because they agreed with its "ideals" and it provided them with benefits. The majority of the German society supported Hitler. This is factually false. Hitler never got a majority in parliament(at most 40%~ might have been closer to 45%) and mostly bullied Germans into line when he was in power, do not make untrue comments that other could take offence to please (i don't but a lot of others could) You're implying that the number of his supporters after he took over the country did not grow. This is factually false. He was emanating power, he made Germany raise from the knees after the Treaty of Versailles, that they felt had humiliated them. He rebuilt the country, lowered the unemployment rate, improved the industry, and so on. You should watch some documentaries or read history books. Germans did love him, certainly the majority did.
So you should have defined the year/era of which you spoke. You're kinda both right I guess. I think numbers and enthusiasm definitely grew from 1933 to 1939, but you have to consider that until he got the power, most people in germany were against him. Even at the edge of war, some people were against him but had to remain silent or had just left the country before(if they were able to).
|
I don't know where in Christianity's doctrine a title like the pope is given.No where in reading the bible have I ever come across, titles like priest and pope. As a theist IMO these guys need to get real jobs. And stop feeding themselves off people's beliefs.
|
On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to
I'm just saying if you are looking for a figure head for your organization and one of your principle goals is to indoctrinate as many people around the world (in fact they want EVERYONE to be catholic) as possible, then someone with a history in the Hilter Youth, BY CHOICE OR FORCED, isn't exactly your best bet. I'm sorry if it was completely out of his control, but the fact still stands that he was a member.
|
On February 12 2013 06:35 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to I'm just saying if you are looking for a figure head for your organization and one of your principle goals is to indoctrinate as many people around the world (in fact they want EVERYONE to be catholic) as possible, then someone with a history in the Hilter Youth, BY CHOICE OR FORCED, isn't exactly your best bet. I'm sorry if it was completely out of his control, but the fact still stands that he was a member.
His unique history in the Hitler Youth actually paints him as a pacifist who reluctantly served so he wouldn't be shot or imprisoned, and the fact that he went back to church right after he got released from the POW camp adds to it immensely.
On February 12 2013 06:35 KingAce wrote:
I don't know where in Christianity's doctrine a title like the pope is given.No where in reading the bible have I ever come across, titles like priest and pope. As a theist IMO these guys need to get real jobs. And stop feeding themselves off people's beliefs.
The Pope thing got kinda out of hand between St. Peter and the split between Catholicism and Orthodoxy in those thousand years. Matthew 16:19 "And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven." I think the papacy took this command a bit too far around the 1000s, which made it seem like the Pope was the arbiter of everyone on Earth and God manifested all his power to him.
Although the only real pay that the pope receives is his living place in the Vatican, food, medical care, clothes, and other necessities like that. Kings and other heads of state get luxuries and plenty of money to spend; the Pope doesn't. Given that he works seven days a week for long hours and the average pope dies in six years from all the stress of the job, I don't think any old bishop would do it just for the power.
|
When Pope Benedict was elected I think it was a shock to a lot of progressive Catholic youths like myself because Pope John Paul the second was such an amazingly progressive figure. If the 70s could bring about the first Polish pope who also has the most progressive views on sin and sinners the church has ever seen then surely we can do better in the 2000s right?
Basically all i remember hearing from Benedict's reign was consistent doubling down on doctrine, the divisive nature of which no doubt making an already difficult job near unbearable.
I agree with the man on basically nothing but I respect the gravity of his role as vicar of Christ. I look forward to what a younger perspective could offer the office.
|
On February 12 2013 06:35 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to I'm just saying if you are looking for a figure head for your organization and one of your principle goals is to indoctrinate as many people around the world (in fact they want EVERYONE to be catholic) as possible, then someone with a history in the Hilter Youth, BY CHOICE OR FORCED, isn't exactly your best bet. I'm sorry if it was completely out of his control, but the fact still stands that he was a member.
He was not given a joice and he was 14. 14 is too young to hold something like that against him.
|
On February 12 2013 06:35 KingAce wrote:
I don't know where in Christianity's doctrine a title like the pope is given.No where in reading the bible have I ever come across, titles like priest and pope. As a theist IMO these guys need to get real jobs. And stop feeding themselves off people's beliefs.
Pope just comes from the Greek word for Father. So it's just a familiar or kind name given to him. His official titles are Bishop of Rome, Vicar of Christ, etc.
Next, the Old Testament has priests all over the place. From Melchizedek to the Levite priests. If there are priests in the old covenant then there are priests in the new. Hebrews 7 talks extensively about priesthood and there are many more references.
You have not read Scripture very well.
|
On February 12 2013 06:35 SupLilSon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to I'm just saying if you are looking for a figure head for your organization and one of your principle goals is to indoctrinate as many people around the world (in fact they want EVERYONE to be catholic) as possible, then someone with a history in the Hilter Youth, BY CHOICE OR FORCED, isn't exactly your best bet. I'm sorry if it was completely out of his control, but the fact still stands that he was a member.
You are beating a dead horse into the ground. As has already been quoted he did not have a choice regarding the Hitler Youth. Far more relevant is what he did as a person during the last 60 years. Personally i disagree with quite a few things he did, said or thought and blame him for quite a few problems the catholic church has, but in no way shape or form do I think he has anything to do with facist or NS ideology.
Frankly give up this idiotic argument and attack him for his policies if you must, but as numerous other people have said, if you were 14 years or older you had absolutly no choice in the Third Reich. If he had been a few years older he would have had to join the military as well and i wouldn't blame him for that either.
(Personal note, my grandfather who was jewish had to join the hitler Youth for 2 years before he got deported in 1943, hopefully you will now understand why i find your position idiotic at best, if not outright offensive).
|
On February 12 2013 06:44 Tula wrote:Show nested quote +On February 12 2013 06:35 SupLilSon wrote:On February 12 2013 05:18 Grovbolle wrote:On February 12 2013 02:49 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 23:21 shadymmj wrote:On February 11 2013 23:19 SupLilSon wrote:On February 11 2013 22:45 scFoX wrote:
I'm sad to see him go. Contrary to what many atheists are saying in this thread, he is one of the most learned and profound people I've ever seen. Sure, he's not as glamorous as John Paul II, but he makes it up in brain power. I hope stepping down from office will improve his health. Really? Wasn't this Pope a former Hitler Youth? He also said some pretty ignorant stuff throughout his course as Pope imo. As a non-Christian, John Paul seemed like a much more attractive Pope than Benedict and actually demanded some respect because of this demeanor, words and actions.. yeah because the alternative to joining the hitler jugen was...? Maybe it wasn't his own volition which made him join. But still, as a non-Christian I thought that John Paul was an amazing representative for the Vatican and even if you disagreed with almost everything the Church stands for he was still an incredibly likable and charismatic individual. My opinion is simply that the Pope isnt really renowned for "brain power". He's a figure head, he's a symbol, a political item, not a thinker. It doesnt really matter if it was his choice or not, the fact is he was a Hitler Youth. Please try to not make it sound like being a Hitler-Youth = Evil person. A lot of Germans were members of the nazi party as well because you kind of had to I'm just saying if you are looking for a figure head for your organization and one of your principle goals is to indoctrinate as many people around the world (in fact they want EVERYONE to be catholic) as possible, then someone with a history in the Hilter Youth, BY CHOICE OR FORCED, isn't exactly your best bet. I'm sorry if it was completely out of his control, but the fact still stands that he was a member. You are beating a dead horse into the ground. As has already been quoted he did not have a choice regarding the Hitler Youth. Far more relevant is what he did as a person during the last 60 years. Personally i disagree with quite a few things he did, said or thought and blame him for quite a few problems the catholic church has, but in no way shape or form do I think he has anything to do with facist or NS ideology. Frankly give up this idiotic argument and attack him for his policies if you must, but as numerous other people have said, if you were 14 years or older you had absolutly no choice in the Third Reich. If he had been a few years older he would have had to join the military as well and i wouldn't blame him for that either. (Personal note, my grandfather who was jewish had to join the hitler Youth for 2 years before he got deported in 1943, hopefully you will now understand why i find your position idiotic at best, if not outright offensive).
Actually according to wikipedia he had to join the army a few month before Hitler died and deserted after Hitlers death.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
